"Useless" Firearms

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"Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Tue 07 Jul 2009, 22:01

What other useless guns other than the Desert Eagle exist?.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by rusty-spring on Tue 07 Jul 2009, 22:19

I think useless depends the situation, lol. Razz

Like I believe a sniper rifle would be useless for CQB, just like a handgun is worthless for long range marksmanship. But I agree, the Desert Eagle is probably not useful is most tactical situations.

Also, may I suggest you post your OC character's information in the OC Dossier Section (Click for a link) of the forum? That way you won't need to have such a massive side bar in your posts. Razz

I see you're new so you probably didn't notice that section existed. Welcome to the forum! Smile

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 07 Jul 2009, 22:22

The Type 94 Shiki-Kenju. What a load of garbage.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Tue 07 Jul 2009, 22:55

@rusty-spring wrote:I think useless depends the situation, lol. Razz

Like I believe a sniper rifle would be useless for CQB, just like a handgun is worthless for long range marksmanship. But I agree, the Desert Eagle is probably not useful is most tactical situations.

Also, may I suggest you post your OC character's information in the OC Dossier Section (Click for a link) of the forum? That way you won't need to have such a massive side bar in your posts. Razz

I see you're new so you probably didn't notice that section existed. Welcome to the forum! Smile

Actualy a pistol can reach out to 200 yards! I have done it even though its hard. But I mean what other guns are useless?.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Tue 07 Jul 2009, 22:57

@Nachtsider wrote:The Type 94 Shiki-Kenju. What a load of garbage.

Well the 94 is an ugly gun but still more usefull than a Deagle.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by maverick375 on Tue 07 Jul 2009, 23:53

What other useless guns other than the Desert Eagle exist?.

-Any gun that is empty. (except a Mosin 91/30)
-Any gun that is stored with a trigger lock.
-99% of handguns that fire 22LR.
-Any gun that uses uncommon ammunition. Eg 9mmSuper, Nagant Revolver, 45GAP, etc...
-Any deringer that fires a rifle caliber, i.e. 45-70Government.

As stated above, you pick a gun for a situation. If you know you're going into combat, you take a rifle. For CQB, you use an SMG or shotgun. For concealment, backup, you use a pistol. For desperation, you use a small pistol.

The effectiveness of an ammo, and it's availiability, should be carefully considered for a story. The Tokarev round fired from the TT-33 pistol is a wicked man-stopper ballistically, but how common is the ammo in an area?
Here you can get surplus or load your own, and that's pretty much it. Most of that surplus is good, but would you trust your life to it? Is that ammo availiable to a different place?

Many countries limit their people to weapons that are chambered in a non-military caliber (9x19mm, 40S&W, 45ACP, etc) such as the 380ACP and 32cals, so the every ammo isn't just lying around.
From a story standpoint, I know there's at least a few writers here that are thankful for the SWA's military supply lines.

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Glocks are not the shit. Glocks can fail the same as any other gun. I've seen it personally, and have even heard first-hand accounts of something as basic as a slide-retaining pin snapping, the slide flying off. Get over the obsession and buy what fits your hand, your wallet, and ability.
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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 00:02

Any gun that you can put into your hand, point, shoot and take down a target is not useless. You do have to know its limitations and its abilities as a weapon. Even an empty gun in the right hand is still useful, if not deadly.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by sasahara17 on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 03:36

I'm no expert on guns, but I have to concur with Elfen here. Any gun in the right hands and under the right circumstances can become a deadly weapon. Still I can see how guns using uncommon ammo would be hard to use.

But then again, I've never owned a gun before (I'm Singaporean, living in Australia for study). Maybe' I'll sing a different tune wonce I've done my two years.

...but since were on the topic, how about replica airsoft guns or BB guns? I heard they still can be dangerous under the right circumstances, but cosidering that they're for civilain use... I'd imagine bring a replica along to a situation where an actual firearm was needed would be a potentially fatal disaster.

*Now imagining Triela drawing her 'trusty SiG' in a huge firefight only to discover it only fires BBs.*

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by MikhailN on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 04:37

Let me tell you something that happened to me.

Before I joined the army and took up long range shooting, I was into IPSC (Practical Pistol) and once we had this competition. There was a novice shooting a Colt 1911 on that course and singing praises about it, about how it was so damn good and how impossible it was to do that course under 10sec. I was so cheesed off that I went to the armoury, drew an old Glock (I don't know what model it was, only on the side were the words Glock) and went to the course. I can still remember that he was still laughing at me for using such an old weapon and how unreliable a Glock was etc etc. So at the beep I drew and started hosing targets and when I came back he was, like, Guh? . My timing was 9.8sec.

Moral of the story: Weapons are important, but sometimes uber good skills are more important

@ElfenMagix wrote:Any gun that you can put into your hand, point,
shoot and take down a target is not useless. You do have to know its
limitations and its abilities as a weapon. Even an empty gun in the
right hand is still useful, if not deadly.

