Simple GSG themed logic game

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Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by Guest on Fri 7 Dec 2007 - 22:26

I was thinking I'd like to make a simple GSG themed logic game. [using VB6] I figured I'd put the idea up to get some feedback/suggestions.

The idea I settled for is a type of two player competition/puzzle on a 3*3 square board.
- Each player will take a turn placing one of 5 pieces (one for each girl) on one of the squares. (The player will also decide the facing, in one of 4 directions, of the piece at this point)
- Each piece will have a different firing zone.
- Once all the fields are filled up the players will score 1 point for each of the opponenets pieces withing the firing zone of one of his own pieces.
- Since the starting player has a clear advantage a game will consist of two rounds. The points being totalled at the end.
- There will be a time limit to the turns to make it more exciting.

This is a very preliminary idea so I'm sure it will evolve a lot as I re-think it over and get some suggestions/feedback.

Here are my initial piece ideas (girl:firing zone):
Henrietta: front, left, right.
Triela: front, front-left, front-right.
Rico: same as Triela except at a distance of 2 squared instead of 1
Claes: front-left, front-right, right-back
Angelica: front, front-right, back

[edit:]

I read it over and noticed how abstract and in the air this must be. Clarification:

Triela:


Rico:


Henrietta:


Claes:


Angelica:


The window will look something like this (although it's painfully unfinished in this pic):



Last edited by on Sat 8 Dec 2007 - 0:05; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by sasahara17 on Fri 7 Dec 2007 - 22:48

Hm... Grunt please?

(translation; idiot calling himself a law student doesn't get it. put it in simpler terms. however, this does mean he is intrested in what you got there.)

And where are the pretty pictures?

(translation; idiot calling himself a law student wants to see more graphical illustations of what you got if you have them)

EDIT; OHHHH TICK TAC TOE!

(translation; idiot calling himself a law student now sees your diagrams and wonders why they did not load up before.)

Normal speech;
Seems to me like an advanced form of battleship (that old board game) crossed with Tic Tac Toe. I'd like to see where you go with this. however i would suggest giving all the girls slightly wider firearcs. For insnace, rotating Rico wither left or right from where she was in your diagram would pretty much render her useless on a 3x3 board... hell she would be useless in any position but the four center border squares [1,2] [2,1] [2,3] [3,1]. This makes her extremly specialised, and someone like Triela (occupying [2,2]) overpowered.

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by Guest on Fri 7 Dec 2007 - 23:36

Yeah, as I said very pre-liminary.

I noticed the inequalities in thir power. Here's a chart:
Girl {(number of swuares hit -> number of positions/facings that allow this number of squares to be hit)} total number of positions

In Rico's case I was considering the fact that she can shoot over things, but after consideration I'm not sure that would ammount to much in the game.

R {(3->4)(2->8 )(0)(0->4)} 12-4=8 For
T {3->8 )(2->8 )(0)(0} 16
H {(3->8 )(2->4)(0)(0)} 12
C {3>4)(2>4)(1>4)(0)} 12
A {(3>8 )(2>12)(1>4)(0)} 24

Conclusions:
++Rico
--Triela
------Angelica

[edit] Getting all the components to fit is really hard. If the girls have too many places that they can hit everyone will end up scoring.

If I give Rico, for example, a field like this:

Then she will have 4 combinations which attack 4 sqares (which is somehting none of the other girls have, and a lot more in the other categories.)

As I said the idea is very raw. I have been considering a whole bunch of things:
- Whether to make the board bigger.
- Whether to count points when the board is filled or have the some different way of deciding when confrontations are resolved.
- I was also thinking whether to have initiative. Rico could have 1st shot and that would offset the limited applications, then H and C would take 2nd, and T and A would move last. Or something.

Anyway It would be helpful if someone was willing to "play test" the game.
It's really simple, you save the immage below and then put a letter and a little arrow indicating the facing on one of the squares and then post it on the thread.


I'll make the first move if anyone wants to (I use blue/use different color. Each girl can only be used once): [Triela facing up]


p.s. :lol!: This is the 666 post in thie "Oh god there she goes again" category.

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by sasahara17 on Sat 8 Dec 2007 - 5:35

How do I post pictures?

The 666 curse is broken with the power of lucky number (66)7!

Anyway, I'll help you playtest 3-klicks.

O_R_O
O_O_O
O_T_O

My first move. Rico's rifle faces Triela.

