What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

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What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by emperor on Sun 14 Sep 2008 - 11:51

I have this question in mind for while but always forgot to ask everybody here.

And more,do your OC had any planned to act like what Elsa did?

Coolz

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 14 Sep 2008 - 12:36

I admit that being new here, I have not spent any time on my OC other then her name. Embarassed

That being said, I think that an important part of why Elsa did what she did was because I believe that she "broke" her conditioning. Her feelings for Lauro transcended the "unconditional love" that the conditioning imposed on the girls. We're seeing that same transcendence with Henrietta and now Triela (in Chapter 56 of the manga) with their handlers.

In Elsa's case, she realized (or believed) that Lauro did not care for her. Not just didn't love her back, but honestly didn't have any feelings for her, period. I believe one of the roles of the conditioning is designed to protect the handler from his cyborg because the Agency doesn't seem to care how the handler treats their cyborg, as long as the fratello gets results.

So when Elsa's broke her conditioning, she still loved Lauro 110% and she felt she could not live without him. But that he didn't love her back put the fear into her mind that he could leave her or he could be killed, leaving her behind to live a solitary existence as Claes has done since Rabello was killed.

I don't know if she suffered a psychotic break or by some twisted logic decided that it was better for them both to die together then her to be left alone. So she decided to kill Lauro and then take her own life.


The difference with Henrietta and Giuseppe is that Giuseppe shows honest affection for Henrietta (though I don't believe it is the same type of affection Henrietta feels for Giuseppe). As such, as she begins to break her own conditioning, while she feels jealousy towards Giuseppe and his other relationships, I do not believe she will snap like Elsa did.

As to Triela, it seems clear from Chapter 56 that while she has broken her conditioning, as well, in doing so she has come to realize the magnitude of the sacrifices that Hilshire has made for her since that night in Amsterdam. As such, her love for him is not nearly as one-dimensional as Elsa's was (or Henrietta's may become). She first wanted to leave him to protect him (something her conditioning should absolutely prevent) and then she realized she loved him and wanted to spend what she feels her last months alive with him (based on her final words at the end of Chapter 56).

So I expect Hilshire is safe. And Giuseppe is likely okay, as well.

As for Jean, let's just say that I think him hugging Rico when Rico commented she did not feel sad by either Elsa's or Angelica's deaths might have been a really smart thing to do. Nonetheless, I'd be watching my back.
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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by emperor on Sun 14 Sep 2008 - 12:47

As for Jean, let's just say that I think him hugging Rico when Rico commented she did not feel sad by either Elsa's or Angelica's deaths might have been a really smart thing to do

Nice clarified!!

Anyway,your Kara Michelle will act the same way Elsa did ?


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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 14 Sep 2008 - 13:01

emperor wrote:
As for Jean, let's just say that I think him hugging Rico when Rico commented she did not feel sad by either Elsa's or Angelica's deaths might have been a really smart thing to do

Nice clarified!!

Anyway,your Kara Michelle will act the same way Elsa did ?

No, because I don't like how Jean and Lauro treat(ed) their partners. No Good

I would be more like Giuseppe so Kara Michelle will know I care about her and for her, but the relationship will be clearly "older brother / younger sister".
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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by emperor on Sun 14 Sep 2008 - 13:03

Good to know!

cheers

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 14 Sep 2008 - 17:25

Who Rachel? Fernando chalks up the Elsa Incdient as emotional/mental abuse on Elsa by Lauro, and would never abuse Rachel in any such way of the 4 categories of abuse: Emotional, Mental, Physical, Sexual.

On the other hand, Rachel is too forgiving of her god-father to do him wrong. The problem with this is Fernando could abuse her, and she would allow it. This is because she already came from an abusive home and no amount of abuse Fernando could give her could amount to she she used to recieve before becoming a cyborg.

Then there is the whole 'Love' issue, which conditioning forces (or pushes) on the girls of their handlers. Again, with Rachel, this just raises up the wall of abuse that Fernando has to climb in order for her to consider being abused. This is true with all the characters, at least with the canon ones.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Danjo3 on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 3:26

I suppose there are certain aspects of Biffs personal life that little Britney might not be to happy to find out about. Im not saying shed kill him, its just um ya know, to tell the truth, I dont know what the hell shed do.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Guest on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 9:43

But Danjo-sen, wouldn't Britney have some fear if her handler is Biff? I mean the Biff with all that muscle? That's scary...


