What's with the Conditioning?

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 27 Nov 2007 - 22:21

I say there's little question of it being chemically-induced.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Guest on Tue 27 Nov 2007 - 22:25

@Nachtsider wrote:I say there's little question of it being chemically-induced.
The question is how exactly. The drug can be a direct pain releaver, or their glands might be modified (as Elfen suggested) and kept functioning thanks to the drug, or the drug could be used in the hipnotic sense and the mechanism would be implanted into their minds by use of the drug, but not dependent on the drug hereafter. Or something else.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Wileama on Tue 27 Nov 2007 - 22:28

I don't know that I would go so far to say chemically-induced. The mechanics of it are cloudy at best. It would be a very complex chemical system to do the things we see it accomplish. It could be tied into adrenaline production.

However it does seem to be a constructed, or engineered ability over taught.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by LoC978 on Tue 27 Nov 2007 - 22:28

@Wileama wrote:I mean imagine it, guy shoots you in your vest, knocks you flat on you ass, in shock.
OT:
remember, though, that it's actually the shock that knocks you flat on your ass. the amount of force a bullet delivers to you is pretty much the same as the base value of the recoil it delivers to the gun. Enough to make a person lose their balance, but not enough to actually lift them from their feet (large-caliber rounds from mounted weapons excluded).
*looks at his own fic*
oops, even I fell prey to the old hollywood embellishment...

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by ElfenMagix on Tue 27 Nov 2007 - 22:29

It has to be drug induced because, if you ever got hit by a bullet, its not a pleasant experience. And I got hit by a .22 when I was young and years later by a 1/2 of a 9mm. The 9mm hit a steel beam and went to pieces, I got hit by one of the pieces.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Guest on Tue 27 Nov 2007 - 22:35

@ElfenMagix wrote:And I got hit by a .22 when I was young and years later by a 1/2 of a
9mm. The 9mm hit a steel beam and went to pieces, I got hit by one of
the pieces.
Holy shit. Was someone actually shooting at you, or was it just some imbecile who got a hold of a gun and didn't know what to do with it?

The drug can't have a direct effect (like a regular pain killer. You take it -> pain stops), because it only stops after a bit, and the ability to notice that you have been hurt is important. So it will be dependent on the drug being there, but there has to be some mechanic, biological, or psyhological factor that triggers the pain relief.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by ElfenMagix on Tue 27 Nov 2007 - 23:25

3klicks wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:And I got hit by a .22 when I was young and years later by a 1/2 of a
9mm. The 9mm hit a steel beam and went to pieces, I got hit by one of
the pieces.
Holy shit. Was someone actually shooting at you, or was it just some imbecile who got a hold of a gun and didn't know what to do with it?
The first one was by my kid brother... he took (one of) the family's guns and put it to my knee while I slept on the sofa. Thanks to the position and angle he did it in, it went through with little pernament damage. But boy did that pissed me off!!! I was in a cast for a month thanx to him! Today, I occassionaly get a knife stabbing pain, but I attribute that to getting there in my years. It was a .22 short bullet for a tiny .22 auto.

The second one was an idiot at a shooting range trying to show off that he can hit other people's targets. He hit the range's support beam that shattered the bullet and pieces went everywhere. One of them hit me. Another hit a friend. We took our guns placed it to his temple and forehead and escorted him out of the range. Idiots like that dont belong in the range. No harm done in that one, other than the idea of 'This fool could have killed me!'

3klicks wrote:The drug can't have a direct effect (like a regular pain killer. You take it -> pain stops), because it only stops after a bit, and the ability to notice that you have been hurt is important. So it will be dependent on the drug being there, but there has to be some mechanic, biological, or psyhological factor that triggers the pain relief.

I would not know. Just in guessing, only because according to the proof in Vol 3. the girls get their shots weekly instead of daily, that they are walking around comfortably numb. Only when something disturbs them out right, like bullets or in Triela's case- cramps, do they feel it momentarily. With bullets- its just a one time thing- with cramps- its on going, so it does not work well there.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 27 Nov 2007 - 23:33

@ElfenMagix wrote:I would not know. Just in guessing, only because according to the proof in Vol 3. the girls get their shots weekly instead of daily, that they are walking around comfortably numb.

