Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

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Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by emperor on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 5:05

If the relationships between the girls and their handers thus far can be characterized as brother-sister, master-slave, and father-daughter, then Captain Rabaro and Claes are teacher and student.

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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by Nachtsider on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 6:45

Initially, at least. Claes eventually regarded Raballo as a father figure - witness how close they became over time, how badly she was affected by his death, and the way she retained vestigial memories of him as her 'father' after being reconditioned.

Marco and Angie would be father and daughter as well, while Giuseppe and Henrietta would be the brother and sister. I wouldn't classify Jean and Rico as master and slave - pigeonholing Elsa and Lauro that way would be more appropriate, for I feel Jean's more an impersonal guardian than anything else. Triela and Hillshire's relationship, on the other hand, I can only describe as 'complex'.
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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by LoC978 on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 11:28

Jean's more an impersonal guardian than anything else
and harsh instructor. I always saw them as martial arts master/most prized student.

as for Claes and Raballo... I agree that their relationship went through a few metamorphoses. from teacher/student to uncle/neice and finally to father/daughter. and that's how she subconsciously remembers his advice, philosophies and training: as coming from her father.

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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 11:39

Complex is the least one can say about Triela & Hillshire (lol!).

Nachtsider is right on Claes and Rabello, with as complex father/daughter relationships can be, theirs is probably one of the closest of the Fretello groups. With them, I can see Rabello keeping Claes' condiction to a minimum, but needing to be condictioned when needed (or tricked into it- as I believe Claes' second rewrite was after the gun range incident).

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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by LoC978 on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 11:42

(or tricked into it- as I believe Claes' second rewrite was after the gun range incident).
I always got the feeling that he just didn't want to know anything about that part of the job, and he viewed Jean as 'the expert' in such matters. So he simply let Jean handle the decisions regarding conditioning.
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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 13:33

LoC978 wrote:
(or tricked into it- as I believe Claes' second rewrite was after the gun range incident).
I always got the feeling that he just didn't want to know anything about that part of the job, and he viewed Jean as 'the expert' in such matters. So he simply let Jean handle the decisions regarding conditioning.

I get that feeling too, but Jean give him no options and from that I believed that he did something that he was unsure it was the right thing to do. Thats why I think he was tricked into that decision. If he would have went to Jose first- after the incident, and see that Jose was not going to allow Henrietta to be rewritten, Rabello would have done the same. Rabello is the type to leads by example, but also follows by example.
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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by Wileama on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 16:31

LoC978 wrote:I always saw them as martial arts master/most prized student.
My only problem with that is the word 'prized'. He doesn't prize Rico, he uses her. I realize Jean has some feelings for Rico. Still I can't see him much past jack ass. Fuck he hit her, and I doubt it was a one time thing. Just, because he's trying to get away from his feelings for his sister doesn't mean he can be a complete asshole.

LoC978 wrote:as for Claes and Raballo... I agree that their relationship went through a few metamorphoses. from teacher/student to uncle/neice and finally to father/daughter. and that's how she subconsciously remembers his advice, philosophies and training: as coming from her father.
Ditto on the metamorphoses.

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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by Nachtsider on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 16:42

Regarding Jean hitting Rico, you've got to realize that there are always two sides to a story. One should consider the possible circumstances under which that incident took place. Jean's corporal punishment of Rico may very well have stemmed from an incident similar to that involving Rabaro, Claes, Giuseppe and Henrietta in Episode Five of the anime, in which Rabaro hit Henrietta for carelessly looking down the barrel of a jammed gun and nearly killing herself by doing so.

Whether Jean might have acted that way out of genuine love for Rico or out of not wanting to lose a valuable weapon is another story, however. If you ask me, I say the truth lies somewhere between these two extremes.

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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 17:00

Nachtsider wrote:Regarding Jean hitting Rico, you've got to realize that there are always two sides to a story. One should consider the possible circumstances under which that incident took place. Jean's corporal punishment of Rico may very well have stemmed from an incident similar to that involving Rabaro, Claes, Giuseppe and Henrietta in Episode Five of the anime, in which Rabaro hit Henrietta for carelessly looking down the barrel of a jammed gun and nearly killing herself by doing so.

Whether Jean might have done so out of genuine love for Rico or out of not wanting to lose a valuable weapon is another story, however. If you ask me, I say the truth lies somewhere between these two extremes.

No matter what people say, Jean ain't a schmuck.

Considering Jeans actions, Jean has a lot of issues to deal with and he should have some understanding towards Ricco. He should remember that wen he received her from the hospital, this is a girl what never left her hospital bed. She may never have had walked a step in her life, never lifted a spoon for her to feed herself, only learned from those around her- the educational system for a hospitalized child is very limited and what educational oppertunities that are there are less than minimal at best. Instead- Jean is very harsh to Ricco from all level. He makes unrational demands of her, often calling her useless.

In episode 2 of the amine, he had her scout the back of a hotel by herself. If all the times she may have done, it is the only time in which she may have done so in her existence. If she got distracted, then he should understand why and not be calling her useless as he did. In episode 10 (the investigation of the Elsa incident by Section 1) he has her at his side and had grabbed the back of her neck as if he was showing off a doll. He also spoke for her when she was questioned by Section 1: "they are to die for their handlers..."

In the Manga, when Ricco fell into the water and Jean had to dive in after her, he was not happy with having to save her.

