Difference of ammo

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Difference of ammo

Post by emperor on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 7:28



PDW cartridges, shown to scale. From left to right: .30 Carbine, 5.56mm NATO, 6x35 KAC, 5.7mm FN, 4.6mm HK, 5.8x21 Chinese, 6.5x25 CBJ, 9x19 NATO, 9x21 Russian AP, .40 S&W, .45 ACP

From:www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/PDWs.htm


I can see how complexity when you guy talking about the ammo. Razz

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://on.fb.me/9tuZOK Facebook Page for Cyborg Central : Gunslinger Girl Forum cheers
avatar
emperor

Male

Forum Posts : 1637

Location : Bangkok,Thailand

Fan of : Henrietta,Black Lagoon,Jormungund

Original Characters : Rosetta,Devil baby

Comments : Be creative,baby!!

Registration date : 2007-09-09
Your character
OC genger:

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 7:34

No .50 Beo? Evil

Dear lord, but the .30 carbine round has terrible penetrating power.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------





There may be no peace for the wicked, but the righteous can damn well get a piece whenever they feel like it.
avatar
Nachtsider
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD

Male

Forum Posts : 5718

Location : Inside your closet. In your head.

Fan of : Gunslinger Girl, Transformers: Animated

Original Characters : Liesel/Altheus, Meir/Kathryn, Aharon/Nadia, Cosette/Janus

Comments : The Living Legend. Master of Darkness. Trailblazer par excellence. Fear him.

Registration date : 2007-09-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by boomer_gonz on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 7:35

No, 7.62 either?

Cry

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Power of Claes Compels You!!!
avatar
boomer_gonz

Male

Forum Posts : 2561

Location : California Republic

Fan of : Crystal Palace!!!

Original Characters : Alpha/Omega Fratello & Dr. Giacomo Gianncomo

Registration date : 2007-09-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 7:36

Come to think of it... you're right. Seven-six-two isn't there.

Blasphemy!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------





There may be no peace for the wicked, but the righteous can damn well get a piece whenever they feel like it.
avatar
Nachtsider
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD

Male

Forum Posts : 5718

Location : Inside your closet. In your head.

Fan of : Gunslinger Girl, Transformers: Animated

Original Characters : Liesel/Altheus, Meir/Kathryn, Aharon/Nadia, Cosette/Janus

Comments : The Living Legend. Master of Darkness. Trailblazer par excellence. Fear him.

Registration date : 2007-09-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by MikhailN on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 7:43

7.62 NATO and 7.62 Russian are too powerful for PDW use. Of course, if you can find one PDW that uses them then I stand corrected

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
MikhailN

Male

Forum Posts : 583

Location : SWA, teaching the little girls to kick rear

Fan of : Triela

Registration date : 2009-06-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 7:44

Oh wait... we're talking about PDW ammo?

Silly me.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------





There may be no peace for the wicked, but the righteous can damn well get a piece whenever they feel like it.
avatar
Nachtsider
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD

Male

Forum Posts : 5718

Location : Inside your closet. In your head.

Fan of : Gunslinger Girl, Transformers: Animated

Original Characters : Liesel/Altheus, Meir/Kathryn, Aharon/Nadia, Cosette/Janus

Comments : The Living Legend. Master of Darkness. Trailblazer par excellence. Fear him.

Registration date : 2007-09-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by MikhailN on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 10:26

@Nachtsider wrote:Oh wait... we're talking about PDW ammo?

Silly me.

Nah. Easy mistake to make. After all, there are SMGs / carbines that use 7.62mm (Is the AKSU74 counted?) and sometimes the distinction between SMG, carbine and PDW isn't very clear.

@emperor - If you thought this was bad, wait till you go into specialized rounds like AP, incendiary, HPBT, JHP, tracer, VLD, frangible and all the others. Just look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet

Bottom line says that there's a bullet for every occasion and then some Good

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
MikhailN

Male

Forum Posts : 583

Location : SWA, teaching the little girls to kick rear

Fan of : Triela

Registration date : 2009-06-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by LoC978 on Fri 17 Jul 2009 - 12:23

I've always thought the 5.56NATO is too fast and too suited to penetration for a PDW... but I guess that's just me.
well, I guess it's also a symptom of me being in love with this thing:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Moderatio est figmentum.
avatar
LoC978
Beach Bum Revolutionary

Male

Forum Posts : 2628

Location : Northwestern USA. Usually Portland.

