The Global Military Solutions Navy

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The Global Military Solutions Navy

Post by SPARTAN 119 on Mon 28 Sep 2009 - 0:08

I was wondering what you thought of this idea for two vessels for the naval branch of Global Military Solutions, the PMC in my upcoming fic.

The GMS Artemis: A truly massive aircraft carrier built on an uparmored hull of of a supertanker. On the outside, it would also look like a supertanker, the difference not being apparent until two large hatches on the deck open up to reveal 25 helicopters and 25 F-35 Joint Strike Fighters. I got the idea from a similar vessel that makes a brief appearance in the first episode of Black Lagoon (the one that deploys the attack chopper). The vessel's name is a reference to Artemis Global Security, a PMC in the video game Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X

The GMS Tamerlane: A similar idea to the Artemis, only armed with a massive number of cruise missiles under the deck. Named for the PMC Tamerlane from the movie War Inc.

So, what do you think, cool idea, not so cool idea?
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Re: The Global Military Solutions Navy

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 28 Sep 2009 - 0:11

I highly doubt a PMC would be allowed to purchase F-35s.

You might want to go with a Russian or French naval model.

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Re: The Global Military Solutions Navy

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 28 Sep 2009 - 0:15

Alternatively, you could give GMS a squadron of F-14s. Just say that the Navy sold their aging Tomcats instead of scrapping them.

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Re: The Global Military Solutions Navy

Post by LoC978 on Mon 28 Sep 2009 - 1:02

hell, even Iran has F-14s...


so uh, yeah. what I'm trying to say is... F-14s= quite plausible for a PMC. even F-16s might be, if this happens a few years down the road.

...this got me thinkin', though... what kinda PMC needs superiority fighters? it's not like they tend to lock horns with any first-world military... so it's doubtful they'd face off against any aircraft... except for maybe older russian helicopters (which has been done to death in fiction... 'cause it's plausible).

they'd probably be better served by gettin' their hands on some A-10s (or, on the outer edge of plausibility, F/A-18s).


oi... on-topic:
converted supertankers with enclosed decks= Full of Win

...be a bitch to land a fixed-wing aircraft on, though. possible, but difficult.

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Re: The Global Military Solutions Navy

Post by Alfisti on Mon 28 Sep 2009 - 1:49

Well, seeing as super-tankers are currently a dime a dozen thanks to the global credit crunch, the ship choice is entirely plausible. I read something in the paper the other day that apparently over 12% of the world's shipping fleet is just swinging around at anchor with nothing to do... most of it just down the coast from Singapore...

...personally I was thinking just that would make a cool setting for my own characters to go to but I guess it actually has all sorts of story implications.
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Re: The Global Military Solutions Navy

Post by Piero on Mon 28 Sep 2009 - 2:13

I don't think the US would be keen to export sensitive F-14 parts. The regime that was in power in Iran when those F-14s were purchased was a US ally. Which I guess just goes to show that maybe exporting sensitive hardware to a country with significant internal issues isn't always such a smart idea. (Supposedly one of the big reasons for the Iranian acquisitions of F-14s was to deal with violations of their airspace by MiG-25 Foxbats from another country. The F-14 isn't as fast as the MiG-25, but I guess it was seen as capable enough to be a detterent.)

Odd thing I once read: since Canada maintained diplomatic relations with Iran and was looking for a new fighter, and the Iranians had a spare parts issue, it looked for a time like we might have bought those F-14s off them. Then they found out our diplomatic people had been helping covertly evacuate some leftover Americans and got pissed, so we ended up purchasing the CF-18s from you guys instead. Laughing

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Re: The Global Military Solutions Navy

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 28 Sep 2009 - 8:34

Piero wrote:I don't think the US would be keen to export sensitive F-14 parts. The regime that was in power in Iran when those F-14s were purchased was a US ally. Which I guess just goes to show that maybe exporting sensitive hardware to a country with significant internal issues isn't always such a smart idea. (Supposedly one of the big reasons for the Iranian acquisitions of F-14s was to deal with violations of their airspace by MiG-25 Foxbats from another country. The F-14 isn't as fast as the MiG-25, but I guess it was seen as capable enough to be a detterent.)

Odd thing I once read: since Canada maintained diplomatic relations with Iran and was looking for a new fighter, and the Iranians had a spare parts issue, it looked for a time like we might have bought those F-14s off them. Then they found out our diplomatic people had been helping covertly evacuate some leftover Americans and got pissed, so we ended up purchasing the CF-18s from you guys instead. Laughing

The F14 issue is in 2 parts. One, the plane itself. Though not as fast as a Mig25, it was superior in handling and manuverability. Then there is the issue of Titanium parts in the F14, which makes scraping one a gold mine.

The other system is the radar/weapons systems. No other weapons systems outside the US to this date can lock on to multiple targets and fire, hitting each one. When the US left Iran in the 1970s with the ousting of the Shah of Iran, there were not enough F-14 pilots to take back all those planes. Instead, they took back what they could: electronic components, weapons, spare parts, etc off the planes, then sabotage what they could. Thus they left a fixable/flyable shell of an aircraft if they could get the parts. If not, the Iranians would have taken those F14s and attacked Israel a long time ago.

