So we all know they're bullet resistant...

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 4 Oct 2007 - 13:21

@emperor wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:Some of those people in Wikipedia should be shot!
They removed all the pretty pictures!

Really? What pics?:face:
Gunslinger Girl Wikipedia had the pictures of all the handlers and cyborgs there. As of 09/13/07, all but two were removed, and some of the data updated. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gunslinger_Girl_characters
(linking text does not seem to work on wikipedia links)

Who ever did that needs to be dragged out of his computing chair and shot.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by LoC978 on Thu 4 Oct 2007 - 18:05

They were probably screencaps used without permission (from the publisher), using imageshack or somesuch. Wikipedia gets bitchy about copyright infringement.
just look at all the shit that goes along with using this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Characters_of_Gunslinger_Girl.jpg

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 4 Oct 2007 - 20:54

That is so sad, considering that Japan and many other Asian countries do not care about copyrights, and tend to steal ideas from other sources and call it their own.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by emperor on Thu 4 Oct 2007 - 22:36

At least Jose still there with his sister! Smile

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 10 Oct 2007 - 22:46

That they are...

Anyway- how about getting hit by a Mack Truck and dragged like the first Ternimator was?

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 10 Oct 2007 - 22:54

I recall Rico survived being hit by a car, but I feel that being hit by an eighteen-wheeler would cause serious damage. Durable though the girls may be, I doubt they're as durable as Mr. T-101.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Wileama on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 7:13

Hit by a car is going to kill with blunt force trauma. However I hadn't though of that specifically.

I thought all the idea's had dried up, but a part of me enjoys the morbid challenge. Tied to the train tracks like a damsel in distress...

\\Goes off to plot

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 11:26

Today's aerodymanically shaped cars kill in an instant; the short slopping hoods forces the person being struck to hit their head against the windshield and its frame, cause massive head trauma. Its to unlike an older car, where you bounce off the hood first and then roll off it.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by LoC978 on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 11:33

my brother was hit by a pickup truck when we were teenagers. most of the damage that was done to him happened when he hit the groud (broken clavicle)
Today's aerodymanically shaped cars kill in an instant;
ah, another reason to hate new cars. give me a mid-60s chevy any day.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 21:01

I'll take my early '70s Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouths

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Nachtsider on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 22:02

The only car I can identify at a glance and without looking at the make symbol is the Volkswagen Beetle.
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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 11 Oct 2007 - 23:54

@Nachtsider wrote:The only car I can identify at a glance and without looking at the make symbol is the Volkswagen Beetle.

Pre 1984 Rear Engined Aircooled or Post 1998 Front Watercooled? :twisted:
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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 12 Oct 2007 - 0:07

Both.

Hell, I never even knew where the engine was, or whatever the dickens they used to cool it with.
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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by LoC978 on Fri 12 Oct 2007 - 1:56

quick, what's the year of the camaro in my uncle's paintbooth?
Pre 1984 Rear Engined Aircooled or Post 1998 Front Watercooled
I refuse to accept that the one in bold is a Volkwagen Beetle. Just as the 'new Mini' isn't a mini at all (it's a shortened BMW 3 series) Razz
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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 12 Oct 2007 - 8:08

@LoC978 wrote:quick, what's the year of the camaro in my uncle's paintbooth?
Pre 1984 Rear Engined Aircooled or Post 1998 Front Watercooled
I refuse to accept that the one in bold is a Volkwagen Beetle. Just as the 'new Mini' isn't a mini at all (it's a shortened BMW 3 series) Razz

The Camaro looks like a '69-'73. Cant tell, need more view of the grill to be sure. The '69-'70 had exposed headlights. the '72-'73 had retractable headlight covers.

I agree with you on your statement. I've own 3 aircooled VW in my day and looking for a 4th for next summer. The new VWs are nothing more than rabbit/golfs with a beetle shell.
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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by LoC978 on Fri 12 Oct 2007 - 8:11

it's a '67. the RS model that year had retractable headlight covers as well.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 12 Oct 2007 - 8:47

OK. Interesting... Needed to see more of the grill. The body itself changes little; the major changes occur in the nose and tailgate of the vehicle.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Guest on Thu 29 Nov 2007 - 2:06

[quote=]Don't know about a chainsaw. They have trouble eating carbon fiber.[/quote]
Correction: carbon frames. Carbon fibers make up the muscles (though still extremelytough). Idk... how easy is it for a chainsaw to eat through a bicycle?

