Helicopters?

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Helicopters?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Fri 19 Feb 2010 - 0:03

Can anyone tell me what helicopters were used for the villa raid in the Season 1 anime? I'm not at home right now so I can't refer to the DVD's myself.

I'm writing right now, and I've got to get 6 fratelli from Rome to Pescara fast.
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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Alfisti on Fri 19 Feb 2010 - 0:13

Look like UH-1 Iroquois? I'd be tempted to swap those out for something a bit faster if you're in a hurry.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Fri 19 Feb 2010 - 0:25

Thanks for the quick reponse.

I think those Hueys will work fine...they can cross the peninsula in under an hour, and carry all the heavy hardware (Rico gets to play with something that has a little more punch than her Dragunov).
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Re: Helicopters?

Post by funkmachine on Fri 19 Feb 2010 - 9:50

bell 412 are the chopers used by the italian air assault brigade.
the bell 412 is just a newer Huey and it look like it.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Alfisti on Fri 19 Feb 2010 - 10:34

I was under the impression that the 412 used a four-bladed rotor though, the ones in the anime are two bladed.

Then again, it wouldn't the first time an anime has missed the details

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 19 Feb 2010 - 11:30

The Aeronautica Militare fly the Agusta-Bell AB212 Twin Huey, which has two blades, so the anime correctly portrayed them.



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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Alfisti on Fri 19 Feb 2010 - 11:32

And the mystery of "Which Huey is it?" is solved!

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by emperor on Mon 22 Feb 2010 - 3:33

SWA didn't love a Little Bird?


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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 22 Feb 2010 - 10:22

It was too small for their transport needs.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by MP5 on Thu 25 Feb 2010 - 17:08

They could've also used the MD 600N, but then again, I don't remember how many people they needed to move around in the helis.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Guest on Thu 25 Feb 2010 - 18:38

You could have them each flying one of worlds smallest helicopter.

http://www.innovator.mosquito.net.nz/mbbs2/index.asp

No license required in the USA, I would love to get one but I don't know. I have already put one ultralight into a tree. I don't think I would walk away in a helicopter.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Thu 25 Feb 2010 - 18:56

dueyftw wrote:You could have them each flying one of worlds smallest helicopter.

Why am I hearing Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries played on kazoos ringing in my head?
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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Nachtsider on Thu 25 Feb 2010 - 19:00

If you don't include a 'Get to da choppah' line or reference in your writing this scene, Prof, I will Falcon Paunch you with the force of 1000 gods.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 25 Feb 2010 - 20:19

Actually, the world's smallest heli is the Soviet Kamov Ka-56




And as far as the GsG OC Universe is concerned, they was used by Fernando and Hondo in the Gunslinger Bink Series.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 25 Feb 2010 - 20:26

@Professor Voodoo wrote:Can anyone tell me what helicopters were used for the villa raid in the Season 1 anime? I'm not at home right now so I can't refer to the DVD's myself.

I'm writing right now, and I've got to get 6 fratelli from Rome to Pescara fast.
I believe its a Westland Lynx. Though I did not see a reference to Italy using them, NATO Nations do use them.

And it does look like a Huey...

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Guest on Thu 25 Feb 2010 - 21:39

@ElfenMagix wrote:Actually, the world's smallest heli is the Soviet Kamov Ka-56




And as far as the GsG OC Universe is concerned, they was used by Fernando and Hondo in the Gunslinger Bink Series.

Along with the Gen H4
http://worldamazingthings.blogspot.com/2008/07/smallest-helicopter-world-record-set-by.html

The problem with small helicopters is they needs 1hp for every 10lb of lift. At 220kg or 485lbs and only 40hp, there is a reason for no pictures of the Kamov Ka-56 that I can find of it flying. The Gen H4 has a payload of something like 120lb
More infor on the Soviet Kamov Ka-56
http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/ka-56.php
and because "the Kamov Ka-56 was never flown due to lack of suitable rotary piston engine."
http://aquilinefocus.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html

The Mosquito has a 60hp and I have seen it fly. It goes from a hover to over 70mph in about 3 seconds.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by boomer_gonz on Thu 25 Feb 2010 - 21:58

@Nachtsider wrote:If you don't include a 'Get to da choppah' line or reference in your writing this scene, Prof, I will Falcon Paunch you with the force of 1000 gods.