Fan of : At home- Claes. Abroad- Rico.

Registration date : 2007-09-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by emperor on Sat 18 Jul 2009 - 2:29

@emperor - If you thought this was bad, wait till you go into specialized rounds like AP, incendiary, HPBT, JHP, tracer, VLD, frangible and all the others. Just look at this: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet

Guh?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://on.fb.me/9tuZOK Facebook Page for Cyborg Central : Gunslinger Girl Forum cheers
avatar
emperor

Male

Forum Posts : 1637

Location : Bangkok,Thailand

Fan of : Henrietta,Black Lagoon,Jormungund

Original Characters : Rosetta,Devil baby

Comments : Be creative,baby!!

Registration date : 2007-09-09
Your character
OC genger:

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by tsundere9kagami2 on Sat 18 Jul 2009 - 3:07

i shoot guns out of my bullets

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm actually a hardcore otaku who likes maids more than having three meals in a day and I only read books related to maids. Also, I only visit maid cafes. Of course I also collect maid figurines, I play games which feature maids and it turns me on so much that I'll wear the maid uniforms and jump in joy.
avatar
tsundere9kagami2
Oceanic Drifting

Male

Forum Posts : 1069

Fan of : Moe~

Original Characters : youru kun

Registration date : 2008-07-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by MikhailN on Sat 18 Jul 2009 - 3:32

@tsundere9kagami2 wrote:i shoot guns out of my bullets

Puzzled Puzzled Puzzled

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
MikhailN

Male

Forum Posts : 583

Location : SWA, teaching the little girls to kick rear

Fan of : Triela

Registration date : 2009-06-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Piero on Sat 18 Jul 2009 - 3:38

Mikhail -not everything Tsu says makes sense. Nor is it supposed to, in a lot of cases. Laughing

Get used to it. Smile

Piero

Male

Forum Posts : 2617

Fan of : Full Metal Panic, Macross Frontier, Mai-HiME

Original Characters : Diana and Piero

Registration date : 2008-01-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by MikhailN on Sat 18 Jul 2009 - 3:43

For half a minute there I thought someone was messing with my head or something

"Get out of my head Charles!"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
MikhailN

Male

Forum Posts : 583

Location : SWA, teaching the little girls to kick rear

Fan of : Triela

Registration date : 2009-06-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by rshackleford on Sat 18 Jul 2009 - 5:44

Oh yeah? Well I have a fractal shotgun. It shoots shotguns that shoot shotguns that shoot shotguns that...well, you get the point.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
rshackleford

Male

Forum Posts : 85

Fan of : Leon the Professional

Registration date : 2008-04-23

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by tsundere9kagami2 on Sat 18 Jul 2009 - 6:19

WOAH!!! man just calm down! i didnt mean any harm sir i just wanted to go home.. how bout you put down your Infinity shotgun cascade and ill stop making guns throw out of bullets...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm actually a hardcore otaku who likes maids more than having three meals in a day and I only read books related to maids. Also, I only visit maid cafes. Of course I also collect maid figurines, I play games which feature maids and it turns me on so much that I'll wear the maid uniforms and jump in joy.
avatar
tsundere9kagami2
Oceanic Drifting

Male

Forum Posts : 1069

Fan of : Moe~

Original Characters : youru kun

Registration date : 2008-07-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 18 Jul 2009 - 9:10

@MikhailN wrote:
@tsundere9kagami2 wrote:i shoot guns out of my bullets

Puzzled Puzzled Puzzled

Tsuna-Roll suffers from what I call "Typing Tourette's".

