What if they'd got a different cyborg?

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What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Alfisti on Fri 23 Apr 2010 - 8:42

I know a couple of people have already played with this... but for those of us who haven't (or those who have and want to elaborate) The question's this:

How might your handler's attitude toward their cyborg, or even the cyborgs in general, be different if they'd got a different kid?



This is something I've been thinking on for the last couple of days and I've come to the conclusion that Jethro's attached to Monty because she's, well... because she's Monty. Given different circumstances he could have just as easily become a Jean or possibly even a Lauro. Somehow I doubt though, that he could have become a Jose.

Allow me to explain.

Jethro's very basic personality is of someone who gets the job done. There's all sorts of layers of humor, morals and mischief on top, but that's the bedrock. I also mentioned somewhere that he doesn't particularly like children, or completely agree with how the SWA operates. That doesn't however mean that he would automatically feel great amounts of guilt or sympathy toward the girls. The way Jethro sees it; he didn't put them there and at the end of the day there's a task to be completed and one way or the other it's going to get done.

Monty gets her freedoms (and Jethro's concern) because she's proven herself: she's someone Jethro respects, likes (both on personal and professional levels), genuinely adores and trusts implicity. As a function of this, if everything goes pearshaped then he's not going to question her judgement. He might give pointers on what went wrong, but they'll be pointers, not a right bollocking. However, if Monty hadn't risen to the challenge, had she turned out as a Henrietta or an Angelica (I like both characters, but we're talking Jethro's point of view here), then the relationship could well have been different. Oh he would have tried to make it work, minimal conditioning, plenty of training... but if things didn't seem to be going to plan eventually he would have shrugged his shoulders, doped her up like Rico, taken his now somewhat blunted (in his opinion) weapon and gotten on with the task in hand. Jethro's not going to keep struggling with something that's not working if he doesn't have to. He wouldn't enjoy it, but there's more than one way to skin a cat. Some are less preferable than others but eventually you take the one you can make work best and roll with it. I'm sure Jean would have been over the moon.

Had that happened then Jethro would likely have shared Jean's view that cyborgs are tools. As things are, he views the other cyborgs through the lens of Monty (though probably with a quiet, unvoiced feeling akin to "mine's better") and sees them as people to be cared for instead (though still put in harm's way as it is afterall; their job, just like it's his). His patience still isn't endless mind, fuck up enough times and you'll eventually get relegated to "people who don't get an opinion", but it's at least more durable than his cyborg's. People don't even start on her Christmas Card list.


Executive summary: Jethro cares for Monty because of who she is not what she is. Had she been someone different, he may not have cared for her at all, cyborg or no.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 23 Apr 2010 - 9:52

Michele firmly sees the cyborgs as people, not tools. He had real issues with how Marco treated Angelica in the end, though he (wrongly) views Angelica as somewhat "his" due to their time together during the early days of the program which...corrupts...his view. He's also not pleased with how Jean treats Rico, but he views her more dispassionately than he does Angelica.

Kara has had an immense influence on him, and that she shares his "toys are cool" mantra certainly helped. She is a bit flighty as a person, but when it comes to the mission, she buckles down and gets the job done.

If he had been paired with Claes from the start, he would have at least started to treat her as he did when she joined his fratello, but since she is much more "no nonsense" than Kara, I expect she would have tempered his own...flashiness...with a good dose of practicality.

Henrietta and Beatrice would probably be the two worst cyborgs to pair with him. Henrietta because she's so emotional and Beatrice because she's so not emotional. As an ex-Air Force light Colonel he can instill discipline in Henrietta, but having an 11-year old infatuated with him would seriously unnerve him, just as Kara's desire for a closer and more physical relationship makes him uncomfortable.

On the flip side, while the fact that Claes doesn't want to be close to him in that way makes him more comfortable around her, having his cyborg feel nothing - both for him or anything - like Beatrice would make him almost as uncomfortable as having her infatuated with him.

Which is why NoŽl is going to be a serious challenge to him.

Honestly, of all the canon and OC cyborgs, if Michele didn't have Kara, he'd probably work best with Monty. She shares his sense of style and that strong professional streak would have appealed to the military side of Michele. He'd probably treat her as a junior officer and a trusted adjutant / aide de camp.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Alfisti on Fri 23 Apr 2010 - 10:00

@Kiskaloo wrote:Which is why NoŽl is going to be a serious challenge to him.

This is actually something I've been wondering, as a hypothetical: just how he might have been different if he'd got NoŽl first rather than Kara. I'm running on my own assumptions here but I imagine if his first cyborg experience hadn't been such a positive one he may not even have tried a second of third?


@Kiskaloo wrote:He'd probably treat her as a junior officer and a trusted adjutant / aide de camp.

Which, interestingly, is essentially one of the roles Monty fills for Jethro: If Jethro knows it, Monty knows it... in fact a lot of the time she probably knows it first 'cause she's reading his mail

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 23 Apr 2010 - 10:28

@Alfisti wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:Which is why NoŽl is going to be a serious challenge to him.

This is actually something I've been wondering, as a hypothetical: just how he might have been different if he'd got NoŽl first rather than Kara. I'm running on my own assumptions here but I imagine if his first cyborg experience hadn't been such a positive one he may not even have tried a second of third?

Honestly? I expect not.

He views the girls like mayflies - cursed with a short lifespan and trying to pack a lifetime of experiences into a handful of years. It's part of the reason why he spoils all of them, and doubly so with Kara.

With NoŽl, his life would have pretty much been all-business. He'd have started out like Bernardo, but he couldn't have kept up that gregariousness over the long haul. I think that, like he would if he'd been paired with Monty, come to view her as a junior Commissioned Officer and an Aide de Camp and when she passed, he'd have just walked away.

By Once Again, Michele is tired. The war with Padania and the Five Republics is now entering it's second decade and while the PM feels that they can win with a final "surge", it's only because of his life with Kara and Claes that gave him the strength to take another cyborg and try and see things through and accept his friends request to partner with NoŽl.

@Alfisti wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:He'd probably treat her as a junior officer and a trusted adjutant / aide de camp.

Which, interestingly, is essentially one of the roles Monty fills for Jethro: If Jethro knows it, Monty knows it... in fact a lot of the time she probably knows it first 'cause she's reading his mail

That's what a good "dog robber" does. Yes Indeed


Last edited by Kiskaloo on Fri 23 Apr 2010 - 10:32; edited 2 times in total
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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Alfisti on Fri 23 Apr 2010 - 11:15

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Alfisti wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:Which is why NoŽl is going to be a serious challenge to him.

This is actually something I've been wondering, as a hypothetical: just how he might have been different if he'd got NoŽl first rather than Kara. I'm running on my own assumptions here but I imagine if his first cyborg experience hadn't been such a positive one he may not even have tried a second of third?

Honestly? I expect not.

He views the girls like mayflies - cursed with a short lifespan and trying to pack a lifetime of experiences into a handful of years. It's part of the reason why he spoils all of them, and doubly so with Kara.

With NoŽl, his life would have pretty much been all-business. He'd have started out like Bernardo, but he couldn't have kept up that gregariousness over the long haul. I think that, like he would if he'd been paired with Monty, come to view her as a junior Commissioned Officer and an Aide de Camp and when she passed, he'd have just walked away.

