What is cyborg type 3 ?

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What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by emperor on Fri 7 Nov 2008 - 8:29

From many OC I've seen here,I'm curious about when you stated that your cyborg is Type 3.

What type 3 cyborgs can do when compare to type 1 and 2 ?

Type 3's ability......

Coolz

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Guest on Fri 7 Nov 2008 - 13:03

What I see in West-san's OC, Type 3 focuses on specialization. For example, a cyborg build and breed for sniper duty (with upgraded eyes, etc.)? I'm not sure tho...West-san could fill you in though Very Happy

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 7 Nov 2008 - 17:39

As soon as this is well defined, it will be posted in the OC Wiki.

As it stands, there are 4 Cyborg Types: Type (Generation) 0, Type (Generation) 1 {Henrietta and the girls}, Type (Generation) 2 {Petrushka}, and Type (Generation) 3. I have already defined the Type 0 in the OC Wiki.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Guest on Sat 8 Nov 2008 - 7:36

What about those bearing the Type 1-2?


For example, a Type 2 prototype or something...?

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 8 Nov 2008 - 10:27

Well we know Petrushka was the first Generation 2, however she and the other three we know about were all very "chummy", so I expect that they were all converted very close together (likely within a span of under three months), so I don't expect that there are any material differences between them and they are all built to a more-or-less common specification.
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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Guest on Sat 8 Nov 2008 - 12:27

How about in OC-term?

For example, Frederick was Generation 1 but was fitted with a prototype skeletal of Generation 2. What does that make?

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 8 Nov 2008 - 12:55

I guess a 1.5?

Kara is a pure Gen2, converted after Petrushka and before the other three.
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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 8 Nov 2008 - 16:53

Cyborg v1.9.63a-Beta.
*ducks & runs*

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 8 Nov 2008 - 18:00

As long as it is not "Cyborg Vista"... snipe
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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Guest on Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 2:36

'Cyborg Vista' is what Generation 2 best described as. A bitch.



OR they could be described as 'Cyborg ME'


FAIL!

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by TTIO on Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 6:22

So does that mean that gen3 will be Azure?!

"We're sorry, but you have exceeded your bandwidth for this month." And the cyborg just stands there doing nothing Very Happy

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by LoC978 on Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 6:40

heh... I guess at the end Gwen is a Cyborg v.1.2.59a... (not just arbitrary numbers, those are all revisions)

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Guest on Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 11:20

Then I guess Frederick's a Generation 1.5 Laughing


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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 12:17

Kara's official Agency designation is XB 11-02 since she followed Petrishka (whose official designation is XB 11-01 per Chapter 42, Page 95 of the manga).

Of course, being second, she benefits from the service pack. study

So Petrushka would be "Cyborg OS X 10.5" and Kara would be "Cyborg OS X 10.5.1" because like a Mac, Generation 2 cyborgs just work. Razz
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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by TTIO on Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 12:18

:lol!:

Reminds me, I saw a BSoD at an airport once...

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by boomer_gonz on Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 17:48

This discussion is interesting, I wonder what Alpha and Alex's designation would be.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 20:15

Due to her late arrival, this would put Rachel as a v2.9.11473a.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 9 Nov 2008 - 23:53

This is the 'offical' (as in its in the OC Wiki) definition of the Type Generation 3 cyborg.

(As created by West Nile:)

3rd Generation cyborgs at a glance:
Seeing all the flaws of 2nd generation the doctors in the SWA rolled in the 3rd generation of cyborgs. These cyborgs shows the rigid design of the 1st generation but with a great tone down on their abilities through specialized abilities and not through generalized tasks. Instead of making well rounded girls they made girls that are particularly good in certain things. This relieves the stress of overall training and still makes them useful.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Guest on Mon 10 Nov 2008 - 9:21

because like a Mac, Generation 2 cyborgs just work

Not entirely. Some--or most in other cases--Gen. 2 cyborgs were more of a 'Generation Vista'. a bitch.

Generation 1 is more of a 'Generation XP'. Very Happy

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 10 Nov 2008 - 10:25

The funny thing is, outside of Rico, Petrushka is likely the closest to meeting what the SWA wants from a cyborg in terms of competence, effectiveness and adherence to orders.
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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Guest on Mon 10 Nov 2008 - 10:31

The funny thing is, outside of Rico, Petrushka
is likely the closest to meeting what the SWA wants from a cyborg in
terms of competence, effectiveness and adherence to orders.