Eventually you learn to just roll with it. Razz

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What? I like donuts! - Betty Suarez
If I die before my time, go on Oprah and tell the world 'I liked kittens'. - Veronica Mars
Scissors of victory! - Yui Hirasawa
avatar
Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Male

Forum Posts : 10901

Location : Seattle / Tokyo / Milan

Fan of : Angelica's Smile

Original Characters : Kara Michelle

Comments : The community's international man of mystery.

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Guest on Sat 18 Jul 2009 - 12:48

@Nachtsider wrote:No .50 Beo? Evil

Dear lord, but the .30 carbine round has terrible penetrating power.

No shit man! I own a M1 carbine .30 cal and that thing went through a bullet-proof vest I got from my uncle and I was like Puzzled arent these vest soposed to stop .223?!.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Guest on Sat 18 Jul 2009 - 12:49

@Nachtsider wrote:Oh wait... we're talking about PDW ammo?

Silly me.

Actualy...the list does not contain a lot of the real PDW tipe calibers! .45ACP is not a PDW caliber!

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by LoC978 on Sat 18 Jul 2009 - 13:46

Resent anime fan wrote:Actualy...the list does not contain a lot of the real PDW tipe calibers! .45ACP is not a PDW caliber!
I beg to differ.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Moderatio est figmentum.
avatar
LoC978
Beach Bum Revolutionary

Male

Forum Posts : 2628

Location : Northwestern USA. Usually Portland.

Fan of : At home- Claes. Abroad- Rico.

Registration date : 2007-09-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Guest on Sat 18 Jul 2009 - 23:33

@LoC978 wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:Actualy...the list does not contain a lot of the real PDW tipe calibers! .45ACP is not a PDW caliber!
I beg to differ.

Ahhh the Kris....what a load of bullshit. You should read my comment again I said the .45ACP is NOT a PDW CALIBER I never talked about weapons.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 18 Jul 2009 - 23:49

I dunno, man. I think the KRISS seems pretty okay, and can sorta qualify as a PDW...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------





There may be no peace for the wicked, but the righteous can damn well get a piece whenever they feel like it.
avatar
Nachtsider
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD

Male

Forum Posts : 5718

Location : Inside your closet. In your head.

Fan of : Gunslinger Girl, Transformers: Animated

Original Characters : Liesel/Altheus, Meir/Kathryn, Aharon/Nadia, Cosette/Janus

Comments : The Living Legend. Master of Darkness. Trailblazer par excellence. Fear him.

Registration date : 2007-09-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by LoC978 on Sat 18 Jul 2009 - 23:51

I guess I should've included other .45ACP SMGs, but I was lazy. As for the Kriss being bullshit... ever fire one? Don't knock it 'til you've tried it, bro.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Moderatio est figmentum.
avatar
LoC978
Beach Bum Revolutionary

Male

Forum Posts : 2628

Location : Northwestern USA. Usually Portland.

Fan of : At home- Claes. Abroad- Rico.

Registration date : 2007-09-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Piero on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 0:29

Given that the Kriss is promoted as "The first major breakthrough in automatic weapons operating system design in more then 120 years," I'm not sure the knocking is entirely undeserved...

Piero

Male

Forum Posts : 2617

Fan of : Full Metal Panic, Macross Frontier, Mai-HiME

Original Characters : Diana and Piero

Registration date : 2008-01-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Nuke is Good on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 2:11

@Nachtsider wrote:No .50 Beo? Evil

Dear lord, but the .30 carbine round has terrible penetrating power.

If the M1 Carbine used the .30, I heard stories that the carbine was so weak in Korea that they wiped the slugs from their jackets.
avatar
Nuke is Good

Male

Forum Posts : 326

Location : New Jersey

Fan of : Henrietta

Original Characters : Rc v1

Registration date : 2008-04-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by rshackleford on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 2:23

The definition of a PDW is all over the place.

I subscribe to the belief that only guns designed for those intermediate rounds (4.6mm, 5.7mm, etc) can be considered PDWs.