You know I sing pretty much the same tune as you on this matter...

@sasahara17 wrote:I'm no expert on guns, but I have to concur with Elfen here. Any gun in the right hands and under the right circumstances can become a deadly weapon. Still I can see how guns using uncommon ammo would be hard to use.

But then again, I've never owned a gun before (I'm Singaporean, living in Australia for study). Maybe' I'll sing a different tune wonce I've done my two years.

...but since were on the topic, how about replica airsoft guns or BB guns? I heard they still can be dangerous under the right circumstances, but cosidering that they're for civilain use... I'd imagine bring a replica along to a situation where an actual firearm was needed would be a potentially fatal disaster.

*Now imagining Triela drawing her 'trusty SiG' in a huge firefight only to discover it only fires BBs.*

Oh you don't know. Once there was a fight in a bar where some chap was hitting people with a stick (I think it was the one you use to play billiard with). Me and my buddy walked over, splashed beer in his face and restrained him before he could recover. If beer can do that what can a replica do?

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 11:51

Beer has alcohol, which splashed to the face would burn the eyes... NICELY DONE!

A gun is a gun is a gun. Just like MikailN shot the targets with the Glock (Old Glocks tend to be Glock 17s) in 9.8 seconds, the same can be done with the 1911. Correct me if I'm wrong, MikailN, but aren't competition shooting guns have lighten triggers? I'm remembering this to be a fact for at least US Competitions, where a Stock gun have on average a 10 pound (about 4kg) trigger pull and competition guns have it at 1/2 that. The fastest competition shooter that I know (Jerry Miculek) has his guns' triggers lighten to even less that! 1911's have an 8 pound or 10 pound trigger pull, depending on who makes it. It can be lighten to about 4 pounds.

Oddball ammo is another issue. Oddball ammo has nothing to do with the uselessness of a gun. You have ammo, you can shoot, it is that simple. I remember some British War in the late 1800's where the troops were fighting Mulisms (Or Hindus?), and they ran out of Ammo. In the middle of the battle field, there was a large lead statue. The troops sent a couple of scouts to descrate the statue to break pieces off it to make Ball Ammo from it. They were captures, tortured and told what they were going to do to the statue. The enemy was so mortified at this thought- they gave the Brits 1/2 of their own ball ammo to continue the fighting so that the statue would be left alone! The battle ended in a draw as both sides ran out of ammo the next day. History is funny like that.

I can understand the issue of availability of ammo, but if you are going to a battle field, or you carry for protection, you carry what you think is enough to do your job. If you got a gun with oddball ammo, you usually have a source of ammo for it. For the .32NAA, you can order it directly from the manufacturer: Car-Bon. (Note- North American Arms ACP/Guardian versions of the same gun uses regular .38, .32, and, 25 ammo, only the .32NAA and .25NAA uses the oddball necked down Car-Bon Ammo.)

Personally, when I used to carry (for the job or self protection), I always had 3 magazines- 1 in the gun and 2 spares. To me, I thought this was enough for my needs. Now when my friends and I go to the range... We bring a few thousand rounds to fire off! Evil

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by MikhailN on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 17:01

@ElfenMagix wrote:A gun is a gun is a gun. Just like MikailN shot the targets with the Glock (Old Glocks tend to be Glock 17s) in 9.8 seconds, the same can be done with the 1911. Correct me if I'm wrong, MikailN, but aren't competition shooting guns have lighten triggers? I'm remembering this to be a fact for at least US Competitions, where a Stock gun have on average a 10 pound (about 4kg) trigger pull and competition guns have it at 1/2 that. The fastest competition shooter that I know (Jerry Miculek) has his guns' triggers lighten to even less that! 1911's have an 8 pound or 10 pound trigger pull, depending on who makes it. It can be lighten to about 4 pounds.

Yes, we did tune the triggers to our liking like light second stage, heavy first stage but that one was fresh out of the armoury i.e. no tuning done.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by sasahara17 on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 17:17

@MikhailN wrote:Oh you don't know. Once there was a fight in a bar where some chap was hitting people with a stick...Me and my buddy walked over, splashed beer in his face and restrained him before he could recover. If beer can do that what can a replica do?
*jaw drops*

I stand corrected. Wow, what a way to use Beer. I'll have to remember that.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 17:24

@sasahara17 wrote:*Now imagining Triela drawing her 'trusty SiG' in a huge firefight only to discover it only fires BBs.*
An airsoft gun is supposed to fire a BB anywhere between 150ft/sec and 300ft/sec; which in and of itself is dangerous and can cause harm. But many can supercharge their guns to shoot 700ft/sec and faster (accordiing to Tsu, our resident Airsoft Master), and that there is already approaching ballistic range- and can be deadly.