Considering opinion...if its an interview-type like what Triela did...

::Gewehr::

Sec. 1 guy: So Gewehr, how do you feel about the Elsa incident

Gewehr: Elsa? Who's that?

Sec. 1 guy: ...the girl who shot her handler...?

Gewehr: Sorry, don't know...

Sec. 1 guy: . . . .


::Anna::

-Interview in the rain-

Sec. 1 guy :So Anna, what do you think about the Elsa incident?

Anna: *laughs a silent, creepy laugh* ...she did the right thing.

Sec. 1 guy: ...excuse me?

Anna: We don't need useless fratellos. She did the right thing. *caresses her gun*

Sec. 1 guy: ...wrong girl, wrong time...

-Interview in the sun-

Sec. 1 guy :So Anna, what do you think about the Elsa incident?

Anna: I don't know. Its what I say a little complicated. Maybe she did the right thing of such, but that is something I'm not sure. I think its her conscience to do so...

Sec. 1 guy: So in a way, you're supporting her?

Anna: Not entirely...but maybe.


::Frederick::

Sec. 1 guy: So Frederick, how do you feel about the Elsa incident?

Frederick: I can't comment on something I don't even touch or knew about...I was here after she's gone. Well, I have her room before I move to a different one...

Sec. 1 guy: Tell me, do you think she did the right thing?

Frederick: I can't say much about that either. My handler's short-lived but had taught me a lot of things. Conditioning isn't something to rely on--its just a tool, and I think that's where Lauro messed up.

Sec. 1 guy: So you're saying that you supported her?

Frederick: I don't support her action. Its depressing to think that we lost one of us knowing that we will lose each other as time passes by. I mean, our life is short...

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 10:08

"I was no stranger to Elsa's sharp tongue and unwillingness to suffer fools gladly," said Liesel somberly, a faraway look in her eyes. "But I never held any grudge against her nor wished her any misfortune, and when I went to help check out the crime scene and set eyes upon her poor little body... I nearly broke down, and all the hurt she caused me was instantly forgiven." She turned away, gaze downcast. "It is a fact both tragic and brutal that not everyone shares my feelings. Even in her grave, they hate her still."

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 11:55

As to Kara Michelle's view on the incident, I think she would have likely understood some of why Elsa did what she did for, at the moment, I am thinking of allowing Kara Michelle more leeway in the level of conditioning she undergoes, so she would probably be able to put "2+2" together and come up with, if not "4", at least not "9". Wink

As for her handler (Michele Pagani), he would definitely see it as a breaking of conditioning and would believe that she likely loved him "too deeply" and would have felt that Lauro's treatment of her might have helped precipitate it. Now, Michele would not have the background of their relationship that I do since Michele didn't watch Episode 9 of the original show. But he likely would have had some knowledge about his indifference towards her as well as Elsa's...infatuation...with Lauro.

I expect this would cause Michele to review his own treatment of Kara Michelle and his decisions on her conditioning and training regimens.

And then there is the issue of where Elsa's death happened in the GSG timeline. At the moment, I am planning to have Kara Michelle come to the SWA as a result of the Madrid Train Bombings in 2004. I did read the thread about when GSG takes place and the opinions offered by many members that it was the late 1990's or early 2000's.

As such, she might very well be (one of) the newest cyborgs in the Agency and Elsa's death was in the past so she'd only know if it via third-hand information and therefore would likely give it little to no thought.

Michele was a member of the SWA for a number of years prior to this event, so he would have seen it happen "first hand". However, if it was a number of years (say 5+) between Elsa's incident and he getting Kara, he likely would have pushed it into the back of his mind where it lie mostly forgotten.
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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by LoC978 on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 12:23

I'm of the opinion that Lorenzo and Jean buried the truth on this one deep. That only they know for certain, while the other handlers merely suspect (aside from Giuseppe, who has more pressing concerns than dead comrades). So the chances that any of the girls know what happened (even Henrietta, she's probably forgotten what her intuition told her), are slim to none.

