Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

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Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by emperor on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 6:15

What guns you'll let her firing instead of HK VP70?


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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Robert Frazer on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 6:58

If I'm to restore Claes to a front-line role, I'd probably abandon guns and establish her as a melee specialist.

While Petrushka (and presumably by extension the rest of the second-generation girls) has been shown to be fairly adept at hand-to-hand fighting, by contrast the first-generation girls may possess massive brute strength, but are clumsy and generally indifferent in close-combat. For instance, even after intense training Triela was turned into a pincushion in her second fight with Pinnochio; if it wasn't for her enhanced physique dulling pain and limiting injury she'd have been easily beaten. Consequently, the Agency really needs a girl who can manage herself when the enemy is inside of an arm's length. Having spent so long as a test bed and being strained to her limits repeatedly, Claes is probably more conscious and in synchronicity with the full capabilities of her body, and skill with fists'n'feet also gives her some unique distinction amongst a forest of gun-barrels.

Also, one of my favourite moments in the anime was her "...nope" during the villa raid!


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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 7:09

She was already trained in the use of the MP5K. I think that's good enough for me.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by boomer_gonz on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 7:21

Something versatile as she'd prolly be used as backup and for utility work.

I'd give her a Beretta 93R and an HK MP7. And for range work, train her in the use of the Remington M24.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 10:02

In my OC fiction Michele gave her his VP70 (with the detachable stock). She also uses an MP5K-PDW. She hasn't needed to use anything else, but that may change for the current story I am writing that she plays a major role in.


Last edited by Kiskaloo on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 10:37; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 10:30

In my fanfict(s), Claes uses her old VP70.
Its a descent gun, even without the rear stock that makes it a 3-shot machine gun. I dont think she would need anything when what she knows, and besides, she is competent in using 1 handgun, she should be able to use anything else put into her hands with minimal 5-minute training.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by LoC978 on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 12:15

I'm with Mr. Frazer on this one, but I've long thought that Claes has some deep psycological issues with firearms. Deeper than conditioning reaches.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Guest on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 5:05

I think I would go with a Styer AUG F88 as the primary gun, decent range, easily adaptable for different situations, attachable M203, bayonet lug, overall its a fairly good gun. The F88 is the AUG that is used by the Australian Army; there are slight differences to the A1 mainly a bayonet lug, different rifling groves and a heavier grain round.
As a side arm I would go with the H&K USP .45 tactical with suppressor and laser sight.
For sniping missions I would use an Accuracy International Artic Warfare Super Magnum (AWSM), a very good volt action sniper rifle, the AWSM is made to fire higher caliber bullets than other AW rifles such as the .338 Lapua Magnum.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by maverick375 on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 5:24

I'm with Mr. Frazer on this one, but I've long thought that Claes has
some deep psycological issues with firearms. Deeper than conditioning
reaches.

I disagree. What have we seen that suggests the kind of bad experience that would result in such a fear? The few seconds in the range when she was defending Raballo? We know none of Claes's back-story, but the fact that she was able to train as well as she had up until Raballo's (cough) untimely demise suggests nothing of the sort.
Her limiting factor in the "present" is her promise to "be good Claes". To what extent this goes in regards to hand-to-hand is up for debate, as the guy she whacked with the poker was likely dead before he hit the ground.

My thought is that she shys away from guns because she has been trained to shoot-to-kill only (wounding being something the others have to consciously think about). In hand-to-hand, she has more control over her ability and it's effects, thus she can avoid killing, keeping her promise.