So I can image Triela taking out a SiG, discovering that it only shoots BB and then starts to make head shots at all her targets.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 17:33

Lets see if this works:



If its working (I'm getting that BIG Q in the school's computers), there should be a controller bar. Press play, its a recording of Jerry Miculek doing 6 shots (from his revolver!) in under 2.8 seconds.

Think about it... 2.8 seconds with a revolver!!!
The 'tink!' in the background is the bullets hitting the target.

There is no such thing as useless gun. There are just idiots who does not know what to do with what they got!
(No offense to anyone here.)


Last edited by ElfenMagix on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 17:41; edited 2 times in total

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by sasahara17 on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 17:38

@ElfenMagix wrote:So I can image Triela taking out a SiG, discovering that it only shoots
BB and then starts to make head shots at all her targets.
That sounds like something Triela would do. She'd still grumble about the whole thing afterword, but shooting people in the head with BB (especially in the eyes) is going to hurt. Alot.

...maybe if you do want to get her in a raging fit, you could give her a replica SiG water pistol? But hell, I bet the thing is heavy enough it would be used for one good throw.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 17:44

@sasahara17 wrote:...maybe if you do want to get her in a raging fit, you could give her a replica SiG water pistol? But hell, I bet the thing is heavy enough it would be used for one good throw.
A water gun? You want Triela in a 'roid rage? voodoo doll Evil

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by sasahara17 on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 17:50

@ElfenMagix wrote:A water gun? You want Triela in a 'roid rage?
Nah, just wanna see how much it would take to make the Tuscan Princes go 'Oh Shit' while staring at her (fake) gun. Considering she is an expert martial artist, the most independent cyborg the SWA has, and an overall badass, I'm just curious what it would take for her to pause and stare dumbly with that priceless expression on her face.

Guess I found it tho'. Razz

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 18:13

@maverick375 wrote:
What other useless guns other than the Desert Eagle exist?.

-Any gun that is empty. (except a Mosin 91/30)
-Any gun that is stored with a trigger lock.
-99% of handguns that fire 22LR.
-Any gun that uses uncommon ammunition. Eg 9mmSuper, Nagant Revolver, 45GAP, etc...
-Any deringer that fires a rifle caliber, i.e. 45-70Government.

As stated above, you pick a gun for a situation. If you know you're going into combat, you take a rifle. For CQB, you use an SMG or shotgun. For concealment, backup, you use a pistol. For desperation, you use a small pistol.

The effectiveness of an ammo, and it's availiability, should be carefully considered for a story. The Tokarev round fired from the TT-33 pistol is a wicked man-stopper ballistically, but how common is the ammo in an area?
Here you can get surplus or load your own, and that's pretty much it. Most of that surplus is good, but would you trust your life to it? Is that ammo availiable to a different place?

Many countries limit their people to weapons that are chambered in a non-military caliber (9x19mm, 40S&W, 45ACP, etc) such as the 380ACP and 32cals, so the every ammo isn't just lying around.
From a story standpoint, I know there's at least a few writers here that are thankful for the SWA's military supply lines.

Well I think you hit dead-on exept for the .22LR caliber thing becuase a .22LR can stop a deer and if it can stop dear it can stop a human being and yes I speak from experience (no not killing experience, I own firearms ). Its easy to see why:

A .40gr .22LR caliber round traveling at 1,200 fet per second (or more common 1,101-1,010 feet per second) will generate about 180-190 foot pounds of energy.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 18:16

@ElfenMagix wrote:Any gun that you can put into your hand, point, shoot and take down a target is not useless. You do have to know its limitations and its abilities as a weapon. Even an empty gun in the right hand is still useful, if not deadly.

Well I dont just mean to kill, I mean for practical use and even in a tactical or self-defence scenario a Deagle (in any caliber) a is preety useless, expensive noicemaker becuase of size, handling, and caliber wich are not intended for that use.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 18:20

@sasahara17 wrote:I'm no expert on guns, but I have to concur with Elfen here. Any gun in the right hands and under the right circumstances can become a deadly weapon. Still I can see how guns using uncommon ammo would be hard to use.

But then again, I've never owned a gun before (I'm Singaporean, living in Australia for study). Maybe' I'll sing a different tune wonce I've done my two years.

...but since were on the topic, how about replica airsoft guns or BB guns? I heard they still can be dangerous under the right circumstances, but cosidering that they're for civilain use... I'd imagine bring a replica along to a situation where an actual firearm was needed would be a potentially fatal disaster.

*Now imagining Triela drawing her 'trusty SiG' in a huge firefight only to discover it only fires BBs.*

Well there are other uses of a firearm other than killing. I shoot competitevly and I would never point a firearm at anybody.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 18:29

@MikhailN wrote:Let me tell you something that happened to me.