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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Thu 25 Feb 2010 - 22:06

@Nachtsider wrote:If you don't include a 'Get to da choppah' line or reference in your writing this scene, Prof, I will Falcon Paunch you with the force of 1000 gods.

I though the legendary Falcon Punch was only used to take care of problems when you can't afford a wire coathanger (ohhh, tasteless joke ).

Admittedly, I had to look that line up...I fail at bad '80's action movies. The scene is already written & posted...there was really no way it would have fit anyway. So...even though I'm not pregnant I guess we can try that Falcon Punch now.

@ElfenMagix wrote:I believe its a Westland Lynx. Though I did not see a reference to Italy using them, NATO Nations do use them.
As I said the scene is already posted...the Hueys were fine, they didn't play much of a part other than point A to point B.
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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 25 Feb 2010 - 22:16

I've seen enough Aeronautica Militare AB-212s (and Westland Lynxs) to be quite confident they are the former.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Alfisti on Fri 26 Feb 2010 - 1:29

dueyftw wrote:
No license required in the USA, I would love to get one but I don't know. I have already put one ultralight into a tree. I don't think I would walk away in a helicopter.

Dale

Not to mention that helicopters have this tendency to flail around like a dying animal if you try the same trick... or at least the RC ones did.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by MP5 on Fri 26 Feb 2010 - 2:14

So let's say they decide to get these relatively inexpensive Mosquitoes... in this case, Allison now has a heli just like her big brother. And then because they repaired her Lancia, she takes this to the madcaps over at Q-branch.

Allison: Ladies, Gentlemen, we have a new platform. Let's work our collective magic.

After embarking on another "McDonnell wrench-away bender"...

Allison: Brian! Brian, look what we did to this!

Brian gets a look at the updated Mosquito. The original airframe is now made of flat black CFRP, and practically-antiquated Stoner 63 machine guns in remote-fire format have been bolted to the side of the very slim airframe.

Brian: You made a light attack helicopter. Impressive!

Allison: We wanted to go whole-hog and put some rockets on this sucker, too, but that proved to be too heavy. We then tried to mount XM14 gun pods or an underbody M197 Gatling gun, but the recoil was so heavy that they actually caused the helicopter to fly backwards every time we fired. So we finally settled on a pair of Stoner 63's.

Brian: Better than nothing, right?

Allison: Indeed. We'd all read "World War Z" and found the solution to our air attack weakness...

Brian: Oh, no...

Allison: Oh, yes. I give you honest-to-goodness 5.56x45mm NATO "Cherry" PIE ammunition. (she produces a specially-tipped round from her lab coat) If you remember what this does to zed-heads, well, no question what it'll do to Padania...

And then they find out that there's a turbine version...

Allison: Now we have a proper gunship! What began life as a Mosquito XET is now a machine I would like to call "PRF Bug Stomper" She's got a long-range TADS/PNVS (Target Acquisition and Designation System/ Pilot Night Vision System) gimbal on the rotor head mast, and that helps me aim two AGM-114 Hellfire missiles, one Hydra 70mm rocket pod, one forward-firing M197 Gatling gun, and a chin-mounted Browning M2 dual-mount of machine guns. This is not a sissy toy anymore. This... is death from above.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Awinnell on Fri 26 Feb 2010 - 11:01

wait, didn't 007 do all of that already ?


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Re: Helicopters?

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 26 Feb 2010 - 13:07

Awinnell, that is a Gyroplane. It uses the rotors to provide lift like a helicopter, but it flies like a plane. The motor is not connected to the rotors and they spin from the forward motion of the craft like a pinwheel.