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by Guest on Sat 8 Dec 2007 - 9:45

[edit]Sorry for the sudden change. I gigured out a variation that will actually make for more stratedy and will be less ambiguous as to the points. See bottom of this post.



@sasahara17 wrote:How do I post pictures?

LoC made a good tootorial, but I'm not sure where it is. If I find it I'll post a link. For now:

1. Go to Imageshack
http://www.imageshack.us/

2. Click "browse", select the file you want to upload
(you might want to check the "resize box" if you're using a big image)

3. Click "upload", a new screen will appear

4. At the bottom of the page there will be a URL labeled "Direct link to image", copy that link.

5. Put it on the forum in this format:


I'm stumped, though. Anything you post here seems to end up in PNG format, which is unreadable to paint (or at least my version of paint), so downloading and working on the ampty grid I provided might be difficult. I guess I'll just post it like I did in this post.

Heres some more thoughts:
- I'm beggining to think that with the way it is set up now, games will most often finish with a tie. Since once the board is full, and the score is tallied up, all the pieces are likely to be in firing range. But, I guess we'll see.
- I'm contemplating making the board 4*4, 5*5, or possibly 4*5. This will offset Rico's disadvantage since there will be more room, and her ability to cover fields at a distance will be more valuable. It will also add more strategy to the game.
- I'm thinking of changing the rules so that you cannot place a piece in a field that is already in your opponents line of fire. This will make the result less likely to be a tie and there will be more strategy involved. (Only you will be able to place pieces on areas that you have covered with you fire; so you will be able to "cover" your pieces and attempt to control the board.)

[Notes:
- My first thought was to use C++ (which I can make most simple programs work in), but then I would have to use the Allegro.lib and that's a hell of a lot of work (and I'm bad at it so I'm not even sure whether I could make it work for this purpose). So I fell back on good'ol Visual Basic (version 6, the new 2005 just didn't feel right), but that means I will have to relearn practically all the commands (I do remember the interface pretty well). If anyone has experience in VB and knows how to load immages during run-time that would save me a lot of work. (I'm not sure how to include the "ImageList" control from comctl32.ocx. I get a "can't load") If I don't figure that out I'll just go for brute force and stack multiple hidden images.

p.s. thank god VB was designed to be idiot-proof.]

[edit] Currently the best idea seems (to me) to be:
- 4x4 board
- Each player has the 5 girls can place each only once
- You cannot place a girl into a square that is already in the firing zone of an enemy girl. (You can place them in your own firing zones)
- The game ends when a player has no valid moves to make or when both players run out of pieces
- Each player must place a piece each turn
- At the end of the game each girl scores one point, for her player, for each enemy in her firing zone. (So you can score multiple times off a singel one of your opponents pieces.)

While the 3x3 version had some strategic quirks, I think this version actually forces the players to think a bit.

Here's the new board and my first move (iI you're still interested, sasahara. (If anyone else is interested in playing they are very welcome))



The firing zones will be marked by dots to make things easier. If multiple girls fire at a single square there will be more then one dot. If at least one girl from each side fires at an empty square it will be marked with an X because noone can place a piece there.

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by sasahara17 on Sat 8 Dec 2007 - 19:00


Bingo, got it...
EDIT-wait, Henrietta is in Angie's firing Arc isn't she? Damn I gotta go back and fix this! Gimmie a sec...

Okay!

and if you want to test a 4x4 game...

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by Guest on Sat 8 Dec 2007 - 22:54

I'd go with the 4x4 version. I tested it out and it actually gets complicated at times.

Did you mean this?


(Your allowed to, and score points for, placing your pieces so that their firing arc encompases enemy pieces. What you are not allowed to do is place a piece into an already existing firing arc of an enemy piece.)

A) If that is what you meant then my response it:


B) If you knew about that and meant what you posted then my response it:


I don't think the 3x3 game will work out, but if you want here's my reply: (remember that in this one you are allowed to place pieces into the opponents line of fire.)

(note: you can score multiple points if you have the opponent's piece covered by more then one of yours. So (2,3) scores 2 points; one for A and one for R.)