Before I joined the army and took up long range shooting, I was into IPSC (Practical Pistol) and once we had this competition. There was a novice shooting a Colt 1911 on that course and singing praises about it, about how it was so damn good and how impossible it was to do that course under 10sec. I was so cheesed off that I went to the armoury, drew an old Glock (I don't know what model it was, only on the side were the words Glock) and went to the course. I can still remember that he was still laughing at me for using such an old weapon and how unreliable a Glock was etc etc. So at the beep I drew and started hosing targets and when I came back he was, like, Guh? . My timing was 9.8sec.

Moral of the story: Weapons are important, but sometimes uber good skills are more important

@ElfenMagix wrote:Any gun that you can put into your hand, point,
shoot and take down a target is not useless. You do have to know its
limitations and its abilities as a weapon. Even an empty gun in the
right hand is still useful, if not deadly.

You know I sing pretty much the same tune as you on this matter...

@sasahara17 wrote:I'm no expert on guns, but I have to concur with Elfen here. Any gun in the right hands and under the right circumstances can become a deadly weapon. Still I can see how guns using uncommon ammo would be hard to use.

But then again, I've never owned a gun before (I'm Singaporean, living in Australia for study). Maybe' I'll sing a different tune wonce I've done my two years.

...but since were on the topic, how about replica airsoft guns or BB guns? I heard they still can be dangerous under the right circumstances, but cosidering that they're for civilain use... I'd imagine bring a replica along to a situation where an actual firearm was needed would be a potentially fatal disaster.

*Now imagining Triela drawing her 'trusty SiG' in a huge firefight only to discover it only fires BBs.*

Oh you don't know. Once there was a fight in a bar where some chap was hitting people with a stick (I think it was the one you use to play billiard with). Me and my buddy walked over, splashed beer in his face and restrained him before he could recover. If beer can do that what can a replica do?

Stupidity with firearms is something I dont accept. One time I was at the range and there was this guy (18 year old punk) with blue died hair shooting 2 Glocks (one was a model 22 and the other a 17) duel-wielding from the 7 yard line. Nobody else was there and I went up to the guy to tell him that this is not acceptable. He reloaded and turned around and saw me and while (accidently) pointing the gun at me he said " Whant a try dude?" I acted instantly and grabed both guns from him and unloaded them, I told him to get out of the range for his dumbness and if it were not becuase I had the MK1 in my holster he would have told me something along the lines of:

"Who the hell do you think you are you kid to be ordering me around."

I hate people like that.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 18:35

@ElfenMagix wrote:Beer has alcohol, which splashed to the face would burn the eyes... NICELY DONE!

A gun is a gun is a gun. Just like MikailN shot the targets with the Glock (Old Glocks tend to be Glock 17s) in 9.8 seconds, the same can be done with the 1911. Correct me if I'm wrong, MikailN, but aren't competition shooting guns have lighten triggers? I'm remembering this to be a fact for at least US Competitions, where a Stock gun have on average a 10 pound (about 4kg) trigger pull and competition guns have it at 1/2 that. The fastest competition shooter that I know (Jerry Miculek) has his guns' triggers lighten to even less that! 1911's have an 8 pound or 10 pound trigger pull, depending on who makes it. It can be lighten to about 4 pounds.

Oddball ammo is another issue. Oddball ammo has nothing to do with the uselessness of a gun. You have ammo, you can shoot, it is that simple. I remember some British War in the late 1800's where the troops were fighting Mulisms (Or Hindus?), and they ran out of Ammo. In the middle of the battle field, there was a large lead statue. The troops sent a couple of scouts to descrate the statue to break pieces off it to make Ball Ammo from it. They were captures, tortured and told what they were going to do to the statue. The enemy was so mortified at this thought- they gave the Brits 1/2 of their own ball ammo to continue the fighting so that the statue would be left alone! The battle ended in a draw as both sides ran out of ammo the next day. History is funny like that.

I can understand the issue of availability of ammo, but if you are going to a battle field, or you carry for protection, you carry what you think is enough to do your job. If you got a gun with oddball ammo, you usually have a source of ammo for it. For the .32NAA, you can order it directly from the manufacturer: Car-Bon. (Note- North American Arms ACP/Guardian versions of the same gun uses regular .38, .32, and, 25 ammo, only the .32NAA and .25NAA uses the oddball necked down Car-Bon Ammo.)

Personally, when I used to carry (for the job or self protection), I always had 3 magazines- 1 in the gun and 2 spares. To me, I thought this was enough for my needs. Now when my friends and I go to the range... We bring a few thousand rounds to fire off! Evil

Actually Jerry Miculek is the worls fastest revolver shooter and no he leaves his guns stock with 12 pound triger pulls (ahhh if I were imortal like him!).