As for a repeat of the Elsa incident... not with Gwen. She's probably the least violent and least stressed of them all, back at the Agency.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 12:27

LoC978 wrote:I'm of the opinion that Lorenzo and Jean buried the truth on this one deep. That only they know for certain, while the other handlers merely suspect (aside from Giuseppe, who has more pressing concerns than dead comrades). So the chances that any of the girls know what happened (even Henrietta, she's probably forgotten what her intuition told her), are slim to none.
Quoted for truth. The official Agency verdict was that Elsa and Lauro were ambushed and killed.

And Liesel has absolutely no reason to pull an Elsa. She reveres Altheus as a teacher, nothing more.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Guest on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 12:52

The official Agency verdict was that Elsa and Lauro were ambushed and killed.

That's officially

Unofficially, I bet the news went around through the mouth of the operatives who pass on the words and theories to the others--possibly as horror stories too :p

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by LoC978 on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 13:27

Panzer IV wrote:Unofficially, I bet the news went around through the mouth of the operatives who pass on the words and theories to the others--possibly as horror stories too :p
highly doubtful, considering the effects of their conditioning (both in terms of obedience/gullibility and memory loss)... not to mention the 24-hour surveillance they're under.
And then there's the handlers... they'd be afraid to discuss any suspicions, for fear of ending up like Raballo.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 15:35

I agree that there would be no real reason to inform the girls of the truth. And it would likely be downright dangerous for the Agency to do so because the girls might very well get to thinking about how such a thing could happen.

The problem is, Henrietta figures it out in Episode 11.

It makes sense that the girls were told that Elsa was killed in an ambush and they have no reason to believe otherwise. And I believe Henrietta would go with the "official story", even if she knew different, because she felt that it was important that they died together. Her own actions in Episode 11 make it clear that she would have likely done the same in the same circumstances. A few of the Cyborgs note that they feel nothing at Elsa's death, which is likely part conditioning and part they never really had anything to do with Elsa.

And as for Rico, she will do whatever Jean tells her. So even if Rico figured out the truth, she'd never reveal it.

I really want to believe that Jean and Lorenzo did not keep this to themselves, but did brief the other handlers. I mean, Elsa went rogue and if she could, the others might, as well. And it is clear from Pietro Fermi's comments at the end of Episode 11 that Giuseppe knew the truth. It is possible Jean told only him, but...

The Agency might very well have wanted to increase the conditioning to prevent such a thing from happening, which could have caused some interesting conflicts amongst those handlers who don't want heavy conditioning (like Giuseppe and Marco).


Last edited by Kiskaloo on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 17:23; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Because I'm stupid. :))
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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Piero on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 16:53

And as for Rico, he will do whatever Jean tells him. So even if Rico figured out the truth, he'd never reveal it.

Um, you do realise that Rico is a girl, right?

As for Episode 11, I think Giuseppe only knows because 'Etta figured it out, not because Jean told him.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 17:22

Piero wrote:Um, you do realise that Rico is a girl, right?


Yes. I happened to be typing that while watching the part in Episode 10 where Section 1 was commenting about Rico being a boy's name and it must have stuck. Embarassed

As for Episode 11, I think Giuseppe only knows because 'Etta figured it out, not because Jean told him.


I would be inclined to disagree because Pietro noted that Giuseppe didn't want Henrietta to have her sidearm when they all walked outside at her request. So I think he suspected she might know and might do something just as...foolish...since he does know she has feelings for him. He also noted later when talking to Pietro that he did not want to use excessive conditioning on Henrietta and that he wanted her to at least respect him. So I believe he felt it was at least conceivable she could do what Elsa did in a similar situation, even if Henrietta herself made it clear that she never could because Giuseppe treated her well.

I really think Pietro had figured out the truth based on his interviews with Section 2, the handlers and the Cyborgs. Which is why I think he went for the gun, as well, thinking Henrietta had also snapped.