[notes:
- I'm pretty happy with the strategy/playability ration in the 4x4 ver. with new rules, so I will proubably use that. I will see how the game with sasahara will end.
- I think I will switch to "VB 2008 Express". The VB6 is giving me trouble. Although that might be the bus file I deleted to get it to work. sweat
- This will be more work then I thought. It seems that you can't make multidimensional arrays in VB like you could in C++, and I'm not sure whether you can make structures.
- I did make progress on the graphics design, and did a tiny bit of coding.
- I think I will be like Microsoft. Laughing Expect to see the release sometime next year, if at all.
Here's the current window.]



p.s. Sasahara, I will list you in the credits if I make it to the end of this project. Smile

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by Guest on Sun 9 Dec 2007 - 0:28

Ok, as I read on, I think I'm slowly (very slowly) gaining the idea behind the game... but I still don't get it. (You have to excuse me... I'm usually extremely slow).

I think I ... got it? So, you score by getting 'hits' on your opponent's characters? Can you hit your own characters, and/or can you hit multiple charcters?

We could use more than 5. Perhaps we could include some OC's, + Elsa, + other two?

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by Guest on Sun 9 Dec 2007 - 13:45

ColonelMarksman wrote:Ok, as I read on, I think I'm slowly (very slowly) gaining the idea
behind the game... but I still don't get it. (You have to excuse me...
I'm usually extremely slow).

I think I ... got it? So, you score
by getting 'hits' on your opponent's characters? Can you hit your own
characters, and/or can you hit multiple charcters?

We could use more than 5. Perhaps we could include some OC's, + Elsa, + other two?

The rules are evolving fluidly as I attempt to adjust them to the newest observations, so they are hard to gather. Here's a summary of the current ones (answers to the two questions you asked included):
- Current board size is 4x4
- Each player has 5 pieces (one of each girl, so each can only be used once). [To get one field to be able to show 5 girls in 4 different facings I have to place 20 immages stacked on that sqare alone and write many, many lines of code. To get all the tiles I have to place 20x12=240 different immages and code every one of them. So adding new more characters would be a lot of work. The limited possibilities are also partially good for the strategy of the game since you have to be careful when you use each girl and where she may fit.]

- The turn progressess as follows:
* The player chooses a pieces to place
* The player chooses which way the piece will face
* The player places the piece
* Squares in that piece's line of fire get a dot of teh appropriate color (if they are already in other line(s) of fire the dots add up.
* Squares that are in the line of fire of both sides get crossed out
* Next player's turn

- You cannot place a piece into an already existing line of fire of an opponent.
- You may place a piece into a square that is covered by your own line of fire. (This is part of the strategy. If you have a place you expect you will want to place a piece you can cover it with your line of fire so that the opponent can't place his piece there. He can still cover the same square with his line of fire, in turn, then, since the square is in the line of fire of both sides it becomes crossed out since no one can place a piece there.)
- Lines of fire are cummulative, so you can score many points by getting a single enemy piece into multiple lines of fire.

I havn't been thinking about making the instructions before I am well into making the game, but here's a sample of an example.

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by Guest on Sun 9 Dec 2007 - 21:57

Ohhh... ok, ok. That's an interesting concept game, I wonder why I haven't seen anything like it before.

This would probably work much better (more easier) as a board game than it would on a computer. You would have 10 squares, 5 character squares, and 5 "X" squares in a 4x4 square board. The red and blue dots (maybe even black and green) are magetic markers (as are the squares) that fit into either the block, or onto a square.

When does the game end?

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by Sintendo on Sun 9 Dec 2007 - 22:08

... Kind of like Triple triad?
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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by Guest on Sun 9 Dec 2007 - 22:30

The game ends when both players use up all their pieces or when a player has no legal move to make. The ammount of turns may vary since different ways of placing the girls will result in different possibilities.

ColonelMarksman wrote:
This would probably work much better (more easier) as a board game
than it would on a computer. You would have 10 squares, 5 character
squares, and 5 "X" squares in a 4x4 square board. The red and blue dots
(maybe even black and green) are magetic markers (as are the squares)
that fit into either the block, or onto a square.
Laughing Well, yes, it would be a lot easier to make. But, thanks to this I have a fun way to reintroduce myself to Visual Basic. If I really go for it I may end up using a different program and possibly allow for a by the internet game. But, that's some advanced stuff, and I'm an amature at best, so I'll just see as I go along.

You need 10 character squares, since each player gets the same set of 5 girls (sure it's not exactly logical, but it's the only way to make it fun and even.)

The Xes are just the by-product of a square getting into the line of fire of both teams and are there for conveninence, so they're not necessary.

