Cleaning House

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Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 12 Sep 2008 - 1:16

The Wikipedia article on Gunslinger Girl's characters is a complete mess, even for Wikipedia - it is not up-to-date, and riddled with both pointless information and unverified claims. So here I am, calling upon all members of this forum with Wikipedia accounts to help tidy it up.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by KodokuRyuu on Wed 24 Sep 2008 - 0:43

Articles:

Let me know if you need any help - I'm fairly well known in the Anime and manga WikiProject and I've been working on the GSG articles for over a year (not that I've done that much with them yet). I'm also very familiar with Wikicode for those who need help with that.


Last edited by KodokuRyuu on Sat 27 Sep 2008 - 20:29; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Articles merged)
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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 24 Sep 2008 - 0:47

Everything is fine, apart from the second item. I'll be posting a list of corrections soon.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Thu 25 Sep 2008 - 23:29

Okay, I'll kick-off.

No evidence exists in the canon that Henrietta and Rico's names are derived from Enrica's.

Neither does any exist that Angie's father personally did the whole accident thing.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Triela on Thu 25 Sep 2008 - 23:48

Nachtsider wrote:
Neither does any exist that Angie's father personally did the whole accident thing.

It was her father. Who would hire someone to kill their own daughter when he could just do it himself? It is Angelica's father, and that's what makes it even more twisted an disgusting.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 25 Sep 2008 - 23:56

Nachtsider wrote:No evidence exists in the canon...that Angie's father personally did the whole accident thing.

I know better then to second-guess your knowledge of GSG, so even though I could swear, having recently both watched and read Angelica's back story, that it was her father, I'm going to want to "go to the tape" before I offer a contradictory position. Smile

Because, knowing my luck, all that is mentioned is her father needed her head to collect the insurance and not that he specifically killed her (even if it's implied, which I admit is not proof).
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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 26 Sep 2008 - 0:03

Triela wrote:Who would hire someone to kill their own daughter when he could just do it himself?
At risk of sounding condescending (and I'm truly, TRULY sorry if I'm coming across as being that way), Triela, it's called a diversionary tactic - drawing attention away from yourself so you can get away with something.

Kiskaloo wrote:All that is mentioned is her father needed her head to collect the insurance and not that he specifically killed her (even if it's implied, which I admit is not proof).
This.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by emperor on Sat 27 Sep 2008 - 6:04

Keep working pal!

I wait for this improvement in wiki for years!

cheers

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by LoC978 on Sat 27 Sep 2008 - 6:17

Nachtsider wrote:
Triela wrote:Who would hire someone to kill their own daughter when he could just do it himself?
At risk of sounding condescending (and I'm truly, TRULY sorry if I'm coming across as being that way), Triela, it's called a diversionary tactic - drawing attention away from yourself so you can get away with something.

Kiskaloo wrote:All that is mentioned is her father needed her head to collect the insurance and not that he specifically killed her (even if it's implied, which I admit is not proof).
This.
that's pretty much it. there's a strong implication, especially with him crashing the car directly afterward (suggesting that the driver was inexperienced, drunk, or both... or conversely, trying to make it look like a drunk driver did the deed).
Mostly, though, I'd say the implication comes from Marco's recitation of the event not even mentioning an investigation. Not to say one wasn't needed, but if her father was passed out at the wheel of his wrecked car, the verdict would be pretty obvious... which is how it was made to seem.

...still, strong implication is not solid evidence, so it shouldn't be mentioned as more than speculation... if it's mentioned at all.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Danjo3 on Sat 27 Sep 2008 - 11:28

Nachtsider wrote:Neither does any exist that Angie's father personally did the whole accident thing.
Thatís kind of nit picking when you think about it. He was responsible, and thatís all that really matters.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by KodokuRyuu on Sat 27 Sep 2008 - 19:41

I believe I remember it saying that he was imprisoned for trying to kill Ange and committing insurance fraud. Maybe it was just the anime, but both are considered canon on Wikipedia. If I'm wrong on that, we can still say it's strongly implied that he masterminded it.

Nachtsider wrote:No evidence exists in the canon that Henrietta and Rico's names are derived from Enrica's.
Fixed. Don't know when that got in there nor why I didn't fix it sooner.
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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 27 Sep 2008 - 19:44

KodokuRyuu wrote:Maybe it was just the anime, but both are considered canon on Wikipedia.
I consider both to be canon, too - anyone who doesn't should get their head examined. But my copy never, ever said that Angie's dad was behind the wheel - merely that he was the mastermind.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by KodokuRyuu on Sat 27 Sep 2008 - 20:27

Ah, I see the issue now. I agree, we have no way of knowing it was actually her father behind the wheel. Fixed the article. If anyone wants to double check this, Wikipedia lists Vol 2 - p. 140 as the reference to this. Anymore fixes people see needed?
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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 27 Sep 2008 - 20:33

The whole 'behind the wheel' thing was what I was trying to get across from the start... but that's all over and done now.