Hydyroshock bullets sound interesting... but I'm having trouble finding info on them. Are they widely used, and are they cost effective?

I'm not sure how effective chemical or biological weapons would be against mechanical children with artificial organs, or even radiation. My fanfiction, incidentally, depicts cyborgs as being immune to poison gas, germs and radiation, but vulnerable to highly corrosive substances. I've seen chemicals that can melt titanium - I imagine that kind of stuff could harm a cyborg.
... Did I use acids on the girls? I know Wallez did on Triela before she became a cyborg...

Some poisons may defeated in this manner, some may not, some may work at reduced effectiveness.
If most of their bodies are made up of carbon frames and carbon fibers, they could either be extremely resilliant or extremely vulnerable. There's arguements either way, though its largely believed they're not very vulnerable to these (but not completely immune either).

This topic suddenly turned... extremely morbid....
Morbid? Where? Oh. My sense of morbid is different from most.

You've never saw movies like Saw III, devils rejects, house of a 1000 corpses have you?
No... but I'm sure some of you have read some stories of mine in the past...


Oh well, might as well quote myself here too:

Triela took a near-direct hit of a 120mm cannon (Israeli Merkava tank), and another nearly ripped apart my cyborg, Carol (not sure how many of you actually remember that). This was in an earlier story called “The Gun, The Heart, The Duty” as the girls battled the infamous Covenant Reformation Group, who tried invading and taking over the Vatican using stolen weapons and vehicles from Israel (one of which were Merkava Mk4 tanks).

G.D. Wallez, a villain of mine, nearly killed all of the girls almost single-handedly.

1. He developed “Antistimulum” using a complex mixture of acids that dematerializes the conditioning drugs (which makes the girls somewhat immune to pain), and slowly gives the girls back their past memories. In addition, they amplify the sensory organs of touch, so the girls feel pain as they would like any other human being.
Wallez put the Antistimulum in darts.

2. With a mole inside the agency, he set traps for the girls (fake missions) in the places of their origins (Henrietta’s home where she was raped, Triela’s torture chamber) to help stimulate their memory. He would inject the girls with the darts simply by shooting at them (or their handlers, when the girls would get in the way). After waiting for it to take effect, he (or one of his special agents) attacked, often with catastrophic emotional pain on the girls. He attacked them physically and psychologically. When the girls are shot by a bullet, cut with a knife, or flamed, they feel the pain as normal.

3. His first target was Rico. After attacking her with the darts, he kicked her, and when she was on the ground, he took an ax and cut her deeply 14 times as she curled up in the fetus position and bled.
… Wallez accurately placed Triela on the mission when he determined she would be in the middle of her period. She and Hillshire were searching for the torture chamber her handler found her at, when Wallez flamed her (one of his agents is armed with a flamer). Wallez reminded Triela that he was the one who actually stripped Triela and nearly killed her—he was also the one who killed Hillshire’s love. I described her as looking like a helpless, humanoid scab screaming in a bloody, white bed.
… Henrietta was next. She and José were to investigate something at her old home, where bloody dummies were placed where her family was killed. Wallez was revealed to be the original person to actually attack her family and personally rape her. After his bodyguards beat on José (not the smartest thing to do with Henrietta watching), even with the Antistimulum in her body, she threw a refrigerator at the attackers and nearly killed Wallez. His cyborg agent defeated her in close combat (as she dodged the flames), and they pinned her for a train to hit her.
… Angelica’s conditioning drugs (a new drug to be tested) was pumped full of thallium poisoning, which slowly tortured her to nearly suicide. She became mad and uncontrollable—she was hiding syringes of the new drugs under her bed as she was addicted to the thallium-tainted drugs.
… Claes was taken by surprise by Wallez’s cyborg agent. With the Antistimulum working in her body, Wallez revealed he set up Rabello’s death by car accident and showed him to her alive and well. “How does it feel, Claes, to know that you’ve been living a lie?” Stunned and unwilling to live, she lets Wallez remove her clothes and attempts to rape her. After he fails, he places her on an electric chair and puts it in a low setting, slowly cooking her body black.