@Sintendo wrote:... Kind of like Triple triad?
I'm not sure what the exact rules of Triple Triad are, but the concept is similar from what I gleaned from a 15 second look at wikipedia.

I'm in a bit of a bind as far as the character's are concerned. I need 100x100 pixel (prefferably high resolution) immages, and these are proving very hard to find.

Also the LoFs are important. I'm happy with H and T, but I'm still not sure about how the final LoF for the others should look like to make things most interesting. Rico is a fun tile, since she can hit any of the girls without getting into their LoF, but she needs room to do it, so It's likely I will leave her as is. I'm most displeased with the shape for angelica, since it's not symetrical. You can rotate the tile, but you can't flip it.

Anyway, if anyone finds or knows where to find good 100x100 pixel immages of the girls I would be very grateful. (They can be slightly larger, or smaller but have to be high enough res so that the resizing won't ruin them)





[edit]
Just figured out that I've been really dumb. I can just have the images relocate themselves to the appropriate square during run time, instead of having every possible image stacked in invisible mode on every square. (This means I can use 40 instead of 480)

Marksman, I considered the whole board game idea. I wanted to make the game in VB so that I'd have a way to relearn it (so that's what I'll do), but the idea itself fits a board game best (and was originally designed on grid paper), so I'll make that when I have some spare time.

I thought I'd have this finished by the end of winter break, but stuff happened, and now I'm going back to Poland to help out my family for an indefinite period of time, so it'll all be delayed.

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by Guest on Thu 13 Dec 2007 - 22:46

Not having immages of the right size, and uncertainty about whether to use VB 6 or VB Express 2008 have pretty much stopped the programing process for now, but I have been working on the paper version. Two options for the map, formatted to fit printable area, I have the tile frames as well. but don't have any pictures to put in them. At below 100x100 pixels I think I will end up using sprites, but I havn't found any on the internet so I might actually end up having to make my own.

Maps:
[img]






Currently I can't decide on the color scheme for the two sides and the "Line of Fire" counters. Here are a bunch of possibilities I've been contemplating (feedback appreciated):


:| ⭐ 👅 Smile :lol!: Hallelujah! Whatever it was it's fixed now, and I can use smilie again.


[edit] Really hard to find graphics of the right size. Here's a possible set of Henrietta pieces:

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by emperor on Mon 26 May 2008 - 10:09


Any update 3klicks?

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by KodokuRyuu on Mon 26 May 2008 - 23:35

This looks like a really great idea, wish I knew more VB6 so I could lend you a hand with coding - I mostly just know .NET 2003. Love the maps, though if you have to pick just one I'd say the first one is clearer as to what it represents. I like the Henrietta tiles. For the line of fire counters: I'd say A1 and B1 are the best followed by C1, D1, C2, and D2. If you could write up some good pseudo code, I think I could write this up in Java and make it into a web app - then we'd be able to play online. Could probably write up some AI for it too (to allow for human vs. computer). Anyway, here's my advice as your senpai: stick with the game and finish it. It's good to refresh your memory of a language. Also, if you have any tough spots in the code you can't figure out, I may still be able to help you, so let me know.
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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by West Nile on Tue 27 May 2008 - 6:01

I wana see a GSG dating sim! ^_^

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by emperor on Tue 27 May 2008 - 10:35

@West Nile wrote:I wana see a GSG dating sim! ^_^

With many bonus H-scenes for you too

:face:

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by LoC978 on Tue 27 May 2008 - 14:37

NO

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by rusty-spring on Tue 27 May 2008 - 15:38

@LoC978 wrote:NO

My sentiments exactly...if at the very least for the idea that the girls are all doomed to die early with high probability that it'll be violent.

It's like sex scenes in horror movies. They may be humorous, but definitely not hot.

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by KodokuRyuu on Wed 28 May 2008 - 0:07

If you want a GSG dating sim H-game, play Bittersweet Fools.
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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 28 May 2008 - 1:32

Doesn't count. Ain't no cyborg kids with guns in there.

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by West Nile on Wed 28 May 2008 - 3:18

i didn't say anyting about d H-factor, i just want an innocent guy x girl dating sim!

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by Guest on Wed 28 May 2008 - 5:46

Then go to the 'Your fanart/fanfiction' section and play Cyborg raising project! Laughing

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Re: Simple GSG themed logic game

Post by West Nile on Wed 28 May 2008 - 8:30

i am, i got the weirdest conclutions... seriously

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