Well I don't think Jethro's going to be able to walk away should Monty pass... infact I think he'd be shattered. Should it happen she's killed on the job there'd likely be a Roaring Rampage of Revenge, and then he'd just go into shut-down. Oh, he'd get over it a year, 18 months.... but there'd always be a Monty shaped hole in his life. That's probably one of the reasons he tends to take the coward's way out there and just try not think about it... because he honestly doesn't know how he'd deal with it. Fortunately I've got a few tentative plans as to how to deal with Monty's mortality.

That said, like Michele, I think if he had got someone like NoŽl... effectively a cyborg he had to condition more heavily, he would probably just be able to walk away at the end. He'd probably even be slightly relieved. Either way, and no matter which girl he got, I doubt he'd be able to come around for a second innings like Michele.


This got horribly morbid all of a sudden

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 23 Apr 2010 - 11:58

@Alfisti wrote:Well I don't think Jethro's going to be able to walk away should Monty pass... infact I think he'd be shattered.

Michele was lucky - he and Kara left the Agency and Kara lived the rest of her life as a "normal" girl and when she did pass, he had Claes - someone who understood him and herself knew what losing someone important to them (in her case, Raballo) could do. I expect as Michele helped Claes deal with Raballo's loss when her memories came back, she helped Michele deal with Kara's loss when she passed.

@Alfisti wrote:Should it happen she's killed on the job there'd likely be a Roaring Rampage of Revenge, and then he'd just go into shut-down.

When Claes asked Michele what would happen when Kara dies, he noted he'd "Blaspheme in Saint Peters". But he has a family and friends and comrades outside the Agency who know he and Kara "are together" and while they may not know what they did together, they would be there to support him when she passed. Plus, Michele harbors that secret fear in the back of his head that she will die in the field. She's been shot, after all, so if she did fall in the line of fire, part of him would have been, if not ready for it, able to accept it.

@Alfisti wrote:This got horribly morbid all of a sudden

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 23 Apr 2010 - 23:20

In Solution's Resolution Fernando was supposed to get a cyborg of his own as part of an incentive for him to quit the CIA and join the SWA, which he was not to entirely happy about having some girl being turned into a robo-chick to do his morbid bidding, despite how badly she was before she went through the process. Having his little girl 'given to him' like some gift set the stage for the rest of the story.

To him, having another girl would be like raising a second Rachel. Teaching her everything so she could survive missions and live a life... that would be a second Rachel to him. It is more or less what he is going through with Francesca, though the older age and other factors makes some things easy and other things hard.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Alfisti on Sat 24 Apr 2010 - 12:53

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Alfisti wrote:Well I don't think Jethro's going to be able to walk away should Monty pass... infact I think he'd be shattered.

Michele was lucky - he and Kara left the Agency and Kara lived the rest of her life as a "normal" girl and when she did pass, he had Claes - someone who understood him and herself knew what losing someone important to them (in her case, Raballo) could do. I expect as Michele helped Claes deal with Raballo's loss when her memories came back, she helped Michele deal with Kara's loss when she passed.
Unfortunately for Jethro he hasn't really got that support base that Michele has. Oh he's got lots of friends and associates scattered around the place, but none that are particularly close or that are up to date with his relationships. They're really just business contacts, or people he WAS close friends with but has grown apart from.

Actually, come to think of it: the relationship he has with Monty is probably one of the closest that he's had with anyone since his childhood. It's certainly the closest he has with anyone at the current time.


@ElfenMagix wrote:To him, having another girl would be like raising a second Rachel.
As a hypothetical though: what if he'd not got Rachel first? It strikes me though (and I could be well wrong here too) that Fernando's relationships are in some ways partly driven by the fact that the girls are cyborgs.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 24 Apr 2010 - 13:04

@Alfisti wrote:Unfortunately for Jethro he hasn't really got that support base that Michele has. Oh he's got lots of friends and associates scattered around the place, but none that are particularly close or that are up to date with his relationships. They're really just business contacts, or people he WAS close friends with but has grown apart from.

Well you know me - I hate writing tragedy. So I kind of have to let Michele live through it. Smile

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by MP5 on Sat 24 Apr 2010 - 15:17

I had to think about this one.

Family is very important to Brian. Chances are, if he got someone other than Allison, he'd still try to raise him/her as a younger sibling, which he never had most of his life. Dear old mom said to him that everyone needs a family, and he applied that with Allison herself. He'll try to have a cyborg that he can adopt as immediate family simply on the basis that anyone else he can visit is too far away to do so.

Conditioning will play a dynamic role in this. If his cyborg is lightly-conditioned Gen 2 like Allison, it's easier for him to set emotional boundaries for them to follow.

If he had a more conditioned cyborg, like Henrietta, he would be in a difficult spot concerning how close he can be, and he will have difficulties in their relationship.

Finally, a heavily-conditioned cyborg, like a bomb squad girl or Beatrice would not respond to him as familiarly. So in this case, he would have to look to his cyborg as a trusted lieutenant/battle buddy, establishing a rapport and creating at the very least a loyal comrade out of his cyborg.

It would be extremely hard on Brian were he to lose Allison. Were she deliberately felled in the line of duty, or worse, assassinated, Brian would have the utmost extreme difficulty trying to cope with her loss. Revenge would satisfy him only temporarily; Allison's loss would leave a hole in his heart, and it would be hard for him to accept another cyborg because Allison would be the standard he would hold them up to. They might be perfect in their method, they might be even more skilled than Allison was, but unless this new cyborg could connect with him in the way Allison did--as family and nothing more, nothing less--Brian would be more prone to distancing himself, at least initially.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Sat 24 Apr 2010 - 17:11

This is one I've thought about a bit myself;

Elio did have another cyborg at one point. Being conditioned to about Rico levels, Marina was a whole lot easier to manage than her successor...but she lasted less than 2 weeks before her death in training. Elio found it difficult to make an emotional connection with her, in part because anything he asked her to do she acomplished exactly as he instructed. Marina was not robotic, but she was always positive, driven, and eager to please (I imagine she was a good deal like Kara). Alboreto did not learn much about managing a cyborg from her...it's Marisa's shortcomings that helped him bond with her.

As for the other cyborgs, Elio would certainly be most successful with one like Triela (who wouldn't?), and least successful with a needy girl like Henrietta.
Had he been assigned Kara they would be an efficient fratello, but Kara would be a totally different person, as so much of her personality is reflective of her handler.
With Monty it would be a battle of wills, with the two reaching a tense understanding...similar to the way Hillshire & Triela were in early episodes.
Allison is most like Marisa, a bit reckless & mischevious. She is older however, and if Elio was her handler he'd be a good deal less tolerant than he is with his younger girl.
Rachel is another one that reflects her handler. If Elio was responsible for her he might push her to be a bit more sociable.