If you think these ideas are new, think again. I wrote these stories two years ago.
-- I spent two months thinking of ways to kill the girls. Don't ask.
But, while all the girls survived (miraculously), Wallez was a very sick man who prefered to slowly kill his enemies rather than simply sever their heads. In addition, the girls, I believe, we very, very lucky.

Worse, while Triela was screaming in Amsterdam (when Dr. Bianchi was on a flight to repair her), Jose calls up and says Henrietta is in critical condition. All this while, Rico is relying heavily on life support, and soon after Claes is on her way to the hospital when everyone discovers that Dr. Bianchi was kidnapped by Wallez.

As Wallez had video monitors on each of the girls, he took delight in their suffering.

Some of those people in Wikipedia should be shot!
Like 'The Oddity' and 'V. Gainsborough'?

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by LoC978 on Thu 29 Nov 2007 - 11:08

@Colonel Marksman wrote:Idk... how easy is it for a chainsaw to eat through a bicycle?
not very. the chainsaw would likely need its chain replaced several times to finish the job. There's a reason that chainsaws are supposed to be used on wood (and flesh, and bone...)

As for the other methods of killing the girls listed here: in my opinion, they could all get the job done. But so could a whole bunch of small caliber bullets.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Wileama on Thu 29 Nov 2007 - 12:28

@Colonel Marksman wrote:If most of their bodies are made up of carbon frames and carbon fibers, they could either be extremely resilliant or extremely vulnerable. There's arguements either way, though its largely believed they're not very vulnerable to these (but not completely immune either).
Some poisons work by interfering with the bloods transport of oxygen. Others attack the nervous system, and brain. These kinds of poisons will not lose their effectiveness on cyborgs, at least not the kind like the girls. As I said blister agents are probably the least effective. Maybe anthrax, and some of the others that act on the lungs. The ones that act on the biochemistry of various organs though, I think you'll see those remain just as affective.

@Colonel Marksman wrote:Triela took a near-direct hit of a 120mm cannon (Israeli Merkava tank), and another nearly ripped apart my cyborg, Carol (not sure how many of you actually remember that). This was in an earlier story called “The Gun, The Heart, The Duty”...
I do not recall reading this story. I remember The Epic, which had a tank. I don't recall any cyborgs dying though.

@Colonel Marksman wrote:G.D. Wallez, a villain of mine, nearly killed all of the girls almost single-handedly.
Again I only recall this character from a short story where his scalp was removed. What happened this these stories your referring to?

@Colonel Marksman wrote:
Some of those people in Wikipedia should be shot!
Like 'The Oddity' and 'V. Gainsborough'?
Jesus fucking christ. I've said it in the other forum, apparently you missed it so let me say this again. You don't need to act like a child, and actively go out of your way to stir the shit storm between yourselves! Christ man, what are you two? Your bickering angers me as it is. I understand that some times people really don't like each other. I'm fine with that. I'm even fine you two occasionally exploding on each other in the middle of some discussion. I can't fucking stand it when you stir up the shit just to watch if fucking spill over. So please: grow up, and fucking stop.

\\Grumbles while climbing into bed.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Guest on Fri 30 Nov 2007 - 2:20

Huh? I'm not posting in very large, bold letters and cursing left and right like an enraged teenager.

I quoted Elfen Matrix. "Some of those people in Wikipedia should be shot!"

V. Gainsborough and The Oddity helped write the Wikipedia article.

If you don't like what I've posted, I'm sorry the truth hurts that much. I have a lot of respect for Wikipedia article contributors (I am a passer-byer contributor, but a contributor, nonetheless). In fact, my comment was aimed at Elfen Matrix as a warning.