And yes, it was armed with missiles and 2 machine guns.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Guest on Sat 27 Feb 2010 - 16:23

@MP5 wrote:So let's say they decide to get these relatively inexpensive Mosquitoes... in this case, Allison now has a heli just like her big brother. And then because they repaired her Lancia, she takes this to the madcaps over at Q-branch.

Allison: Ladies, Gentlemen, we have a new platform. Let's work our collective magic.

After embarking on another "McDonnell wrench-away bender"...

Allison: Brian! Brian, look what we did to this!

Brian gets a look at the updated Mosquito. The original airframe is now made of flat black CFRP, and practically-antiquated Stoner 63 machine guns in remote-fire format have been bolted to the side of the very slim airframe.

Brian: You made a light attack helicopter. Impressive!

Allison: We wanted to go whole-hog and put some rockets on this sucker, too, but that proved to be too heavy. We then tried to mount XM14 gun pods or an underbody M197 Gatling gun, but the recoil was so heavy that they actually caused the helicopter to fly backwards every time we fired. So we finally settled on a pair of Stoner 63's.

Brian: Better than nothing, right?

Allison: Indeed. We'd all read "World War Z" and found the solution to our air attack weakness...

Brian: Oh, no...

Allison: Oh, yes. I give you honest-to-goodness 5.56x45mm NATO "Cherry" PIE ammunition. (she produces a specially-tipped round from her lab coat) If you remember what this does to zed-heads, well, no question what it'll do to Padania...

And then they find out that there's a turbine version...

Allison: Now we have a proper gunship! What began life as a Mosquito XET is now a machine I would like to call "PRF Bug Stomper" She's got a long-range TADS/PNVS (Target Acquisition and Designation System/ Pilot Night Vision System) gimbal on the rotor head mast, and that helps me aim two AGM-114 Hellfire missiles, one Hydra 70mm rocket pod, one forward-firing M197 Gatling gun, and a chin-mounted Browning M2 dual-mount of machine guns. This is not a sissy toy anymore. This... is death from above.

Small helicopters coming in with little girls sitting on their handlers laps, only to jump out at 50ft and land on their feet, guns dawned seems more menacing than adding fire power to the choppers.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 27 Feb 2010 - 17:00

Kara's idea of a helicopter is "Airwolf" or "Blue Thunder", but if she had to travel in one, she could go for a VIP model Agusta AB-139:





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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Sat 27 Feb 2010 - 17:19

@Kiskaloo wrote:Kara's idea of a helicopter is "Airwolf" or "Blue Thunder", but if she had to travel in one, she could go for a VIP model Agusta AB-139:

Ernest Borgnine never had a mini-bar in his helicopter!
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Re: Helicopters?

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 27 Feb 2010 - 18:22

dueyftw wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:Actually, the world's smallest heli is the Soviet Kamov Ka-56




And as far as the GsG OC Universe is concerned, they was used by Fernando and Hondo in the Gunslinger Bink Series.

Along with the Gen H4
http://worldamazingthings.blogspot.com/2008/07/smallest-helicopter-world-record-set-by.html

The problem with small helicopters is they needs 1hp for every 10lb of lift. At 220kg or 485lbs and only 40hp, there is a reason for no pictures of the Kamov Ka-56 that I can find of it flying. The Gen H4 has a payload of something like 120lb
More infor on the Soviet Kamov Ka-56
http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/ka-56.php
and because "the Kamov Ka-56 was never flown due to lack of suitable rotary piston engine."
http://aquilinefocus.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html

The Mosquito has a 60hp and I have seen it fly. It goes from a hover to over 70mph in about 3 seconds.

Dale
Somethings in will never been shown to the public, at least not for the next 40+ years.
"the Kamov Ka-56 was never flown due to lack of suitable rotary piston engine.", because it was never used in the public sector. There were more than enough power yet small engines at the time to make the Kamov KA-56 fly. And according to some sources I have heard, have actually seen it fly.