As far as taking on another cyborg once Marisa dies, it's not going to happen. Assuming she lives her full 7 years Elio will be 62 by then...too old to commit to another girl.
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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 24 Apr 2010 - 21:01

@Alfisti wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:To him, having another girl would be like raising a second Rachel.
As a hypothetical though: what if he'd not got Rachel first? It strikes me though (and I could be well wrong here too) that Fernando's relationships are in some ways partly driven by the fact that the girls are cyborgs.
@Professor Voodoo wrote:Rachel is another one that reflects her handler. If Elio was responsible for her he might push her to be a bit more sociable
Fernando instills the idea that "no matter how much it taken away and replaced by mechanicals and cybernetics, the part that makes them human can not be taken away. Again Fernando was expecting to have a cyborg, since they told him he was getting one as an incentive to quit his agency and work only for the SWA. In truth, he was not going to quit for quitting would mean renouncing his American Citizenship for a 1/2 baked Italian one. So in his mind, he was going to have to teach and raise this new girl to work with him and accept him unconditionally (even though the conditioning drug would do this anyway) as he would of her. He had already done this with Rachel years before, and had eventually adopted her as a god parent. So in living and teaching and accepting another girl would be a second Rachel in his mind. But as the story goes, He ended up with his own.

Now Rachel tried to be sociable with the other cyborgs, but for the things they had done to her (drugged her, tasered her, do other mean things to her), she decided it would be better to be a loner and a social terror to the rest of the group. In short why be nice to those mean to you?

In Fernando's defense, the handlers of the SWA see him as an outsider and will never accept him outside of somebody who could do the job well. He's not one of them and that is how they both see it. But like Rachel, most handlers give him little respect outside of a necessary mission objective. Be Sociable? How about being acceptable and tolerant of others in Fernando's eyes. This is why Fernando's team is the way they are- accepting and tolerant of each other, and more (for)giving and loving of one another. If given another girl instead of Rachel, she would have underwent the same thing.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Alfisti on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 9:39

@Professor Voodoo wrote:As for the other cyborgs, Elio would certainly be most successful with one like Triela (who wouldn't?), and least successful with a needy girl like Henrietta.
Had he been assigned Kara they would be an efficient fratello, but Kara would be a totally different person, as so much of her personality is reflective of her handler.
With Monty it would be a battle of wills, with the two reaching a tense understanding...similar to the way Hillshire & Triela were in early episodes.
Allison is most like Marisa, a bit reckless & mischevious. She is older however, and if Elio was her handler he'd be a good deal less tolerant than he is with his younger girl.
Rachel is another one that reflects her handler. If Elio was responsible for her he might push her to be a bit more sociable.
Yeah, Monty has sort of got used to the idea that she should get access to/get away with things other cyborgs may not... particularly things that are directly job related. I'm sure she gets mighty annoyed every now and then when someone knocks her back on some request because it came from a cyborg and not a member of staff or handler. At which point I assume she either gets Jethro to do it or, depending on how miffed Monty's feeling and probably the more likely, Ferro get's a polite phonecall requesting she go and explain to the offending party that the cyborg would like her Geiger counter in the diplomatic bag now please.

As to the other: I'm sure Mari would drive Jethro up the wall. I've noted that Jethro doesn't really like kids, so dealing with a mischevious and energetic eleven year-old would pretty much be his idea of Hell. Allison's exuberant personality would probably have a similar effect. Kara, Jethro could probably work with though, like Voodoo said, she'd be a different person: "Toys are cool" isn't really a big part of his personality

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 10:42

@Alfisti wrote:
@Professor Voodoo wrote:As for the other cyborgs, Elio would certainly be most successful with one like Triela (who wouldn't?), and least successful with a needy girl like Henrietta.
Had he been assigned Kara they would be an efficient fratello, but Kara would be a totally different person, as so much of her personality is reflective of her handler.
With Monty it would be a battle of wills, with the two reaching a tense understanding...similar to the way Hillshire & Triela were in early episodes.
Allison is most like Marisa, a bit reckless & mischevious. She is older however, and if Elio was her handler he'd be a good deal less tolerant than he is with his younger girl.
Rachel is another one that reflects her handler. If Elio was responsible for her he might push her to be a bit more sociable.
Yeah, Monty has sort of got used to the idea that she should get access to/get away with things other cyborgs may not... particularly things that are directly job related. I'm sure she gets mighty annoyed every now and then when someone knocks her back on some request because it came from a cyborg and not a member of staff or handler. At which point I assume she either gets Jethro to do it or, depending on how miffed Monty's feeling and probably the more likely, Ferro get's a polite phonecall requesting she go and explain to the offending party that the cyborg would like her Geiger counter in the diplomatic bag now please.

As to the other: I'm sure Mari would drive Jethro up the wall. I've noted that Jethro doesn't really like kids, so dealing with a mischevious and energetic eleven year-old would pretty much be his idea of Hell. Allison's exuberant personality would probably have a similar effect. Kara, Jethro could probably work with though, like Voodoo said, she'd be a different person: "Toys are cool" isn't really a big part of his personality
This raises the question, how much of the conditioning drug would it take the girls to fixate to their new handlers?
Rachel being who she is to her handler requires a very low dose, just enough from having her cybernetics giving her problems. Francesca is also on her minimum level (as each cyborg has their minimum because of weight, size, etc), but only after Fernando broke her newly implanted programming. I'm sure that other handlers for one reason or another have their cyborgs at their minimum, but that is because many other factors including minimizing the maitenance of them. Some cyborgs dose themselves, as we seen in the anime and manga.

Taking Rachel- if given to another handler, would require a much larger dose to confirm that handler's demands. Francesca could go either way. If given Henrietta, Fernando would spoil her more that Jose does, but at the same time being a very hard teacher on her. Given Claes, Fernando and Cleas would be a much better team than Fernando/Rachel, but after a long teaching and training season to up her skills. In this Fernando is somewhat like Raballo in action and thinking, but in a much better body to allow him to do more that just stand at the side lines.

Taking the others, Kara would need to be reprogrammed heavily cause to him Kara is spoiled in excess- $5000 shopping sprees, 1/4 - 1/2 million dollar cars, clothing fresh off the runway shows, etc. Fernando is not rich like Michele (who he has a lot of respect for) but he can not afford to give like Michele does. So with him, Kara needs to understand that there is a limit to what Fernando can give her. Like Claes, Monty would do well with Fernando. He would have taught her everything he knows about security and infiltration and their missions would be just in doing. But Fernando has his own style of doing things which Monty would have to adopt too compared to Jethro. Also, one thing to consider is Fernando's souped up hard wired nervous system, which would give him an edge over the other handlers- in training their cyborgs, Fernando would do so by example. Despite their super speed and super strength, they do have their limits; Fernando would only push them as far as he can go which is almost up to their level.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Alfisti on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 11:19

Hmm, well to be honest when I originally started the thread I was more thinking if the handers had got a different girl form the start... and was using the others just as examples of personality types...

But it is an intersting quesiton.

For Monty, she takes the minimum dosage of conditioning, partly for maintinence reasons, partly to simplify logistics for the fratello's usually long and remote deployments and partly because Jethro wanted an independent thinker. It would however make flicking her to a different handler very difficult. Though Monty started out like any other cyborg, following orders because she was conditioned to be loyal to the SWA and her handler, she's now very definately Jethro's girl. She does things for him because she wants to and is loyal to and loves him for very human, genuine reasons rather than as a function of the conditioning process...