You're wanting to know what happened to my stories? I left FF.net. I blocked everyone, removed any possible contact, and deleted all my stories. Why? Because people like V. and Oddity were hurdling personal insults at Nachtsider simply because people liked his stories, and in defense, they said we were worshipping Nachtsider.

The ignorance, childness, rudeness, and pathetic jealousy corrupting the forums encouraged me to leave. They accuse me of begging for attention when I posted. Excuse me, I don't need to beg for attention standing on a hill like I was because I helped build the forum. They accuse me of being difficult to get along with others. The forum was completely fine before they came. It was after they did (and anyone they counted friends) when things get ugly.
In effect, GSG in FF.net was one of my projects and internet brainchildren that began with sensible, mature authors... when people went in there insulting and abusing what I'm doing in there, of course I'm getting offended.

When I left FF.net the first time, activity died within a week. Activity spurred back up again when I returned a month later, reposting many of my stories and promising to revise my older ones. After I eventually left again, the forum's now been more dead than a rock that was never alive and moved here.

'The Epic' story that you see now is actually 40+ chapters long, involves 5 different [related] fanfics (though mostly three major ones), spans 62,000 words, and two years worth of writing (let's see... Fall I posted 'Firepower', Winter I posted 'Gun, Heart, Duty', and Spring-Summer I posted 'Season Finale'. After that, I posted on other stories and bits and peices, through the Fall and Winter, and then left that next Spring, gone all Summer, and now I'm here this Fall. Ah, the memories). Someone made a comment that the stories should've been altogether in one story. Hence the name 'Epic'. Though, I'm thinking about posting it back in its original trio state and simply merge the new chapters in with the old stories.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by LoC978 on Fri 30 Nov 2007 - 2:28

this is why I don't bother reprimanding either side, Wileama. totally blind-fucking-obstinate. pettiness and self-importance all around.
-that's all I have to say on the matter.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Danjo3 on Fri 30 Nov 2007 - 5:37

@Colonel Marksman wrote:When I left FF.net the first time, activity died within a week. Activity spurred back up again when I returned a month later, reposting many of my stories and promising to revise my older ones. After I eventually left again, the forum's now been more dead than a rock that was never alive and moved here.
No offence Colonel, but I really think you place alot more importance on your self then anyone else does. It's nice to have you around, but neither one of the forums pivot on your presence. With or without you, Life Goes On...

Hey, check it out! I just plugged Sheo...

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Wileama on Fri 30 Nov 2007 - 16:01

@Colonel Marksman wrote:If you don't like what I've posted, I'm sorry the truth hurts that much. I have a lot of respect for Wikipedia article contributors (I am a passer-byer contributor, but a contributor, nonetheless). In fact, my comment was aimed at Elfen Matrix as a warning.
Alright, maybe I did over react. Maybe you really did mean it as a warning. However I've noticed you do tend to go out of your way to stir things up with Oddity, and V. Your post certainly could be seen as more of the same. So I apologize. However I do ask you try to avoid starting fights with other board members. Even if that wasn't what you where doing this time, you do seem have a bad habit of it.

@LoC978 wrote:this is why I don't bother reprimanding either side, Wileama. totally blind-fucking-obstinate. pettiness and self-importance all around.
-that's all I have to say on the matter.
Yeah I do see your point.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Guest on Fri 30 Nov 2007 - 16:05

Ok... I think I just saw the dark, evil side of internet chat and communities...

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by LoC978 on Fri 30 Nov 2007 - 16:24

anyone can fall into this trap:

:lol!: -666th post. how appropriate. Muh-m-muhahahaha!
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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Sintendo on Fri 30 Nov 2007 - 17:06

@LoC978 wrote:
-666th post. how appropriate. Muh-m-muhahahaha!

I plan to stop posting once I hit 666 posts Awesome!
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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Guest on Fri 30 Nov 2007 - 17:36

:lol!:

This "John Gabriel" actuall summed it up pretty nicely. I have the pleasure of never being in the middle of any flame war or the like (mostly because I can count the number of forums in which I have posted on the fingers of one hand).