Cue appropriate Pink Floyd music here.

Gotta love them guitar licks.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by sasahara17 on Wed 28 Nov 2007 - 19:00

@ElfenMagix wrote:The second one was an idiot at a shooting range trying to show off that he can hit other people's targets. He hit the range's support beam that shattered the bullet and pieces went everywhere. One of them hit me. Another hit a friend. We took our guns placed it to his temple and forehead and escorted him out of the range. Idiots like that dont belong in the range. No harm done in that one, other than the idea of 'This fool could have killed me!'

Wow. I hope they banned him from that shooting range after that incident. You sure sound like you have your fair share of injuries there Elfen.
Fix the broken quote, BTW
-Elfen

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 28 Nov 2007 - 21:13

In my 40+ years, I enjoyed life. Got the scars to prove it! :lol!:
Seriously, I dont see how people can spend entire lives doing little much of nothing and call it living. As for me, I try something and I try to be the best at it. If I tire of it, I move on. Its that simple.

I've moved on to bigger outdoor ranges when the weather is right.

BACK TO THE TOPIC!

Being hit by a bullet is a strange sensation; first you feel something like a finger poking at you, followed by a massive punch- like some martial arts expert just hit you good about a micro second after. Depending on the bullet, the grains of gunpowder in the round and the gun it came out of- depends on how hard you get hit. A tiny .22 will not knock you down unless its a .22 long or .22 magnum coming out of a long rifle. Even then, its doubtful. An M1 Garand .306 round... oh yeah...

The girl's bullet proofing is up to par with what local criminals and terrorists would be using. The higher the firepower, the less able they will handle a hit. Done right, a .50 cal will do a cyborg just right.

Pia and Ernesto used .50 Desert Eagles, but yet Henrietta killed her in the game? I find that a bit odd and need to get the game (and my PS2 modded) to play it to see how it was done.


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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 28 Nov 2007 - 21:17

My interpretaion of the cyborgs' bullet-proofing is that anything short of armor-piercing or high-explosive has no hope in hell of stopping them. Not sure how accurate this is, though, but it might be too late for a retcon...

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 28 Nov 2007 - 21:33

I figure almost the same, Nachtsider.
Normal ammunition, even hollow points, will not stop them.

Its the fancy stuff that might do some seirous damage.
You can try to figure out the math with this table:
http://www.naaminis.com/energy.html

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Guest on Wed 28 Nov 2007 - 23:28

The Elsa incident shows that they have weak points, but they are usually pretty good at covering their faces with their arms. Considering how fast their reflexes are it's hard to hit a weak spot unless you get the drop on them.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by emperor on Wed 28 Nov 2007 - 23:54

As far as obeying commands is concerned. Henrietta freaks out multiple times in defense of Jose. Rico lies to Jean.

Should say Rico - medium.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Wileama on Wed 28 Nov 2007 - 23:55

I have my own opinions about the bullet proofing. I do believe that the girls have a limited ability to fend off damage from small caliber weapons. However I think that it's more a matter of being able to soak up the damage that's done with out loosing any of their performance. So just one nine millimeter wont do anything. Use something like twenty, or thirty, and you'll put a girl down hard. I think I did a nice thick write up of this earlier. I'll try to find it.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Wileama on Thu 29 Nov 2007 - 0:12

Turns out it was in the old forum. It was here. Don't know how to link directly to the post in question. However it was the first post I made in that thread. Here is the part I was referring too.

@Wileama wrote:Obviously bullets to not just bounce off the girls. I always tend to though that the mechanics of the bullet resistance was not like that of ordinary body armor. The bullet almost always finds it's way into the body, invariably doing some damage to the under lying tissue. However the girls seem to be unaffected by this damage both in terms of pain, and physical performace. I think their bullet resisantance comes more in the way of their artifical muscles, and conditioning.

The artifical muscles are far superior to their natural counter parts. Thus small things like holes in the middle of them don't cause serious performance issues. Condition causes the otherwise debilitating pain to be shut off. Their carbon fiber bones don't shatter when the bullet comes to a sudden stop against one. Finally advanced biochemistry, or perhaps muscle structure, prevents massive blood loss.