You mean in Sandro's term?

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Awinnell on Mon 10 Nov 2008 - 11:56

Panzer IV wrote:
because like a Mac, Generation 2 cyborgs just work

Not entirely. Some--or most in other cases--Gen. 2 cyborgs were more of a 'Generation Vista'. a bitch.

Generation 1 is more of a 'Generation XP'. Very Happy

ah you mean, no longer in production and shortly to lose its technical support ?

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by LoC978 on Mon 10 Nov 2008 - 13:33

If one needs tech support for XP, one should just do themselves a favor and switch to an OS you don't need to know how to use. Like Mac OS.

...just bitter from my years working tech support. Most of the people who call shouldn't be allowed to own a computer. Or breed.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 10 Nov 2008 - 20:47

LoC, Many of the same ppl should not be allowed to own cars, guns, or much of anything else; and I have been saying that about computers when they were the hobbyists' thing in 1979!

How many ppl out there can built they own CPU or working baby cpu board?
Or how many know about the "Smoke Test" rule?

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Guest on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 1:39

ah you mean, no longer in production and shortly to lose its technical support ?

Sad, but true. HOWEVER it was highly reliable, comfortable, and flexible.

...HENRIETTA NOOOOOO!!!!!!

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by emperor on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 6:11

*Back on topic people*

You mean type 3 are stronger than type 2 ?

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 6:14

Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but where I come from, a higher numerical designation attached to a newer version of an old product represents improvement.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Tommygunner70 on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 11:45

@Nachtsider wrote:Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but where I come from, a higher numerical designation attached to a newer version of an old product represents improvement.

Same here.
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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Guest on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 11:52

You mean type 3 are stronger than type 2 ?

Humm...I wouldn't say that.

Its more like you have an M1 Garand. That's a type 2. You add a sniper scope in it and voila! You have a sniper rifle. That's type 3

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 12:25

The manga implies the Type 2's were created for at least the following reasons:

  • To create prosthetic devices that can be used with adults.
  • To correct some of the behavioral issues that manifested themselves in the Gen 1's, likely due to the conditioning process itself (replacing "love" with "loyalty").
  • Increase their usable lifespan.
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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Guest on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 12:40

In the fandom universe, Generation 3 is described to be:

-Enhanced physical power
-Extended capabilities
-Specialized in terms of role (snipers, spy, etc.)

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by ElfenMagix on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 16:31

Panzer IV wrote:In the fandom universe, Generation 3 is described to be:

-Enhanced physical power
-Extended capabilities
-Specialized in terms of role (snipers, spy, etc.)
Enhanced physical power- by how much?
A Type 1 is about ten times stronger than a human while a Type 2 is about four times as strong, which is still capable of killing a human barehanded. A type 3 would be somewhere in the middle.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 17:01

In terms of raw physical abilities, I tend to think the Type 1's would be the strongest with the fastest reflexes and the best armor. Having read the manga, I remain firm in my belief the main purpose of the Type 1 girls is for offensive combat situations and that is what drove their design.

Since we have only seen Petrushka in action, it is hard to tell what the Type 2's were designed for as it applies to fitting into Section 2 operations. We've seen her used mostly for espionage and intelligence gathering, which is really the mission of Public Safety and not Special Operations. Since Alessandro came to Special Operations from Public Safety, is he imprinting on Petrushka his own former role? Should Petrushka really be an assassin like the Type 1 girls and Alessandro is just employing her differently? She's been trained for weapons and hand-to-hand combat, after all, just like the Type 1's.
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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by ElfenMagix on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 20:50

In the manga of her construction, it states what they left out of her (Petra)...
Thus far, she is lucky not to have been hit, or else 'Sandro (and the rest of the GsG world) may discover that Petra (and thus the rest of the Type 2's) does not have the bullet resistant body liner that the Type 1s have.

In fact, this is how I have Rachel- without the internal liner, and thus she wears an external liner on missions. Anyone who has a Type 2 OC should do the same or they risk in losing their cyborgs from a lucky shot to the mid section.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 22:20

I am operating under the assumption that the Type 2's are armored. They might not be as heavily armored (perhaps NIJ Type IIIA for the chest and Type II for the abdomen), but I can't see them being totally unarmored.
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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 22:38

Making them unarmored would defy reason. Might as well send normal soldiers with above-average gymnastic ability to do the job.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by ElfenMagix on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 23:13

V6 CH31 P129-
Dr. Gilliani: For this series we tried not to touch the upper torso. Of course her internal organs, muscles and skin are artifical... as long as she is not shot by the enemy. I hope her lifespan is long.