...That though means that, if anything... untoward... happen to Jethro she'd essentially require a full reprogramming and heavier conditioning to work with anyone else. Unforutnatley that would destroy one of her greatest assests: her ultra-sharp mind.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by MP5 on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 11:23

Well as we know, conditioning also plays a role in how the handlers cooperate with their cyborgs. For Jethro, it would be more convenient to handle Allison in a more conditioned state. Increase her level of conditioning, and she'd be more Jason Statham a la The Transporter than the person she is now. Yes, it takes away from her personality, but if it means she won't give Jethro as much of a hassle, then it works. For Jethro (or other handlers, for that matter) conditioning Allison would be easier than dealing with a cyborg who's a diehard petrolhead. This is of course, assuming she retains her specialized role.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 11:24

Jethro and Elio would probably need to have Kara wiped as hard as they did Claes when Raballo died. Smile

Though Kara thinks Monty is uber-stylish (if a bit "last century") so with some mild work, Kara would probably be quite happy walking around in YSL dresses and white go-go boots.

(Alas, I don't have any pictures of Chiaki Kudou in such an outfit. Which I must say sucks.)

And Elio probably wouldn't have too many problems programming Kara to just dress like a Catholic school girl - she is Japanese, after all...




I figure Michele keeps Kara on more or less a "standard" dose of conditioning. Rico is certainly animated and gregarious enough when she wishes to be, and Michele encourages Kara to be both, which Jean doesn't with Rico. So I figure girls like Beatrice (and NoŽl) are only "robots" because they're on significantly heavier doses and they're programmed to be "unflappable".


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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 11:47

@Alfisti wrote:Hmm, well to be honest when I originally started the thread I was more thinking if the handers had got a different girl form the start...
That's the way I understood the question as well.

As far as "re-bonding" girls to new handlers, it's fertile territory. Kisk of course has used Claes to great effect in his stories, and Robert may have more to write about Donatello, the cyborg who lost her handler in Milan. I was well into writing a stand-alone story that was entirely centered on that idea...a reluctant handler is paired with a girl who has lost her own handler. How much of a cyborg's behavior is governed by autonomic reaction, sub-conscious brainwashing, and genuine love were going to be explored. Of course, I'm back to square one on that tale due to my hard-drive issue.

@Kiskaloo wrote:And Elio probably wouldn't have too many problems programming Kara to just dress like a Catholic school girl - she is Japanese, after all...
Elio: Oh god man, you make it sound like it's a bloody fetish! The reason I buy Marisa so much plaid is that it doesn't show stains! Have you ever seen that girl's laundry?

If Elio was tasked with Kara (unlikely since Michele brought her into the SWA) she would have never known the life of indulgence she enjoys with Pagani, so a big piece of her personality would be a blank slate. Since any cyborg bonded to Elio would have also been conditioned to love the sea with equal zeal, I can easily see her developing into a sort of Marine Biologist under Alboreto's tutelage. She'd also be alot better at algebra.

The primary difficulty Elio would have to contend with would be Kara's physically affectionate nature. It's one thing to have a pre-adolescent cyborg wanting to crawl into a hotel bed with you...a 17 year old is a different matter entirely.

Kara: Honestly sir, I don't know how this happened. When I made these hotel reservations I specifically requested a room with two beds!

Elio: (grumbling) Yeah...I'll bet you did.
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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Alfisti on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 11:50

@MP5 wrote:Well as we know, conditioning also plays a role in how the handlers cooperate with their cyborgs. For Jethro, it would be more convenient to handle Allison in a more conditioned state. Increase her level of conditioning, and she'd be more Jason Statham a la The Transporter than the person she is now. Yes, it takes away from her personality, but if it means she won't give Jethro as much of a hassle, then it works. For Jethro (or other handlers, for that matter) conditioning Allison would be easier than dealing with a cyborg who's a diehard petrolhead. This is of course, assuming she retains her specialized role.
Well, I can't speak for the other handlers, but if Allison went to Jethro then I doubt she'd be keeping her "driver" role... if only because it doesn't really suit Jethro's mission profile... and unfortunately I doubt the Agency has enough "Transport" work outside of Italy to warrant an international team dedicated to that

I guess my take on how the conditioning effects the handler/cyborg relationship is that those on a lower dose find their loyalties more on their own back, and become loyal either to their handlers or the SWA through their own decisions. More heavily conditioned girls I see as swaying more as loyal toward the SWA (which would make sense as a good insurance policy against a hander going rougue) in general than generating affection for their handler specifically. As such, those on a lower conditioning level would be harder to "re-program" than those on a higher dosage. I guess it's a bit like setting the workspace on Photoshop up just the way you like it... then you install CS5 and loose all that. It's much harder to get back up to speed than if you'd just stuck with the default workspace.

@Kiskaloo wrote:Jethro and Elio would probably need to have Kara wiped as hard as they did Claes when Raballo died. Smile

Though
Kara thinks Monty is uber-stylish (if a bit "last century") so with
some mild work, Kara would probably be quite happy walking around in
YSL dresses and white go-go boots.
I think the toughest thing Kara would find in adjusting to Jethro would be his pace of work vs. Michele's... no more swanning off to Paris for the hell of it As much as she likes Kara (one of what, two cyborgs Monty genuinely likes?), Monty probably thinks she could stand to pull her finger out a little more often. Then again, Monty thinks the SWA in general could stand to pull its collective finger out more often

@Professor Voodoo wrote:Kara: Honestly sir, I don't know how this happened. When I made these hotel reservations I specifically requested a room with two beds!
This is something else about Kara that would freak Jethro out. Yes, he and Monty have shared a bed (or back of the car) on numerous occasions... but it's firmly a "this side is mine, that's yours" sort of arrangement. If Jethro's really unlucky he's going to wind up on the couch.


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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 11:51

Agreed on the statements above.

@Alfisti wrote:Hmm, well to be honest when I originally started the thread I was more thinking if the handers had got a different girl form the start... and was using the others just as examples of personality types...

But it is an intersting quesiton.

For Monty, she takes the minimum dosage of conditioning, partly for maintinence reasons, partly to simplify logistics for the fratello's usually long and remote deployments and partly because Jethro wanted an independent thinker. It would however make flicking her to a different handler very difficult. Though Monty started out like any other cyborg, following orders because she was conditioned to be loyal to the SWA and her handler, she's now very definately Jethro's girl. She does things for him because she wants to and is loyal to and loves him for very human, genuine reasons rather than as a function of the conditioning process...

...That though means that, if anything... untoward... happen to Jethro she'd essentially require a full reprogramming and heavier conditioning to work with anyone else. Unforutnatley that would destroy one of her greatest assests: her ultra-sharp mind.

My question is, in part, not changing yours- what if the girls would be given to another handler straight off the assembly line. Knowing how Rachel is, she would require a higher dose to interact with another handler. I'm assuming that it is the same for the other OC girls if given to Fernando because of their personalities.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Alfisti on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 11:57

@ElfenMagix wrote: My question is, in part, not changing yours- what if the girls would be given to another handler straight off the assembly line. Knowing how Rachel is, she would require a higher dose to interact with another handler. I'm assuming that it is the same for the other OC girls if given to Fernando because of their personalities.