The only exception to this system of armoring seems to be the head. The principal of shrugging off damage simply won't work here. However you have the handy dandy skull. Unlike the bones else where in the body, the skull is wrapped around a vital organ. In almost all other parts of the body the organ is wrapped around the bone. Thus it should be fairly easy to replace the bone with a super awesome alloy of the future. Throw in the natural curves of the head, and you have 9mm ricochet off the skull.

There is the matter of the torso though. One could put a certain amount of kevlar in there. However I have the feeling that a nonelastic material like that would seriously screw up your flexability. Besides there's also a space and maintence issue. How do you perform surgery through a bullet proof armor? You would have to cut said armor, forcing you to replace it.

No the torso seem to be fairly well done as it is. Remeber Angie takes one in the chest. Now barring some sort of miricale, we're talking about putting a hole in the vitals. Something like a lung, or the heart. The fact that she goes out on just a strecher says a lot. That and I never got the sense her gun shot was directly responsible for her death. Perhaps it was the straw that broke the camels back. One to many surgeries, one to many condition regimes, one to many replaced oragns. That to me is what killed Angie, not some sucking chest wound.

The artifical organs in the chest seem to be able to take a 9mm. Again no one is trying to uncollapse the poor girls lung. Hell I don't even see anything being done for bleeding. We see zero signs of first aid, short of surgery. That to me says the girls might not get back up after being shot in the chest, but it's not necessarily going to kill them either.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 29 Nov 2007 - 0:13

Thats why I have Rachel with the .32NAA as a mission weapon.
http://www.naaminis.com/32NAA.html

If we consider the atmosphere on a standard day at sea level static conditions, the speed of sound is about 761 mph, or 1100 feet/second. The .32NAA (aka .32/.38 ) is fired at anywhere between 1222 ft/s and 1453 ft/s, which is supersonic. The girls would not be able to block it, but again, this is a specailized round I gave Rachel for her mission weapon for this reason: If the cyborgs cant defend themselves against it, no one else would. The rest relies on the luck of the draw. It also can rip through cheap body amour. Its only limitation is the small magazine and limited number of rounds. Even with an extended magazine, it only holds 10 rounds. Her personal weapon is a standard .45.

In Proteccione (Episode 6?), Ricco was a bit slow in blocking and got hit just above her eyebrow. Henrietta got hit on the shoulder in episodes 1 & 2. Angie got riddled in episode 12, even though she blocked her eyes, she could have jumped out the way but didn't.

Not only is it the luck of the draw, it is also the distance between the shooter and the cyborg. Even at 100ft, at 1000ft/sec, the bullet will hit the cyborg in .1 seconds. The nervous system is not that souped up for signals to move through the nerves that fast. The speed of the nerve impulse can be as high as 100 meters (0.6 mile) per second. By the time the reflex action kicks in, the cyborg is already hit.

Interesting is how they raise their arms to block the bullets fired. That area of the forearm has the least amount of flesh and skin, and closest to the Ulna bone. If that bone was strengthen with extra cyborg material, it can be used as a shield, if only temporary to take a couple of hits.


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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by LoC978 on Thu 29 Nov 2007 - 0:19

regarding the girls' reaction time
Seems to me that they raised their arms in anticipation of being shot. That's usually how combat works. Reacting to a strike after it's already been initiated is called being 'caught flat-footed' for a reason.
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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 29 Nov 2007 - 0:25

@LoC978 wrote:
regarding the girls' reaction time
Seems to me that they raised their arms in anticipation of being shot. That's usually how combat works. Reacting to a strike after it's already been initiated is called being 'caught flat-footed' for a reason.
That might be the case, but as I noticed in the animes, the shots are heard fired and then the arm goes up. They dont run into the line of fire with the arm already up.

