Series that Should Have Been Better...

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Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Piero on Mon 25 Jan 2010 - 23:02

What series can you guys think of that you really wanted to like (or even did like) but felt didn't quite live up to their potential?

One of the big examples that comes to mind for me is the spaghetti-western inspired sci-fi series Burst Angel, which is about an all female mercenary team working in the violent, crime ridden streets of an earthquake devastated Tokyo. Sure, maybe the series would never have won many awards for story depth or anything like that, but it should have been loads and loads of fun. But for whatever reason the writers didn't seem to be able to fully exploit the characters and setting, especially in the later parts of the series, which was disappointing. So it basically ended up being a show that stood out as having a great sense of style but was sort of mediocre overall, when it should have been utterly awesome as an action title.


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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by maverick375 on Mon 25 Jan 2010 - 23:10

Definitely Solty Rei... It had a promising noir feel to it, promising to be a gritty story, and they ruin it with that freaking chirpy girl and her insane spandex whatever-it-is. No wonder they broke out the fan-service on the fourth episode.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 25 Jan 2010 - 23:22

The second Negima series - Negima?!. The show made little sense.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by rusty-spring on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 0:00

Not so much that Coyote Ragtime didn't live up to my expectations (I loved it), but I was disappointed at all the bashing it received after all the weeaboos realized it wasn't SOLELY about loli maids.

As for an actual show that didn't live up to my expectations, do I even need to mention Il Teatrino? C'mon man.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 0:03

@rusty-spring wrote:Not so much that Coyote Ragtime didn't live up to my expectations (I loved it), but I was disappointed at all the bashing it received after all the weeaboos realized it wasn't SOLELY about loli maids.

That is because they wallow in lameness.

As for an actual show that didn't live up to my expectations, do I even need to mention Il Teatrino? C'mon man.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 5:11

Gundam Wing. Feathered robots? Godhax? Homoerotic undertones? C'mon, man.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 10:45

@Nachtsider wrote:Gundam Wing. Feathered robots? Godhax? Homoerotic undertones? C'mon, man.

Char Aznable does not approve. NO

That being said, Gundam Wing was the first Gundam series I actually enjoyed. Doh!

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Piero on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 14:32

Just a reminder, this thread is for series that didn't live up to their full potential moreso than just any series that wasn't that good. Kind of the 'damnit, this had the makings of something great... how did it end up being so mediocre?' sort of titles.

Anyway, much as it's already number eight on my top ten animes list, I'm going to add Canaan. The show did so much right -good characters, great action scenes, a kind of whacked out sense of humour, and an excellent sense of setting. However, it had some definite issues. I've often been a big fan of shows that are 'mid range' in terms of the amount of depth they have -basically, shows that aren't wrapped up in trying to be all deep and meaningful, but which actually do have a degree of depth to them. (Believable character motivations, for instance, can help even heavily action oriented series, IMO.) Canaan seemed to have the makings of one of these mid range shows, but it seems like somewhere along the line, someone dropped the ball as far as the overall themes and story of the series was concerned. You get strong hints that there's supposed to be more to it than you're seeing and that it's supposed to all come together properly, but if feels like either the writer or the director or someone else along the line couldn't quite bring things out properly. I sometimes wonder if there are parts that would make more sense in a different cultural context, especially considering how one reviewer pointed out early on how one of the themes present in the first episode would be a lot more relevant to people in Eastern cultures. But maybe I'm just hoping that a few of the 'what was all that about?' scenes have more to them than they seemed to. Still, as mentioned above, the series is still one of my favorites. It's just that it feels like it could have been more satisfying than it was.

Also, the writers on that one wrote themselves into a corner in the end. The second to last episode was a fantastic cliffhanger, but the writers put themselves in a position where what the audience (or at least the part of the audience that liked the characters) wanted and what the audience thought should happen given the way the dramatic momentum was pointing were in conflict. One of my other top favorite anime series had a somewhat similar problem, and people seemed to take issues with the ending of that series as well.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by theprodigalson on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 15:27

I watched the whole series of Shangi-La and lost count of the times I got excited about potential plot growth only to be left staring at my screen after the credits rolled thinking "That wasn't...the direction I would have taken?"

It just struck me as having repeated failures to launch, but I still watched the whole thing. Great music.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by boomer_gonz on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 15:33

I'm going to go out on a limb and say on series I am pretty sure that nobody here has seen or probably will see. It's a hentai OAV called Milk Money(aka Uba).

The original series that I read delved deeply into the characters and even explored the complexity of real-life BDSM relationships. When I saw the anime sitting in the isolated corner of my local Suncoast( Cry ) store, I was eager to see how well it had transferred into an anime. The answer, not well at all.