Ah, right... I took it as "reconditioning".

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 12:07

@Alfisti wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote: My question is, in part, not changing yours- what if the girls would be given to another handler straight off the assembly line. Knowing how Rachel is, she would require a higher dose to interact with another handler. I'm assuming that it is the same for the other OC girls if given to Fernando because of their personalities.

Ah, right... I took it as "reconditioning".
ROTFL I can see where it happened.
With Francesca, something happened to make her fall in love with her savior "Fernando". if anyone else would have done the same to her when she was found, she would have fell in love with them for the very same reasons. Conditioning to her to follow their orders would be useless as it is with Fernando. In short, Francesca has a heavy dose of Florence Nightingale Syndrome for whom her handler is the target of affection (NOTE: The Wikipedia definition has it ass-backwards! Its the patient who falls in love and not the caregiver.). In this, Francesca requires a lighter dose of conditioning towards her handler than most.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 12:16

@Alfisti wrote:I guess my take on how the conditioning effects the handler/cyborg relationship is that those on a lower dose find their loyalties more on their own back, and become loyal either to their handlers or the SWA through their own decisions. More heavily conditioned girls I see as swaying more as loyal toward the SWA (which would make sense as a good insurance policy against a hander going rougue) in general than generating affection for their handler specifically. As such, those on a lower conditioning level would be harder to "re-program" than those on a higher dosage.

I'm inclined to believe that one of the original functions of the conditioning was to instill feelings of affection towards their handler in order to reinforce their obedience to their handler's instructions. However, they may not have planned for the girls to become so...besotted...with their handlers and when they did, problems occurred:


  • Henrietta and Claes were perfectly ready to kill each other's handlers to protect their own.
  • Elsa fell into a psychotic spiral because her handler was not besotted with her and committed murder-suicide because of it.
  • Pia willing to follow Ernesto from the Agency and engage her sister cyborgs in combat.


We know they modified the cyborg programming after the incident with Henrietta and Claes. And the Medical Staff have stated that Petrushka's feelings towards Alessandro are her own. And when she's hooked up to the "dream machine", Petrushka notes that one of her primary functions is "to obey the orders of my handler and the Social Welfare Agency". So that does support your idea, Alfisti, that the Agency either has always - or has subsequently added - loyalty to the Agency to help prevent things like Ernesto stealing his cyborg for Padania and Raballo trying to expose the Agency to the public.


In Kara's case, she and Michele knew each other for some time before she became a cyborg. They formed a close bond which was why Michele was chosen to be her handler - the Medical Staff felt that they would "gel" as a fratello quite easily because they were both familiar and comfortable with each other. And this did prove to be the case.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by rusty-spring on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 13:36

Conditioning was always one of the parts of GsG that I had trouble trying to figure out, so I sorta "hand-waved" it away with my characters. Meaning that Laine choose Clayland as her handler, knowing full well what she was and what her job was going to be.

Aside from credentials, the selection consisted of interviews and other forms of finding rapport with any future candidates (and any actual job details cleverly concealed). This lead to a unique situation with Clayland. It was less "You're good, let's get you a cyborg." to "We're the SWA, you've been recruited. Non-negotiable."

Clayland is a bit of a idealist, and likes to look at the world through rose colored glasses. Which is why they don't undertake many combat missions, and leave that to the rest of the teams such as the Gen 1 girls. They mostly to intelligence/recon style assignments, focusing on cover work. The side-effect being that Laine isn't the best shot or the most controlled in battle. She is probably in the bottom 1/3 when it comes to marksmanship.

Her real skill is in at CQB with a knife - but it's an awfully gory way to kill people and it scares the shit out of Clayland, who isn't used to seeing superhuman feats of strength like chopping off limbs with little more than a knife.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 13:39

So essentially Laine and Kara threw Pokeballs at their handlers, shouting "I choose you!" ROTFL

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by rusty-spring on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 13:53

@Kiskaloo wrote:So essentially Laine and Kara threw Pokeballs at their handlers, shouting "I choose you!" ROTFL
Pretty much.



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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by MP5 on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 0:38

@Professor Voodoo wrote:Since any cyborg bonded to Elio would have also been conditioned to love the sea with equal zeal, I can easily see her developing into a sort of Marine Biologist under Alboreto's tutelage.

Bringing me back to Allison... somehow, her inner petrolhead would pop out, just trading wheels for a hull on the water. Carbon Fiber and Fiberglass hull plus some kind of massive big-block Engine , maybe something like This... Allison wants a go-fast boat, in that kind of instance.

Allison is watching Miami Vice, specifically the episode featuring a boat race.

Allison: Elio, can we please get a go-fast boat? It'd be so useful on our marine missions!

Elio: Not on your life, Allison. Those things cost an entire house mortgage. Besides, I know you just want one so that you can cane it across the Med no matter how choppy the water gets.

Should they get one, however, Allison would probably bring it to her pals in Q-branch to create some kind of war boat:

Allison: Ok guys, pay attention. All I really want on this thing is additional firepower. I'm thinking dual minigun mounts forward and aft--no, actually make that twin .50 caliber MG's facing forward and a single minigun facing aft, and M240B's mounted port and starboard. I'm also thinking Hellfire and Hydra racks up front, and definitely load the fifty-cals with SLAP rounds... Maybe a passenger-operated GL?

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 1:02

If Michele was...re-tasked...with another OC cyborg (for whatever reasons), I could see a handful he could adapt to being a handler for.

Monty - A solid match because she'd pretty much set him straight on their relationship very early on. To wit - "You are 'El Colonello' and I am your Aide de Camp. Capiche? Good. Now call Ferro and tell her to release that damn Intel dossier I need to complete my mission briefing."

Allison - Arguably the best match of them all. They're both automotive engineers, if from different sides of the tracks (Michele being an F1 engineer) and they both love cars. Michele wouldn't let her touch his garage, but he could easily fund her tinkering and tuning of less exotic cars and might even turn it into a nice side business. Wink

Laine - Other than the battle between "cubic inches" and "cubic technology", they'd probably get along well. Her fashion sense is a bit...laisez-faire...for his tastes, but they could probably come to an agreement on what outfits for what occasions (biased in her favor, of course). And that she likes to drive is a plus, since Michele doesn't (at least in city traffic). Though she'd have little choice for if he has to trade in his Ferrari 599 for a Corvette ZR-1 and his Audi RS6 for a Cadillac CTS-V as "missions cars", the least she can do is drive the damn things. Razz

And then there is Marisa - No offense, but to quote Jeremy Clarkson - "That's not gone well". Wink

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 1:25

Allison & Elio together...hmmm...although they share common interests, primarily cars & racing, I see a good natured inter-generational battle defining their relationship. Marisa might be crazy and reckless, but she's young enough to still be impressionable, hence her many of her preferences (music, sports, gear etc.) mirror his. Allison is old enough to have developed her own interests.

Allison=Drifting.....Elio=Formula One
Allison=Miley Cyrus.....Elio=Eric Clapton
Allison=The Transporter.....Elio=Lawrence of Arabia

Despite Allison's 6 year age gap over Mari I still can't see Elio being comfortable with her walking around in a two-piece bikini. That would be another arena for conflict.