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Guest on Fri 30 Nov 2007 - 23:53

No offence Colonel, but I really think you place alot more importance on your self then anyone else does. It's nice to have you around, but neither one of the forums pivot on your presence. With or without you, Life Goes On...

Hey, check it out! I just plugged Sheo...

There were less than 10 posts in the month I was gone. Less than 5 topics opened up after the second time I left. While it sounds like I'm giving myself importance there, it's simply a factual statement. I can't and haven't changed that. I'm rather surprised.

Example: in the forum story that Tommy, Sheo, Panzer and I did, one week, I was asking that we stop posting so often. The next week, Panzer left. Now we're getting one post a day, and barely anything happens over there now. Whether it was Panzer's direct contribute, or the rest of us adding to, SOMETHING'S missing.

Here, the fathers and mothers of this forum have changed. Imagine what posting would be like if Sheo Darren and Nachtsider just up and left.

Your post certainly could be seen as more of the same. So I apologize. However I do ask you try to avoid starting fights with other board members.
NEVER!!!! sissy slapfighting (though, I should've specified, I'm usually under the impression what I type is understood)

Bah. Nachtsider's here, alive, and well. What do I care? There's some sensible people again.:french2:

I remember back when it was Nachtsider, Sheo Darren, Sintendo, Panzer, Deathra, and I, some of the gals, with a few other of the common authors. Lol, I remember that old post where someone asked how many girls were in there, to which there was a swarm of replies. The surprise answer was rather... daunting... to the poster.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Danjo3 on Sat 1 Dec 2007 - 3:11

The old forum didn't die because you left Colonel, it died because this one opened. Plain and simple. And I don't know if you've noticed, but it's doing quite well - without you.

Now I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here, and I'm not speaking for everyone else, all I'm saying is this - I never once took you into consideration when deciding whether or not I was going to participate in either one of the forums.

If you want to insist that everyone follows your lead, that's fine with me, but I think you're mistaken.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 1 Dec 2007 - 14:07

I have been thinking about this for quite some time; carbon fiber is not as many think. If you go back about a decade- fiberglass was the rage material, in which everything needing strength and light weight was made from it, and if the girls were from10- 20 years ago, they would have have fiberglass frames and fiberglass reinforced bones.

But Fiber Glass has the tendency of fraying apart at an injury or stressed site. The same applies to Carbon Fiber. Thus a gunshot to a blocking arm would do things: weaken the componant in question, and the vibrations caused by the bullet impact. The second will add to the stress injury and spread it out further.

Indeed, there has to be someting along with the carbon fiber to deal with the vibration assoicated with a bullet impact. I remember something back in the mid 80's, an accidental discovery of a material that would aborb 90% of impacted engeries thrown at it. So, back to google I went and went searching Lo & Behold, it even went by the name I remembered it: Sorbothane! A bone wrapped in Sorbothane and Carbon Fiber to have more bullet proofing capabilities than just Carbon Fiber alone.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Guest on Sat 1 Dec 2007 - 14:14

That makes sense. Regular bones are composed of a balance of phosphorus and calcium. Too much phosphorus and teh bone is hard, but also brittle. Too much calcium and you have something that behaves like a rubber. The girls "bones" would likely also be made by combining matterials to provide both strength and relative flexibility/stress resistance.

Also, you can use the right sheer-thickening-liquid. This is a coloid solution ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colloid ) that drastically increases it's density (hardens) when shock is applied. Anotherwords, it's flexible like liquid normally, but if a bullet hits it is hardens into a form of light armor. Once the shock dissipates, it returns to normal.

[edit] Found ref: http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?type=article&article_id=218392807

p.s. - The bone marrow has to be left intact somehow, since otherwise the girls would need regular blood transfusions.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 1 Dec 2007 - 22:37

3klicks wrote:p.s. - The bone marrow has to be left intact somehow, since otherwise the girls would need regular blood transfusions.
Simple: Marrow, inside bone, inside KE Absorber, inside Carbon Fiber.
You would not need much, just enough.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Guest on Sat 1 Dec 2007 - 23:33

I'm not entierly sure how the new red blood cells get into teh blood stream. The simplest way would be through veins, and that would meen you need to thread veins through the fibers and everything, so that they won't be squashed or suptured.