And I really believe that Elenora not only knew what happened, but also believed that Henrietta had come to the same conclusion and while she states in her mind that she didn't think Henrietta would actually kill Giuseppe and then herself in front of them, she did remove all the bullets from the magazine before she gave the gun to Henrietta... And I think that was because (at least in part) Henrietta had told her that what she did for Giuseppe were not due to the conditioning, but due to her own desire to do so and that she had feelings for him. Elenora also saw what Henrietta was capable of when that thief on the scooter stole her purse and she chased after him and was ready to lay some serious hurt on him before she arrived and intervened. So perhaps subconsciously she thought there might be trouble and that Henrietta would be best "unarmed".
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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 19:55

Something was said about Petra that disturbs me, about being able to pull memories from her head after she is dead. Perhaps in Petra's case, to put them into a computer and analyze them. But I believe that this is still true in a low tech way: taking the memories out of Dead Elsa and put them into Henrietta so she can speak in Elsa's terms and find out what happened. Hernietta/Jose were the onlyones given a 'vacation' so perhaps this 'vacation' was Henrietta's mind to heal from the onslought of Elsa's memories that were put in. This would explain her behavior and why she acted out in the say she did.

As far as the prilimary reports show, It was Elsa's gun that killed them both. It was much speculation as to why Elsa would have killed Lauro, since the private lives of cyborg/handler is pretty much that- private and unsupervised. Being able to put memory engrams from a dead person to a live one would slove the case for them very easily. As far as the handlers are concerned, they know nothing, they saw nothing, and none of them speak Italian. As far as the news media is concerened, 'Father and daughter killed in park- film at 11.'

Both Fernando and Rachel see the abuse that Elsa went through and an only chalk it up to having one's abused gaurd dog finally turning on them.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by LoC978 on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 20:24

Kiskaloo wrote:The problem is, Henrietta figures it out in Episode 11.
...and most likely forgot a few months later without revealing it to anyone (aside from her little 'episode' in Sicily).
As you said, it was only important to her that they died together... so she believes Elsa is 'happy' with the arrangement in the afterlife. As for the rest... pure speculation. Nothing wrong with speculation, it's just not something to base beliefs on.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by boomer_gonz on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 22:35

Alpha wasn't there. So Alpha doesn't know, Alpha doesn't care.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by LoC978 on Mon 15 Sep 2008 - 23:08

he's a poet and he... uh... he knowit?

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 17:05

:lol!:

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Angiegarde on Tue 23 Sep 2008 - 21:29

In the canon universe, this would be my fanmade characters' reaction.

Clarissa: I was deeply troubled by her death despite how she treated me and Angie (Angelica). While I was angry at her at times, I also got the feeling that she only shunned other people to devote all of her effort to aiding Lauro.

When I heard that she had been killed by the Republican Faction in an ambush, I swore to avenge her and as a result, the next group of Pandanians that I killed looked like swiss cheese when I was done with them.

What makes it worse was that Elsa could have eventually warmed up to the rest of us but that won't happen now thanks to the Republican faction. Now I know how Rico's handler Jean feels......

Jack (Clarissa's handler): I was stunned when I heard about Lauro and Elsa's deaths. However, I have some serious doubts about whole "Pandanian ambush" scenario. I have a feeling that Elsa engaged in a murder/suicide action against Lauro out of feeling unloved and unappreciated by Lauro.

This is exactly why I've constantly pushed to have the girls treated as human beings and NOT as tools so tragedies like this do NOT happen.

Now for the opinion of Elsa from my fanfic universe where Elsa and Lauro lived on....

Elsa: I'm not surprised that Clair (Clarissa) and her handler Jack reacted that way to my death in the "canon" universe. Also, I will admit that I was heading in that direction of engaging in a murder/suicide action against Lauro until Triela (see Nachtsider's fics for details) reached out to me and we became friends. That made my whole murder/suicide line of thought disappear and as for the "incident" in question and how Lauro and I came out of it in one piece, I'd rather not talk about it.

Lauro: Woah. It seems that Jose, Hillshire, Jack and the others were right. The girls are indeed human beings. I came THIS close to being shot in the back by my own partner because of the way that I treated her. Good thing that events conspired to prevent that from happening in my universe.