The original manga short series(forgot the actual word for it, but I know there is one) was quite good. The story took a few twists, but never completely swayed from the main storyline which got really fscked toward the end, but was so engaging that half the time I skipped right over the 'lemon' scenes to see what would happen next with the story. By the end of the series, I felt for the characters and the whole subtle tragedy of it all. Especially for Marika and oddly enough her mother, Kyouko.

It would be one thing if the anime simply didn't live up to my expectations, but it outright butchered the story into pieces. First and foremost, the opening scene was actually brief flashback in the manga. I could let that go on the grounds of dramatic-cinematic necessity, but what came next(no pun intended) was far worse. The first episode basically took a page here and a couple there and mashed it into a thirty minute episode. Again, I could let that go as well, if the second episode wasn't a 'let's hurry to the end' kind of deal.

It was close to the original story, but seemed way too rushed. Especially with the 20-25 chapters, there was just so much more they could have worked with. However, from what I've heard from other hentai fans; the Vanilla Series has pretty much been doing that since about 2003 or so.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Totoum on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 15:48

Shigofumi (aired in winter 2008)

Loved the concept and loved the first two episodes but it was pretty much downhill after that,though it wasn't bad but the first two episodes were making me think this would be one of my absolute favorites.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Five_X on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 17:22

Toradora deserves to be on this thread. Now, it wasn't a bad anime, I really, really enjoyed it. However, the second half of the show went downhill fast. I kept on thinking how it could have been better. Oh, and the cringing. Oh, the cringing. So much drama, no comedy. Bad combination for this show, which built itself on awesome humour. Luckily there's a game with multiple endings, so I hope that gets translated. ASAP.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Nuke is Good on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 18:04

Il Teatrino on production

ZZ Gundam well...I expected something along the lines of Zeta.

Char's Counterattack- Ok, Char's a lolicon and the Federation are idiots for selling Char Axis after he dumped an asteroid on Earth earlier just because you gave them money?

Macross 7- 30 Episodes too long...

Claymore- Just the few ending episodes soured the feeling.


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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Toma-kun on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 18:24

I thought Texhnolyze could have been a lot better.

The action scenes are mindblowing and the art is incredible, but none of it leads to anything substantial. It kinda reminds me of End of Evangelion, except it doesn't answer any questions or provide any sense of closure at all.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Five_X on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 19:28

Wait, End of Evangelion answered questions? Razz


And I have to agree on Claymore. It pretty much turned into a fantsy version of DBZ. And DBZ was good only for the nostalgia factor.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 21:18

@Five_X wrote:Toradora deserves to be on this thread. Now, it wasn't a bad anime, I really, really enjoyed it. However, the second half of the show went downhill fast.

I was hoping they'd break the trope and not have Ryuji and Taiga hook up, but no... bang head

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Sakura on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 21:39

@Nachtsider wrote:Gundam Wing. Feathered robots? Godhax? Homoerotic undertones? C'mon, man.
Is that supposed to be bad?
Though I'll be one to say I didn't like Gundam Wing due to Relena (has threatened numerous time to beat up the one that sends me numerous Relena clips)

One series I watched that had lots of potential and ended on a questionable note was Tokyo Underground. I loved that series throughout, but at the very end all I could think was "WTF just happened?".

Oh and another is Gundam Seed Destiny. It started off good, but I think the director gave up at the end.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Volcrim on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 22:10

Haruhi 2009 should have been better after such a cool first new ep.

The one i think that had the most potential and disapointed me the most was Il Teatrino
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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 26 Jan 2010 - 22:16

@Sakura wrote:
@Nachtsider wrote:Gundam Wing. Feathered robots? Godhax? Homoerotic undertones? C'mon, man.
Is that supposed to be bad?
Though I'll be one to say I didn't like Gundam Wing due to Relena (has threatened numerous time to beat up the one that sends me numerous Relena clips)...

She was why I liked the show. sweat

@Volcrim wrote:Haruhi 2009 should have been better after such a cool first new ep.

God that was a train wreck. Especially "Endless Eight". bang head

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by rusty-spring on Wed 27 Jan 2010 - 0:40

@Sakura wrote:Oh and another is Gundam Seed Destiny.
GSD? *Shinn scream*

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by boomer_gonz on Wed 27 Jan 2010 - 2:14

Not exactly anime, but another series I had high hopes for was Sonic Underground.

After the sudden cancellation of Sonic SatAM, I had hoped that this would be the final continuation of the series, but I would be wrong.

The original story was ripped apart, sewed back together haphazardly, and...well yeah.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 27 Jan 2010 - 4:44

Wing's only redeeming factor in my eyes was the Deathscythe. That was one sexy beast.