Gun manufacturers like HK, Kriss or Knight's Armament can call their compact automatics whatever they want, but if it fires a .45 or a 9mm, it's a glorified SMG.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
rshackleford

Male

Forum Posts : 85

Fan of : Leon the Professional

Registration date : 2008-04-23

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by LoC978 on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 2:32

feh. semantics. Why would a personal defense weapon need those itty-bitty high velocity pass-through rounds? You'd think by definition they'd need to be compact man-stoppers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Moderatio est figmentum.
avatar
LoC978
Beach Bum Revolutionary

Male

Forum Posts : 2628

Location : Northwestern USA. Usually Portland.

Fan of : At home- Claes. Abroad- Rico.

Registration date : 2007-09-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by rshackleford on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 4:40

Sign of the changing times.

The original purpose of equipping vehicle crews and rear-echelon soldiers with a compact weapon capable of defeating body armor is no longer relevant in today's battlefield. That was the original purpose of all these proprietary intermediate rounds anyway, to combine the armor piercing capabilities of a larger round with the ammunition capacity and size of pistol cartridges.

Now we get a bunch of unarmored militants and insurgents where these PDW rounds zip right through, and 9mm and .45 rounds perform better against.

For the same reason you can't just slap 2 more wheels on a motorcycle and call it a car, I don't believe you can justify any gun firing a SMG cartridge as a PDW just because of its design.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
rshackleford

Male

Forum Posts : 85

Fan of : Leon the Professional

Registration date : 2008-04-23

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by tsundere9kagami2 on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 5:17

I dont know its name or the bullets that it takes. I only know the sound it makes when it stops a man in his tracks and drops him.


Oh and i heard something about the 1911 becoming obsolete in todays battlefield so they made bullets that are big around the end then wither to a teensy armour peircing slug and you need a teensy barrel conversion....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm actually a hardcore otaku who likes maids more than having three meals in a day and I only read books related to maids. Also, I only visit maid cafes. Of course I also collect maid figurines, I play games which feature maids and it turns me on so much that I'll wear the maid uniforms and jump in joy.
avatar
tsundere9kagami2
Oceanic Drifting

Male

Forum Posts : 1069

Fan of : Moe~

Original Characters : youru kun

Registration date : 2008-07-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by rshackleford on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 6:07

Wasn't that line said by the phony war hero "Four Leaf" Tayback in Tropic Thunder lol? That guy didn't know shit about firearms.

As for the 1911 becoming obsolete, I'll share with you a little saying I've heard said many times:

"If you need more than 8 rounds of .45, you either can't shoot, or are in way over your head."

Against the current crop of under-armored and under-equipped insurgents, I'll take a .45 over a 9mm thank you very much.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
rshackleford

Male

Forum Posts : 85

Fan of : Leon the Professional

Registration date : 2008-04-23

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by tsundere9kagami2 on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 6:41

against body armoured zombies.....ill take the 9mm....theres...well... you can fit more bullets in them (theres more firepower to be had in smaller bullets)....sure 9mm seems girly but these are zombies we are talking about.


also leafback said " I dont know what its called. I just know the sound it makes when it takes a mans life."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm actually a hardcore otaku who likes maids more than having three meals in a day and I only read books related to maids. Also, I only visit maid cafes. Of course I also collect maid figurines, I play games which feature maids and it turns me on so much that I'll wear the maid uniforms and jump in joy.
avatar
tsundere9kagami2
Oceanic Drifting

Male

Forum Posts : 1069

Fan of : Moe~

Original Characters : youru kun

Registration date : 2008-07-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Piero on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 13:17

Funny thing is, some of these PDW loads actually don'tpenetrate that deeply, and in fact have been criticised for having relatively low penetration. The reasoning for this phenomena seems to be that the rounds are pointy and lightweight and therefore have a tendency to destabilise after pentrating the body. Some people claim that their tendency to 'tumble' makes them effective from a lethality standpoint, but others seem more sceptical.

I'd thought the Russians had a more solid approach, but apparently their AP 9mm rounds aren't designed for the whole bullet to penetrate, in the event of the bullet hitting body armour they're supposed to shed their jackets while allowing a sub calibre penetrator to pass through. And since those penetrators are small...