Note: This is merely how their alternate selves regard the "canon" incident, nothing more.
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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Angiegarde on Tue 25 Nov 2008 - 23:59

Nachtsider wrote:"I was no stranger to Elsa's sharp tongue and unwillingness to suffer fools gladly," said Liesel somberly, a faraway look in her eyes. "But I never held any grudge against her nor wished her any misfortune, and when I went to help check out the crime scene and set eyes upon her poor little body... I nearly broke down, and all the hurt she caused me was instantly forgiven." She turned away, gaze downcast. "It is a fact both tragic and brutal that not everyone shares my feelings. Even in her grave, they hate her still."

I don't really see any of the girls truly hating Elsa for some reason. They seem like a forgiving bunch for the most part.

Then again, it's Liesel perspective on how the others feel about Elsa.
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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Probit Return on Wed 26 Nov 2008 - 15:45

Well, I can't say too much, but I will say this will become an issue for a certain character in Life After Death. Major plot point actually. I feel pretty evil about it too.

Adrianna: Elsa died? I-I don't know what to say...

Antonio: Well shit, she's like a zombie I guess.

Giovanni (Already stated in story, but for convinience perposes): I won't let the same thing happen to me. I will never let her suffer like that again.

Yeah, I'll just stick with my SWA cyborgs. The other ones won't really care one way or another. Well, Maggie would feel bad about it, but that's about it.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 26 Nov 2008 - 15:55

Angiegarde wrote:I don't really see any of the girls truly hating Elsa for some reason. They seem like a forgiving bunch for the most part.

I doubt they hated her, and when she was dead the didn't care (just as they didn't care about Angie).

And by "not care" I don't mean totally disinterested. Henrietta said "it felt weird" not having Angie around anymore and Rico felt something, even if she noted she felt far more from Jean's hug. Only Triela admitted (to herself) about "feeling nothing" and that she felt she was not a kind person because of it.

I wonder if this is part of their programming? A built-in defense mechanism so that if one of them dies on a mission, the rest just keep moving forward and carry out the objective. Frankly, it makes sense to me.
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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Angiegarde on Wed 26 Nov 2008 - 19:16

Those sort of canon reactions to Angie's death seem deadened to me.

I assumed that they'd be sad at least that she was gone but continue on for their handlers.

I can't imagine Triela NOT feeling anything in regards to Angie's death since back in volume 2 of the manga, she seemed to be friends with her.

Perhaps you have it right Kisakloo in how the girls are wired in canon.
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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Guest on Tue 2 Dec 2008 - 2:46

Kiskaloo wrote:



No, because I don't like how Jean and Lauro treat(ed) their partners. No Good


This is what the director wanted everyone to feel.
The only thing that makes GSG such a great anime, is it's POWERFUL.
It really toys with your heart, your mind, and just makes you feel for what's going on.
GSG didn't make itself off action or anything, it made itself on the unique idea of using such a beautiful setting with such an almost twisted plot, packed full of emotion and THE MOST BEAUTIFUL ART I HAVE YET TO RUN INTO IN ANY ANIME Very Happy

$ .02 from that new Guy Wink


Last edited by SomeGuy on Tue 2 Dec 2008 - 8:19; edited 1 time in total

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Tommygunner70 on Tue 2 Dec 2008 - 5:33

SomeGuy wrote:
This is what the director wanted everyone to feel.
The only thing that makes GSG such a great anime, is it's POWERFUL.
It really toys with your heart, your mind, and just makes you feel for what's going on.
GSG didn't make itself off action or anything, it made itself on the uinique idea of using such a beautiful setting with such a almost twisted plot, packed full of emotion and THE MOST BEATIFUL ART I HAVE YET TO RUN INTO IN ANY ANIME Very Happy

$ .02 from that new Guy Wink

Oh wow. this New guy speaks like a veteran Very Happy

This quote is a quote of truth Very Happy

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by emperor on Tue 2 Dec 2008 - 6:23

THE MOST BEATIFUL ART I HAVE YET TO RUN INTO IN ANY ANIME Very Happy

I would say the same as forever!!!!