@MP5 wrote:... somehow, her inner petrolhead would pop out, just trading wheels for a hull on the water. Carbon Fiber and Fiberglass hull plus some kind of massive big-block Engine , maybe something like This
Elio: A General Motors engine? (snorts derisively) Once GM has the bollocks to enter Formula One I'll consider it. Until that unlikely day; find a suitable Ford powerplant.

Allison: Ok guys, pay attention. All I really want on this thing is additional firepower...
I think the perfect handler for Allison would be James Bond.

Final thought; if Elio was Allison's handler, Jay's life would be a whole lot more stressful.

@Kiskaloo wrote:And then there is Marisa - No offense, but to quote Jeremy Clarkson - "That's not gone well".
Elio: Does no handler out there have the courage to take on Marisa? Even just over the weekend? Please?
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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Alfisti on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 1:50

@Professor Voodoo wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:And then there is Marisa - No offense, but to quote Jeremy Clarkson - "That's not gone well".
Elio: Does no handler out there have the courage to take on Marisa? Even just over the weekend? Please?
Jethro and Monty together: No.

Jethro (now elaborating): Not so much courage mate as a distinct respect for my own sanity.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 2:04

@Alfisti wrote:
@Professor Voodoo wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:And then there is Marisa - No offense, but to quote Jeremy Clarkson - "That's not gone well".
Elio: Does no handler out there have the courage to take on Marisa? Even just over the weekend? Please?
Jethro and Monty together: No.

Yeah, I figured that. Don't blame the kid too much...the SWA gave her hyper senses & hyper strength, then gave her just a trickle of the drug that makes that all manageable. With even a Henrietta/Triela level of conditioning she'd be a lot better, but that's impossible for her mission tasking.

I am putting together an episode (hopefully #15) where another handler is responsible for Mari while Elio is called away on a mysterious "no cyborgs" mission. Who draws the unlucky short straw? It's gonna be Hillshire. He's smug enough to think he can handle anything...and Marisa wants to experience what makes Triela the top cyborg in the agency. They're both in for a rude awakening.


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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by MP5 on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 2:18

@Professor Voodoo wrote:
[interests]
Allison=Drifting.....Elio=Formula One
Allison=Miley Cyrus.....Elio=Eric Clapton
Allison=The Transporter.....Elio=Lawrence of Arabia

Well, Allison listens to a little bit of everything. She has a liking for certain classics (Hendrix's "Voodoo Child" and "Star-Spangled Banner" among them; it's why she has that Ferrari guitar and an amp with overdrive), so I think they'll have some connections.

As for Drifting, I think that was a Formula One term initially.

@Professor Voodoo wrote:
Despite Allison's 6 year age gap over Mari I still can't see Elio being comfortable with her walking around in a two-piece bikini. That would be another arena for conflict.

Yeah, I can't see him being too okay with that either. Maybe it's the generational gap.

@Professor Voodoo wrote:Elio:[/b] A General Motors engine? (snorts derisively) Once GM has the bollocks to enter Formula One I'll consider it. Until that unlikely day; find a suitable Ford powerplant.

Allison: But-- It's twincharged! *Sigh* Fine, if you don't want me getting a powerboat motivated by a modified GM Turbodiesel, then the least you can do is consider getting me a Mk. 5 Escort RS Cosworth. You told me yourself you liked Cossies, and at least it's not a GM, right?

@Professor Voodoo wrote:Final thought; if Elio was Allison's handler, Jay's life would be a whole lot more stressful.

Laughing Yeah, I can definitely picture that...

Elio is sitting across from Jay in the compound lobby. The elder man is staring at his cyborg's suitor, making Jay squirm under his gaze.

Elio: So... You're taking Allison on a nighttime cruise for your date, are you?

Jay: Y-yes, sir.

Elio: And you're driving? In a car she got for you as a gift? It's a very nice car, yes? A fully-loaded Mitsubishi Starion?

*Jay nods*

Elio: Allow me to tell you something now. Allison is, and always will be a better driver than you. Don't waste your time or hers trying to impress her with handbrake turns; they are not a secret key to getting her clothes to fall off, and you should not be trying to pursue such a goal anyway. If you try any stupid wheelman crap that will put my little girl in danger, you will put your own life in danger from me. While you are on your date, you are not to take her to any mountainside parking point with a romantic view. Especially avoid any place with "Make-out" in its name. I also expect her home in her dorm at ten. Any later, and you will be seeing my M3's headlights in your rearview mirror, along with the moonlight reflecting off of my gun. Trying to get back on time is no excuse for breaking traffic laws--do not place her in danger. Leave early, if you must. I will be calling Petra to confirm that she is home, safe, and otherwise unmolested. To be perfectly clear on that last part, that means no smudged makeup, no 'hickeys', no disturbed clothing, not even a single hair on her head astray. Just be aware that I'm not an old fart entirely, boy-- I have what it takes to make you disappear. If you do anything to upset her or make her cry, rest assured; Hell will be a fucking vacation after I'm through with you. Are we clear?

Jay, now sweating, nods furiously in fear.

Elio: Good. I'm glad we've come to an understanding, boy.

Allison finally arrives in the lobby, prepared for her date with Jay.

Allison: Sorry I took so long. Is everything all right?

Elio: Oh, absolutely. Jay here [he places Jay in a headlock] and I were just having a little friendly conversation, isn't that right, Jay?

Jay: Y-yeah! Fr-friendly conversation, ahahaha...

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Alfisti on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 2:36

@Professor Voodoo wrote:Yeah, I figured that. Don't blame the kid too much...the SWA gave her hyper senses & hyper strength, then gave her just a trickle of the drug that makes that all manageable. With even a Henrietta/Triela level of conditioning she'd be a lot better, but that's impossible for her mission tasking.

I am putting together an episode (hopefully #15) where another handler is responsible for Mari while Elio is called away on a mysterious "no cyborgs" mission. Who draws the unlucky short straw? It's gonna be Hillshire. He's smug enough to think he can handle anything...and Marisa wants to experience what makes Triela the top cyborg in the agency. They're both in for a rude awakening.
I don't think either blame Mari for how she is, they understand the conditioning issues. However that doesn't change the fact that neither would really be keen on looking after her for a weekend. Jethro might be able to handle it for 48 hours but I'm sure Monty would probably consider it some sort of game of "hot potato" to see how quickly she could foist Mari off to someone else.

Monty's an arse.

Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing how Hillshire deals with this...

@MP5 wrote:Bringing me back to Allison... somehow, her inner petrolhead would pop
out, just trading wheels for a hull on the water. Carbon Fiber and
Fiberglass hull plus some kind of massive big-block Engine , maybe
something like This... Allison wants a go-fast boat, in that kind of instance.

How about something V10 powered? I don't know what engine it is, but it's a V10, in a half-speedboat half ekranoplane hull... that's gotta count for something right?