The Swedes developed a rather interesting variation of 9x19mm back in the 50s for their submachine guns. It had a thick and particularly hard metal jacket, and supposedly can penetrate kevlar, though it also reportedly wears out weapon barrels quite fast. I don't know that the thing would be capable of meeting the modern PDW standard of kevlar and metal plates, but it seems like an interesting approach.

Basically, one of the big problems with PDWs seems to be the challenge of developing a weapon smaller then a rifle that is guaranteed to both penetrate armour and put the enemy down quickly. It's claimed that some of the designs out there can do this, but there are sceptics.

Piero

Male

Forum Posts : 2617

Fan of : Full Metal Panic, Macross Frontier, Mai-HiME

Original Characters : Diana and Piero

Registration date : 2008-01-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by rusty-spring on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 14:20

You know what'd be a good PDW? A big fucking sword.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Do you know what Jesus said in John chapter 5? Don't bring me any trouble, bitch." - Eda, Black Lagoon
"Anybody can be cool...but awesome takes practice." - Lorraine Peterson
avatar
rusty-spring
The AWESOME Baron

Male

Forum Posts : 1380

Fan of : being awesome

Original Characters : L is for Laine

Registration date : 2007-09-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by LoC978 on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 14:23

nonono.... a little fucking sword! these are for vehicle crews, man!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Moderatio est figmentum.
avatar
LoC978
Beach Bum Revolutionary

Male

Forum Posts : 2628

Location : Northwestern USA. Usually Portland.

Fan of : At home- Claes. Abroad- Rico.

Registration date : 2007-09-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by rusty-spring on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 14:56

@LoC978 wrote:nonono.... a little fucking sword! these are for vehicle crews, man!
Curses! How could I have missed that detail! bang head

Very well, from now on, all vehicle crewmen shall receive daggers! (And maybe a little tiny shield to go with it.)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Do you know what Jesus said in John chapter 5? Don't bring me any trouble, bitch." - Eda, Black Lagoon
"Anybody can be cool...but awesome takes practice." - Lorraine Peterson
avatar
rusty-spring
The AWESOME Baron

Male

Forum Posts : 1380

Fan of : being awesome

Original Characters : L is for Laine

Registration date : 2007-09-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 14:58

Give them a Gladius.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What? I like donuts! - Betty Suarez
If I die before my time, go on Oprah and tell the world 'I liked kittens'. - Veronica Mars
Scissors of victory! - Yui Hirasawa
avatar
Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Male

Forum Posts : 10901

Location : Seattle / Tokyo / Milan

Fan of : Angelica's Smile

Original Characters : Kara Michelle

Comments : The community's international man of mystery.

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by rshackleford on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 17:34

If there's anything the North Hollywood Shootout taught us, it's that 9mm wouldn't do shit against body armor.

Against zombies, the logical round is the .22, as crazy as it sounds. All you need to do is hit it once in the head, and a .22 has the power to penetrate the skull. The small size of the round and the low recoil means you can carry a lot, and shoot accurately.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
rshackleford

Male

Forum Posts : 85

Fan of : Leon the Professional

Registration date : 2008-04-23

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Piero on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 18:02

8mm thick steel plate penetrated by Russian 7N31 ammunition

I'm not sure I'd trust it to do a lot of damage behind that plate due to the fact that only the sub calibre penetrator passed through, but still, 7N31 is a 9x19mm round (though not one designed for use with just any 9x19mm pistol, since it's a high pressure load).

Piero

Male

Forum Posts : 2617

Fan of : Full Metal Panic, Macross Frontier, Mai-HiME

Original Characters : Diana and Piero

Registration date : 2008-01-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by rshackleford on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 18:06

I've heard about that round, it's used in that new Russian PDW, the PP2000. It can fire both 9mm ammo and the new 7N31 without any conversions.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
rshackleford

Male

Forum Posts : 85

Fan of : Leon the Professional

Registration date : 2008-04-23

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by MikhailN on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 18:53

@rusty-spring wrote:You know what'd be a good PDW? A big fucking sword.