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Guest on Tue 2 Dec 2008 - 9:16

This is what the director wanted everyone to feel.
The only thing that makes GSG such a great anime, is it's POWERFUL.
It really toys with your heart, your mind, and just makes you feel for what's going on.
GSG
didn't make itself off action or anything, it made itself on the unique
idea of using such a beautiful setting with such an almost twisted
plot, packed full of emotion and THE MOST BEAUTIFUL ART I HAVE YET TO
RUN INTO IN ANY ANIME

Someguy, I'll make you my new best friend.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Guest on Wed 3 Dec 2008 - 1:26

Tehe Very Happy Thanks a bunch guys, but really you guys are the gurus here, I can be knowledgeable at times in general, but I'm not here to boast, I'm here to enjoy the community and take in knowledge from everyone else. I'm more or less just kinda here, I'll express myself as I truly feel I guess =)

Anyways, I do have a list of questions( I think I've already run into a spoiler or two for myself just browsing xD) I'll get to when I catch some spare time, so don't worry I'll be bombarding ya'll with questions soon =)

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Guest on Mon 27 Apr 2009 - 9:23

Uuuh! Interesting topic.

I want to do this when I have OC... Coolz soon!

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by tremec6speed on Thu 21 Jul 2011 - 2:43

Vinson (non handler agent) would have been told the company line. Padania did it. Hence feel bad for both.
Helen the same.
Sal (also hearing the official version) would feel bad for Lauro as he saw him as 'one of the good ones.' Couldn't care less for Desica however.
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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Thu 21 Jul 2011 - 23:33

I get the impression that the Elsa-Lauro incident is one of those "secrets" that everyone in Section Two knows but nobody officially admits to knowing.

Since Elio lives with Lorenzo I'm sure they've discussed it. Although I'm sure it serves as a cautionary tale to all handlers Elio can feel reasonably safe that his own cyborg isn't going to flip her wig like that. Lauro ignored his charge; that's something Elio can't afford to do for a minute even if he wanted to.

To Marisa, the Elsa story (which I'm sure she's heard as dorm gossip) would tragic & sad but ultimately understandable. If a cyborg is not loved by her handler her life is already wasted, no matter how succesful their fratello is.
She would probably like to talk to Elio about it but does not quite have the nerve to bring it up...it is forbidden knowledge after all.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 21 Jul 2011 - 23:48

Francesca, Juanita and Katherine...

Katherine did not last long enough to hear about it, let alone say a word about. She was, however, found out first hand what happens to a person if said person went after a handler with guns blazing and his cyborg(s) just a few feet away.

Juanita, having heard of the Elsa case (later on in their universe's time line), felt sorry for Elsa and says that Lauro had it coming to him.

Francesca, finds out about it before Juanita due to Rachel's big mouth. This leads to her spending the whole night with Fernando where a lot of things are explained and ends with a kiss and "I'm too tired for anything tonight." Since then Francesca has been happy to some degree, even 1 degree, and everyday since. Fernando would get mad at her for things that she does but she understands it as such and not mad at her. It makes things a lot easier for her to handle everyday life as a bubble-headed cyborg that she is.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Alfisti on Fri 22 Jul 2011 - 4:08

Monty: Who?

If someone did decide to take the time to fill her in, or she found out of her own accord, I imagine she'd think it was highly unprofessional of Elsa before immediately filing it away under "not my problem" and not thinking about the incident ever again. Remember it would be viewed through the lens of her own relationship with Jethro, which is of a whole pretty good. She is familiar with the feeling of something being so close yet so far away, which would probably be all the more reason for her to consider Elsa's actions as being something of a poor showing.

As to Jethro, he probably got the standard primer on the incident on the down-low from one or more of the other handlers, and I imagine he took the information onboard and stored away for future reference if required. His attitude however would also eventually verge on the "not my issue", again viewed through the relationship he shares with Monty. Lets be honest here: Monty's a grumpy, anti-social, jaded, cynical, judgemental, workaholic with a superiority complex and caffiene fixation... but Jethro loves her anyway.