-That means, they have no protection like the Type 1's do.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 11 Nov 2008 - 23:16

I disagree. It just says they didn't do the level of modification they did with the Type 1's.

And we don't know what they did to the Type 1's torso. Maybe they replaced the ribcage and/or clavicle with CFRP and titanium. Maybe they used tons of artificial muscle so without a shirt they're as ripped as Biff. Maybe they re-arranged their internal organs. Or moved the arteries and veins around for better protection.

I mean you all write them the way you wish, but for my fiction, Kara has some armor.
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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by emperor on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 1:44

The weakest point of Type 2 is thigh.

I disagree that type 3 just a middle of type 2 because when section 2's doctor made a new type cyborg,they should improve all the cyborg's body.

At least,type 3 must be more physical power than type 2.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by TTIO on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 15:05

@Nachtsider wrote:Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but where I come from, a higher numerical designation attached to a newer version of an old product represents improvement.

Let's just take a step back here. A higher number means it is supposed to be better. But look at XP as compared to Vista or (dare I say it?) Azure. Better? *scoffs*

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 18:23

Episode 9:





Manga V2 Ch10 P158:





Both show the same thing.
Consider that Angie was a Quadriplegic when she arrived at the SWA, you are talking about a full and total repair of the unit's body. Secondly, Episode 12- she took several rounds to the abdomen, and survived the long flight home in an army medivac when most people would not have. Furthermore, Angie survived and managed to save Marco's life in the Truck Bomb Incident. Ever seen what happens to a body that close to an explosion of such magnatude? This says that the Type 1's bodies have some kind of internal protection that can take a lot of punishment, that type 2s do not seem to have. (I'll also point out that Henrietta took on a Bouncing Betty and had little damage done to her.)

Why is it that Dr. Gilliani would say in V6 CH31 P129- "...as long as she is not shot by the enemy. I hope her lifespan is long."?

That says volumes to me that the Type 2's do not have the same internal protection that the type ones have. In fact it says that they have little to no protection.

Also, as mentioned in the chatroom the other night, someone said that "Perhaps under all the clothing, all the cyborgs are built like Biff." In Volume 6, thanks to Sandro, we managed to see a naked Petrushka, and she is not buffed out like Biff. In fact, she looks like a typical skinny girl of her age and height. So that cant be either.

Face it- Canon States that the Type 2's have little to no internal protection and bullet resistance that the Type 1's appear to have. Now what you do with your OCs is on you, but I have my Type 2 as by Canon Definition of its physical make up. This is why in my stories, my type 2 cyborg (Rachel) has her own bullet resistant t-shirt to wear on missions.

Good writing is accepting the limitations of a character and use them to their advantage to win a no-win situation. Creating God-Characters (and yes- I am guilty of that when writing Fernando) in order to win in a story is bad writing. In that, there must be some sort of agreement to say that type 2's with internal bullet resistance protection is not a type 2, but perhaps a type 2.5- an augmentation of a type 2 as per Yu's definition, and a correction of his mistake in creating them.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 19:54

So we have the Type 1's, who are armored like a main battle tank.

And then we have the Type 2's, who are armored like an inflatable dummy tank.

As I said last night, that makes absolutely no sense to me. And it should make absolutely no sense when you think that these girls are designed for melee combat with guns.

Why would you create Type 2's then? Why not send Ferro, Nehad, Alfonso, Amadeo or Giorgio? They're as effective an agent at that point - likely even more effective since they have years of experience, skill and training.

Because you need someone who can break down a door? Use a modern piston-powered compact one-man battering ram.

Because you need young-looking operatives? A number and two words -- 21 Jump Street.

We also know from manga Chapter 4 and Episode 12 of the first anime series that the cyborg program is under pressure and threat from other governments agencies that want to discredit it and cancel it. So the answer to that is to create ten new cyborgs who are effectively helpless?

Do they have to be armored like the Type 1's? No.
Do they need to be able to survive getting hit by a car or absorbing a bomb blast? No.
Should they be effectively invulnerable to 5.56mm/7.62mm round at point blank range? No.

But that also doesn't mean that they have to either go around naked to incoming fire or they need all their clothes to have a Dragon Skin backing.

Modern NIJ Type IIA ballistic armor capable of defeating 9mm or .40S&W with impact velocities of around ~300m/s is powerfully thin and flexible. They make it in vests now designed to be worn under suit jackets for executives (hear that, Hillshire?). It is clear that the SWA has developed some new "miracle" versions of CFRP. I would not be surprised if the artificial CFRP muscle bundles themselves offered around this level of protection. That would be enough basic protection for a Type 2 cyborg and would just be part of their structure/construction.

Clearly, the Type 1's have stronger armor. At least somewhere around NIJ Type III (7.62mm NATO rifle round) based on what Triela and Angelica took. That pretty much requires ceramic plates in reality, but again, we saw with the BMW X5 and the Ferrari 575M that there exists in the GSG world CFRP armor that can stop just about anything a personal slug-thrower can shoot. And you could lay it down in overlapping "riveted" strips and plates to offer full body movement (ala medieval plate armor).

Alessandro is obviously very fond of Petrushka, yet he dresses her in as little as possible. Now either all her clothes are woven from aramids and ultra high molecular weight polyethylene, or her body offers at least some basic level of ballistic protection.

If you want Rachel to wear additional ballistic protection, more power to you. All the handlers have it in my current story and I damn near put it on Kara and Petrushka because I believe they doesn't have the protection level that the rest of the girls do. But since I need Kara to be shot in the abdomen, I had her opponent use 9x39mm steel-core bullets. They're not really armor-piercing, but they have much better penetrating power then a copper-jacketed version, to say nothing of a CJ 9x19mm Parabellum round. At a handful of meters range and fired from a submachine gun, they had more then enough velocity to penetrate her basic protection and bore nice clean holes all the way through her and out her back.

The only other option is the reflexes of the Type 2 cyborgs are so fast, they effectively operate in "bullet time" and can just twist out of the way of any incoming rounds fired at them.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 20:36

Yeah, baby.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Whatface on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 20:49

The point of gen2's is to provide a pair of tits.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 20:50

@Whatface wrote:The point of gen2's is to provide a pair of tits.

And that's bad?

Maybe those tits have ballistic-resistant gel in them, which is what protects them from bullets.
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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Awinnell on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 20:53

there are other reasons for the type 2's ,longer life span for one,the direct knowledge implantation that speeds up the training, and the SWA is pretending to be a charity helping the disabled with prosthetic implants,so the type 2 design that doesn't kill you in 5 years is a definite step in the right direction for that little subterfuge,apart from anything else the new designs are more likely to be put into civilian use,and sales of said implants would help cover the money trail of the SWA

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Whatface on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 21:02

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Whatface wrote:The point of gen2's is to provide a pair of tits.
And that's bad?

Maybe those tits have ballistic-resistant gel in them, which is what protects them from bullets.
They increase the chance of the cyborg being hit when rounding corners.

Better to have a flat chest and not get hit at all Razz

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 21:04

Well it was stated one of the reasons the Type 2 are older girls is that the SWA wants to develop prosthesis that can be used with adults so they need larger body types (though Petrushka is the same height as Triela - 160cm). Also, it is the conditioning medication and chemical brainwashing that eventually kills the brain, not the prosthesis themselves. If not for the need to condition the girls to follow orders without question and erase certain (or complete) sets of memories, the Type 1's and Type 2's would likely live normal lifespans (even abnormally long ones, considering the amount of artificial organs).
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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by West Nile on Thu 13 Nov 2008 - 7:07

@Kiskaloo wrote:Well it was stated one of the reasons the Type 2 are
older girls is that the SWA wants to develop prosthesis that can be
used with adults so they need larger body types (though Petrushka is
the same height as Triela - 160cm). Also, it is the conditioning
medication and chemical brainwashing that eventually kills the brain,
not the prosthesis themselves. If not for the need to condition the
girls to follow orders without question and erase certain (or complete)
sets of memories, the Type 1's and Type 2's would likely live normal
lifespans (even abnormally long ones, considering the amount of
artificial organs).

but isn't the conditioning drug similar to the ones people who had organ transplants have to take? take a look at Triela in vol 10...

@ElfenMagix wrote:This is the 'offical' (as in its in the OC Wiki) definition of the Type Generation 3 cyborg.