Yea we do lighten our trigers since its more accurate that way.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 18:47

Resent anime fan wrote:Stupidity with firearms is something I dont accept. One time I was at the range and there was this guy (18 year old punk) with blue died hair shooting 2 Glocks (one was a model 22 and the other a 17) duel-wielding from the 7 yard line. Nobody else was there and I went up to the guy to tell him that this is not acceptable. He reloaded and turned around and saw me and while (accidently) pointing the gun at me he said " Whant a try dude?" I acted instantly and grabed both guns from him and unloaded them, I told him to get out of the range for his dumbness and if it were not becuase I had the MK1 in my holster he would have told me something along the lines of:

"Who the hell do you think you are you kid to be ordering me around."

I hate people like that.
I would have shot him in the head. Or put my fist through his mouth. Let the video tape show the court who acted as what!
You're a bigger man in acting so calmly in that situation- that I will admit!

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by MikhailN on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 18:51

Resent anime fan wrote:Well I dont just mean to kill, I mean for practical use and even in a tactical or self-defence scenario a Deagle (in any caliber) a is preety useless, expensive noicemaker becuase of size, handling, and caliber wich are not intended for that use.

Sad to say, the moment you draw your firearm you have to be prepared to use it to take a life, even in self-defence. No one wants to take a life, though there are idiots who say they don't mind. I've been deployed during my term in the armed forces and I assure you, once me and my buddy chambered our
rounds we were praying like anything that the order to open fire would never come through.

Resent anime fan wrote:Actually Jerry Miculek
is the worls fastest revolver shooter and no he leaves his guns stock with 12 pound triger pulls (ahhh if I were imortal like him!).

Yea we do lighten our trigers since its more accurate that way.

Lighter triggers aren't the whole story. 10m air rifles don't need to have a minimum weight so you guys drop the weight all the way. 10m airpistols need to hold a 500g weight so it becomes a bit different. What I prefer is a crisp trigger (1st pressure about the same and the 2nd) so once you get to the 2nd pressure it's about time to shoot. For practical pistol there's no requirement but the 2nd pressure must be higher for safety purposes.

Also, if the trigger is too light you'd be in big trouble once cold weather sets in. Your finger is less sensitive and well, try not to misfire cheers

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 18:55

Resent anime fan wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:Any gun that you can put into your hand, point, shoot and take down a target is not useless. You do have to know its limitations and its abilities as a weapon. Even an empty gun in the right hand is still useful, if not deadly.

Well I dont just mean to kill, I mean for practical use and even in a tactical or self-defence scenario a Deagle (in any caliber) a is preety useless, expensive noicemaker becuase of size, handling, and caliber wich are not intended for that use.
I would beg to differ, but thats just opinion. So we'll end it there...

People think that guns are just for killing, it is not. You and I (and many others here) know that you can use a firearm and not intend to kill when using it. In fact my OC Juanita is just that. She shoots to injure or maime, not kill and as of yet as not killed. She does spent a lot of time at the range so to keep her aim straight and true for that reason.

Another thing- people forget that when you are out in the woods, and need a fire, guns are a good source for a flame. Empty out a couple of bullets of their gunpowder, and make a spark and you get a flame! This is a very useful survival tactic that was used in the old west that is almost forgotten unless you are a park ranger!

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by MikhailN on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 18:57

@ElfenMagix wrote:Another thing- people forget that when you are out in the woods, and need a fire, guns are a good source for a flame. Empty out a couple of bullets of their gunpowder, and make a spark and you get a flame! This is a very useful survival tactic that was used in the old west that is almost forgotten unless you are a park ranger!

FTW cheers

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 19:02

@MikhailN wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:Well I dont just mean to kill, I mean for practical use and even in a tactical or self-defence scenario a Deagle (in any caliber) a is preety useless, expensive noicemaker becuase of size, handling, and caliber wich are not intended for that use.

Sad to say, the moment you draw your firearm you have to be prepared to use it to take a life, even in self-defence. No one wants to take a life, though there are idiots who say they don't mind. I've been deployed during my term in the armed forces and I assure you, once me and my buddy chambered our rounds we were praying like anything that the order to open fire would never come through.
In my life time, I have only fired my weapon in the due course of using Deadly Force about 5 times. 3 were to save someone from a rape, 1 was from an attempted arson and 1 was a home invasion by some nut job with an axe saying he was going to kill the family. If this 5, 3 were killed and the other 2 wounded, and all deemed as Self Defense Actions by the judge. (NYC is so stupid, even when it is obvious that you acted in self defense- you still get arrested and must see a judge who always drops the case)

No, pulling the trigger is not easy. Anyone thinking that it is, has something wrong with them!

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 19:21

@sasahara17 wrote:...maybe if you do want to get (Triela) in a raging fit, you could give her a replica SiG water pistol? But hell, I bet the thing is heavy enough it would be used for one good throw.

