What is cyborg type 3 ?

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 19:54

So we have the Type 1's, who are armored like a main battle tank.

And then we have the Type 2's, who are armored like an inflatable dummy tank.

As I said last night, that makes absolutely no sense to me. And it should make absolutely no sense when you think that these girls are designed for melee combat with guns.

Why would you create Type 2's then? Why not send Ferro, Nehad, Alfonso, Amadeo or Giorgio? They're as effective an agent at that point - likely even more effective since they have years of experience, skill and training.

Because you need someone who can break down a door? Use a modern piston-powered compact one-man battering ram.

Because you need young-looking operatives? A number and two words -- 21 Jump Street.

We also know from manga Chapter 4 and Episode 12 of the first anime series that the cyborg program is under pressure and threat from other governments agencies that want to discredit it and cancel it. So the answer to that is to create ten new cyborgs who are effectively helpless?

Do they have to be armored like the Type 1's? No.
Do they need to be able to survive getting hit by a car or absorbing a bomb blast? No.
Should they be effectively invulnerable to 5.56mm/7.62mm round at point blank range? No.

But that also doesn't mean that they have to either go around naked to incoming fire or they need all their clothes to have a Dragon Skin backing.

Modern NIJ Type IIA ballistic armor capable of defeating 9mm or .40S&W with impact velocities of around ~300m/s is powerfully thin and flexible. They make it in vests now designed to be worn under suit jackets for executives (hear that, Hillshire?). It is clear that the SWA has developed some new "miracle" versions of CFRP. I would not be surprised if the artificial CFRP muscle bundles themselves offered around this level of protection. That would be enough basic protection for a Type 2 cyborg and would just be part of their structure/construction.

Clearly, the Type 1's have stronger armor. At least somewhere around NIJ Type III (7.62mm NATO rifle round) based on what Triela and Angelica took. That pretty much requires ceramic plates in reality, but again, we saw with the BMW X5 and the Ferrari 575M that there exists in the GSG world CFRP armor that can stop just about anything a personal slug-thrower can shoot. And you could lay it down in overlapping "riveted" strips and plates to offer full body movement (ala medieval plate armor).

Alessandro is obviously very fond of Petrushka, yet he dresses her in as little as possible. Now either all her clothes are woven from aramids and ultra high molecular weight polyethylene, or her body offers at least some basic level of ballistic protection.

If you want Rachel to wear additional ballistic protection, more power to you. All the handlers have it in my current story and I damn near put it on Kara and Petrushka because I believe they doesn't have the protection level that the rest of the girls do. But since I need Kara to be shot in the abdomen, I had her opponent use 9x39mm steel-core bullets. They're not really armor-piercing, but they have much better penetrating power then a copper-jacketed version, to say nothing of a CJ 9x19mm Parabellum round. At a handful of meters range and fired from a submachine gun, they had more then enough velocity to penetrate her basic protection and bore nice clean holes all the way through her and out her back.

The only other option is the reflexes of the Type 2 cyborgs are so fast, they effectively operate in "bullet time" and can just twist out of the way of any incoming rounds fired at them.


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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 20:36

Yeah, baby.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Whatface on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 20:49

The point of gen2's is to provide a pair of tits.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 20:50

@Whatface wrote:The point of gen2's is to provide a pair of tits.

And that's bad?

Maybe those tits have ballistic-resistant gel in them, which is what protects them from bullets.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Awinnell on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 20:53

there are other reasons for the type 2's ,longer life span for one,the direct knowledge implantation that speeds up the training, and the SWA is pretending to be a charity helping the disabled with prosthetic implants,so the type 2 design that doesn't kill you in 5 years is a definite step in the right direction for that little subterfuge,apart from anything else the new designs are more likely to be put into civilian use,and sales of said implants would help cover the money trail of the SWA

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Whatface on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 21:02

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Whatface wrote:The point of gen2's is to provide a pair of tits.
And that's bad?

Maybe those tits have ballistic-resistant gel in them, which is what protects them from bullets.
They increase the chance of the cyborg being hit when rounding corners.