In most cases, bullets are slower than sound waves (most a cases!). This would give the girls just a few microseconds to react. Thinking takes too long to act upon, so I believed that this is a condictioned response that was programmed into them.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Sintendo on Thu 29 Nov 2007 - 0:25

@ElfenMagix wrote:
Being hit by a bullet is a strange sensation; first you feel something like a finger poking at you, followed by a massive punch- like some martial arts expert just hit you good about a micro second after. Depending on the bullet, the grains of gunpowder in the round and the gun it came out of- depends on how hard you get hit. A tiny .22 will not knock you down unless its a .22 long or .22 magnum coming out of a long rifle. Even then, its doubtful. An M1 Garand .306 round... oh yeah...

Topic derail, but only for a moment.

I was at an outdoor range with my uncle (Currently a Navy Corpsman) a few years back when I... yes, I... accidentally shot him in the leg. I don't really know exactly what happened since it happened so fast, but the range masters all said it was an accident and that the rifle (My uncle's custom Ruger 10/22 .22LR) went off by itself (reason being is that when they inspected the rifle the safety was on).

Being that my uncle is a trained Marine, he, out of pure... conditioning and instinct and having JUST come back from a tour of duty in Afghanistan the day before, fired back and hit me in the arm with my dad's Mountain Eagle .22LR.

:lol!:

I love .22's. Also, there is no excuse as to why my uncle got hurt other than me being a dumbass.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by LoC978 on Thu 29 Nov 2007 - 0:30

@ElfenMagix wrote:That might be the case, but as I noticed in the animes, the shots are heard fired and then the arm goes up. They dont run into the line of fire with the arm already up.
I chalk that up to 'dramatic time dilation/rewind' on the part of the animators. somehow I doubt the girls can move their arms faster than a bullet (maybe a musket ball, though). It's not like we're dealing with Clark Kent here (who is another argument altogether. the air he would displace blocking bullets shot at civilans... *stops*)

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Guest on Thu 29 Nov 2007 - 0:51

@LoC978 wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:That might be the case, but as I noticed in the animes, the shots are heard fired and then the arm goes up. They dont run into the line of fire with the arm already up.
I chalk that up to 'dramatic time dilation/rewind' on the part of the animators. somehow I doubt the girls can move their arms faster than a bullet (maybe a musket ball, though). It's not like we're dealing with Clark Kent here (who is another argument altogether. the air he would displace blocking bullets shot at civilans... *stops*)

Also, sometimes the girls are too slow, but the shots aren't very accurate. (It's hard to actually do much aiming when fighting a GSG) So the first shot is before their reaction and missess or hits a non vital area, and then the rest are blocked.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 29 Nov 2007 - 18:46

3klicks wrote:
@LoC978 wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:That might be the case, but as I noticed in the animes, the shots are heard fired and then the arm goes up. They dont run into the line of fire with the arm already up.
I chalk that up to 'dramatic time dilation/rewind' on the part of the animators. somehow I doubt the girls can move their arms faster than a bullet (maybe a musket ball, though). It's not like we're dealing with Clark Kent here (who is another argument altogether. the air he would displace blocking bullets shot at civilans... *stops*)

Also, sometimes the girls are too slow, but the shots aren't very accurate. (It's hard to actually do much aiming when fighting a GSG) So the first shot is before their reaction and missess or hits a non vital area, and then the rest are blocked.
Thats if they are going up against standard ammunition speed rounds. Going up against something like super and hyper sonic bullets, I don think they have much of a chance in blocking it. Reaction speed is too great for them to react upon, and any that are blocked is by sheer luck of having that arm there at the time.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Guest on Thu 29 Nov 2007 - 20:29

@LoC978 wrote: Seems to me that they raised their arms in anticipation of
being shot. That's usually how combat works. Reacting to a strike after
it's already been initiated is called being 'caught flat-footed' for a
reason.
That's what I mean when I say block. They either see the guy raise his gun and are faster, or raise their arm after the first shot if they are surprised. They can keep their faces mostly covered so it's really very difficult to hit them in the eye or something, especially when using a pistol and when they are moving or charging at you.

I certainly don't think they can raise their hand up from a normal position all the way up to their face in the time it takes any bullet to reach them from a reasonable engagement distance.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Nachtsider on Thu 29 Nov 2007 - 20:39

The arm-blocking maneuver strikes me as being an instinctive reaction on the part of the cyborgs, geared at protecting their vulnerable eyes, which are the only regions a normal bullet (i.e., non-explosive or non-armor piercing) would have a hope of inflicting damage.