Well we know Rico plays for keeps.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 13:14

@ElfenMagix wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:Stupidity with firearms is something I dont accept. One time I was at the range and there was this guy (18 year old punk) with blue died hair shooting 2 Glocks (one was a model 22 and the other a 17) duel-wielding from the 7 yard line. Nobody else was there and I went up to the guy to tell him that this is not acceptable. He reloaded and turned around and saw me and while (accidently) pointing the gun at me he said " Whant a try dude?" I acted instantly and grabed both guns from him and unloaded them, I told him to get out of the range for his dumbness and if it were not becuase I had the MK1 in my holster he would have told me something along the lines of:

"Who the hell do you think you are you kid to be ordering me around."

I hate people like that.
I would have shot him in the head. Or put my fist through his mouth. Let the video tape show the court who acted as what!
You're a bigger man in acting so calmly in that situation- that I will admit!

Its esier said than done (no offence by that) but I was in a shooting range alone (other than mydad and bro who were taking a piss) and still I have had other stuff happen to me like one day I was at an armory and then some guy with an AK-47 showed up wanting to mount a sling on the rifle. After the guy mounted the sling he took rifle and (again accidently) pointed it at me and at the armory guy (wich is a friend of mine) then the armory guy took the rifle from him took the mag out and racked the bolt.....the clicking sound alone pissed me off....the rifle was loaded!.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 13:21

@MikhailN wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:Well I dont just mean to kill, I mean for practical use and even in a tactical or self-defence scenario a Deagle (in any caliber) a is preety useless, expensive noicemaker becuase of size, handling, and caliber wich are not intended for that use.

Sad to say, the moment you draw your firearm you have to be prepared to use it to take a life, even in self-defence. No one wants to take a life, though there are idiots who say they don't mind. I've been deployed during my term in the armed forces and I assure you, once me and my buddy chambered our
rounds we were praying like anything that the order to open fire would never come through.

Resent anime fan wrote:Actually Jerry Miculek
is the worls fastest revolver shooter and no he leaves his guns stock with 12 pound triger pulls (ahhh if I were imortal like him!).

Yea we do lighten our trigers since its more accurate that way.

Lighter triggers aren't the whole story. 10m air rifles don't need to have a minimum weight so you guys drop the weight all the way. 10m airpistols need to hold a 500g weight so it becomes a bit different. What I prefer is a crisp trigger (1st pressure about the same and the 2nd) so once you get to the 2nd pressure it's about time to shoot. For practical pistol there's no requirement but the 2nd pressure must be higher for safety purposes.

Also, if the trigger is too light you'd be in big trouble once cold weather sets in. Your finger is less sensitive and well, try not to misfire cheers

Yes, when a firearm is taken out and pointed at someone (in a self-defence scenario) you have to be prepared to kill, not hurt not maim but kill. Esier said than done but true.

I have shot 10m pistol but only once and it is very dificult but training will clear all the bad things (like carring the rifle wich is like 9-12 pounds!).

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 13:25

@ElfenMagix wrote:
@MikhailN wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:Well I dont just mean to kill, I mean for practical use and even in a tactical or self-defence scenario a Deagle (in any caliber) a is preety useless, expensive noicemaker becuase of size, handling, and caliber wich are not intended for that use.

Sad to say, the moment you draw your firearm you have to be prepared to use it to take a life, even in self-defence. No one wants to take a life, though there are idiots who say they don't mind. I've been deployed during my term in the armed forces and I assure you, once me and my buddy chambered our rounds we were praying like anything that the order to open fire would never come through.
In my life time, I have only fired my weapon in the due course of using Deadly Force about 5 times. 3 were to save someone from a rape, 1 was from an attempted arson and 1 was a home invasion by some nut job with an axe saying he was going to kill the family. If this 5, 3 were killed and the other 2 wounded, and all deemed as Self Defense Actions by the judge. (NYC is so stupid, even when it is obvious that you acted in self defense- you still get arrested and must see a judge who always drops the case)

No, pulling the trigger is not easy. Anyone thinking that it is, has something wrong with them!

My uncle was a soldier and he once told me (becuase I intend on joining the Army) that the only time you feel bad for killing is only the first time. Everything after that is just nothing.

I just dont want to thinkl of it like that....I'm not like Max, I dont gain pleasure from killing.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 14:17

Resent anime fan wrote:My uncle was a soldier and he once told me (becuase I intend on joining the Army) that the only time you feel bad for killing is only the first time. Everything after that is just nothing.

I just dont want to thinkl of it like that....I'm not like Max, I dont gain pleasure from killing.
Killing because its in defense (Soldiers at war have to kill in defense), is one thing.
Killing to gain pleasure, well, thats an issue that needs to be dealt with by inserting the biggest round into that person's head manually.