In all Jethro'd possibly consider Lauro's actions short-sighted, but he's also very much of the school of thought that how a handler decides to run their fratello is their business.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 22 Jul 2011 - 14:59

Alfisti wrote:Monty's a grumpy, anti-social, jaded, cynical, judgemental, workaholic with a superiority complex and caffiene fixation... but Jethro loves her anyway.
Fernando: So, you know too.

Alfisti wrote:In all Jethro'd possibly consider Lauro's actions short-sighted, but he's also very much of the school of thought that how a handler decides to run their fratello is their business.
Fernando: True, but when the training and care of a handler to his/her cyborg starts to effect its performance where it can be a detriment to all involved in a mission, then it becomes everybody's business.

In thinking, Jean got on Jose's case in front of Lorenzo because he believes that Henrietta's training was not enough. Though at that time during canon, the Lauro/Elsa team has considered as one of the best teams around, sent on missions no one else would (like getting a perp ready for the senator's assassination). But because they did performed well in their missions, no one questioned Lauro's handling and training of his cyborg: Elsa. But in the end, Elsa started getting sloppy, and no one called Lauro on it. Even when she failed in the police chief's assassination mission, no one called Lauro on it. Since no one called him on it, and he was oblivious to what was going on with Elsa, what happened was something that one day would happen...

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Alfisti on Fri 22 Jul 2011 - 19:48

ElfenMagix wrote:Fernando: True, but when the training and care of a handler to his/her cyborg starts to effect its performance where it can be a detriment to all involved in a mission, then it becomes everybody's business.
Very true... which is why I sort of like the idea of the handlers being a bit self-policing. That said, regards Jethro: remember his fratello's roll generally keeps him away from the others. Because of that I think in some respects it would make it easier for him to remain detatched.

ElfenMagix wrote:In thinking, Jean got on Jose's case in front of Lorenzo because he believes that Henrietta's training was not enough. Though at that time during canon, the Lauro/Elsa team has considered as one of the best teams around, sent on missions no one else would (like getting a perp ready for the senator's assassination). But because they did performed well in their missions, no one questioned Lauro's handling and training of his cyborg: Elsa. But in the end, Elsa started getting sloppy, and no one called Lauro on it. Even when she failed in the police chief's assassination mission, no one called Lauro on it. Since no one called him on it, and he was oblivious to what was going on with Elsa, what happened was something that one day would happen...
Jean is, to me at least, something of a special case regards intervening with fratelli: he's the Field Commander... it's sort of his job to get up underperforming subordinates. Double whammy: Jose's his little brother so he's probably had plenty of practice telling him what he should be doing since even before they came to the SWA. Razz

As to Lauro: I guess success brings with it a certain amount of leeway. As you said: Lauro and Elsa were one of the top fratelli, one waver on a mission could be discounted as just how life goes (and from memory, Jose and 'Etta completed that one anyway). Should Jean, Ferro or Lorenzo have picked up on a potential issue? Possibly. One failing I guess of the SWA's organization is that it's that tier of middle-ranks (Jean, Ferro... those dealing day-to-day with the fratelli), while very competent, don't seem to be overly emotionally switched on. I guess that's why they have Bianchi. I agree though, the Lauro/Elsa incident was something that was going to happen eventually, if not to them then some other fratelli, and it was going to be a wakeup call for the SWA. Part of me wonders if that wasn't one of the drivers for the revised conditioning of the 2nd Gens.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by tremec6speed on Sat 23 Jul 2011 - 3:48

Professor Voodoo wrote: 'I get the impression that the Elsa-Lauro incident is one of those "secrets" that everyone in Section Two knows but nobody officially admits to knowing.'
Good point.
EDIT: Since Sal is a man in the know(so to speak), what with his gov. and corp. connections he should know the truth as well, (previously posted he went with the company line) which no doubt translates into further distrust towards Helen (and cyborgs in general). Especially since Lauro was perhaps the only agent there he felt was worth befriending.
As for my other fratello Gunther and Ayden (Lauro's kid brother), Lauro's death is primo in their tale.
Official version is what brings him to SWA (with help from others)
but as you can imagine there has to be the inevitable finding out of the truth.
(the bosses expect others who are also aware of what actually happened to stay mum about the issue around him)
So in my story of this team, the cyborg finds out first (through the grapevine) and when Gunther finally does learn the truth, it brings about major consequences as Lauro's younger sibling takes the news badly since in his own opinion of the Elsa incident, the fault must have been the cyborg's and therefore has dire consequences for Ayden for reasons I'll post in my characters thread since I don't want to go too off track with this thread. Enough to say his opinion is very biased against Elsa.
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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Odon on Sat 23 Jul 2011 - 5:54