There is a lot of Spy-Tech gadgetry out there that will never be released to the public because of what it was capable of doing. This Kamov KA-56 you see is a captured unit, made for us to laugh at 'because it can not fly with a suitable engine," but I can assure you that the scientists who first looked at it were saying "Oh Shit..."

The Mosquito is a piece of technology there, and I have seen Heli-Kit simillar to the Mosquito in the states. But is it usable? Only in some parts of the world. Hear me out- living in NYC, where that Passenger Heli-crashed on top of the (new Met Life, formerly) Pam Am in May 1977, getting clearance for a personal pilots license is almost impossible in NYC. Plus the rules for flying in and around the city is another joke to be had. But once upon a time, some things were doable. Today it is not. Mind you, I'm just telling you how different things are by where I live vs. where you live.


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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 27 Feb 2010 - 20:50

@Professor Voodoo wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:Kara's idea of a helicopter is "Airwolf" or "Blue Thunder", but if she had to travel in one, she could go for a VIP model Agusta AB-139:

Ernest Borgnine never had a mini-bar in his helicopter!

It probably would have been a more fun show if he had... Wink

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Guest on Sat 27 Feb 2010 - 21:58

@ElfenMagix wrote:
dueyftw wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:Actually, the world's smallest heli is the Soviet Kamov Ka-56




And as far as the GsG OC Universe is concerned, they was used by Fernando and Hondo in the Gunslinger Bink Series.

Along with the Gen H4
http://worldamazingthings.blogspot.com/2008/07/smallest-helicopter-world-record-set-by.html

The problem with small helicopters is they needs 1hp for every 10lb of lift. At 220kg or 485lbs and only 40hp, there is a reason for no pictures of the Kamov Ka-56 that I can find of it flying. The Gen H4 has a payload of something like 120lb
More infor on the Soviet Kamov Ka-56
http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/ka-56.php
and because "the Kamov Ka-56 was never flown due to lack of suitable rotary piston engine."
http://aquilinefocus.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html

The Mosquito has a 60hp and I have seen it fly. It goes from a hover to over 70mph in about 3 seconds.

Dale
Somethings in will never been shown to the public, at least not for the next 40+ years.
"the Kamov Ka-56 was never flown due to lack of suitable rotary piston engine.", because it was never used in the public sector. There were more than enough power yet small engines at the time to make the Kamov KA-56 fly. And according to some sources I have heard, have actually seen it fly.

There is a lot of Spy-Tech gadgetry out there that will never be released to the public because of what it was capable of doing. This Kamov KA-56 you see is a captured unit, made for us to laugh at 'because it can not fly with a suitable engine," but I can assure you that the scientists who first looked at it were saying "Oh Shit..."

The Mosquito is a piece of technology there, and I have seen Heli-Kit simillar to the Mosquito in the states. But is it usable? Only in some parts of the world. Hear me out- living in NYC, where that Passenger Heli-crashed on top of the (new Met Life, formerly) Pam Am in May 1977, getting clearance for a personal pilots license is almost impossible in NYC. Plus the rules for flying in and around the city is another joke to be had. But once upon a time, some things were doable. Today it is not. Mind you, I'm just telling you how different things are by where I live vs. where you live.


I live 90 mi north of you, 3 or 4 years ago I put a Powerparachute into a tree, 45 feet in the air. What left of it is in my backyard. It has 502 single carb rotax. At 45 hp (2 carb- 50hp) and weighing about 15lb more makes the 254lb ultra light over weight and the rotax engine just usable. Adding the second carb will give about 500lb of lift, minus the 254 and 5 gallons of fuel gives the payload of about 200lb. I'm 250, the mz202 engine will lift me.

But if you took a 45hp engine and supercharge it to 80 the Kamov Ka-56 would work. I wouldn't want to fly anything that the engine is at 2 times what the design specifications are. (Or using a two and a half stroke engine- some thing that has been kept out of the public eye.)

As getting you pilots license in NY. It not such a big deal, mind you your not going to take of out of an A class air port, but B like JFK/KJFK John F. Kennedy Internationa orLGA/KLGA New York La Guardia. It just a matter of time and money. A chopper license is 20 to 40k.

Go two hours away from NYC and you can fly a ultralight, or hang-glide. No license required. The caveat is no one will sell you a hang-glider with out being certified by a hang-glider club. And ultralights are mostly sold new with training or a complete release from lawsuits because you bought it and did know what you are doing.

Currently the new rule change from heavy or trainer ultralight to sportpilot has flooded the market with illegal ultralight aircraft.

Dale

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Odon on Sat 12 Mar 2011 - 23:00

So which helicopter picks them up at the end of Teatrino? This appears to be an Agency helicopter rather than one borrowed from another organisation.




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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Odon on Sun 17 Jul 2011 - 5:50

@Odon wrote:So which helicopter picks them up at the end of Teatrino? This appears to be an Agency helicopter rather than one borrowed from another organisation.



I think this is an Augusta A109A. The appearance is the same, and they're used by the Italian military.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Odon on Mon 18 Jul 2011 - 5:49

@Nachtsider wrote:If you don't include a 'Get to da choppah' line or reference in your writing this scene, Prof, I will Falcon Paunch you with the force of 1000 gods.


You mean like this scene?

Arnie (whispers): Get to da choppa...


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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Mon 18 Jul 2011 - 13:06

Allison: (knocking softly on Jean's office door) Commander Croce, sir?

Jean: What is it?

Allison: Well, some of us girls were watching the news and the United States used stealth helicopters in their raid on Osama bin Laden's compound!

Jean: Well, stealth is a relative term when you're talking about something with a huge spinning rotor on top.

Kara: So, do you think maybe we could get some of those? The Bell AB-212's we share with Section One are positively ancient!

Jean: Sure...top secret stealth helicopters. We've got money in the budget for that as long as you agree to shut down the dining hall and live on instant ramen noodles. Hope you didn't like the heating, air conditioning and running water in the dorm either because that's gone too. In between missions you'll have to make extra money for the Agency by selling cookies and mowing lawns but with a few more cutbacks sure...we can afford those fancy new helicopters. Now get the hell out of my office.

(dejected, Kara & Allison trudge out)

Marisa: So what did he say?

Allison: Looks like it's another coat of paint & Bondo for the old Hueys.

Rico: Maybe we could paint them black this time. That's kinda stealth.


Last edited by Professor Voodoo on Mon 18 Jul 2011 - 16:17; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Awinnell on Mon 18 Jul 2011 - 14:16

i always had a soft spot for the Fairey Rotodyne,rocket propelled rotors with no torque and compound forward flight,if the engines fail it acts like an auto gyro or you can use the rocket rotor tip motors to land



Crew: 2

Capacity: 48 passengers

Length: 58 ft 8 in (17.9 m)

Rotor diameter: 90 ft 0 in (27.4 m)

Height: 22 ft 2 in (6.76 m)

Disc area: 6,360 ft² (591 m²)

Loaded weight: 33,000 lb (15,000 kg)

Max take off weight: 38,000 lb (17,000 kg)

Power Plant:

4 × rotor tip jet burning compressed air/fuel, 4,453 N () each

2 × Napier eland Turboprops, 2,800 hp (2,100 kW) each



Performance

  • top speed: 213 mph (343 km/h)
  • range: 520 mi (830 km)
  • disc loading: 5.2 lb/ft² (25 kg/m²)
  • power/mass (prop): 0.17 hp/lb (280 W/kg)


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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Odon on Mon 18 Jul 2011 - 16:31

I say, that looks like something out of Dan Dare! I'm sure atomic-powered flying cars are just round the corner too, what! Clever chappies those boffins.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Mon 18 Jul 2011 - 16:41

@Awinnell wrote:Fairey Rotodyne,rocket propelled rotors with no torque and compound forward flight,
I'd love to see the fittings that supply fuel to the blade-tip rockets yet still allow for high speed rotation. As a former aircraft mechanic that sounds like an engineer's fantasy & a wrench-turner's nightmare to me.
Crew: 2

Capacity: 48 passengers
Kara: We could get one of those!

Allison: Yeah...just one could practically carry all of Section Two!

Jean: (facepalm) The one that was built is thirty years older than the Hueys you were just complaining about. Don't you have anything better to do than annoy me?

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Odon on Mon 18 Jul 2011 - 17:21

@Professor Voodoo wrote:Jean: (facepalm) The one that was built is thirty years older than the Hueys you were just complaining about. Don't you have anything better to do than annoy me?

Jean: Not to mention they were dropped for being too noisy. Not exactly...stealth tech, eh?

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Robert Frazer on Mon 18 Jul 2011 - 17:40

Rico: No, you see, it's so noisy that it actually wraps around and becomes stealthy again, because none of the baddies would believe anyone would try to approach so obviously, and so discount it as a hostile force! It's a... *dramatic pause* backwards psychology!

Triela: You mean double-bluff.

Claes: You mean duplus decepio.

Hilshire (poking head around door): Claes, you pretentious fraud, there's no such expression, you're just trying to sound smart.

Claes: ...Okay, how about a coup de main? *leaps at the handler, hands clawed*


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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 18 Jul 2011 - 18:37

@Robert Frazer wrote:
Claes: You mean duplus decepio.

Hilshire (poking head around door): Claes, you pretentious fraud, there's no such expression, you're just trying to sound smart.

Kara: Don't mind Claes, sir. She's just practicing her cosplay for tonight's showing of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, Part 2.

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Awinnell on Tue 19 Jul 2011 - 0:44

well at 600 feet in a hover it was about 96dcb,it was a lot quieter during forward flight the rotor was unpowered then, but if it had gone into production the next gen version would of been closer to 80dcb,most helicopters are at the +100 dcb level so in fact its quieter than most 'stealth' helicopters !

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by MP5 on Tue 19 Jul 2011 - 1:38

@Professor Voodoo wrote:

Jean: Sure...top secret stealth helicopters. We've got money in the budget for that as long as you agree to shut down the dining hall and live on instant ramen noodles. Hope you didn't like the heating, air conditioning and running water in the dorm either because that's gone too. In between missions you'll have to make extra money for the Agency by selling cookies and mowing lawns but with a few more cutbacks sure...we can afford those fancy new helicopters. Now get the hell out of my office.

In a storage closet lit by a single bulb, several cyborgs meet for a discussion.

Allison: So Jean has refused our request due to budgetary reasons... this works in our favor quite well.

Kara: How so?

Allison: I have two long-term plans that will increase our funding on the side to cover the cost of new helicopters...

Allison places two folders on the desk: Operation Greener Pastures and Operation Pineapple Express

Allison: Greener Pastures is an above-board and otherwise legal operation; however, we will need backing from an adult figure to act as a middle man, in addition to funding and investment from outside sources. This all takes time and a lot of effort, and we do not know how soon we can reap the benefits. Pineapple Express, on the other hand, is at least slightly illegal, but we can make a killing very fast if we sell to the right customers. The only question is now who wants in on what...

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Re: Helicopters?

Post by Awinnell on Tue 19 Jul 2011 - 9:41

[quote="Professor Voodoo"]
@Awinnell wrote:Fairey Rotodyne,rocket propelled rotors with no torque and compound forward flight,
I'd love to see the fittings that supply fuel to the blade-tip rockets yet still allow for high speed rotation. As a former aircraft mechanic that sounds like an engineer's fantasy & a wrench-turner's nightmare to me.

couldn't find the original design,they were destroyed as part of a government cover up over the cost of the design and testing, but several people are building their own version,mostly powered by Hydrogen peroxide motors,


Spoiler:

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