Such a private organization as this proposed here would not be able to get an F14; nor if I was the head of one, get them. Though still a viable weapons system, the F14 is outdated and beginning to show its age in term of more maintenance it requires. If anything, I would walk into an aircraft manufacturer, pose as a US Ally and make purchase of what new goodies they have on the drawing board and have them shipped to a port of my choice.

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Re: The Global Military Solutions Navy

Post by SPARTAN 119 on Mon 28 Sep 2009 - 10:54

I chose F35s because I needed something that could VTOL launch out of a hanger that is not level with the top deck and still hold it's own against a Eurofighter of the Italian Air Force. Although, I suppose I could use some kind of combination of a ramp and catapult system to ramp an F14 out of the lower hanger deck. Or just abandon any attempt to disguise the GMS Artemis as a tanker and make it a conventional carrier. And then, there is also the Boeing X-32 I suppose they it might be possible to get a few of those back in production if some money changed hand....
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Re: The Global Military Solutions Navy

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 28 Sep 2009 - 11:46

SPARTAN 119 wrote:I chose F35s because I needed something that could VTOL launch out of a hanger that is not level with the top deck and still hold it's own against a Eurofighter of the Italian Air Force.

An F-35 is likely not going to survive head-to-head against a Typhoon. The F-35 is designed to go in after the F-22's have destroyed all of the enemy's fighter assets.

I don't care how big a PMC is, they are not going to get a Generation 5 fighter like the F-22 and the F-35. It's just not going to happen.

The F-14 is a missile sled. It was designed to mount the AIM-154 Phoenix to perform long-range shoot-downs of massed Soviet cruise missile attacks. Once AEGIS was deployed (first on the Ticonderoga CG and then the Arleigh Burke DG) and the Soviet Union collapsed, the need for the F-14 evaporated and they were pulled from the Fleet.

With a supertanker as a carrier platform, you can launch and recover non-STOL/VTOL fighters. So I recommend they use the French Dassault Rafale M which is used on the CVN Charles de Gaulle (R91). The French are still mercenaries at heart, so they'd sell their top-end stuff to a private contractor for the right price. And like the Typhoon, the Rafale is a Generation 4.5 fighter.

I am sure they could also acquire Mikoyan MiG-29Ks or Sukhoi Su-33s.


And then, there is also the Boeing X-32 I suppose they it might be possible to get a few of those back in production if some money changed hand....

You'd need some serious money, since I worked on the X-32 RFP and our prototypes were effectively hand-built. So they'd need to set up a full production line and secure suppliers and everything else.

Not that Boeing or the US Defense and Commerce Departments would allow such a thing to happen in the first place, of course. Wink

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Re: The Global Military Solutions Navy

Post by LoC978 on Mon 28 Sep 2009 - 14:07

SPARTAN 119 wrote:I chose F35s because I needed something that could VTOL launch out of a hanger that is not level with the top deck and still hold it's own against a Eurofighter of the Italian Air Force. Although, I suppose I could use some kind of combination of a ramp and catapult system to ramp an F14 out of the lower hanger deck.
no need. make a hatch in the side of the hull for launching/receiving fighters. like I said, it'd be a pain in the ass to land, but it's possible (also, make an egress hatch for fighters who come in too fast and have to try again).
also. for hatches, I'm thinking a majority of the front and back of the tanker opening up, and maybe about 10 meters tall.

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Re: The Global Military Solutions Navy

Post by Awinnell on Mon 28 Sep 2009 - 14:41

this sounds more and more like the spy who loved me

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Re: The Global Military Solutions Navy

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 28 Sep 2009 - 15:02

You can get an abandoned Super Tanker for next to nothing. Nations who have them basically want to get rid of the eye sores off its shores! Places like Norway and Russia at the Arctic Ocean has many of them (and other ships no longer in service).

Refitting it with a reactor to power the thing is a another matter, as would rebuilding such a ship from the derelick condition it was found in. This would run costs into the tens of millions of dollars, but still doable.

Then when you have the ship sea worthy and sailing again, there is the question of running up against navies that would want to see that this ship is all about. The US Navy does not monitor this area for nothing...

Citing this example, it is easily doable:
Knock Nevis Supertanker
Length: 458.5 m / 1,504 ft
Displacement: 564,763
Built By: Sumitomo Heavy Industries

With a deck of almost 1500 ft... ooo the fun one can have!

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Re: The Global Military Solutions Navy

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 28 Sep 2009 - 18:35

The very obsolescence of the Tomcat is what I think would make the Navy perfectly willing to sell them, Elfen. Especially if the PMC in question is in their good books.

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Re: The Global Military Solutions Navy

Post by boomer_gonz on Mon 28 Sep 2009 - 18:47

True enough. If the US military can pay in trade instead of forking over cold, hard cash; they'll do it.

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