Regarding the 'who knows' question: Keep in mind that Jose and Jean seem to guess what happened pretty early (as both confiscate their cyborg's firearms). Indeed given the abilities of the cyborgs and the injuries inflicted (a bullet in the back of the handler's head, and a bullet through the eye at close range, with both victims facing in the same direction) then fratellocide is the only explanation that makes sense; they just don't know why it happened. Likewise Henrietta is able to figure out both the 'what' and 'why' despite being told only the 'official' version. It's interesting that in the following anime episode Triela says to Henrietta: "I hear you put on quite a show in Sicily" so it's obvious the girls have access to the rumour mill and at least some version of Henrietta's 'suicide re-enactment' has made the rounds.

The doctors discuss Elsa among themselves, though it would make sense that they'd have to know, especially if changes to the conditioning were requested to prevent a repeat incident.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Sat 23 Jul 2011 - 8:08

Odon wrote:Triela says to Henrietta: "I hear you put on quite a show in Sicily" so it's obvious the girls have access to the rumour mill and at least some version of Henrietta's 'suicide re-enactment' has made the rounds.
The SWA is populated by ex-cops, ex-spies and adolescent girls. It may be the greatest rumour mill the world has ever known.

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 24 Jul 2011 - 7:40

ElfenMagix wrote:Fernando: True, but when the training and care of a handler to his/her cyborg starts to effect its performance where it can be a detriment to all involved in a mission, then it becomes everybody's business.
Rachel: You hear that you little shit?

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Officer_Charon on Sun 24 Jul 2011 - 16:12

Professor Voodoo wrote:
Odon wrote:Triela says to Henrietta: "I hear you put on quite a show in Sicily" so it's obvious the girls have access to the rumour mill and at least some version of Henrietta's 'suicide re-enactment' has made the rounds.
The SWA is populated by ex-cops, ex-spies and adolescent girls. It may be the greatest rumour mill the world has ever known.

John: "The adage used to be 'the only thing faster than light is rumor in the Marine Corps,' but I _DO_ believe I've found the Holy Grail of Intel-sharing..."

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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by sage44 on Sun 4 Dec 2011 - 17:09

The bros told the sis's about what happened to Elsa and how they think it was Murder/Sucide...

Michel:
" Wow, you guys wanna ask me about the Elsa incident. I don't care about it! Well Elsa was a very keep to herself girl. I have seen her a few times and she was not kind, so all I have to say is good ridens... " * Orchard covers Michel's mouth, * " No... do not say that Minx, she was a nice girl "

Orchard time Very Happy :

" Well ... I really think she was trying to be closer to her handler.... and in heaven she could do that. Poor Elsa, if she just had a friend. Someone to save her.

Fillala:
I don't care about the dumb wing crap head. I would never kill my fratello Cirus... she had no right to kill her fratello!


Venus: " I tried to do what Elsa did once... stupid Lebie!!! "
" I heard that!!!!!!!!!! "
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Re: What are your OC poinion about Elsa incident?

Post by Guest on Thu 22 Dec 2011 - 3:46

Kyle: You gonna freak like that Elsa punk?

Zinaida: Well.. What?

K: Would you pull a murder suicide? On me?

Z: I.. Well.. I mean, is that what you want?

K: Of course not.

Z: Well there you have it.. She was a short sighted brat who was emotionally, though maybe not intentionally, abused by her handler. (And judging by his opinions towards us, I'm sure he put her through an immense amount of conditioning.)

K: Huh. Good to know. ... Yknow, it sounds like you've put a bit of thought in to this.. I only know she killed 'im.

Z: Well... No, I wouldn't.

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