If life is to remain a precious thing, something of value and worth, a want to have and continue in sharing with others, then it has to be protected against those who believe themselves to be above others and seek to destroy it. When one can take money out of their pocket and can deem it to be greater than another's life, then they need to be removed from society before they start to enact on such values. Like I said- I have taken a life from an aggressor who thought that my life or the life that I rescued was not worth the chump chain in his pocket. I did not like doing so, but found it a necessity in that it was a choice if either his life or mine, and I will do what I can to survive another day, because even wounded or injured, he still posed a danger to my life or the lives of those I protect.

It maybe that the first is the hardest, and following killings come easier, but I do not find it gratifying, satisfying or a source of joy and pleasure. It bothers me that I did have to do what I had to do in order keep life, limb and safety of self and others intact. For me it leaves a sour and bitter taste in my mouth, even though some who I saved or had witnessed the deed happen call me a hero. I am not a hero in taking a life. At best I am a hero for saving one, but I want no medals or recognitions for what happened, and at best would want to be left alone until I can it get through my thick skull that there was no other alternative or options in what happened.

Soldiers at war must face this decision daily, and in numbers larger than my lifetime score. It is still not easy for them, but they do a job that has to be done. I would praise them for being able to do that, for this is the price of freedom, a price that has to be paid with lives.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 14:25

Resent anime fan wrote:My uncle was a soldier and he once told me (becuase I intend on joining the Army) that the only time you feel bad for killing is only the first time. Everything after that is just nothing.

I always approached it as it being me or them, and I didn't want it to be me. I also thought General Patton had it right - "The idea is not to die for your country, but to get the other poor bastard to die for his".

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 15:02

@ElfenMagix wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:My uncle was a soldier and he once told me (becuase I intend on joining the Army) that the only time you feel bad for killing is only the first time. Everything after that is just nothing.

I just dont want to thinkl of it like that....I'm not like Max, I dont gain pleasure from killing.
Killing because its in defense (Soldiers at war have to kill in defense), is one thing.
Killing to gain pleasure, well, thats an issue that needs to be dealt with by inserting the biggest round into that person's head manually.

If life is to remain a precious thing, something of value and worth, a want to have and continue in sharing with others, then it has to be protected against those who believe themselves to be above others and seek to destroy it. When one can take money out of their pocket and can deem it to be greater than another's life, then they need to be removed from society before they start to enact on such values. Like I said- I have taken a life from an aggressor who thought that my life or the life that I rescued was not worth the chump chain in his pocket. I did not like doing so, but found it a necessity in that it was a choice if either his life or mine, and I will do what I can to survive another day, because even wounded or injured, he still posed a danger to my life or the lives of those I protect.

It maybe that the first is the hardest, and following killings come easier, but I do not find it gratifying, satisfying or a source of joy and pleasure. It bothers me that I did have to do what I had to do in order keep life, limb and safety of self and others intact. For me it leaves a sour and bitter taste in my mouth, even though some who I saved or had witnessed the deed happen call me a hero. I am not a hero in taking a life. At best I am a hero for saving one, but I want no medals or recognitions for what happened, and at best would want to be left alone until I can it get through my thick skull that there was no other alternative or options in what happened.

Soldiers at war must face this decision daily, and in numbers larger than my lifetime score. It is still not easy for them, but they do a job that has to be done. I would praise them for being able to do that, for this is the price of freedom, a price that has to be paid with lives.

I take it Fernando is based of you right?.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 15:02

@Kiskaloo wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:My uncle was a soldier and he once told me (becuase I intend on joining the Army) that the only time you feel bad for killing is only the first time. Everything after that is just nothing.

I always approached it as it being me or them, and I didn't want it to be me. I also thought General Patton had it right - "The idea is not to die for your country, but to get the other poor bastard to die for his".

Well thats a slightly funny way of seing it, yea.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Nuke is Good on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 15:11

Desert Eagle isn't useless, its seems fun to shoot deer with. There is no useless gun, just a useless user like this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHFWMpsdiA&feature=related

This is to prove even a malfunction gun isn't useless

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjEV5okiUPg&feature=related
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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 15:12

Useless firearms? There's none that exists as far as I know. There's thousands of uses for a gun even those that are considered 'useless'.

Out of ammo? Use it as a club. Too small to be a club? Then throw it as a flying projectile. Missed it? Oh well, your throw sucks.

Chased by some guys while wielding the Chaucat MG (that's the worse MG)? Use it to bar the door. At least it could buy you time

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 16:14

Resent anime fan wrote:I take it Fernando is based of you right?.
As it is said in the bottom of the Wiki Entry,Fernando is based on a real person. He is the Marty Stu of all characters- at least in this Author's POV.

Also it is said in the bottom of this Wiki Entry,Rachel is based on a real person. She is the Mary Sue of all characters- at least in this Author's POV.


Enuf Said! Evil Evil Evil

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 16:28

Resent anime fan wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:I always approached it as it being me or them, and I didn't want it to be me. I also thought General Patton had it right - "The idea is not to die for your country, but to get the other poor bastard to die for his".

Well thats a slightly funny way of seing it, yea.
Patton was a great philosopher...

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 16:53

Panzer IV wrote:Useless firearms? There's none that exists as far as I know. There's thousands of uses for a gun even those that are considered 'useless'.

Out of ammo? Use it as a club. Too small to be a club? Then throw it as a flying projectile. Missed it? Oh well, your throw sucks.

Chased by some guys while wielding the Chaucat MG (that's the worse MG)? Use it to bar the door. At least it could buy you time

I think I should have posted it more clearly....I mean useless as a practical gun (not just for killing) I mean practical use like target shooting and competitions.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 16:55

@Nuke is Good wrote:Desert Eagle isn't useless, its seems fun to shoot deer with. There is no useless gun, just a useless user like this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHFWMpsdiA&feature=related

This is to prove even a malfunction gun isn't useless

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjEV5okiUPg&feature=related

Well it "seams fun" does not cover it as a very useless firearm for practical use (even hunting) like practicing maskamship and competitions and the like.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 17:19

Resent anime fan wrote:
Panzer IV wrote:Useless firearms? There's none that exists as far as I know. There's thousands of uses for a gun even those that are considered 'useless'.

Out of ammo? Use it as a club. Too small to be a club? Then throw it as a flying projectile. Missed it? Oh well, your throw sucks.

Chased by some guys while wielding the Chaucat MG (that's the worse MG)? Use it to bar the door. At least it could buy you time

I think I should have posted it more clearly....I mean useless as a practical gun (not just for killing) I mean practical use like target shooting and competitions.
This is the Gunslinger Girl "Cyborg Central" Forums... Opinions are going to vary on usabilities of gun if one does not explain what is meant by a "useless gun" is...

Any gun can be used for targetting... Hell, bringing back one of my comics- I can say that Angie missed!



Title: Shooting At The Gallery...

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 21:38

@ElfenMagix wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:
Panzer IV wrote:Useless firearms? There's none that exists as far as I know. There's thousands of uses for a gun even those that are considered 'useless'.

Out of ammo? Use it as a club. Too small to be a club? Then throw it as a flying projectile. Missed it? Oh well, your throw sucks.

Chased by some guys while wielding the Chaucat MG (that's the worse MG)? Use it to bar the door. At least it could buy you time

I think I should have posted it more clearly....I mean useless as a practical gun (not just for killing) I mean practical use like target shooting and competitions.
This is the Gunslinger Girl "Cyborg Central" Forums... Opinions are going to vary on usabilities of gun if one does not explain what is meant by a "useless gun" is...

Any gun can be used for targetting... Hell, bringing back one of my comics- I can say that Angie missed!



Title: Shooting At The Gallery...

Well I'd like to see some asshole in my range somday with a Deagle then...so I can royaly kick their ass of the shooting range. Most ranges dont allowe you to shoot such things and even if it did I would still kick his ass out of there becuase he is going to be making too much noice.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 22:51

You dont get the comic's joke... do you?

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 22:53

@ElfenMagix wrote:You dont get the comic's joke... do you?

Not a clue.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 23:38

Resent anime fan wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:You dont get the comic's joke... do you?

Not a clue.
Henrietta, Claes, and Rachel are at the range shooting at targets.
All of the sudden the back wall of the range is blown out!
Triela is out of the tank looking through binoculars at the damage done, telling Angie (who is in the tank) that she missed.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 23:48

@ElfenMagix wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:You dont get the comic's joke... do you?

Not a clue.
Henrietta, Claes, and Rachel are at the range shooting at targets.
All of the sudden the back wall of the range is blown out!
Triela is out of the tank looking through binoculars at the damage done, telling Angie (who is in the tank) that she missed.

Oh no thats what the big BAAM thing was there. Anyways why does Rachel look like that? I mean she always looks...bored!.
Oh and do you have any other images of her? in a more real look.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 10 Jul 2009, 00:00

Resent anime fan wrote:Oh no thats what the big BAAM thing was there. Anyways why does Rachel look like that? I mean she always looks...bored!.
Oh and do you have any other images of her? in a more real look.
Check the bottom of her wiki entry.

As for rl pics of her. No.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by Guest on Fri 10 Jul 2009, 14:45

@ElfenMagix wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:Oh no thats what the big BAAM thing was there. Anyways why does Rachel look like that? I mean she always looks...bored!.
Oh and do you have any other images of her? in a more real look.
Check the bottom of her wiki entry.

As for rl pics of her. No.

You should try looking for another real pic otherwise people are going to think of her as another Muffin.

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Re: "Useless" Firearms

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 10 Jul 2009, 17:58

Rachel and Muffin are nothing alike.
if you want an RL likeness of Rachel, look up Victoria Justice and imagine bigger boobs on her.

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