Wait, I guess rubber tubing can replace all that.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 1 Dec 2007 - 23:47

The viens and arteries to the bones are densest at the joints and where muscle/tendons join to it. What ever they did to connect muscle, tendons and nerves to it, they had to do with the other things as well. Micro tubules in the carbon fiber and the KE Absorber would be a way of achiving this.

Too many questions to ask. Cartoon Physics is almost ways the answer.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Wileama on Sun 2 Dec 2007 - 9:52

Ditto on Cartoon Anime physics. I don't think its one of those things your suppose to think to hard about.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Guest on Thu 6 Dec 2007 - 1:04

Carbon fibers make up the muscle.

It's carbon frames that make up the bones.

Someone asked how easy it was to bring a chainsaw through a cyborg, to which I replied, "How easy is it for a chainsaw to cut through a bicycle?"

Carbon fibers are more like thin, steel cables, though stronger than steel. So if your muscles are reinforced with bicycle rails, and your muscles are stronger than steel cables... you can simply imagine.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by LoC978 on Thu 6 Dec 2007 - 1:10

minor clarification: carbon fiber is not so much stronger than steel as it is lighter, with a much better strength-to-weight ratio. even cheap steel still has a better strength-to-volume ratio than carbon fiber, though.


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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Sintendo on Thu 6 Dec 2007 - 1:16

Like spider webs.
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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by boomer_gonz on Thu 6 Dec 2007 - 2:54

Let me ponder on this a bit and I'll get back to you guys.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Wileama on Thu 6 Dec 2007 - 11:21

I think carbon fiber was selected for sounding good, over various material science reasons.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Guest on Thu 6 Dec 2007 - 11:40

Hmm... Maybe I'm missing something key, but is there any explenation as to how the carbon fibers contract?

(Does the manga state that the muscles are carbon fiber? I think it does, but I don't remember, so I wanted to make sure.)

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 6 Dec 2007 - 12:03

The strength of the carbon fiber is 75% to 85% from the fibers itself, but also 15% to 25% from the binding agent being used. Many materials can be used here, some to give elasticity, others to give more strength. More often than not its usually the same binding agent being used in fiberglass.

This is not the best material to work with, since this binding agent is poisonous to humans in long term use.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by boomer_gonz on Thu 6 Dec 2007 - 12:41

Not unless you use a protein carbon polymer. This is "the good stuff" they're using in Swiss and Swedish hospitals.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Guest on Thu 6 Dec 2007 - 12:45

I should clarify. What I meant is that the way our muscles work is that an impulse is sent along our nerves and stimulates the fibers of our muscle tissue to contract. If the cyborgs muscles are completely replaced with carbon fibers how do they actually work? An impulse travels from the brain to the arm and they what happens, was what I was wondering about.

For the muscles to actually work they have to be made up of something that will contract when exposed to a relatively small dosage of electrical stimulation. Or, some other mechanizm has to be in place.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 6 Dec 2007 - 12:53

MIT' Artifical Muscle Project is not the only resource, nor are they the best, but they are the easiest to access too.

The bones would be of carbon fiber, and the muscles of something else that is artifical to the human body.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Guest on Thu 6 Dec 2007 - 14:05

Was responding to this.
ColonelMarksman wrote:Carbon fibers make up the muscle.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 6 Dec 2007 - 18:13

3klicks wrote:Was responding to this.
ColonelMarksman wrote:Carbon fibers make up the muscle.
This is where I find fault with the fiction of science fiction.
Carbon Fibers are not movable, though they can be flexable and strong. Its pretty much an inhert material- no matter how much electrical signal you pump through it, its not going to move. It is because of this inhert property, strengh and light weight that they are used for composite materials on airplanes and race cars. Who remember the days when race cars were made out of magnesium frames and chassis?!! BURN BABY BURN!

I figured that with since their organs and muscles are artifical or synthetic, that these would be the items being used (as in the link I posted for artifical muscle by MIT).