I know a Brit who took that approach during WWII. His name was Jack Churchill

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Churchill

Now that's one guy who can use this Kirk is Awesome

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
MikhailN

Male

Forum Posts : 583

Location : SWA, teaching the little girls to kick rear

Fan of : Triela

Registration date : 2009-06-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Guest on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 22:55

@Nachtsider wrote:I dunno, man. I think the KRISS seems pretty okay, and can sorta qualify as a PDW...

It does qualify but that does not mean its a good firearm.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Guest on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 23:01

@LoC978 wrote:I guess I should've included other .45ACP SMGs, but I was lazy. As for the Kriss being bullshit... ever fire one? Don't knock it 'til you've tried it, bro.

No offence if you like it (for whatever reason that is) but the Kriss is an over-hyped firearm and yes for my taste it is bullshit. There is no need to fire a firearm to know if its shit, I have handled it (a very rare semi-auto one wich is the civilian version) and its just does not feel right in the hand and it jams a lot (becuase it damps the recoil too much to the point it wont cycle the action) its just a Future Weapon....weapon. That Mack is sure one dumb SOB.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Guest on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 23:04

@Piero wrote:Given that the Kriss is promoted as "The first major breakthrough in automatic weapons operating system design in more then 120 years," I'm not sure the knocking is entirely undeserved...

A good shooter knows better than just to belive whatever it is that some guy/girl (with or without military experience) about a weapon.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Guest on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 23:07

@Nuke is Good wrote:
@Nachtsider wrote:No .50 Beo? Evil

Dear lord, but the .30 carbine round has terrible penetrating power.

If the M1 Carbine used the .30, I heard stories that the carbine was so weak in Korea that they wiped the slugs from their jackets.

Truly a fake story, I have taken down big game and it even went through a bullet proof vest that I had a long time ago.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by MikhailN on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 23:21

Resent anime fan wrote:
@Piero wrote:Given that the Kriss is
promoted as "The first major breakthrough in automatic weapons
operating system design in more then 120 years," I'm not sure the
knocking is entirely undeserved...

A good shooter knows
better than just to belive whatever it is that some guy/girl (with or
without military experience) about a weapon.

Err... that's not entirely correct. If someone told you that this part of the gun is the bolt handle would you believe him? Even if he was absolutely right?

Anyway the Kriss is an unusual design, no matter what you say. Just like the Steyr AUG and SA80 before it, it may just be a trailblazer for the next generation of firearms, just like these two were trailblazers for the bullpup design. Then we'll look back and say, the Kriss was a cool gun. I love hindsight. Very Happy

Resent anime fan wrote:
@Nuke is Good wrote:
@Nachtsider wrote:No .50 Beo? Evil

Dear lord, but the .30 carbine round has terrible penetrating power.

If the M1 Carbine used the .30, I heard stories that the carbine was so weak in Korea that they wiped the slugs from their jackets.

Truly a fake story, I have taken down big game and it even went through a bullet proof vest that I had a long time ago.

We cannot discount that completely. What was the range they were talking about? If the .30 was fired at 2000yards, then I'd believe you if you wiped the bullets off your jacket. However, if you're talking about 100yards then no, you better call an ambulance.

Who knows, maybe the story was propagated by some idiot who misplaced his sniper rifle and used the M1 carbine to replace it

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
MikhailN

Male

Forum Posts : 583

Location : SWA, teaching the little girls to kick rear

Fan of : Triela

Registration date : 2009-06-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 23:58

@MikhailN wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:
@Nuke is Good wrote:
@Nachtsider wrote:No .50 Beo? Evil

Dear lord, but the .30 carbine round has terrible penetrating power.

If the M1 Carbine used the .30, I heard stories that the carbine was so weak in Korea that they wiped the slugs from their jackets.

Truly a fake story, I have taken down big game and it even went through a bullet proof vest that I had a long time ago.

We cannot discount that completely. What was the range they were talking about? If the .30 was fired at 2000yards, then I'd believe you if you wiped the bullets off your jacket. However, if you're talking about 100yards then no, you better call an ambulance.