Due to her condiction before coming into the SWA, Ricco must have been through a very extensive nuero programming and condictioning process- for a normal person to lose a limb and have it replaced, they can easily adopt. But for Ricco-who never had these things, babies take 4 years how to master their abilities of locomotion, agility and grasping. How long did Ricco take?
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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by LoC978 on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 18:16

in what martial art has a master not (traditionally) beat the blithering shit out of his students to toughen them up? and who do they beat hardest? the ones with the most promise.
ElfenMagix wrote:Considering Jeans actions, Jean has a lot of issues to deal with and he should have some understanding towards Ricco. He should remember that wen he received her from the hospital, this is a girl what never left her hospital bed. She may never have had walked a step in her life, never lifted a spoon for her to feed herself, only learned from those around her-
I had the feeling that this is exactly why he chose her. she was a blank slate, without even any muscle memory to unlearn. that's why he tells Raballo that Rico adapted to her prosthetics faster than the others (vol 2, page 8.)
ElfenMagix wrote:the educational system for a hospitalized child is very limited and what educational oppertunities that are there are less than minimal at best. Instead- Jean is very harsh to Ricco from all level. He makes unrational demands of her
It's a harsh world they're in. He's just making sure she's not too soft to survive it for long (she's only useless if she's dead).
ElfenMagix wrote: often calling her useless.
the only disparaging remark of that type I can think of is when he says "She's incapable of doing anything by herself" to Marco while they're waiting. and that's strictly in the anime, that little cutscene didn't happen in the manga. The only thing he says in the manga is "You're late." when she gets back, then he tells her to kill anyone who sees her on the job.
ElfenMagix wrote:In the Manga, when Ricco fell into the water and Jean had to dive in after her, he was not happy with having to save her.
he did look a little pissed. but he was genuinely concerned for her well-being when he dove in, thinking she got hit... and then he rewarded her for a job well done:
http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif
http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif
http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif
ElfenMagix wrote:Due to her condiction before coming into the SWA, Ricco must have been through a very extensive nuero programming and condictioning process- for a normal person to lose a limb and have it replaced, they can easily adopt. But for Ricco-who never had these things, babies take 4 years how to master their abilities of locomotion, agility and grasping. How long did Ricco take?
She must have been able to move at least a little, because she took less time than any of the others (again, vol 2, page eight).
here we go. she could move:
http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome

someone who edits wikipedia medical stuff wrote:Patients report critical reductions in levels of physical activity[38] with the severity of symptoms and disability the same in both genders[39]; but despite a common diagnosis, the functional capacity of CFS patients varies greatly.[40], and chronic pain is strongly disabling in CFS patients.[35] According to the CDC [41][42], studies show that the disability in CFS patients is comparable to some well-known, very severe medical conditions, such as; multiple sclerosis, AIDS, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, heart disease, end-stage renal disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) and similar chronic conditions. While some patients are able to lead a relatively normal life, others are totally bed-bound and unable to care for themselves
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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 20:36

Excellent disection of my post, LoC :twisted:
I thought I never would be the frog on the disecting pan in this forum! Laughing

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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by LoC978 on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 22:09

what can I say? I like dissecting things...
and I must defend my favorite fratello, so long as reason is on my side. (semi-fanboyitis)

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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 23:56

Touché...

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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 12 Oct 2007 - 0:11

LoC978 wrote:(semi-fanboyitis)

The 'fan condition' has been revealed to be an inflammatory ailment. Amazing.
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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by emperor on Fri 12 Oct 2007 - 2:52

In the Manga, when Ricco fell into the water and Jean had to dive in after her, he was not happy with having to save her.

After that he applause Rico for done a good job today and let her play around. That's a good end.

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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by emperor on Fri 12 Oct 2007 - 2:55

when he says "She's incapable of doing anything by herself" to Marco while they're waiting. and that's strictly in the anime, that little cutscene didn't happen in the manga.

It is happen in manga,I swear.

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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by LoC978 on Fri 12 Oct 2007 - 3:12

*rereads the chapter slowly*
ack! you're right. 2 cells on page 58 that I overlooked. but it's not Marco in the manga... odd. anyway, I rescind my earlier statement. here's a corrected one:
the only disparaging remark of that type I can think of is when he says "She's incapable of doing anything by herself" to Marco (or some other guy in the manga) while they're waiting for her to get done being talked to by Emilio.

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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 12 Oct 2007 - 3:39

The one to whom Jean uttered that line was Alphonso.
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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by Danjo3 on Fri 12 Oct 2007 - 4:36

Nachtsider wrote:The one to whom Jean uttered that line was Alphonso.
You are correct sir.

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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 12 Oct 2007 - 5:55

*tips four-cornered hood* Thank you, sir.
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Re: Captain Rabaro and Claes : Father - daughter?

Post by boomer_gonz on Mon 15 Oct 2007 - 10:36

Okay, 'stime to toss in some change and this current topic of discussion!

LoC978 wrote:in what martial art has a master not (traditionally) beat the blithering shit out of his students to toughen them up? and who do they beat hardest? the ones with the most promise.

I can vouch for that. Although my grandma never actually struck me(probably would've killed me) she had no enmity against tossing me 10-15 feet. Her philosophy was "Throws and slams hurt more than actual hits. If you can get used to those you'll be able to take whatever anybody throws your way. Even more so when she turned me over to Master Yoshii Jun-Pei. Ever try to do 50 Persian Pushups, 50 "Morning glories", 50 squat-thrusts, and 50 Back-chrunches with no rest in between while locked in a sheet-metal sweat box?

As far as Jean goes, I do in fact have an appreciation for the Jean/Rico fratello, even though I nearly killed Jean in my last update. Jean's reaction though seem to me as if the man has some innner frustration he's trying to deal with. Almost as if he's angry; because in his eyes she isn't better than a certain cyborg from the past. Wink

Oh, after organizing (or at least trying to) my CD collection I ran across this song from one of my favorite bands of all time, Betty Blowtorch. I think it fits so many themes within GSG. Especially the situation we call The Elsa Factor.

http://boomergonz.imeem.com/music/kVFIUOS_/betty_blowtorch_lovehate/
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