Next up - update Claes' bio with information about her being the daughter of a professor who instilled a love for reading in her from an early age (info from Episode Five, Season One - a 'blink and you'll miss it' moment when Raballo reads her dossier). I'm very unsure about that bit in the Wiki that sez she was the only subject who was healthy prior to being roboticized, too.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 2:24

Nachtsider wrote:I'm very unsure about that bit in the Wiki that sez she was the only subject who was healthy prior to being roboticized, too.
I donít recall ever seeing that. Sounds like someoneís personal theory.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 2:30

Thought as much.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Awinnell on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 7:26

theres no reason given for why Claes is there,and only her name gives a clue to her nationality,and that really means nothing much as people emigrate !

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 7:33

I think she's probably from an immigrant Nordic family. But let's not allow speculation to ruin the Wiki article.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 11:30

Nachtsider wrote:But let's not allow speculation to ruin the Wiki article.
My thoughts exactly. If canon says 2+2=, then you state it as 2+2=. I donít care how oblivious the 4 is, you leave it out until itís confirmed.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 12:31

On another board, someone thought Claes was Swiss. Also, she's ten in the picture in her file, but she looks a bit older in the manga.

Still, with all the biomechanical changes, one wonders if the girls really age physically? Since they have artificial legs and arms they're not going to grow anymore, though I expect their faces and such would change a bit as they aged. Pinocchio hurt his hand when he landed that uppercut on Triela, but I would expect that with a normal skull/jaw.
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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 14:19

Kiskaloo wrote:Still, with all the biomechanical changes, one wonders if the girls really age physically?
Oh my god, here comes Nacht!

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 15:35

Danjo3 wrote:
Kiskaloo wrote:Still, with all the biomechanical changes, one wonders if the girls really age physically?
Oh my god, here comes Nacht!

Sulu - "Shields! SHIELDS!!!"

Opened up a can of worms, did I? sweat

I'm working on the assumption in my story that, for the most part, they do not, though they do obviously age mentally. And it gives Michele and Giuse something to discuss on the flight to Geneva.
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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 18:58

Kiskaloo wrote:They do not, though they do obviously age mentally.
This. How can someone who's eighty percent carbon frame, carbon fiber and artificial muscle physically grow?

Claes looks older than the dossier because she was almost certainly inducted into the SWA a year or two AFTER that photo was taken. I'm estimating at twelve going on thirteen.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 19:31

I would say that their arms and legs would have to be adjustable in som eform to allow some growth. After a certain age, girls stop growing up and start growing out. With minor chages to the face and hormones doing the rest in female developement, what started out as a 13yr old can end up as a 20-ish woman.

You cant say that it cant be done, because is has when they changed Triela to look older and they made her taller in Vol 7(?) when they were protecting Prosecutor Roberta. Why they shrunk her back down to size afterwards is beyond me.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 19:41

ElfenMagix wrote:I would say that their arms and legs would have to be adjustable in some form to allow some growth. After a certain age, girls stop growing up and start growing out. With minor changes to the face and hormones doing the rest in female development, what started out as a 13yr old can end up as a 20-ish woman.

I am hypothesizing in my works that the SWA (and other agencies who employ such biomechanics) would be using some type of growth-stopping therapy to prevent the girls from growing too much over their projected life-spans (which I believe is around 3-4 years for the Gen1's and 5-7 [expected] for the Gen2s). I do know such therapies exist as they were recently used to stop a girl here in Seattle with severe physical and mental disabilities from growing any more so her parents can continue to take care of her.
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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 19:44

In the cyborgs' case, physical growth is pointless. The fact that they're kids is perfect cover for them when they go on operations. NOBODY suspects a kid of being a superhuman killing machine. Physical growth will defeat that purpose.

And it's not any form of therapy that stops them growing. It's the fact that their bones and muscles are steel and carbon fiber. Just look at some frames in the manga and some screenshots from the anime. Artificial bones and muscles =/= growth. Basic medical knowledge.

For the record - are you really sure they did anything to Triela in that episode going beyond padding and a pair of platform shoes?

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 19:50

I'm not on my laptop with the Manga, but the page where Hillshire talks to Triela on the balcony, she is the same height as he is. Later on in the shoot out, where she gets hit, when she sits down, she's wearing regular shoes (sneakers to me). They did some major reconfiguration on that girl for that 1 volume; which with adjustable prostethics is possible.