Who knows, maybe the story was propagated by some idiot who misplaced his sniper rifle and used the M1 carbine to replace it
Actually, I remember hearing of a few cases in the Korean war of this happening.
What was failed to be mentioned was that it was one of the harshest winters in Korean history (-20F temperatures), and equipment kept on freezing. I'm sure that ammo would have a difficult time being fired in those conditions.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If Fernando had Super Powers, He would be God!
avatar
ElfenMagix

Male

Forum Posts : 5682

Location : NYC NY, USA

Fan of : Pia, Elsa, Cleas, Triela...

Original Characters : Fernando & Rachel, Felix & Francesca

Comments : He has super powers. He is God.

Registration date : 2007-09-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by MikhailN on Mon 20 Jul 2009 - 0:18

@ElfenMagix wrote:Actually, I remember hearing of a few cases in the Korean war of this happening.
What was failed to be mentioned was that it was one of the harshest winters in Korean history (-20F temperatures), and equipment kept on freezing. I'm sure that ammo would have a difficult time being fired in those conditions.

Actually that was put in a postwar US Army report. Moreover, when the M1 Carbines were issued to LRRPs (Long Range Recon Patrols. Recon guys that I still suspect involved snipers) they complained of the lack of stopping power at close range.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
MikhailN

Male

Forum Posts : 583

Location : SWA, teaching the little girls to kick rear

Fan of : Triela

Registration date : 2009-06-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 20 Jul 2009 - 0:32

I've heard stories from American Pacific War vets about how Japanese troops kept on charging at them after being shot seven, eight times with M1 Carbines. Those guys be credible, yo.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------





There may be no peace for the wicked, but the righteous can damn well get a piece whenever they feel like it.
avatar
Nachtsider
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD

Male

Forum Posts : 5718

Location : Inside your closet. In your head.

Fan of : Gunslinger Girl, Transformers: Animated

Original Characters : Liesel/Altheus, Meir/Kathryn, Aharon/Nadia, Cosette/Janus

Comments : The Living Legend. Master of Darkness. Trailblazer par excellence. Fear him.

Registration date : 2007-09-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by LoC978 on Mon 20 Jul 2009 - 0:45

Resent anime fan wrote:
@LoC978 wrote:I guess I should've included other .45ACP SMGs, but I was lazy. As for the Kriss being bullshit... ever fire one? Don't knock it 'til you've tried it, bro.
...
the Kriss is an over-hyped firearm
on this, I agree. I hate what modern 'marketing' has done to anything manufactured...
Resent anime fan wrote:There is no need to fire a firearm to know if its shit
I'm sorry to say it, but that is one flatly ignorant statement.
Resent anime fan wrote:I have handled it (a very rare semi-auto one wich is the civilian version)
they're far from rare. I know a dealer in Woodland, WA who keeps four in stock at all times (two CRBs, two SRBs, one of each with a tacpac). just waiting for surplus funding so I can pick up an SRB with a tacpac.
Resent anime fan wrote:and its just does not feel right in the hand and it jams a lot (becuase it damps the recoil too much to the point it wont cycle the action) its just a Future Weapon....weapon. That Mack is sure one dumb SOB.
well, there's nothing you can do about the feel. if it's wrong for ya, then don't bother with 'em. They're a little more comfortable than an MP5 for me, but that's not sayin' much.
...I'll get used to it.
as for jamming... I've never seen one have 1000 rounds put through it or anything, but I have seen 30 rounds go through one as fast as the guy could pull the trigger, no ill effects... and the recoil isn't so much dampened as it is redirected.
Resent anime fan wrote:No offence if you like it (for whatever reason that is)
none taken, I simply disagree with you. drinkin'

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Moderatio est figmentum.
avatar
LoC978
Beach Bum Revolutionary

Male

Forum Posts : 2628

Location : Northwestern USA. Usually Portland.

Fan of : At home- Claes. Abroad- Rico.

Registration date : 2007-09-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by MikhailN on Mon 20 Jul 2009 - 1:51

@Nachtsider wrote:I've heard stories from American Pacific War vets
about how Japanese troops kept on charging at them after being shot
seven, eight times with M1 Carbines. Those guys be credible, yo.