Better to have a flat chest and not get hit at all Razz

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 12 Nov 2008 - 21:04

Well it was stated one of the reasons the Type 2 are older girls is that the SWA wants to develop prosthesis that can be used with adults so they need larger body types (though Petrushka is the same height as Triela - 160cm). Also, it is the conditioning medication and chemical brainwashing that eventually kills the brain, not the prosthesis themselves. If not for the need to condition the girls to follow orders without question and erase certain (or complete) sets of memories, the Type 1's and Type 2's would likely live normal lifespans (even abnormally long ones, considering the amount of artificial organs).

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by West Nile on Thu 13 Nov 2008 - 7:07

@Kiskaloo wrote:Well it was stated one of the reasons the Type 2 are
older girls is that the SWA wants to develop prosthesis that can be
used with adults so they need larger body types (though Petrushka is
the same height as Triela - 160cm). Also, it is the conditioning
medication and chemical brainwashing that eventually kills the brain,
not the prosthesis themselves. If not for the need to condition the
girls to follow orders without question and erase certain (or complete)
sets of memories, the Type 1's and Type 2's would likely live normal
lifespans (even abnormally long ones, considering the amount of
artificial organs).

but isn't the conditioning drug similar to the ones people who had organ transplants have to take? take a look at Triela in vol 10...

@ElfenMagix wrote:This is the 'offical' (as in its in the OC Wiki) definition of the Type Generation 3 cyborg.

(As created by West Nile:)

3rd Generation cyborgs at a glance:
Seeing
all the flaws of 2nd generation the doctors in the SWA rolled in the
3rd generation of cyborgs. These cyborgs shows the rigid design of the
1st generation but with a great tone down on their abilities through
specialized abilities and not through generalized tasks. Instead of
making well rounded girls they made girls that are particularly good in
certain things. This relieves the stress of overall training and still
makes them useful.

wait does that make me the "father of the 3rd gen"?

IM NOT READY TO BE A DADDY!!!

just kidding, anyway my take of the 3rd gen pretty much covers these roles

-specialization
-less conditioning (since they need less work)
-longer life span (due to less work)
-team work reliance
-efficiency in terms of their specialization
-mediocre work in stuff they don't specialize (but possible none theless)
-less versatility (since they are specialists)

In my fic's 3rd gens play a support role with the 2nd gens and the
remaining 1st gens, unless the job is soley a sniping job, aquatic
infiltration, no light job. then a 3rd gen can work alone.

in short they have the skill and resilience of the 1st gen, and the
long lifespan of the 2nd.... i think that's pretty much what the SWA
wanted.

@emperor wrote:*Back on topic people*

You mean type 3 are stronger than type 2 ?

well let's see, here are the reasons that i made that showed that the 2nd gens are a big mistake

Petrushka- being obsesed with Sandro (well this would work both ways since this is HIS fault)
Ella- extremely bitchy and only follows orders to live...
Mina- rendered delierious by the conditioning drug...
Mina: PEEKO IS REAL!!!

so the 3rd gen is suppose to go back to the old obedient and sturdy 1st gens but still live as long as the 2nd gens

thus:
2nd gen vs 3rd gen= 3rd gen wins
1st gen vs 3rd gen= still unknown

note: even though 3rd gens are 'specialists' it still up to the handler how they would be trained.
Fei- is still a very effective room cleaner since she can "feel" all the people in the room that she just entered, whether the lights were on or not
Sophia- even though she was meant for the water, remains to be a very formidable opponent in hand-to-hand combat since her water training forces her not to use a gun.
Anica- can snipe you with a pistol... enough said

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by West Nile on Thu 13 Nov 2008 - 9:08

o yeah the wiki version of the type 3 seems too short, here's my submitted aplication to replace this, it's open to criticism

type 3 (aka The Specialist Generation) are of the SWA's Section 2 way of encompassing the mistakes made by both the Type 1 and Type 2 generation

Improvements to the Type 3 over Type 1 are:
-Lessened need for conditioning
-Less stress on the cyborg
-Enhanced Sensory Inputs. (depending on specialization)
-Enhanced Learning and long term memory.

Improvements to the Type 3 over Type 2 are:
-Better Carbon Fiber Skeleton. (similar to Type 1)
-Enhanced Sensory Inputs. (depending on specialization)
-Enhanced Learning and long term memory.
-Enhanced Reflexes and Strength over the Type 2.
-Enhanced Internal Bullet Resistance.

Type 3 Cyborg Requirements:
-Total Hands-on Instruction.
-Total Handler Interaction and Control of the unit.
-Bonding of Cyborg/Handler as a Fratello.
-Between the ages 10-17.