Monty approved for escaping self-destructing-evil-villan-super-tanker lairs.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 2:56

@MP5 wrote: she has that Ferrari guitar and an amp with overdrive), so I think they'll have some connections.
The guitar he can respect...and enjoy a bit of nostalgic envy. Alboreto always wanted to learn the electric guitar when he was a kid, but his mother made him study a different instrument...
Spoiler:
As a kid, Elio was trained on the violin. Not even Chief Lorenzo knows that. Only Henrietta is aware, and she is sworn to absolute secrecy.

As for Drifting, I think that was a Formula One term initially.
Before the advent of aerodynamic downforce and super-sticky tires all racing depended on a driver's ability to 4-wheel drift the car. Legend has it Jim Clark once used the same set of tires 3 races in a row beacuse he "liked them." What I was refering to was the modern competitive sport of drifting.

Allison: the least you can do is consider getting me a Mk. 5 Escort RS Cosworth. You told me yourself you liked Cossies, and at least it's not a GM, right?
Actually that was me who owned a Sierra Cosworth, not my character. Elio had an Escort RS1800 back in the seventies. As far as Allison owning an Escort Cosworth...sure, she just has to let her handler borrow it now and then.

Allison: Whaaa...these tires were new just a few days ago! What happened!?
Elio: It's not just you youngsters that know how to slide a car.

The good news; Elio would charge the agency for every Pirelli destroyed by either he or Allison as "mission or training related"...something Brian probably doesn't let her get away with.

Elio is sitting across from Jay in the compound lobby. The elder man is staring at his cyborg's suitor, making Jay squirm under his gaze.
I laughed all the way through that. Knowing Allison is just as likely to be the instigator of shenanigans, I predict he'd have an equally intimidating pre-date chat with her. As karmic comeuppance though, Elio would also be forced to have the uncomfortable "facts of life" conversation with Allison, which he has thus far avoided with Marisa.

Going back to the "real" world...

Allison: God I'm so glad I have you for a handler, Brian.
Brian: You still have to go to Literature class.
Allison: %#*&@

Elio: Mari, I'm truly lucky to have you as my cyborg.
Marisa: Really? So you haven't found out what I did to the computer in your office yet?
Elio: %#*&@

@Alfisti wrote:Monty approved for escaping self-destructing-evil-villan-super-tanker lairs.
I see. Perhaps it's Monty who would do well with James Bond as her alternate-universe handler.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Alfisti on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 3:33

@Professor Voodoo wrote:
@Alfisti wrote:Monty approved for escaping self-destructing-evil-villan-super-tanker lairs.
I see. Perhaps it's Monty who would do well with James Bond as her alternate-universe handler.
Monty: Call me a "Bond Girl" and I'll be forced to throttle you...

@MP5 wrote:...it's why she has that Ferrari guitar and an amp with overdrive
Which I assume is the gear-head's version of the Spinal Tap one that goes up to "11".

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 9:01

@Alfisti wrote: Monty: Call me a "Bond Girl" and I'll be forced to throttle you...

Another cyborg who does not care for the famous Mr. Bond?

Marisa: Hey Monty, we finally have something in common!

Monty: Oh god no...this is a bad dream, somebody pinch me, wake me up, anything! (splashes cold water on her face)

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Alfisti on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 9:19

@Professor Voodoo wrote:
@Alfisti wrote: Monty: Call me a "Bond Girl" and I'll be forced to throttle you...

Another cyborg who does not care for the famous Mr. Bond?

Marisa: Hey Monty, we finally have something in common!

Monty: Oh god no...this is a bad dream, somebody pinch me, wake me up, anything! (splashes cold water on her face)
No, Monty doesn't mind Mr. Bond... she does afterall still happily use her vintage Walther PPK and wears a vintage Rolex "Bond" Submariner (model 6538... the original Dr. No one) when her Camaro won't be tough/water-resistant enough for a job. The dislike of the "Bond Girl" tag is the result of being the unfortunate butt of a few jokes thrown around by some of Jethro's old MI6 friends:



Monty obviously resents the notion that she's just some sort of disposeable hussey... Jethro on the other hand just wishes his mates would shut up and stop making his life difficult.


I was intending to throw that coloured version up as a teaser anyway... now's as good of a time as any. I've still got about half a chapter to colour. Speech bubbles were just slapped on and the script also obviously still needs finalisation and tweaking...


Last edited by Alfisti on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 10:48; edited 2 times in total

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 9:51

@Professor Voodoo wrote:
Elio: Does no handler out there have the courage to take on Marisa? Even just over the weekend? Please?

Kara: "Come on, Michele! She's full of life and energy. It could be really fun!"

Michele: "Having one cyborg like that is enough to give me a migraine from time to time, thank you."

Claes: "Quoted for truth."

Kara: "Seriously. We could go to Silverstone for the BTCC race and then head to London and ride the Eye and see the Tower."

Michele (at the thought of Marisa confined on a plane for two hours): sweat

Claes (at the thought of locking Marisa and Kara in the tower and walking away): On Cloud 9

Michele: "I'm not sure that's a good idea..."

Kara: "How hard can it be to babysit an 11-year old for two days? You two just lack vision. If you were a fratello by yourselves, you'd probably spend your day fishing by a lake or having a picnic in the mountains. Totally boring."

Michele and Claes (looking at each other): Yes Indeed


@Professor Voodoo wrote:I am putting together an episode (hopefully #15) where another handler is responsible for Mari while Elio is called away on a mysterious "no cyborgs" mission. Who draws the unlucky short straw? It's gonna be Hillshire. He's smug enough to think he can handle anything...and Marisa wants to experience what makes Triela the top cyborg in the agency. They're both in for a rude awakening.

I can sense that's going to be epic...

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by MP5 on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 16:46

@Kiskaloo wrote:
Allison - Arguably the best match of them all. They're both automotive engineers, if from different sides of the tracks (Michele being an F1 engineer) and they both love cars. Michele wouldn't let her touch his garage, but he could easily fund her tinkering and tuning of less exotic cars and might even turn it into a nice side business. Wink

I can see where this would head... Allison would be building cars that could worry his own Ferraris. Yeah, her Lancia, Toyota, and Mazda are all her darlings, but she's a creative girl

Allison steps back from her newest creation while Michele comes to join her.

Michele: Last time I saw this Supra, it was covered in junkyard grime. What's her specs now?

Allison: Well, this is 'Nicoletta.' Standard 2JZ-GTE, but she now has twin BorgWarner Variable-Geometry Turbines, HKS Hi-Power exhaust system, GReddy Forged Piston set, Fidanza aluminum Flywheel, A'PEXi Power Air Intake, BLITZ Type-CS intercooler kit, Nitrous Express N-Ter-cooler CO2 intercooler spray kit, Cusco Zero-1 coilovers, Brembo GT 4 piston Big Brake kit, Exedy Hyper Carbon Twin Clutch kit, Volk CE28N wheels, and Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R tires. about the only thing I couldn't find was a new aftermarket Transmission, but the Getrag 6-speed is plenty tough.

Michele: Nice color choice with the Rosso Corsa. Though, it doesn't really seem to fit.

Allison: Camouflage for when I'm caning it down the Autostrada. By the time the rozzers figure out that that this isn't a Ferrari, I'll be long gone. Nicoletta here churns out about 550bhp, and I think 480Nm of torque. Technically, I could keep up with you full-blast down the A1. Ä100 Euros says I can pass you.