As to what weapon? Why change what she knows? If guns are going to be an issue in training (now), then focus her on CQC and work her back into guns slowly. Infiltration should not be a problem for her.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 5:38

@maverick375 wrote:We know none of Claes's back-story
Aw, c'mon, Mav. We do.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by tsundere9kagami2 on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 8:06

Lol thats an (really expensive )airsoft gun made by Tanio Koba owned by AATV (austria airsoft tele vision)

How about giving her a glock or a P7.....pp7 (00CLAES)

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Richarddr1234 on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 9:54

It may seem old-fashioned, but I'd give Claes a ruger mini-14 with full-auto capability in a classic wood stock. Outwardly it looks like a small M-14 (it uses the m-14 mechanism but fires 5.56mm rounds). Its a beauty. You can install telescopic sights in it; but also you can use it for assualts; you can also stick a bayonet in it and; it doesnt jam as easily as AR-15. Besides, I like the way old guns look. Claes would look pretty elegant using it just as triela looks elegant using her shotgun. I also think it suits her fighting style (the one showcased in the villa assault) as she can use the gun like a stick to KO enemies.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 10:38

@Nachtsider wrote:
@maverick375 wrote:We know none of Claes's back-story
Aw, c'mon, Mav. We do.

About all I can recall is that she was the daughter of a professor who instilled in her a love of books. That's admittedly more than we know about any other Generation 1 character, except perhaps Rico, but it's not much, IMO.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by LoC978 on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 12:17

@maverick375 wrote:Her limiting factor in the "present" is her promise to "be good Claes". To what extent this goes in regards to hand-to-hand is up for debate, as the guy she whacked with the poker was likely dead before he hit the ground.
...I'd guess that the guard in her room was dead as well, what with cyborg strength and broken necks often being lethal.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 12:19

Assuming Claes used "full power".

They can clearly regulate how much force they apply, just as a normal human does, so she did not have to break his leg with her foot nor nearly decapitate him with the blow to the neck if she chose not to.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by LoC978 on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 12:26

maybe it's just the animators, but from the way his leg/torso/neck reacted... he got hit hard.

-knees aren't supposed to bend that way.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 12:36

I'm not arguing that, I'm just saying that I don't believe she automatically killed him.

Then again, I consider the first season anime to be in a separate continuity from the manga because of episodes like this. Within my own OC universe, Claes did indeed masquerade as a Senator's daughter just because I needed her to have gone on a mission after Raballo died, but what happened in Episode 12 didn't happen in my OC universe.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by LoC978 on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 12:48

well, yeah... assuming episode 12 didn't happen pretty well invalidates my stance on the issue sweat

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by rusty-spring on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 12:52

@LoC978 wrote:well, yeah... assuming episode 12 didn't happen pretty well invalidates my stance on the issue
It's a shame it's not cannon, cause I found Ep 12 to be one of the more enjoyable ones. As for Claes severing the spinal cord of that one unlucky guard, she's just hardcore.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 12:58

@rusty-spring wrote:
@LoC978 wrote:well, yeah... assuming episode 12 didn't happen pretty well invalidates my stance on the issue
It's a shame it's not cannon, cause I found Ep 12 to be one of the more enjoyable ones. As for Claes severing the spinal cord of that one unlucky guard, she's just hardcore.

Mind you, this is just my personal opinion. I know some forum members consider the first season anime to be part of the "official canon".

I accept -IL TEATRINO- as part of the "canon" because Yu Aida wrote the screenplays. But he didn't have that level of involvement with the first series (I doubt he had little beyond cashing a check) and this led to what I feel are incongruities with the manga (and might have led Yu to write the screenplays for the sequel).

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by rusty-spring on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 13:17

@Kiskaloo wrote:I know some forum members consider the first season anime to be part of the "official canon".
Lol, I know what you mean. I read the manga LOOOONG after the anime came out and a couple of times I went "Wha? What's/where's this part?" Ah well, just another learning lesson in the world of manga/anime adaption.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 13:17

I suppose part of the issue is that the first season of the anime was written while the manga had not even reached 15 chapters.

