Dedicated Sniper and Anti-Material Rifles

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Re: Dedicated Sniper and Anti-Material Rifles

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 9 May 2014 - 17:30

So while Kara mostly did "close-up" work when sniping, for the Rehabilitation Branch Kumari will be doing much longer-ranged engagements because of the nature of working in cartel-controlled territory. 

Since they now work for the Americans, I am thinking of using American weapons like the Remington MSR (in .338 LM) and M110 as they are combat-tested and have received good reviews from the troops. The other option is to go with the "classics" like the Sako TRG-22/42 and Accuracy International Arctic Warfare.

There is also the option of the "all-in-one" with the Desert Tactical Arms Stealth Recon which can quickly be adapted to shoot anything from .243 Winchester to .338LM.

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Re: Dedicated Sniper and Anti-Material Rifles

Post by John_234 on Fri 9 May 2014 - 18:51

@Odon wrote:
@John_234 wrote:
@Odon wrote:A story I'm working on involves a secret meeting between Hilshire and Roberta Guellfi.  Worried that the Agency might gatecrash things, her bodyguards are armed with Gepard GP6 Lynx rifles (with 0.50 Raufoss Mk211 rounds) and SPAS-15 shotguns (with FRAG-12 High Explosive Armor-Piercing shells).  Do y'all think this is an effective package?
I don't think they're particularly more effective. The FRAG-12 was basically designed for saturation fire from the AA-12 against intermediate barriers. The problem with it is you still have to directly strike the target, which isn't easy with your typical pump or autoloading shotgun, especially at rifle distances. I also don't know if it's designed to cycle in standard shotguns, since it is designed for the AA-12.

So some kind of rifled slug round?  Maybe a barrier penetration magnum shell.
Just a 7.62x51mm rifle, IMO. A shotgun will generally speaking be inferior to a rifle. Slugs kick harder, have more drop, are less accurate and don't always hit harder than rifle equivalents. Unless it's a characterization thing for a mook or something, like some dude using a specific gun all the time.

If you want to go the explosive route, maybe a 40mm grenade launcher.

@Piero wrote:
@John_234 wrote:I find 'weapon hidden in plain sight' is something more for accidents or eventualities. A sniper rifle is a weapon that's employed with discretion from what's preferably a long distance. Like was said, you'd probably transport them from a vehicle or retrieve them from a dead drop.

Though honestly I think people do have a tendency to bring more gun than a job needs. In a typical 'sniper shot' in the urban Italian areas, you could really just use a short-barreled rifle with a suppressor and an optic. A short barreled weapon is not less accurate. It may have less muzzle velocity, and in turn more drop and less soft tissue effect, but if you're shooting so close it might be a lot better than a bolt gun where you can make fast follow-up shots.

Keep in mind the Dragunov is not especially accurate. It's pretty much a battle rifle, and its use reflects that precision isn't 100% necessary.

Point on the too much gun thing.  Diana actually keeps a little clip on 4x Hensoldt in her HK53's viola case.  But the G3-SG/1 is her "iconic" weapon so I like it to see some use, even if the HK53 gets lugged around town more frequently.  Also I think an ability to transport a weapon covertly without a vehicle is potentially useful -even for something as simple as transporting the weapon to and from the handler's vehicle.

As a note, I was thinking Diana's sniper training concentrated on ranges of 600 meters and less.  Ditto Rosetta (the girl with the AW Covert).


How bout this? Stick a collapsing stock on the G3, even if it is a bit of a case of blasphemy? Though the H&K's stock comes off with two pins, so it might not be a huge issue. Definitely not fitting into a small case either way.

I suppose at 600 meters if you're trying to strike a man-sized target with a cold shot, I'd start moving away from battle rifles like the G3/SG1 toward more specialized platforms like bolt guns and AR-10s.

@Piero wrote:I have read very mixed things about the Dragunov SVD's accuracy.  According to some only a highly tuned Dragunov would be able to meet the accuracy standards the weapons supposedly had to meet in order to be accepted.  On the other hand there are claims that Finnish military Dragunovs with high quality Lapua ammo can shoot 0.75 MOA.