I can not see them pulling off her arms and legs and replacing them with longer ones just for one mission!

So under all that clothing, she is one lanky & long (female dog)!

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Triela on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 20:00

I don't think they grow. It kills the idea of them being children assassins. The agency probably stunts their growth.

Plus we have to take into account the Yu's art style changed.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 20:03

Okay, I'm looking at Volume Seven now (thank you, scan team). There's absolutely nothing in the dialogue that talks about surgical procedures being conducted on Triela to achieve her new appearance. If anything, the comments that Petra makes about her bust strongly suggest that it's merely a padded brassiere at work.

As for the shoes, perhaps I used the wrong term when I said 'elevator shoes'. I see a shot of Triela's footwear on page 158. Can't rule out lifts built into the soles at all.

And now, for the clincher. On page 134, look at Hillshire's internal monologue upon looking at Triela dolled up as an adult.

"If she were to develop like a normal girl, she would have become such a lovely young woman."

Plus, note what he says to Triela and how she responds.

Hillshire: "I wonder whether you would look like that as an adult."

Triela: "What are you talking about? I'm a cyborg."

Speaks volumes, you ask me...

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 20:07

Oh, and the whole art style thing Triela mentions. If I recall correctly, LoC discovered many instances of fluctuating heights throughout the later volumes.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 20:30

Re: the last post. There's another shot of Triela in Volume Seven, subsequent to the balcony scene, in which she stands only a little over Hillshire's shoulders.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Triela on Sun 28 Sep 2008 - 20:54

I guess Yu doesn't really care about the heights of the characters too much.

Either that or he doesn't think his fans would over-analyze everything! ^O^

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Ggultra2764 on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 1:18

I did some tweaking on the Wikipedia profiles for the GSG characters. I did some tweaking on the explanation of Claes and Henrietta's pasts as well as add on what took place in recent chapters with Triela, Angelica, and Hilshire.
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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 1:45

That's pretty good work, Ggultra - props to you.

Now for a few other bits to fiddle with.

I think Rachelle is important enough to deserve more mention by name, and a character profile of her own. Claes' first name, I feel, should be 'Freda' - 'Fleda' sounds like Engrish. Plus, we could add in Bianchi's first name (Fernando, as seen in a 'blink-and-you'll-miss-it' shot of his ID card in Episode Eight of Season One).

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Danjo3 on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 3:14

It is kind of interesting to note this dialog from vol.7:

Hillshire: The thing is, she will never really grow up.

Sandro: But it wonít stay like that forever.

This makes me wonder if instead of physical growth, Hillshire is referring to limited life span. Even though the bulk of the evidence points to the fact that they donít grow up, itís pretty hard to look at vol.10 and not think other wise.

Nachtsider wrote:Plus, we could add in Bianchi's first name (Fernando, as seen in a 'blink-and-you'll-miss-it' shot of his ID card in Episode Eight of Season One).
Cool. Donít ask me how, but I completely missed that.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 10:17

Danjo3 wrote:This makes me wonder if instead of physical growth, Hillshire is referring to limited life span.

After Angelica dies, Sandro asks Giuseppe how long the Generation 2 cyborgs will last, and he replies "five to seven years, we hope" which implies the Generation 1 cyborgs likely last less. I'm guessing Angelica had been a cyborg for around three years before she passed.

Even though the bulk of the evidence points to the fact that they donít grow up, itís pretty hard to look at vol.10 and not think other wise.

Well I have to believe that they mentally and spiritually grow based on the manga and anime, even if their physical growth is limited to none.
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Re: Cleaning House

Post by LoC978 on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 12:21

This one's been addressed elsewhere...
LoC978 wrote:the more I read, the shorter I think their lifespans are...
Spoiler:

that's for the gen2s, so... if the originals were only supposed to live half that long... two and a half to three and a half years.
...But if Ange only lasted about three years, well... those were a busy three years.
ElfenMagix wrote:LoC. The trouble with this is Angie was the first one, and Triela is figured to be about 5 - 6 years as a cyborg. Though Jean's mouth constantly says the wrong things (forcing Rabello to rewrite Claes 'For Safety Concerns'), I think Jean does not know what he is talking about. Angie seems to have reached that 5 - 7 year mark on her own if you follow that Triela was a cyborg for 5 - 6 years. The Type 2s are suposed to last twice as long than the type ones, making them last about 10 - 14 years.