Seeing all the flaws of 2nd generation the doctors in the SWA rolled in the 3rd generation of cyborgs. These cyborgs shows the rigid design of the1st generation but with a great tone down on their abilities through specialized abilities and not through generalized tasks. Instead of making well rounded girls they made girls that are particularly good in certain things. This relieves the stress of overall training and still makes them useful.



Failure of the Type 3 Cyborgs.

The failure of this generation will always ironicly their advantage, their specializations. The 3rd generation will always fall victim to bad planning on the hand of their handlers where they will be forced to work outside of their specialization on short notice and will be nearly incapacitated by their inability to cope in a situation they are not trained to handle.

On a different note, affection from the cyborg remains a problem as seen the example of Sophia (1st Amphibious cyborg) who has a dangerous affection to her handler.

On a social aspect, being a "specialist" also affects a 3rd gen's attachment to pears. Sophia apears arogant and spoiled, not wanting to work with other cyborgs (which is detremental to a 3rd gen). On the other hand Fei is continously offended (intentionally and unintentionally) by other members of the SWA for her inability to see.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 13 Nov 2008 - 12:27

@West Nile wrote:but isn't the conditioning drug similar to the ones people who had organ transplants have to take? take a look at Triela in vol 10...

It has been at least implied that the organ transplants that take place are artificial, so there may not be a need for anti-rejection drugs.
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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 13 Nov 2008 - 18:25

@West Nile wrote:o yeah the wiki version of the type 3 seems too short, here's my submitted aplication to replace this, it's open to criticism

type 3 (aka The Specialist Generation) are of the SWA's Section 2 way of encompassing the mistakes made by both the Type 1 and Type 2 generation

Improvements to the Type 3 over Type 1 are:
-Lessened need for conditioning
-Less stress on the cyborg
-Enhanced Sensory Inputs. (depending on specialization)
-Enhanced Learning and long term memory.

Improvements to the Type 3 over Type 2 are:
-Better Carbon Fiber Skeleton. (similar to Type 1)
-Enhanced Sensory Inputs. (depending on specialization)
-Enhanced Learning and long term memory.
-Enhanced Reflexes and Strength over the Type 2.
-Enhanced Internal Bullet Resistance.

Type 3 Cyborg Requirements:
-Total Hands-on Instruction.
-Total Handler Interaction and Control of the unit.
-Bonding of Cyborg/Handler as a Fratello.
-Between the ages 10-17.



Seeing all the flaws of 2nd generation the doctors in the SWA rolled in the 3rd generation of cyborgs. These cyborgs shows the rigid design of the1st generation but with a great tone down on their abilities through specialized abilities and not through generalized tasks. Instead of making well rounded girls they made girls that are particularly good in certain things. This relieves the stress of overall training and still makes them useful.



Failure of the Type 3 Cyborgs.


The failure of this generation will always ironicly their advantage, their specializations. The 3rd generation will always fall victim to bad planning on the hand of their handlers where they will be forced to work outside of their specialization on short notice and will be nearly incapacitated by their inability to cope in a situation they are not trained to handle.

On a different note, affection from the cyborg remains a problem as seen the example of Sophia (1st Amphibious cyborg) who has a dangerous affection to her handler.

On a social aspect, being a "specialist" also affects a 3rd gen's attachment to pears. Sophia apears arogant and spoiled, not wanting to work with other cyborgs (which is detremental to a 3rd gen). On the other hand Fei is continously offended (intentionally and unintentionally) by other members of the SWA for her inability to see.

I love this entry a lot, West Nile. Put it up!
As for Fei- she should talk to Fernando (a 'blind handler'), who will basically tell her- "Screw them. You can do things in the dark room that the others will fear to enter eyes wide open! If they think that they are better then you- challenge them to a paint ball rally and have them all blindfolded! Then lets see who wins." Being blind, Fernando takes no shit from anyone- human, cyborg or dumb eye-seeing-dog!

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by West Nile on Fri 14 Nov 2008 - 0:19

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@West Nile wrote:but isn't the conditioning drug
similar to the ones people who had organ transplants have to take? take
a look at Triela in vol 10...

It has been at least
implied that the organ transplants that take place are artificial, so
there may not be a need for anti-rejection drugs.