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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Guest on Thu 29 Nov 2007 - 21:49

@Nachtsider wrote:The arm-blocking maneuver strikes me as being an instinctive reaction
on the part of the cyborgs, geared at protecting their vulnerable eyes,
which are the only regions a normal (i.e., non-explosive or non-armor
piercing) would have a hope of inflicting damage.
My thoughts exactly.

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ever notice that the apple falls not far from the ......

Post by Guest on Mon 3 Dec 2007 - 17:02

I'm afraid this has been discussed before, so I don't want to start a new topic, but you ever notice:

- Jean treatment to Rico resulting in her sadistic impulse when ordered (although she's not sadistic towards the other girls)
- Lauro indifferent treatment towards Elsa resulting in her being indifferent towards the girls
- Jose gayness....ok...ok, not gayness, but pure spoiling of Etta resulting in her being spoiled, self-centered and expecting others to care for her (ie. star gazing in the anime, being mad at Rico for breaking the kaleidoscope etc.)
- Hillshire sincere care, nurturing, and giving Triela choices/options to speak her mind resulting in Triela's choosing to care for the girls in addition to herself
- Rabarro and Claes. Perhaps their interaction is too brief, but she does appear embittered, jaded, and cynical like Rabarro
- Angelica....ok, no connection here. She's just an angel through and through...my theory fails already

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 3 Dec 2007 - 17:27

Interesting points there Wasyhuu.
In the pitbull fighting circles- to get a mean dawg- you feed it gunpowder...
Well, you get a very vicious and unstable dog when you do that.

The girls, well, their past has something to do with their present personality on a subconscious level.

-Henrietta: 1 of 6, and constantly striving for attention.
-Ricco: in a hospital bed, not being able to do nothing but lay there and listen to her parents fight all the time.
-Claes seened to be an only child in a rich family in her photos. Thus she probably was spoiled, but had to prove her worth every step of the way. They would have wanted her to go beyond where they had her in life.
-Triela as a child prostitute and drugged addict, was forced to do things (including being introduced into the situation she was found in), never had a word to say on edgewise.
-Elsa probably came from a family that did not cared about her so when she ended up in the hospital, she was an easy pickup for Section 2.
-Angelica was an angel. As for your connection, Wasyhuu, though she questioned what she was doing in the SWA before her memory was wiped (perhaps as an acciden), she liked being there and did not mind doing her job and training. In fact, she eagerly learned everything, and in the beginning, Marco liked teaching her and doing missions with her. (Perhaps a fanfict of this is in order).

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Guest on Mon 3 Dec 2007 - 18:45

The girls upbringing definitely has impact on their personalities, but I would say that the drug gave them a newfound nimbleness in relation to their handlers. It is not just how they are treated, but also how their idols (the handlers) behave in general.

If you really mist go with the dog analog, here's a proven fact. Dogs owned by aggressive people become aggressive; dogs owned by calm quiet people become calm and quiet. (I'm not saying it works like magic, but that a dog of a pre-chosen breed will lean one way or the other depending on the owner, and they will show a signiicant contrast when examined side by side.)

Or more simply, we tend to adopt our parents (or the figure of authority that spends the most time with us/takes care of us) patterns of behaviour especially when we are young. The drug would (this is my theory) make the girls more responsive in this way then they would normally be at their age.

[edit] p.s. - The term "sadistic" is usually used to refer to someone who takes pleasure in hurting. This description can't really be applied to Rico who simply does as she is told. Indifference to suffering is just about as far you can go, and that still has a partial "when ordered to" clause attached.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by LoC978 on Mon 3 Dec 2007 - 19:47

and here I thought I invented the sadistic Rico character...

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Wileama on Mon 3 Dec 2007 - 20:49

That smile during the whole sniper jump really threw me off. I mean It must be Rico smiling, but it's just so damn creepy. I didn't expect her to be so pleased about killing someone...

I she really taking pleasure in beating the shit out of people?