I've heard that from a lot of places. Seems that it's not limited to the M1 Carbine. As for the Japanese during WWII... One British commander reported seeing Ghurkas charging a Japanese machine-gun bunker while taking fire from it, throwing down their rifles in front of the bunker and jumping in with their kukris. They cleared the bunker by hacking up the poor guys. I think the Ghurkas had something right there.

@LoC978 wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:There is no need to fire a firearm to know if its shit
I'm sorry to say it, but that is one flatly ignorant statement.

I missed this statement, if not I would have refuted it too. Marketing and stuff can only tell you so much. It's only when you have the gun firing then you can differentiate between "bloody salesman" and "they sure got something right"

@LoC978 wrote:
Resent anime fan wrote:and its just does not feel right in the hand and it jams a lot (becuase it damps the recoil too much to the point it wont cycle the action) its just a Future Weapon....weapon. That Mack is sure one dumb SOB.
well, there's nothing you can do about the feel. if it's wrong for ya, then don't bother with 'em. They're a little more comfortable than an MP5 for me, but that's not sayin' much.
...I'll get used to it.
as for jamming... I've never seen one have 1000 rounds put through it or anything, but I have seen 30 rounds go through one as fast as the guy could pull the trigger, no ill effects... and the recoil isn't so much dampened as it is redirected.

That's another reason why you need to have to fire the gun to evaluate it. The difference in physique is another thing to think about. Part of the consideration when designing a weapon is actually the physique of the user and since there's so much variation around the world, they usually settle for one and to heck with the rest

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
MikhailN

Male

Forum Posts : 583

Location : SWA, teaching the little girls to kick rear

Fan of : Triela

Registration date : 2009-06-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Awinnell on Mon 20 Jul 2009 - 8:02

Wiki Quotes (lol, i know ! i know!)

The M1 Carbine was issued to infantry officers, machine gun, artillery and tank crews, paratroopers and other line-of-communications personnel in lieu of the larger, heavier M1 Garand. The Carbine and its reduced-power .30 cartridge was not intended to serve as a primary infantry weapon, nor was it comparable to more powerful intermediate cartridges later developed for assault rifles.

A postwar U.S. Army evaluation reported on the weapon's cold-weather shortcomings, and noted complaints of failure to stop heavily-clothed North Korean and Chinese troops at close range after multiple hits.[3]


A standard .30 carbine ball round weighs 110 grains (7.1 g) m and has a muzzle velocity of 1,900 ft/s (580 m/s) giving it 880 foot-pounds (1,190 joules) of energy. By comparison, a .357 Magnum revolver fires the same weight bullet from a 4-inch (100 mm) barrel at about 1,500 ft/s (460 m/s) for about 550 foot-pounds force (750 Nm) of energy, though it is important to note that the .357 bullet is larger in diameter (caliber) and is normally an expanding or hollow-point design.[1] The .30 carbine was developed from the .32 Winchester Self-Loading used in an early semi-auto sporting rifle; both rounds are comparable to the .32-20 Winchester round used in carbines and revolvers.

The popularity of the M1 Carbine for collecting, sporting, and re-enactment use has resulted in continued civilian popularity of the .30 Carbine cartridge. For hunting, it is considered a small-game cartridge, of marginal power for deer-size game.[2] Even in long-barreled carbines, military-style full metal jacket projectiles do not expand, causing little tissue damage. In addition, the high sectional density of the projectile causes the bullet to overpenetrate.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


We are living in the smelly cloud of gods fart,one day the universe will end in a great cloud of airfreshener
avatar
Awinnell
Stiff Upper Lip

Male

Forum Posts : 2131

Location : Hereford,England

Fan of : Triela,asuka

Original Characters : not yet

Comments : Loves to quote Wikipedia. Loves to use exclamation marks even more.

wish i knew who put that in there, it wasn't me !!!!!!!!!!!!


Registration date : 2008-05-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Difference of ammo

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum