Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 6 May 2009 - 11:19

Oddly enough, while Italy is said to have the most advanced medical technology on Earth in the GSG universe, it sure looks like that Genetic Engineering is not an area they have any excellence in.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 6 May 2009 - 11:45

Ya gotta wonder why Yu picked Italy, of all places. As opposed to the standard fare of setting the story in his own country, or a fictitious locale.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 6 May 2009 - 12:54

@Nachtsider wrote:Ya gotta wonder why Yu picked Italy, of all places. As opposed to the standard fare of setting the story in his own country, or a fictitious locale.

Well Italy is one of the most politically fractious countries on Earth, so it does make a certain sense that a rich businessman could buy his way into power and then take advantage of that friction to keep himself there (since Italy has no term limits - as long as the PM's party can survive Votes of Confidence, he's PM). Italy also has literally dozens of special forces / police units tasked to anti-terrorism and the Padania region has historically tried to seek independence from the rest of the country. Throw in the Mafia control of the south and a weak central government and, for a drama and action series, why not use Italy? Smile

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 6 May 2009 - 20:05

Point. But I bet a lot of people thought (at least at some point in time) that the choice of country seemed a bit out of left field.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by boomer_gonz on Wed 6 May 2009 - 20:29

True, but that was simply a part of the subtle charm that drew us to GSG.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 6 May 2009 - 20:30

Well... yeah. The whole premise is kinda out of left field, anyway. Razz

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by West Nile on Wed 6 May 2009 - 23:16

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Nachtsider wrote:Ya gotta wonder why Yu picked Italy, of all places. As opposed to the standard fare of setting the story in his own country, or a fictitious locale.

Well Italy is one of the most politically fractious countries on Earth, so it does make a certain sense that a rich businessman could buy his way into power and then take advantage of that friction to keep himself there (since Italy has no term limits - as long as the PM's party can survive Votes of Confidence, he's PM). Italy also has literally dozens of special forces / police units tasked to anti-terrorism and the Padania region has historically tried to seek independence from the rest of the country. Throw in the Mafia control of the south and a weak central government and, for a drama and action series, why not use Italy? Smile

oooor, based on Yu Aida's other works, 2 of the favorite things of Yu Aida in this world is Lolis and ITALY

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 7 May 2009 - 0:03

@West Nile wrote:oooor, based on Yu Aida's other works, 2 of the favorite things of Yu Aida in this world is Lolis and ITALY

I though Danjo3 was supposed to be the Voice of Reason around here? Razz

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by maverick375 on Thu 7 May 2009 - 0:10

But it's sooooooo scenic!!!
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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by West Nile on Thu 7 May 2009 - 0:10

i'm no voice of reason i'm the Westnilepedia, i provide answers

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Tommygunner70 on Thu 7 May 2009 - 4:04

@West Nile wrote:i'm no voice of reason i'm the Westnilepedia, i provide answers

Your also a decease that no one wants to catch Razz

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by West Nile on Thu 7 May 2009 - 5:46

@Tommygunner70 wrote:
@West Nile wrote:i'm no voice of reason i'm the Westnilepedia, i provide answers

Your also a decease that no one wants to catch Razz

ya, so stay away from mosquitos Very Happy

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 7 May 2009 - 22:03

lol!

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by boomer_gonz on Fri 8 May 2009 - 8:32

@West Nile wrote:
@Tommygunner70 wrote:
@West Nile wrote:i'm no voice of reason i'm the Westnilepedia, i provide answers

Your also a decease that no one wants to catch Razz

ya, so stay away from mosquitos Very Happy


And...you know...stairs.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Danjo3 on Sat 9 May 2009 - 9:57

@West Nile wrote:oooor, based on Yu Aida's other works, 2 of the favorite things of Yu Aida in this world is Lolis and ITALY
I get the distinct impression that Yu is an Italian trapped in a Japanese body.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Awinnell on Sat 9 May 2009 - 11:57

If Yu is an Italian i guess he appoints models to his cabinet and go to a girls 18th birthday party ,like Berlusconi !

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Tommygunner70 on Sat 9 May 2009 - 12:10

@Danjo3 wrote:
I get the distinct impression that Yu is an Italian trapped in a Japanese body.

There have been plenty of people who were girls trapped in a mans body. Guess that Yu is shit outta luck then as there isn't any plastic surgery who can make him look Italian. (unless you want to end up as Michael Jackson.)

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 9 May 2009 - 14:09

:lol!:

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by boomer_gonz on Sat 9 May 2009 - 17:26

@Tommygunner70 wrote:
@Danjo3 wrote:
I get the distinct impression that Yu is an Italian trapped in a Japanese body.

There have been plenty of people who were girls trapped in a mans body. Guess that Yu is shit outta luck then as there isn't any plastic surgery who can make him look Italian. (unless you want to end up as Michael Jackson.)

WHOO!!!!

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by West Nile on Sat 9 May 2009 - 23:31

i guess that's how we track the guy

Fan: what's and italian dude doing in japan?
Person: Im Japanese!
Fan: Yu? is that you?
Yu aida: sweat

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Tommygunner70 on Sun 10 May 2009 - 8:39

@West Nile wrote:i guess that's how we track the guy

Fan: what's and italian dude doing in japan?
Person: Im Japanese!
Fan: Yu? is that you?
Yu aida: sweat

:lol!:

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 10 May 2009 - 9:29

@Tommygunner70 wrote:There have been plenty of people who were girls trapped in a mans body. Guess that Yu is shit outta luck then as there isn't any plastic surgery who can make him look Italian. (unless you want to end up as Michael Jackson.)
Maybe he could find an Italian dude who has Japanese envy, and the two of them could do a brain transplant.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Tommygunner70 on Sun 10 May 2009 - 11:49

@Danjo3 wrote:Maybe he could find an Italian dude who has Japanese envy, and the two of them could do a brain transplant.

I doubt that that's possible...

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 10 May 2009 - 13:21

@Tommygunner70 wrote:
@Danjo3 wrote:Maybe he could find an Italian dude who has Japanese envy, and the two of them could do a brain transplant.

I doubt that that's possible...
Only in the pages of GsG is that possible... maybe Evil

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by boomer_gonz on Sun 10 May 2009 - 22:33

The rebirth of Elsa!!!

LOLWUTOMGWTFBBQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 10 May 2009 - 23:22

Elsa di Sica (2.0)...
See, anything is possible in GsG!

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Tommygunner70 on Mon 11 May 2009 - 19:39

@boomer_gonz wrote:The rebirth of Elsa!!!

Lol, I know its way too early to give out this spoiler but.

Spoiler:
In LOTS Episode 3, Sora and Thomas' Daughter is named Elsa but she doesn't have anything in common with Elsa de Sica.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 11 May 2009 - 21:47

:lol!:

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Probit Return on Sun 17 May 2009 - 14:01

Yes, anything is possible in GSG. I'm not going to lie, Life After Death's sole reason for being created was to bring Elsa back to life. Putting her through Hell in the mean time is just an extra plus.

Off topicness! Yay!

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 17 May 2009 - 19:42

Some one had to do it, Probit!
I remember getting chewed out for my Elsa's Xmas Story for making Lauro look like the good guy for once, even though Elsa kills him before she found out!

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 17 May 2009 - 20:01

The interesting thing is, at least to me, in the manga Jose and Jean both said the Lauro-Elsa fratello was one of the best in the SWA...

It's one of the reasons why in my OC universe I would be inclined to ignore the anime and just operate with Lauro being aloof, but not abusive/cruel and Elsa just suffering from a "programming error" that caused her affection for him to become psychotic, leading her to commit murder-suicide.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by West Nile on Mon 18 May 2009 - 0:21

well if ever the SWA had a choice, everyone would probably vote for having Angie brought back 1st, that's if they don't cremate dead cyborgs as we saw in Angie's case...

If padania had the option though they'd probably bring back Pino, cyborg Pino FTW!!!

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Whatface on Mon 18 May 2009 - 2:57

@West Nile wrote:If padania had the option though they'd probably bring back Pino, cyborg Pino FTW!!!
cyborg Pino with adamantium blades

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by West Nile on Mon 18 May 2009 - 3:20

ow no, i'd imagine cyborg pino to be like bullseye

bullseye- the ability to turn any object to a lethal projectile

cyborg pino- the ability to turn any sharp object to a lethal weapon!! DEATH BY PAPER CUT!!

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 18 May 2009 - 3:54

@Kiskaloo wrote:The interesting thing is, at least to me, in the manga Jose and Jean both said the Lauro-Elsa fratello was one of the best in the SWA...

It's one of the reasons why in my OC universe I would be inclined to ignore the anime and just operate with Lauro being aloof, but not abusive/cruel and Elsa just suffering from a "programming error" that caused her affection for him to become psychotic, leading her to commit murder-suicide.
'Best' probably meant they were good at their job, not good friends.

Making Lauro the 'good guy' takes the human drama out of the whole story and cheapens Elsa's death, if you ask me.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by boomer_gonz on Mon 18 May 2009 - 4:15

Neglect can be abuse as well, and that is where I place Lauro.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 18 May 2009 - 10:08

@Nachtsider wrote:'Best' probably meant they were good at their job, not good friends.

That is what I interpreted the statement to mean. However, if Lauro constantly treated her like dirt and it made her constantly flustered and ineffectual like we saw in the anime, then they wouldn't be "the best".

Making Lauro the 'good guy' takes the human drama out of the whole story and cheapens Elsa's death, if you ask me.

Maybe that is the difference. I don't consider Elsa as a noble person deserving a noble and meaningful death. I prefer the manga because it left the whole situation ambiguous, but also a bit (IMO) creepy with Henrietta's (clairvoyant) recitation of what happened and the reasons why.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 18 May 2009 - 10:17

It was only due to Elsa observing and comparing Giuseppe's treatment of Henrietta to Lauro's treatment of her that Elsa floundered. Personally, I feel she was not aware of this disparity until that very moment, and had hitherto accepted Lauro's harshness as being perfectly normal, possibly even regarded as what every handler expressed. Hence, she performed fine until discovering that she was being mistreated.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 18 May 2009 - 11:40

@boomer_gonz wrote:Neglect can be abuse as well, and that is where I place Lauro.
In NYC/NYS Child Welfare Laws, there are 4 types of Abuse: Physical, Mental, Emotional and Sexual. Neglect falls under Physical, Mental and Emotional. But yes, I agree.

@Nachtsider wrote:It was only due to Elsa observing and comparing Giuseppe's treatment of Henrietta to Lauro's treatment of her that Elsa floundered. Personally, I feel she was not aware of this disparity until that very moment, and had hitherto accepted Lauro's harshness as being perfectly normal, possibly even regarded as what every handler expressed. Hence, she performed fine until discovering that she was being mistreated.
I think I said that a long time ago, but stating that this became de-facto after Lauro going through burn-out. He trained her to be a competitant assassin, and were on missions since Episode 3/ V1 Ch2 "The Lauro/Elsa team is preparing a perp.."

With his burnout, he took it all out on Elsa, but she took it as normal. But she may have sensed something was wrong but twisted it about with taking it out on the girls. It was only whe, like Natch said, Elsa saw how Jose treated Henrietta, did she blew a cyber fuse in that little carbon fiber skull or her. In this, she decided to test him in the park, where he failed and she scored him apprprieately- in lead and red blood.


Last edited by ElfenMagix on Mon 18 May 2009 - 11:41; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 18 May 2009 - 11:40

Elsa and Henrietta strike me as being the youngest girls (in terms of age at conversion - I am guessing around 10) so perhaps they don't have the emotional grounding to properly deal with being compelled to love someone. Henrietta strikes me as being infatuated with Jose and I feel the anime implies the same for Elsa towards Lauro.

I feel Jose treats Henrietta as the reincarnation of Enrica and showers her with attention out of a sense of guilt at not being there when Enrica was killed. Because of this attention, Henrietta's infatuation is "fulfilled" and she feels he loves her like she loves him (in a familial way) and therefore she's able to keep it together.

Lauro, on the other hand, doesn't shower Elsa with attention (the manga states this and the anime chooses to expand it into more of an abusive situation) so her infatuation isn't "fulfilled". The manga states she was a very effective operative, if aloof.

If I were to write about her motivations, I would be inclined to believe that she was aloof because she focused all her efforts on trying to get Lauro to "love" her. She didn't have time to do "girly things" with the others because she focused on being the perfect cyborg, hoping that would be what would get Lauro to "love" her. I think Danjo3 hit on her motivations in part in his story Quiet Desperation (even if he wrote it as if Henrietta was teamed with Lauro).

Eventually, she came to believe that she would never be "good enough" for him to "love" her. I think at that point she decided to take her own life, and then to murder him, as well.

Did she do it so they could be together in death like they could not in life?

Did she do it because she felt that when she died, she was afraid Lauro might come to regret to not loving her and making her take her life and she wanted to spare him that (possible) pain?

Did she do it because her love turned into hate and she wanted to murder him for making her take her own life?

Henrietta gave her own reason why she would do such a thing, and she believes Elsa did it for the same reasons. I imagine if anyone knew Elsa, it would be Henrietta, because she is somewhat nosy and pushy that way. But just how well she did know Elsa is unknown.

As is Elsa's reasons for doing it. And I'm okay with that. A little "unsolvable mystery" now and then isn't bad, IMO.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 18 May 2009 - 12:06

Thumbs Up Kisk.

Only thing that strikes me is that Henrietta knew too much in the Amine. I think the reason being is that the med-techs tried to take Elsa's memroy engrams and put them into Henrietta and find out what happened. Once they got enough to explain why in their report, they tried to erase those memories (but failed), and gave Jose and Henrietta a vacation so she would heal with no triggers to wake up Elsa's memories. Thats how I see it, though I agree with most of what you say.

In Petra and the Second Gen's case, they now have technology to record memory emgrams and display what happened on a computer, but before this, they had to put into into another cyborg to find out what happened. Henrietta was choosen for unknown reasons but one could speculate:
-Angie's too sick.
-Claes was going through her own thing and the SWA did not want an out of control cyborg
-Triela Was out with Hillshire getting Mario.
-Rico - nobody touches Rico except for Jean.

- Henrietta is the most handled of the bunch though she does fly of the handle at times. Handled does not mean conditioned, it means that Jose has a controlling hand on her, though not a firm one at times. Henrietta will listen to Jose where Angie and Triela had not to their resepctive handlers. Dont know if this is making sense here... but Henrietta was probably choosen for a memory transplant because Jose would be best in dealing with it. The vacation was just a tactic to get Henrietta to clear her mind. If Henrietta is one of the youngest cyborgs (not youngest child), this would probably also explain her memory failure of this time as stated in recent chapters. If going by age, Triela should be going through memory issues right now and not Henrietta.

There are just too many pieces to sort out through.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 18 May 2009 - 12:41

@ElfenMagix wrote:Only thing that strikes me is that Henrietta knew too much in the Amine. I think the reason being is that the med-techs tried to take Elsa's memroy engrams and put them into Henrietta and find out what happened. Once they got enough to explain why in their report, they tried to erase those memories (but failed), and gave Jose and Henrietta a vacation so she would heal with no triggers to wake up Elsa's memories.

That strikes me as a rather extreme step for the medical staff to take.

I prefer the simpler idea that Henrietta and Elsa were similar in age and Henrietta saw in Elsa the same type and strength of feelings she herself had. She knew Lauro did not treat Elsa as nice as Jose treated her so she felt a sort of empathy for Elsa and decided that Elsa would have acted the same way Henrietta would if Jose did not love her like she loved him.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by West Nile on Tue 19 May 2009 - 6:44

or maybe the Elsa thing can be triggered by all cyborgs when they feel that their handlers don't love them. remember that Henrietta only says "i think i know how Elsa died" after she starts speculating that Joze won't love her. so i guess the same will apply for all the girls except that:

Henrietta: gets smothered by Joze
Triela: pretty much gets the same treatment
Claes: does not have a handler
Rico: is satisfied with Jean just talking to her and giving her orders (im starting to think that maybe they have a S&M thing going on there)
Beatrice: seems to be sattisfied with her handler
And Petra: gets screwed all the time

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 19 May 2009 - 6:54

Elsa looks a good year or two older than Etta to me. I'm also inclined to think Etta's older than Rico, although not by any more than a few months.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by West Nile on Tue 19 May 2009 - 6:58

Hmm? i thought you said that Rico was older than Etta... or did i get your time line wrong

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 19 May 2009 - 7:12

Oh, I've always said Etta was a few months older than Rico. But also that they have the same birth year, and that Rico was selected by the SWA first.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 19 May 2009 - 9:11

Henrietta just strikes me as being younger then Rico (who was 11 when she was converted per her dialogue), probably because she is so much taller.

Then again, who knows. I mean Angelica as a cyborg looks like Triela (13-ish), but in her flashback scenes when she was assaulted she looks like more like 9.

And Claes could be 10 (based on the picture in her file), but she seems older.

I've had to pick hard dates for my OC universe and they match what I think the girls are in the anime and manga based on my best observations, but I admit they're just guesses (except for Rico).

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 1 Aug 2009 - 9:45

Just an FYI, but the Funimation box set of -Il Teatrino- shipped today.

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Danjo3 on Sat 1 Aug 2009 - 9:56

@Kiskaloo wrote:Just an FYI, but the Funimation box set of -Il Teatrino- shipped today.
I wonder if that will push Amazonís ship date up?

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Re: Gunslinger Girl -Il Teatrino- Discussion

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 1 Aug 2009 - 10:26

Mine came from The Right Stuff.

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