So at the time, you could argue Claes could be a killer in Episode 12 because we'd only seen her in Chapter 6. It was only much later (Chapter 18 and especially 33 and 34, which were written some three years later) that Claes was shown to be, if not a pacifist, someone who had a deep aversion to inflicting injury, much less death, on somebody because of how she remembered her promise to Raballo.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Piero on Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 21:58

I can answer this more easily from the prespective of what I think would suit Claes as a writer rather then the perspective of what I'd personally go for if I was her trainer. I think a HK33A3 seems to fit her, perhaps backed up by a Beretta PX4 Storm (let's say Type G, decocker only).

Then again, there's also going the G3-SG/1 route like I did with Diana (one of my OCs). Actually, for some reason I kind of like the idea of a G3-SG/1 for Claes...

Notice the tendency towards roller locked HKs for the primaries? Laughing For some reason they seem to fit Claes to me.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by emperor on Wed 23 Sep 2009 - 0:14

New additional question :

What if you order Claes that don't wear those eye-glasses again?


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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 23 Sep 2009 - 0:35

I'd like to think she'd consent because she respected Michele and agreed to follow his wishes.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Piero on Wed 23 Sep 2009 - 0:36

It wouldn't end well?

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 23 Sep 2009 - 0:49

@emperor wrote:New additional question :

What if you order Claes that don't wear those eye-glasses again?

What?

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by LoC978 on Wed 23 Sep 2009 - 2:51

@Nachtsider wrote:
@emperor wrote:New additional question :

What if you order Claes that don't wear those eye-glasses again?

What?
[HK47 voice]Clarification: how would Claes react if her new handler were to order her not to wear her glasses ever again?
Further extrapolation: what if her handler were to then take the glasses away from her?[/HK47 voice]

easy answer(in the LoC universe): she'd obey, and then become very depressed, without an inkling of why.

If the source of the depression was not addressed, (e.g. the glasses were destroyed and not replaced with a copy that could fool her) she would enter a psychological downward spiral. Eventually she would sneak away from the compound, not caring that she would have less than a day before withdrawl symptoms would kick in. Assuming she could avoid search parties in that state, she would eventually succumb to the elements, or possibly thirst/starvation.
If she was recovered, the cycle would repeat (as closely as the agency allowed) until her death a short time later.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 23 Sep 2009 - 17:44

I would agree with LoC on this one.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Danjo3 on Thu 24 Sep 2009 - 0:47

I think a lot of it depends how she felt about her new handler. In vol.7 she said that she envied the other girls for having big brothers, so its probably something she wants and would be eager to please him. I think shed be pretty bummed out at first, but if she really liked (or even loved?) the guy, shed probably get over it.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by Guest on Thu 24 Sep 2009 - 8:36

I think it would be a matter of handling it the right way, I think that you would have to reach a compromise. I believe it would simply be a matter of letting her wear the glasses but convincing her to take the glasses off for missions. The way she reacts would all be depending on how good the handler was at his job and whether or not he tried to respect her and compromise with her like Hillshire and Jose or whether he treated her badly like Lauro or Jean.
As for forcibly taking the glasses, well the handler could try to increase the conditioning and make her more like Rico and accept whatever you do to her, or it could turn out that she completely breaks down and goes against her conditioning, whatever the consequences of that are...
If I was the handler I would try to reach a compromise, besides the mental grief I would suffer from going against my morals, from a purely practical standpoint, it would NOT be advantageous to have a cyborg in the midst of mental turmoil.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by rusty-spring on Thu 24 Sep 2009 - 13:03

@Danjo3 wrote:I think shed be pretty bummed out at first, but if she really liked (or even loved?) the guy, shed probably get over it.
That's right. Be a man cyborg, walk it off.

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by zarien85 on Sun 22 Aug 2010 - 22:35

i would try to compromise with her and for a weapon straight up hand to hand and the v70 if she needs it make her infiltration spec

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Re: Let's supposed you're new Claes's handler....

Post by funkmachine on Thu 26 Aug 2010 - 14:53

to start id put with another girl to give her a reason to fight.

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