Well, whenever a handler tell Jean "but conditioning shortens the life span" Jean would reply "indeed, but it also helps the cyborg use her implants as well"

@ElfenMagix wrote:
I love this entry a lot, West Nile. Put it up!
As for Fei- she should talk to Fernando (a 'blind handler'), who will basically tell her- "Screw them. You can do things in the dark room that the others will fear to enter eyes wide open! If they think that they are better then you- challenge them to a paint ball rally and have them all blindfolded! Then lets see who wins." Being blind, Fernando takes no shit from anyone- human, cyborg or dumb eye-seeing-dog!

If i have the time (which is not the case now) i'd pretty much feature a couple of chapter on how the 3rd gen copes with the other members, a large part of it is Fei getting mad at people who comments on her eye sight, and picking a fight with Sophia for intentionally mocking her for her blindness.

Mina- What's it like, being blind?
Fei- Let's put it this way, il rip your eyes out right now and u tell me what it's like!

Sophia- The stars are beautiful tonight, TOO BAD FEI CAN'T SEE THEM!
*Fwap* (rifle but to Sophia's face)
Fei- your right, why don't you tell me what it's like to "see stars"

ironicly Fei is the closest thing to Sophia as a friend (they like making fun of people, just for different reasons)

Sophia- That has to be the worst drawing of Hilshire you've ever made Ella!
Ella- IM GONNA KILL YOU!!
Fei- It does not look so bad if you ask me.
Ella- Thank you Fei... *realizes that she is blind* IM GONNA KILL BOTH OF YOU NOW!!


Last edited by West Nile on Fri 14 Nov 2008 - 0:25; edited 1 time in total

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 14 Nov 2008 - 0:21

@West Nile wrote:Well, whenever a handler tell Jean "but conditioning shortens the life span" Jean would reply "indeed, but it also helps the cyborg use her implants as well".

Fair enough. I would expect their minds would need to be programmed to understand that their augmented bodies are the new "baseline" so they don't, say, grasp an object with what they think was "normal" force for their old body and end up crushing it because that level of force in their new bodies is much higher. So I could certainly see that conditioning having an impact on their minds.
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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 14 Nov 2008 - 0:50

@West Nile wrote:If i have the time (which is not the case now) i'd pretty much feature a couple of chapter on how the 3rd gen copes with the other members, a large part of it is Fei getting mad at people who comments on her eye sight, and picking a fight with Sophia for intentionally mocking her for her blindness.

Mina- What's it like, being blind?
Fei- Let's put it this way, il rip your eyes out right now and u tell me what it's like!

Sophia- The stars are beautiful tonight, TOO BAD FEI CAN'T SEE THEM!
*Fwap* (rifle but to Sophia's face)
Fei- your right, why don't you tell me what it's like to "see stars"

ironicly Fei is the closest thing to Sophia as a friend (they like making fun of people, just for different reasons)

Sophia- That has to be the worst drawing of Hilshire you've ever made Ella!
Ella- IM GONNA KILL YOU!!
Fei- It does not look so bad if you ask me.
Ella- Thank you Fei... *realizes that she is blind* IM GONNA KILL BOTH OF YOU NOW!!

Sounds like a lot of teenage angst going on there.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by West Nile on Fri 14 Nov 2008 - 1:00

@ElfenMagix wrote:
@West Nile wrote:If i have the time (which is not the case now) i'd pretty much feature a couple of chapter on how the 3rd gen copes with the other members, a large part of it is Fei getting mad at people who comments on her eye sight, and picking a fight with Sophia for intentionally mocking her for her blindness.

Mina- What's it like, being blind?
Fei- Let's put it this way, il rip your eyes out right now and u tell me what it's like!

Sophia- The stars are beautiful tonight, TOO BAD FEI CAN'T SEE THEM!
*Fwap* (rifle but to Sophia's face)
Fei- your right, why don't you tell me what it's like to "see stars"

ironicly Fei is the closest thing to Sophia as a friend (they like making fun of people, just for different reasons)

Sophia- That has to be the worst drawing of Hilshire you've ever made Ella!
Ella- IM GONNA KILL YOU!!
Fei- It does not look so bad if you ask me.
Ella- Thank you Fei... *realizes that she is blind* IM GONNA KILL BOTH OF YOU NOW!!

Sounds like a lot of teenage angst going on there.

Well teenage is not really the word, my oldest girl is 16 (i think) it's pretty much the drama of a girl being made into a cyborg and how they react to being one.

Sophia pretty much "that makes me a god now!". Anica is "the world gave me a second chance ^_^". Fei is "What second chance! im still blind!". Ella "they dragged be back into this god forsaken world just to be made to kill people". Mina "have you seen Peeko?"

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by emperor on Fri 14 Nov 2008 - 9:55

Sophia pretty much "that makes me a god now!". Anica is "the world gave me a second chance ^_^". Fei is "What second chance! im still blind!". Ella "they dragged be back into this god forsaken world just to be made to kill people". Mina "have you seen Peeko?"

Group of weird girls Razz

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 14 Nov 2008 - 18:06

@West Nile wrote:Fei is "What second chance! im still blind!"
Why is she blind in the first place?
SWA Technology has artificial eyes, as proven by Triela when she lost one to Pino and they put one back in.
If Fei was sighted and then became blind, then her visual cortex would be developed and an artificial eye can be put in to restore sight.
If Fei was blind from birth, then her visual cortex would have never developed and an artificial eye would not be able to put in to restore sight.

I only see this possibility in the latter, and not the former.
Besides- being 'visually handicapped', blindness at not a handicap for one who has been for such a long time. There are other ways of seeing, and Fei would be at this level. And Fernando can tell her, she is not missing much.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 14 Nov 2008 - 19:29

WestNile- I was going to put it up today as I was fixing up some OCWiki posts, but noticed that you beaten me to it Very Happy

So, I did some formatting changes and spell checking for you.
Looks Great!
Less Filling!
Who Said That!

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by West Nile on Wed 19 Nov 2008 - 6:24

@ElfenMagix wrote:
@West Nile wrote:Fei is "What second chance! im still blind!"
Why is she blind in the first place?
SWA Technology has artificial eyes, as proven by Triela when she lost one to Pino and they put one back in.
If Fei was sighted and then became blind, then her visual cortex would be developed and an artificial eye can be put in to restore sight.
If Fei was blind from birth, then her visual cortex would have never developed and an artificial eye would not be able to put in to restore sight.

I only see this possibility in the latter, and not the former.
Besides- being 'visually handicapped', blindness at not a handicap for one who has been for such a long time. There are other ways of seeing, and Fei would be at this level. And Fernando can tell her, she is not missing much.

Well Fei's handler, Iroh together with his dead girlfriend (who wasn't dead at the time) formulated this method for blind people to see through hearing and vibrations. when his girlfriend (who is blind by the way) died, he formulated the system into a military application, soldiers that have eyes at the back of their heads, but the military thinks he just a fraud and rejected his offer. so he goes around the world giving this "training" to people who found out about him and availed of it (intelligence agencies, gangs, terrorists) this is when the SWA found him and told him to apply the same thing to 3rd gen girl. however, Iroh believed that blind people can learn the system faster based on experience, thus when he picked the blind girl in the hospital he told the surgeons "keep her blind"

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 19 Nov 2008 - 17:27

That explains Iroh, but not Fei.
Again, was she born blind or was she later bind in life- whether by disease or accident?

Sorry for Nitpicking; courious minds want to know.

BTW: Fernnando was blinded later in life in his early teens by accident. Though he regained much of his sight back, he still has limitations.

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by West Nile on Thu 20 Nov 2008 - 10:33

http://gunslinger-girl.up-with.com/dossiers-f15/swa-dorm-rooms-section-west-nile-t706.htm#32892 wrote:As far as Fei can remember (or according to Iroh) she was a girl blind at birth and rejected by her parents. She spent her life in an orphanage for handicaped children, knowing nothing but the dark and loving nothing but her brail sketch pad. It was at this state that Iroh, who was recruited by the SWA by then, chose her to be his cyborg.

Fei is blind as a bat... literally, she can't see with her eyes but can see just fine with her other senses... unless the object is suspended (she needs the ground)

Fei and Fernando can pretty much get along in that sense, she's pretty much "seeing is OVER RATED" though there are times she would be curious about the world she can't see at times "What's so cool about porn anyway?"

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by emperor on Thu 20 Nov 2008 - 10:56

there are times she would be curious about the world she can't see at times "What's so cool about porn anyway?"

Laughing

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 20 Nov 2008 - 18:32

Thank you for explaining it all...

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Re: What is cyborg type 3 ?

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