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 3 Dec 2007 - 20:51

The smiles you see Rico give during missions and when she offs the enemy are probably smiles of satisfaction that she's doing her job properly and concretly repaying the Agency for the new life they granted her, and not smiles of sadism.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Guest on Mon 3 Dec 2007 - 21:10

Well said. Smile

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 3 Dec 2007 - 21:11

Ta!

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Wileama on Mon 3 Dec 2007 - 21:16

I suppose. Still, that means in a way she's still taking satisfaction she's killing someone. Nor does that smile seem any less creepy...

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 3 Dec 2007 - 21:37

@Wileama wrote:I suppose. Still, that means in a way she's still taking satisfaction she's killing someone. Nor does that smile seem any less creepy...
That smile is: MY HANDLER SAYS THAT I HAVE TO BEAT YOU UNTIL HE TELLS ME TO STOP, SO STOP MOVING AROUND OR ELSE YOU'LL JUST GET ME MORE MAD AND MAKE THIS WORSE ON YOURSELF!!!

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Sintendo on Mon 3 Dec 2007 - 21:42

@ElfenMagix wrote:
@Wileama wrote:I suppose. Still, that means in a way she's still taking satisfaction she's killing someone. Nor does that smile seem any less creepy...
That smile is: MY HANDLER SAYS THAT I HAVE TO BEAT YOU UNTIL HE TELLS ME TO STOP, SO STOP MOVING AROUND OR ELSE YOU'LL JUST GET ME MORE MAD AND MAKE THIS WORSE ON YOURSELF, ASSHOLE!!!

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by emperor on Tue 4 Dec 2007 - 2:40

@wasyhuu wrote:I'm afraid this has been discussed before, so I don't want to start a new topic, but you ever notice:

- Jean treatment to Rico resulting in her sadistic impulse when ordered (although she's not sadistic towards the other girls)
- Lauro indifferent treatment towards Elsa resulting in her being indifferent towards the girls
- Jose gayness....ok...ok, not gayness, but pure spoiling of Etta resulting in her being spoiled, self-centered and expecting others to care for her (ie. star gazing in the anime, being mad at Rico for breaking the kaleidoscope etc.)
- Hillshire sincere care, nurturing, and giving Triela choices/options to speak her mind resulting in Triela's choosing to care for the girls in addition to herself
- Rabarro and Claes. Perhaps their interaction is too brief, but she does appear embittered, jaded, and cynical like Rabarro
- Angelica....ok, no connection here. She's just an angel through and through...my theory fails already

Very keen observation!!!

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Danjo3 on Tue 4 Dec 2007 - 14:49

@wasyhuu wrote:- Jose gayness....ok...ok, not gayness, but pure spoiling of Etta resulting in her being spoiled, self-centered and expecting others to care for her (ie. star gazing in the anime, being mad at Rico for breaking the kaleidoscope etc.)
Ouch!

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 5 Dec 2007 - 17:28

@Danjo3 wrote:
@wasyhuu wrote:- Jose gayness....ok...ok, not gayness, but pure spoiling of Etta resulting in her being spoiled, self-centered and expecting others to care for her (ie. star gazing in the anime, being mad at Rico for breaking the kaleidoscope etc.)
Ouch!

I think Henrietta is running on her old pre-conditioned program where she was 1 of 6 and constantly veying for attention and protecting her stuff. Jose and Jean should know something about this since they were brothers and have at least 1 other shared sibling (Enrika). Who know now many others siblings (alive or dead) did thay have?

Yes, Henrietta's spoiled. She needs a spanking at times, but when in need of attention, she'll take anything- including the spanking, and that will only make her into a bad girl...

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Guest on Wed 5 Dec 2007 - 17:55

While we're on the subject of little girls and moral crisis; a English teacher in Japan apperently faces them alot: http://www.gaijinsmash.net/archives.phtml

@ElfenMagix wrote:Yes, Henrietta's spoiled. She needs a spanking at times, but when in need of attention, she'll take anything- including the spanking, and that will only make her into a bad girl...
Gaijin Smash wrote:
At one of my schools, there's this ichinensei girl who is, without question, The Sweetest Girl in the Universe. She's very cute, very polite, always smiling, and is really bubbly. Everyone kind of dotes on her, but you would too, she's so freaking sweet.