We can argue about it, but we shouldn't. Its all rather pointless if we do.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Guest on Sun 9 Dec 2007 - 0:16

Carbon Fibers are not movable, though they can be flexable and strong.
And? Nothing by itself is moveable. Muscle fibers aren't moveable. Carbon fibers can come 10x smaller than a human hair, which means it can be fitted to the size of muscle fibers (and thus be "entwined"). So, it's either intertwined with muscle tissue, or... well I guess it would have to be, unless there's some way to bring the thought to "move" over to the carbon fibers.

Also, for example, the cyborgs' bones can't be all carbon frame. Something has to produce and recycle red blood cells. Either their bones are grafted with the carbon fiber, reinforced, or (most preferrably) encases the bone.

As for organs, they can be transplanted and replaced, they don't have to be artifical, just healthy (and most organs can't be artifical as their functions are simply too biologically complex).

I can't remember the name of the sci-fi, but there was a guy who smuggled organs using his own body to keep 'em warm.

If this were true, though, it could mean that one of the girls can give up her life to save another of her peer's through donating a vital organ. Just thought that was interesting.


And nobody said we had to argue about it. You can discuss a topic in which you disagree with without arguing. Arguing occurs when somebody's being ignorant and refuses to listen, holding too dearly to their point and not intaking anything the other side is. Besides, discussing the topics are a fun way to bring insight and thought into sci-fi.

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by Wileama on Sun 9 Dec 2007 - 0:58

@Colonel Marksman wrote:And? Nothing by itself is moveable. Muscle fibers aren't moveable. Carbon fibers can come 10x smaller than a human hair, which means it can be fitted to the size of muscle fibers (and thus be "entwined"). So, it's either intertwined with muscle tissue, or... well I guess it would have to be, unless there's some way to bring the thought to "move" over to the carbon fibers.
Well but a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. You wont be doing anything to increase the tensile strength of the muscle. Further more since the Carbon fiber wont contract, it wont provide any power. So there is no net gain for putting carbon fiber in. There are artificial muscles made from advanced plastics. These materials do contract, and I believe their stronger then normal muscle tissue. So that's what you want to build the muscle with.

@Colonel Marksman wrote:Also, for example, the cyborgs' bones can't be all carbon frame. Something has to produce and recycle red blood cells. Either their bones are grafted with the carbon fiber, reinforced, or (most preferrably) encases the bone.
If it's encased you still have to allow for blood to travel through it. Furthmore as was perviously discussed carbon fiber is relatively flexible. So you might see the protective casing survive, but the under lying bone might still end up breaking. See the problem?

@Colonel Marksman wrote:As for organs, they can be transplanted and replaced, they don't have to be artifical, just healthy (and most organs can't be artifical as their functions are simply too biologically complex).

This is true to a point. Most organs are chemical plants. The body already does this very well. However there is a lot of talk about developing, an artificial liver, or kidney. These kind of artificial organs are really just cloned tissue grow over a structure that can be placed in the body. So it depends on what you consider artificial.

@Colonel Marksman wrote:I can't remember the name of the sci-fi, but there was a guy who smuggled organs using his own body to keep 'em warm.
Fiefly, created by Joss Whedon. The same guy who gave us Buffy. I hate fox for fucking that show. It was so awesome.

@Colonel Marksman wrote:And nobody said we had to argue about it. You can discuss a topic in which you disagree with without arguing. Arguing occurs when somebody's being ignorant and refuses to listen, holding too dearly to their point and not intaking anything the other side is. Besides, discussing the topics are a fun way to bring insight and thought into sci-fi.
Ditto

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Re: So we all know they're bullet resistant...

Post by John_234 on Wed 27 Jun 2012 - 4:42

Trucks might sound like they're not a big deal, but remember big rigs weigh about as much as main battle tanks.

It's pretty easy to make something slash resistant - many comfortable garments can have kevlar sewn into them to jam chainsaws and stop knife cuts. However, a stab isn't easily stopped by anything less than a completely hard surface, or a mesh of interlaced rings as found in modern stab-proof vests. So while you could probably defend the delicate airways against a slash with the right planning and materials, it's very difficult to stop an outright stab with anything.

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