Angie would have kept on going for another couple more years if some idiot did decide to blow up a garbage truck full of explosives in front of her! Mind you- her body managed to survive- it was the injury to her brain that eventually did her in! And I believe that the med-tech put her down but ODing her on the conditioning meds, for they thought she was too much to repair. The thing is about the human body is that given enough time, it will heal from any sustained injury. The Med-Techs in my belief did not want to put that much more of an investment in Angie, so they put her down and will give Marco another cyborg to play with...

I think that the cyborgs can last at least 10 years, if not longer. Provided that they are properly cared for.
LoC978 wrote:Elfen... if Jean was lying to Alessandro in order to scare him (and I hope he was), I agree with you. However, if he was just throwing the cold, hard truth out there... then the Gen2s are only expected to last 5-7 years... and since it's been established earlier that the Gen2s are expected to last approximately twice as long as the Gen1s, that would mean Angie only lasted... well, 4 years maximum.

to address this, though:
Elfen wrote:I think Jean does not know what he is talking about. Angie seems to have reached that 5 - 7 year mark on her own if you follow that Triela was a cyborg for 5 - 6 years.
...we don't have any information to support those numbers, unfortunately. The passage of time is incredibly difficult to track in this series.
KodokuRyuu wrote:My response to LoC (in spoiler tags 'cause it has stuff from the latest chapter):
Spoiler:
Chapter 54 goes over Triela's past. It clearly states that her rescue occurred 6 years previous to the current story. I highly doubt that Hillshire kept her in his house for a while with only one leg. I believe that he brought her to Italy to become a cyborg ASAP. That would make Triela a cyborg for 6 years.
ElfenMagix wrote:Thank you, KodokuRyuu.
I knew I read it somewhere, just could not remember where.
LoC978 wrote:sweat guess I should keep up with the scanlations better.
Spoiler:
So, it's been 6 years since he picked Triela off the floor of that dock warehouse in Amsterdam... I guess that makes a minimum of 5 years as a cyborg for Triela (we're still in the dark about how long the reconstruction process takes... I say 3 months minimum, 1 year max)... so yeah. Jean was quoting Gen1 numbers... probably to scare 'Sandro.
...and all this makes me say: SWEET! I don't hafta rethink my numbers anymore!
Nachtsider wrote:
Spoiler:
So, my estimate of 2001 to 2007 for Triela's total SWA service at time of the chapter in question can hold water! Yippee!

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 13:20

Well perhaps all of the cyborgs are expected to last five to seven years? It is stated that the conditioning process is what eventually leads to their deaths because it damages their brain. So the stronger the conditioning, the more extensive the brain damage and the quicker the cyborg dies.

And yes, both Chapter 54 and the fact that Triela has six bears (the anime implies she received one each year from Hillshire) point to Triela being a cyborg for up to six years. Chapter 55 implies that they stabilized Triela at the hospital in Amsterdam, but were unable to care for her long-term.

Chapter 55 also states that Triela was given "hypnotic treatment" for "about a year" prior to her being converted to a cyborg (page 95). She is shown next to Angelica, so it is possible that Triela arrived very soon after Angelica was chosen to undergo conversion and that the original conditioning process took significantly longer then it does now. However, the next page states that Hillshire did not know that Triela was conditioned and converted to a cyborg until "much later" and in Chapter 56 Hillshire tells Triela that he saw her after her conversion, but did not know at the time she had been converted and that "one day" he found out and flew into a rage.

So I believe it is possible that Triela was not augmented until at least 12 months after she was rescued by Hillshire. And it was likely longer before Hillshire saw her again for the first time and when he did, he did not know she was a cyborg. Then, months later he found out and was drafted into the SWA to be her handler (say 18-24 months after Amsterdam).

So Triela has been a cyborg for around five years, which is within the range of "expected" life for a cyborg. If Angelica died at around five, and she was converted just before Triela, then it would explain why Triela believes she too will die very soon.

As for the bears, Hillshire could have gotten her the first one after she was rescued in Amsterdam at the hospital. Then the second would have been when he saw her at the Agency, with an additional one every Christmas once he became her handler.
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Re: Cleaning House

Post by KodokuRyuu on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 16:43

ElfenMagix wrote:You cant say that it cant be done, because is has when they changed Triela to look older and they made her taller in Vol 7(?) when they were protecting Prosecutor Roberta. Why they shrunk her back down to size afterwards is beyond me.
Uh, they didn't alter her physically (no surgery), they just dressed her up in a way that looks older (though I have to say, Yu made her too tall for just giving her taller shoes).
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Re: Cleaning House

Post by KodokuRyuu on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 16:44

Nachtsider wrote:Next up - update Claes' bio with information about her being the daughter of a professor who instilled a love for reading in her from an early age (info from Episode Five, Season One - a 'blink and you'll miss it' moment when Raballo reads her dossier). I'm very unsure about that bit in the Wiki that sez she was the only subject who was healthy prior to being roboticized, too.
I don't remember that, but if it flashed by I may not have noticed it. Since you have a ref, I went ahead and added it to the article.
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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 18:28

KodokuRyuu wrote:Uh, they didn't alter her physically (no surgery), they just dressed her up in a way that looks older (though I have to say, Yu made her too tall for just giving her taller shoes).
Called it.