@Nuke is Good wrote:Char's Counterattack- Ok, CHAR'S A LOLICON and the Federation are idiots for selling Char Axis after he dumped an asteroid on Earth earlier just because you gave them money?
I find myself wondering to high heaven where you got that impression from. It's quite plain to see that Char was just toying with Quess and had no interest in her beyond her potential as a weapon of war.

Incidentally, I stood up and cheered wildly when the Alpha Aizeru blew up.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Piero on Wed 27 Jan 2010 - 14:10

I think I'm also going to throw in High School Girls, in both it's manga and anime forms (the anime is sometimes known as Girl's High). Basically, imagine a manga written by a woman who had gone to an all girl's school who took a look at the way all girls schools are typically portrayed in manga and then declared "this is complete bs." Basically, the series takes the whole 'girl's who attend all girl's schools are prim and proper' image, skewers it, hacks it to pieces, and lights it on fire. It is unashamedly crude: one notable scene that comes to mind from the manga involves a group of the girls coming across one of the few girls in their group who actually has a bodyfriend while she's on a date. They're jealous, so they drag both her and her boyfriend into a "let's talk about the difference between girls and boys" session. First question the girl's boyfriend gets asked by one of the other girls? "So, can you get an erection right now?" The series is just hilariously crude.
Or at least it is some of the time. At other times however, it loses its sense of reality. Being a manga/anime, you can expect that things would be exaggerated somewhat, but there are some bits that just go too far. One running gag, for instance, involves a girl who wants to be famous who keeps dressing up in outrageously absurd outfits. For some reason it's not that funny. The series seems to be at it's best when it keeps it's absurdity in check a bit more and maintains at least some sense of reality.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Totoum on Thu 28 Jan 2010 - 0:54

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Five_X wrote:Toradora deserves to be on this thread. Now, it wasn't a bad anime, I really, really enjoyed it. However, the second half of the show went downhill fast.

I was hoping they'd break the trope and not have Ryuji and Taiga hook up, but no... bang head

Well I guess you can always hope but as soon as the first minute of the first episode with the character's naration I was 99.999999999999% sure they'd hook up,I basicly thought "ok,so this is going to be a show about both of them hooking up".

With that said I can understand people's fustration with the show even if I don't share them.



Completely unrelated

Akagi fustrated the hell out of me

Great first 13 episodes with 3 great arcs,then we 13 episodes all spent on one arc,ONE!And I don't get to see how the game ends after waiting for half the series,I don't mind open endings,but this wasn't even an ending to me.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Nuke is Good on Mon 1 Feb 2010 - 2:42

@Nachtsider wrote:Wing's only redeeming factor in my eyes was the Deathscythe. That was one sexy beast.

@Nuke is Good wrote:Char's Counterattack- Ok, CHAR'S A LOLICON and the Federation are idiots for selling Char Axis after he dumped an asteroid on Earth earlier just because you gave them money?
I find myself wondering to high heaven where you got that impression from. It's quite plain to see that Char was just toying with Quess and had no interest in her beyond her potential as a weapon of war.

Incidentally, I stood up and cheered wildly when the Alpha Aizeru blew up.

When I was listening to the Japanese track, Gyunei explains to Quess about how Char was into a younger girls and talked about Lalah from the One Year War in his sleep. The word lolicon was actually thrown out there. And the way Char's Deleted Affair is unfolding make that rumored notion seem more valid.

However when I watched the english track they don't insinuate these things at all.
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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 1 Feb 2010 - 3:30

Well, that's news to me. I watched the English track.

All you subs > dubs people can draw and quarter me now.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Piero on Mon 1 Feb 2010 - 4:10

I don't really care enough about that movie to care what language you watched it in. Besides, I'm a dubfectionist, not a complete dub-hater. That is to say, I don't believe that English dubs are necessarily bad, just that they often are. (I usually find there will be at least one voice in an English dub which I will find so bad it will completely kill it for me. Sometimes I've seen an English dub where I actually really liked the voicework for one of the character but I've ended up finding I still prefer it in Japanese because the voicework for one or more of the other characters is so bad it ruins it for me.)

That being said, I have sometimes found the characterisation differences between English and Japanese versions of the same character annoying. There are times when I don't consider the English and Japanese versions to be the same character, which can sometimes make communicating with someone else who has seen the same series in a different form interesting. Laughing

I could say more, but I'm worried about openning a can of worms I don't really want to open very much...

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 1 Feb 2010 - 11:58

For me, the first language I hear it in is the one that "sets" in my mind.

So since I saw Tenchi Muyo and Ghost in the Shell first in English, I prefer them, and find the Japanese seiyuu voices to be horrible.