(As created by West Nile:)

3rd Generation cyborgs at a glance:
Seeing
all the flaws of 2nd generation the doctors in the SWA rolled in the
3rd generation of cyborgs. These cyborgs shows the rigid design of the
1st generation but with a great tone down on their abilities through
specialized abilities and not through generalized tasks. Instead of
making well rounded girls they made girls that are particularly good in
certain things. This relieves the stress of overall training and still
makes them useful.

wait does that make me the "father of the 3rd gen"?

IM NOT READY TO BE A DADDY!!!

just kidding, anyway my take of the 3rd gen pretty much covers these roles

-specialization
-less conditioning (since they need less work)
-longer life span (due to less work)
-team work reliance
-efficiency in terms of their specialization
-mediocre work in stuff they don't specialize (but possible none theless)
-less versatility (since they are specialists)

In my fic's 3rd gens play a support role with the 2nd gens and the
remaining 1st gens, unless the job is soley a sniping job, aquatic
infiltration, no light job. then a 3rd gen can work alone.

in short they have the skill and resilience of the 1st gen, and the
long lifespan of the 2nd.... i think that's pretty much what the SWA
wanted.

@emperor wrote:*Back on topic people*

You mean type 3 are stronger than type 2 ?

well let's see, here are the reasons that i made that showed that the 2nd gens are a big mistake

Petrushka- being obsesed with Sandro (well this would work both ways since this is HIS fault)
Ella- extremely bitchy and only follows orders to live...
Mina- rendered delierious by the conditioning drug...
Mina: PEEKO IS REAL!!!

so the 3rd gen is suppose to go back to the old obedient and sturdy 1st gens but still live as long as the 2nd gens

thus:
2nd gen vs 3rd gen= 3rd gen wins
1st gen vs 3rd gen= still unknown

note: even though 3rd gens are 'specialists' it still up to the handler how they would be trained.
Fei- is still a very effective room cleaner since she can "feel" all the people in the room that she just entered, whether the lights were on or not
Sophia- even though she was meant for the water, remains to be a very formidable opponent in hand-to-hand combat since her water training forces her not to use a gun.
Anica- can snipe you with a pistol... enough said

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by West Nile on Thu 13 Nov 2008 - 9:08

o yeah the wiki version of the type 3 seems too short, here's my submitted aplication to replace this, it's open to criticism

type 3 (aka The Specialist Generation) are of the SWA's Section 2 way of encompassing the mistakes made by both the Type 1 and Type 2 generation

Improvements to the Type 3 over Type 1 are:
-Lessened need for conditioning
-Less stress on the cyborg
-Enhanced Sensory Inputs. (depending on specialization)
-Enhanced Learning and long term memory.

Improvements to the Type 3 over Type 2 are:
-Better Carbon Fiber Skeleton. (similar to Type 1)
-Enhanced Sensory Inputs. (depending on specialization)
-Enhanced Learning and long term memory.
-Enhanced Reflexes and Strength over the Type 2.
-Enhanced Internal Bullet Resistance.

Type 3 Cyborg Requirements:
-Total Hands-on Instruction.
-Total Handler Interaction and Control of the unit.
-Bonding of Cyborg/Handler as a Fratello.
-Between the ages 10-17.



Seeing all the flaws of 2nd generation the doctors in the SWA rolled in the 3rd generation of cyborgs. These cyborgs shows the rigid design of the1st generation but with a great tone down on their abilities through specialized abilities and not through generalized tasks. Instead of making well rounded girls they made girls that are particularly good in certain things. This relieves the stress of overall training and still makes them useful.



Failure of the Type 3 Cyborgs.

The failure of this generation will always ironicly their advantage, their specializations. The 3rd generation will always fall victim to bad planning on the hand of their handlers where they will be forced to work outside of their specialization on short notice and will be nearly incapacitated by their inability to cope in a situation they are not trained to handle.

On a different note, affection from the cyborg remains a problem as seen the example of Sophia (1st Amphibious cyborg) who has a dangerous affection to her handler.

On a social aspect, being a "specialist" also affects a 3rd gen's attachment to pears. Sophia apears arogant and spoiled, not wanting to work with other cyborgs (which is detremental to a 3rd gen). On the other hand Fei is continously offended (intentionally and unintentionally) by other members of the SWA for her inability to see.

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