Christ on a crutch, look at Leonardo Conti's profile. 'Fleda' is still there, and any more shows of hands for Rachelle to get her own profile?

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Tommygunner70 on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 18:36

Nachtsider wrote:Plus, we could add in Bianchi's first name (Fernando, as seen in a 'blink-and-you'll-miss-it' shot of his ID card in Episode Eight of Season One).

I missed that...

*Stares at ElfenMagix*

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Nachtsider wrote:any more shows of hands for Rachelle to get her own profile?

*sticks hands up in the air*
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Re: Cleaning House

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 19:40

My Sir/Last name is that of the Spanish Royal Family Prior to 1863. Aka: a very dirty word/name for for Muslim Extremist Fundementalists who actually know their history...
I just so want to bash Bianchi's head in for having my name... He is not a Fernando!

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by KodokuRyuu on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 20:09

Nachtsider wrote:
KodokuRyuu wrote:Uh, they didn't alter her physically (no surgery), they just dressed her up in a way that looks older (though I have to say, Yu made her too tall for just giving her taller shoes).
Called it.
I didn't notice the 2nd page of posts. ;;

Nachtsider wrote:look at Leonardo Conti's profile.
Who is he? Is he really even major enough to deserve a section?

Nachtsider wrote:'Fleda' is still there, and any more shows of hands for Rachelle to get her own profile?
Give me a reference that says her name is officially spelled differently and I'll change it. Note: the anime shows her name as "Flead-Claes-Johansson". I also found that data you mentioned about her father in that same episode. See image below:
Spoiler:

LoC978 wrote:
Spoiler:

that's for the gen2s, so... if the originals were only supposed to live half that long... two and a half to three and a half years.
...But if Ange only lasted about three years, well... those were a busy three years.
Someone please let me see the raw for that page - I still don't trust the translation.
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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 20:13

Leonardo was that Padania reporter chap who tried to get chummy with Patricia. You know, the one whom Angie shot.

Thing about Claes' name is that although it's spelled that way in the screencap, Raballo clearly says 'Freda' when he monologues. I strongly feel that 'Fleda' with the L is Engrish, and the screencap is a mispelling.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by LoC978 on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 20:39

KodokuRyuu wrote:
LoC978 wrote:
Spoiler:
Someone please let me see the raw for that page - I still don't trust the translation.
here ya go:
Spoiler:

whoa, the numbers are western... just noticed...

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by KodokuRyuu on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 21:27

LoC978 wrote:
KodokuRyuu wrote:
LoC978 wrote:
Spoiler:
Someone please let me see the raw for that page - I still don't trust the translation.
here ya go:
Spoiler:

whoa, the numbers are western... just noticed...
Thanks! Noooo! stupid Jean, that can't be right. Yeah, Yu likes using western numbers. Actually, I think it's a rather common practice.

Nachtsider wrote:Leonardo was that Padania reporter chap who tried to get chummy with Patricia. You know, the one whom Angie shot.
Hmm, it's vaguely familiar. Like I said, he doesn't play a major role in the storyline, right? So I say we just delete him from the article. It's not like we have to have every character that's ever appeared listed.

Nachtsider wrote:Thing about Claes' name is that although it's spelled that way in the screencap, Raballo clearly says 'Freda' when he monologues. I strongly feel that 'Fleda' with the L is Engrish, and the screencap is a mispelling.
I figure the screencap is a misspelling too. Does anyone have the English version to check how they pronounce it there? That would be a surefire way to check the official spelling. Also, how is it spelled in the ADV release of the manga (assuming it's spelled out at all)?
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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 21:31

Or just give Leo a one-sentence thing. And turn the spotlight on Rachelle.

I don't believe the manga ever gave us a look at Claes' dossier, although I could be wrong. And sadly, I only own a Mandarin-dubbed bootleg copy of the anime.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 21:41

As far as I remember, it dont. Just shows Rabello reading it...
Found it, Chp6/Pg10. Only shows him reading it and a picture of her at a younger age with her full name. Nothing more.

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Re: Cleaning House

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 29 Sep 2008 - 21:54

But you just said the full name was there. That's what we're looking for. How do they spell it?

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Re: Cleaning House

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