Lalah Sune was 17, so not exactly my idea of someone a lolicon would be interested in. Quess was 13, but as Nachtsider noted, Char had no romantic or sexual interest in her - she was just a way into the Earth Federation leadership and, later, a Newtype weapon. Not to mention Quess had a thing for older men - remember she was strongly attracted to Amuro Ray until she found out he and Chan Agi were an item.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by rusty-spring on Mon 1 Feb 2010 - 14:09

@Piero wrote:That being said, I have sometimes found the characterization differences between English and Japanese versions of the same character annoying. There are times when I don't consider the English and Japanese versions to be the same character, which can sometimes make communicating with someone else who has seen the same series in a different form interesting. Laughing
If I only watch one version (dub or Japanese) then the character differences wouldn't be noticeable right?
@Kiskaloo wrote:For me, the first language I hear it in is the one that "sets" in my mind.
That's usually how it is for me. However, if I ever repeat watching a show it's almost always in dub - weird I know. Overall though, I tend to prefer dubs. The extreme shortlist of shows that I've stuck to Japanese with (and excluding shows that have no dubs) are AMG and Lucky Star. In fact, sometimes I pass up entire seasons just for the off chance that it'll get dubbed and I won't have to read the show.

Call me crazy, but I can better interpret changes in inflection and tone in English than in Japanese - so dubs usually "hit the right spot" better. Maybe I'm just lazy and don't feel like reading for 20 minutes x 26 episodes = "A lot of time spent reading when I'd rather watch." My eyes always drift towards words if they're on screen, so I find them distracting. (Which is also why I always turn off subtitle options for video games.)

If I knew Japanese, I'm sure it'd be different.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Piero on Mon 1 Feb 2010 - 14:44

I'll admit the 'seen it first in such and such language rule' does apply a bit with me, but it's not really hard and fast. I think another 'general rule' that applies to some but not all situations is that the chances of a dub being good increase if the series is set outside of Japan.

A big determinant for me though is the voice acting. I don't really give much of a damn about reading or not reading text, perhaps because I was a pretty avid reader growing up. On the other hand, voicework can make or break the immersion into a series for me. And since it's much easier for me to recognise bad English voice work than bad Japanese voice work, well... English is a hell of a lot more likely to kill the immersion for me. Hence Japanese is the 'safe' option.

That being said, there actually are times where I've felt able to detect good and bad voice work in Japanese. And I can honestly say there are times I feel that I've been able to get the emotional content of a series better in Japanese than in English despite the language issue (and any stereotypes about Japanese people not being particularly expressive).

Truth be told though, despite my general preference for subs over dubs, there are a lot of series where I don't care that much what form people have watched them in. There just happened to be a couple where I actually do give a damn about the difference. (Mai-HiME, because I don't feel the English cast is up to handling the job, and Starship Operators, because the script for the dub seriously alters the main character's personality in the first ten minutes.)

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by boomer_gonz on Mon 1 Feb 2010 - 15:51

You all ain't heard a bad dub until you've seen the Engrish dub of Night Fever Syndrome.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 1 Feb 2010 - 15:52

But then there are dubs like the one for Ghost Stories that make a crap show epic awesome.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by rusty-spring on Mon 1 Feb 2010 - 16:17

@Piero wrote:I don't really give much of a damn about reading or not reading text, perhaps because I was a pretty avid reader growing up.
You mustn't have caught what I said.
@rusty-spring wrote:My eyes always drift towards words if they're on screen, so I find them distracting. (Which is also why I always turn off subtitle options for video games.)
I said that reading distracts me from something that I prefer personally to invest completely in watching, not reading. Thus, I prefer dubs. It has nothing to do with whether or not I have any problems reading. I too am an avid reader, but that's something I leave to the various books I enjoy, not my television.

If that doesn't bother others, that's perfectly okay as well.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 1 Feb 2010 - 16:56

While I favor subs, I do admit that I don't watch shows as often because I have to invest 100% of my attention to them, whereas with dubs I can often do something else and run them in the background.

I'm watching Witchblade on IFC HD, but after the second episode I started to lose interest in it, so now I can just run it in the background and if I hear something interesting, I can switch back to it.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Piero on Mon 1 Feb 2010 - 19:26

I was going to say more, but I think I've openned up far too much of a can of worms as is.

My apologies for instigating this, can we try to leave this issue behind and refocus on the original one?

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Reina on Mon 1 Feb 2010 - 20:09

Ugh. I could list a whole bunch of anime that were amazing in their original manga-form, but got butchered once they were animated.

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Re: Series that Should Have Been Better...

Post by Piero on Mon 1 Feb 2010 - 21:24

I'd really like to move on here, but I realised before I do that I should probably thow in an apology to Rusty for jumping to conclusions first. Sorry about that.

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