I don't really consider the Dragunov SVD a "battle rifle" in the sense of a FAL, G3 or M14 even if accurized M14s have comparable accuracy.  Simply because it was designed from the ground up as a specialist sharpshooter's weapon while the others were designed for more general issue.
It is true the SVD was designed to rectify design features in the AKM that were prone to reducing accuracy. Changing from long-stroke gas piston to short stroke, making a receiver from scratch, a different gas block and especially the ammo.

However, it is designed for tolerances that are different from Western standards. The nearest equivalent is the PSG-1, which isn't mechanically very different from the G3, but is far more accurate consistently. It wasn't designed with that expectation in mind though, and it's more of a squad-level marksman's rifle, which is more analogous to what the Western world uses the G3 and M14 for.

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Re: Dedicated Sniper and Anti-Material Rifles

Post by Piero on Sun 11 May 2014 - 0:32

You could probably modify a G3-SG/1 to use a the G3A4's collapsible stock if you also changed the recoil buffer (G3-SG/1s use a heavy two stage recoil buffer), but I question whether it would be very stable.  I also tend to prefer to keep the weapons of my first Gen OCs relatively stock.  (Though I have considered a reflex type suppressor for Diana's SG/1 and a Surefire 628 forend for her HK53.)

I'd kind of thought the G3-SG/1 would be adequate for ranges up to 600 meters, but with its accuracy rated at about 1-1.5 MOA with good ammo I guess it might be advisable for her to aim center of mass at upper end of that envelope.  Though apparently a guy who helped the Kenyan army re-introduce sniping claimed over a third of his students could hit a head sized target at 950 meters despite the rangefinder on the SG/1's scope maxing out at 600.  Then again he didn't specify whether those were first round hits.

One problem with both the G3-SG/1 and Dragunov is how many people have experience with even Chinese Dragunov clones in .308 or civilian G3 clones fitted with demilled SG/1 parts kits -let alone the real deal?  Its not really that easy to verify some of the claims made about the accuracy of these rifles.  Especially since it probably varies from example to example.

Speaking of claims, supposedly Dragunov SVDs are more accurate if the shooter grips the magazine instead of the handguard.  That actually seems believable.  The claim that having the bayonet mounted is useful for long range shooting seems iffy though.

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Re: Dedicated Sniper and Anti-Material Rifles

Post by John_234 on Sun 11 May 2014 - 16:39

@Piero wrote:You could probably modify a G3-SG/1 to use a the G3A4's collapsible stock if you also changed the recoil buffer (G3-SG/1s use a heavy two stage recoil buffer), but I question whether it would be very stable.  I also tend to prefer to keep the weapons of my first Gen OCs relatively stock.  (Though I have considered a reflex type suppressor for Diana's SG/1 and a Surefire 628 forend for her HK53.)

I'd kind of thought the G3-SG/1 would be adequate for ranges up to 600 meters, but with its accuracy rated at about 1-1.5 MOA with good ammo I guess it might be advisable for her to aim center of mass at upper end of that envelope.  Though apparently a guy who helped the Kenyan army re-introduce sniping claimed over a third of his students could hit a head sized target at 950 meters despite the rangefinder on the SG/1's scope maxing out at 600.  Then again he didn't specify whether those were first round hits.

One problem with both the G3-SG/1 and Dragunov is how many people have experience with even Chinese Dragunov clones in .308 or civilian G3 clones fitted with demilled SG/1 parts kits -let alone the real deal?  Its not really that easy to verify some of the claims made about the accuracy of these rifles.  Especially since it probably varies from example to example.

Speaking of claims, supposedly Dragunov SVDs are more accurate if the shooter grips the magazine instead of the handguard.  That actually seems believable.  The claim that having the bayonet mounted is useful for long range shooting seems iffy though.
I just don't find the G3/SG1 remotely practical for anything requiring discreet transportation, or firing with a smaller shooter. I guess you could try to dissemble it into rifle and stock maybe, It's truly a big firearm, and if you insist on using it I think only the prepared shooting position sort of deal really makes sense.