She and some other girls were doing a special English drill. In this particular workbook, there was, in my opinion, a rather odd exercise. The other girls would say, "So and so, you're a good soccer player!" and the girl addressed would then say, "No, I'm not. I'm a bad soccer player. I'm a very bad soccer player." I can only guess that this has something to do with the Japanese cultural tendency to deny compliments rather than accept them.

So the girls were doing this exercise, and I read ahead to see what Ultimate Sweetness would be responding to. I almost fell over in my chair when I saw it. It was completely innocent, sure, but I knew exactly how my young male mind would hear it. I panicked - I had to stop this from happening, but I couldn't think of what to do. In my hesitation, the exercise proceeded, and the moment I feared came to be.

Other Girls: "You're a good girl!"

The Cutest, Sweetest Girl in the Universe: "No, I'm not! I'm a bad girl. I'm a very bad girl."

I'm going to hell.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 5 Dec 2007 - 18:01

:lol!: :lol!: :lol!: :lol!: :lol!: :lol!:

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Guest on Fri 1 Feb 2008 - 12:49

so basicly the drugs are not the main ifluance on the girls but the handlers

jose spoiles etta and so she acts spoiled and is always tries to make him proud of her

jean treats rico like a tool and so she thinks her life is all about the job but at the same time due to her life before the SWA she view's every day as a blessing

angelica and claes are differnt since claes does'nt have a handler and ange is glitching

but even still claes finds peace in doing "nothing" like rambllo showed her and is sarcastic and somewhat bitter becouse she feels the loss of not having a handler

and ange who was treated like marco's child so her personalty is like a child and still view's marco as her dad

elza was treated coldly just like a tool and was cold to the other girls while at the same time developed a strong infatiution on her handler (the only person she had any real contact with)
when she finally learn's that the only one she cares about cares nothing for her she goes postal
i dont think rico could end up the same as she love's life too much

and of course the big one being triela
the nature of what she and hillsher are to each other is the source of why triela seems the most "normal" of the cyborgs
hillsher and triela have worked together longer then any other team save ange and marco and at the same time triela had very little conditoning due to hillsher not being willing to shorten her lifespen
and so triela wasn't so much made into what she is like rico or etta
she was raised by hillsher who even he isn't saying it out loud think's of her as his own kid
she meanwhile acts just like a rebel teen would and is testing her limits
and she end's up just like him
she end's up someone who disobeys order's and lets the ex-mob guy go just like him
she end's up someone who can't stand by while a young girl is in danger
and when the mission goes bad she ends up in total dismay
not becouse she failed the mission but becouse she failed him and ended up getting him hurt
later when she wins despite how hurt she is the first thing she wants is to tell hillsher becouse she wants him to be proud of her

so i think the drugs only effect how the girls take orders
not their personalty's

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by West Nile on Fri 15 Feb 2008 - 8:33

@Nachtsider wrote:My interpretaion of the cyborgs' bullet-proofing is that anything short of armor-piercing or high-explosive has no hope in hell of stopping them. Not sure how accurate this is, though, but it might be too late for a retcon...

How do you explain Angie surviving the bomb in vol. 9?


season 1 ep 4
Etta: Rico, do you know you're bleeding?
Rico: Huh? It's nothing Jean just scolded me during condtioning that's all.

What the hell was that? While Rico was being IVed with the stuff Jean just slugged her? How is conditioning administered?

Conditioning room:
-Rico in a daze-
Doctor: here i am giving Rico her conditioning.
Jean: say doc, when the girls are in that daze can they feel anything?
Doctor: i don't know?
Jean: well let's see -punches Rico in the face-... well looks like they can't...

Guh?

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Wileama on Fri 15 Feb 2008 - 12:05

I get the feeling that conditioning is used in to describe several different processes. There are times when the word seems to explain physical training, and other times when it describes brain washing. I think it might be a translation thing, that or conditioning is just a very broad term. So when Rico says conditioning in that case I just replace it with training.

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Re: What's with the Conditioning?

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 15 Feb 2008 - 17:57

@West Nile wrote:How do you explain Angie surviving the bomb in vol. 9?

Did you read my original quote properly, Nile?

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