If the stock change is impractical, maybe a second G3 works. I dunno.

Again you are working with a sharpshooter in a conventional military context, where first shot hits are less an issue than simply reaching out to a longer range than a normal rifle. At the time, nobody who was actually engaging in counter-terrorism used the G3/SG1, since the PSG1 existed around the same time and was purpose-built for it. Even then though, engagement ranges in counter-terrorism are pretty short for safety reasons.

I know of a person who fired one of the rare Dragunov imports. He found it exceptionally accurate compared to any other AK variant,  used it in a few impromptu rifle competitions. Tore it down to confirm it was short stroke, the receiver was built right and all that. No 'X' mark like a .308 clone. He also happened to like the PTR-91 for being pretty accurate but... at the end of the day, he did admit ARs were more accurate than both.

Its just due to engineering. Receiver rigidity doesn't matter with an AR so much given the bolt locks into the barrel and even a clumsily built one can be somewhat a shooter. In that sense it's not that the G3 or SVD are inaccurate, but the standard of an exceptionally accurate rifle has moved on a bit.

From a characterization perspective I don't personally think its a big deal. If someone's shot the same gun for a long time, they're probably going to keep using it because of experience built upon it. Paper accuracy probably doesn't matter in the least.

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Re: Dedicated Sniper and Anti-Material Rifles

Post by Piero on Sat 17 May 2014 - 15:57

Presumably the PSG-1 has an accuracy advantage to justify the increased weight and bulk, but the G3-SG/1 and HK33-SG/1 have both seen use by police sharpshooters (I've even read things indicating the HK33-SG/1 was marketed mainly to police).  As of 2011 familiarization with the G3-SG/1 was part of the Carabinieri's marksmanship course.  Which might actually be the best reason for Diana to use one, as her handler is former Carabinieri/GIS and would be familiar with the weapon.

Its also probably worth noting that things have changed over the last decade or so.  When the GSG anime aired in 2004, the only regular production SR-25s Knight Armaments would certify as being able to shoot under 1 MOA were the ones with 24 inch heavy barrels -the 24 inch "Match" rifles were certified for under 1 MOA but the 20 inch "Lightweight Match" rifles weren't.  Today, not even the sniper rifle versions of the SR-25 have a barrel length exceeding twenty inches.

I have considered a 7.62mm AR style weapon for a few characters though.  Alessia uses one of the older 24 inch heavy barrel guns (either a SR-25 Match or an older version of the  AR-10T) and I've consider one of the German built 7.62mm ARs that will take G3 mags for Gina (one of my second Gen OCs).

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Re: Dedicated Sniper and Anti-Material Rifles

Post by John_234 on Sat 17 May 2014 - 16:12

That's a commercial example though. People have been building accurate rifles for a very long time, and the options have been out there, if at cost. And while AR-10s were an example for autoloaders, maybe a break-down bolt rifle would be more useable than a G3 variant when you have to transport it.

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Re: Dedicated Sniper and Anti-Material Rifles

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 3 Jul 2014 - 8:24

Is anyone able to identify the sniper rifle Tina Sprout employs on the anime Black Bullet?

http://bayrizki.deviantart.com/art/Black-Bullet-Tina-Sprout-Kakoii-Gunner-HD-Rend-459079385

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Re: Dedicated Sniper and Anti-Material Rifles

Post by Kurosaka "Ery" Erika on Thu 3 Jul 2014 - 9:38

@Kiskaloo wrote:Is anyone able to identify the sniper rifle Tina Sprout employs on the anime Black Bullet?

http://bayrizki.deviantart.com/art/Black-Bullet-Tina-Sprout-Kakoii-Gunner-HD-Rend-459079385
kinda remind me of Accuracy international AX-50, based on the stock and muzzle brake... but since it's Sci-fi anime style... it's a sci-fi sniper rifle then Razz

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Re: Dedicated Sniper and Anti-Material Rifles

Post by Awinnell on Sat 12 Jul 2014 - 17:24

So self guiding bullets are now a real thing


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Re: Dedicated Sniper and Anti-Material Rifles

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 12 Jul 2014 - 17:47


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