Michele: You're insane.

Allison: Come on now, doesn't the 430's plugs need a little bit of 'cleaning'?

Michele: (smiling) I suppose you're right.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 17:34

@MP5 wrote:I can see where this would head... Allison would be building cars that could worry his own Ferraris.

His worry would be more what you'd do to his Ferraris in the pursuit of "making them better". He worked for the factory - he trusts they did very well with their charges.

And in the area of vehicular ass-whoopings, he need only call Ferrari's F1 Cliente division and have them drop off his 1990 Ferrari 641/2 Formula One car (as campaigned by Alain Prost) at Fiorano to teach his little girl what real performance is all about. Razz

And yes, 1990's Toyota Supras and MR2s could certainly pass for Ferraris.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by MP5 on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 18:27

Give Allison some credit, Kisk. Even she knows to to leave Ferraris well alone. They've been designing since well before she was born as a normal human.

Lamborghini, however, that's a different story... Especially since Jason Heffner stuffed a twin turbo kit in a Murcielago and Gallardo. Though I think even that would be too much car for her.

I think it would be a safe bet to say that anything from Japan is fair game with Allison's tuning abilities-- Nissan Skyline GT-R's, Nissan Z-cars (Most notably the 300ZX and 350Z), the 180 and 240SX, Honda S2000's, Civic Type R's, Accord Euro R's, and NSX's, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolutions, Galant VR-4's, Starions, and GTO's, Subaru Impreza WRX's and Legacies, Toyota Supras, Vitz's/Yarises, and AE86's--the list goes on, and that's just the Japanese automakers. GM's from Britain and Australia would also be candidates for her, same with Fords from those countries... As long as it's not a hypercar or a Ferrari, she'll find some way to tune it.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 20:19

@MP5 wrote:Give Allison some credit, Kisk. Even she knows to to leave Ferraris well alone. They've been designing since well before she was born as a normal human.

Lamborghini, however, that's a different story... Especially since Jason Heffner stuffed a twin turbo kit in a Murcielago and Gallardo. Though I think even that would be too much car for her.

Michele wouldn't touch a Lamborghini before the Murcielago and Gallardo - he needed that layer of German common sense to cover the madness. Though Allison would certainly benefit from being a cyborg when it came to drive a Diablo or Countach during a Track Day at Vallelunga. Yes Indeed

That being said, if Elio ever does drive up in that '68 Lamborghini Espada, Michele would have nothing but praise for his taste - and specific orders for Allison to not touch it with anything but a buffing cloth. Wink

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 22:02

I remember it being said in one of the volumes that depending on how hard their rewrite and conditioning, the cyborgs still retain much of their personality. I use this little diddy-fact when thinking of this thread.

True, Claes still retained her love for reading even after a second write, but how much would the OC Cyborgs remember in terms of their personalities?

Despite Francesca's second rewrite making her forgetful and as Kisk says "as sharp as a bowling ball" Good , she still retains her lot of her former abilities and personality-knowledge as a 1st gen killer cyborg, and before then as a little girl trying to out do boys in her school.

In that, how would your handlers take Francesca? (Under the premise of finding the lost cyborg and having her assigned to them as a second cyborg and all the other issues Fernando face happening to them.) Then again would your OC cyborgs take to having to share their handlers with her? Evil

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 22:40

I really wish I'd been able to better explore the jealousy that Kara undoubtedly would have felt having Claes join the fratello, but I tended to focus on Claes herself and kind of pushed Kara to the side. On the flip side, Claes made it perfectly clear - in both deed and word - that she had no romantic interest whatsoever in Michele. Kara would have been skeptical at first, but over time she would have seen with her own eyes that Claes was not any real threat for Michele's affections, though she ramped up her own game, just to be safe.

Of course, Michele and Claes did keep certain things between them "in the interests of supporting inter-cyborg harmony". Wink

As for Francessca, honestly Michele couldn't deal with her if she was naturally that ditzy. It would drive him crazy very quickly and he'd probably consider her unusable and ship her back to the Technology Department.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Alfisti on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 23:10

@ElfenMagix wrote:I remember it being said in one of the volumes that depending on how hard their rewrite and conditioning, the cyborgs still retain much of their personality. I use this little diddy-fact when thinking of this thread.

True, Claes still retained her love for reading even after a second write, but how much would the OC Cyborgs remember in terms of their personalities?

Despite Francesca's second rewrite making her forgetful and as Kisk says "as sharp as a bowling ball" Good , she still retains her lot of her former abilities and personality-knowledge as a 1st gen killer cyborg, and before then as a little girl trying to out do boys in her school.

In that, how would your handlers take Francesca? (Under the premise of finding the lost cyborg and having her assigned to them as a second cyborg and all the other issues Fernando face happening to them.) Then again would your OC cyborgs take to having to share their handlers with her? Evil
I guess in some ways I still see the conditioning process as a bit experimental, with results varying form girl to girl (just 'cause of basic things like variations in physiology, different reactions to the drug etc). I know Robert wrote Agapita as having a completely different personality after conditioning, but Claes retained her basic personality after a fairly major re-write. Monty I imagine would retain a lot of who she is, particularly the stubborn, serious, hard working side. That said, I think it doesn't matter how strong a personality is: condition a cyborg hard enough and it's going to go away or at least be repressed (a-la Bea, Kisk's Noel and the Voodoo's Bombsquad girls).

As to Fran... Jethro would not be happy taking on a second cyborg, any cyborg. Monty's pretty low maintinence as far as cyborgs are concerned (and I think he's resonably aware that he lucked out in that department). As Kisk said, if Fran's naturally that ditzy she'd drive Jethro up the wall. Besides, he'd need a bigger car

Monty... umm... Monty wouldn't take well to having to share her handler on a permanent basis. She wouldn't say as much, Monty's professional enough to keep things running, but there'd be a sub-surface seething resentment. I doubt she'd totally fly off the handle (Monty's very self controlled and doesn't like people seeing her loose it) but there'd always be a coldness there, even more so than she usually shows to the other cyborgs, maybe the odd snarky comment. Given that situation, Jethro's also professional enough to try and make it work, but the whole thing would wear on him greatly and, when it came right down to it he'd side with Monty.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 23:38

If played right, Francesca can be a very interesting character. Like Melody from Josie and the Pussycats...

But I see you points... ROTFL
Lets see what others have to say.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 27 Apr 2010 - 0:02

I was more a fan of Josie James - doubly so when they went into Outer Space.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Tue 27 Apr 2010 - 11:14

@Kiskaloo wrote:
Elio: Does no handler out there have the courage to take on Marisa? Even just over the weekend? Please?

Kara: "Come on, Michele! She's full of life and energy. It could be really fun!"
If anyone would actually want to work with Marisa, it would be Kara. I fear the younger cyborg would be the "bad influence" in that relationship.
The biggest difference between the two is that Kara is a material-girl, while Marisa is an experience-seeker. I'm not accusing Kara of being materially obsessed, but she does enjoy her indulgences...while Marisa wouldn't care if her clothes were bought at Wal-Mart. Mari has a list of achievements, and she wears that like a badge of honor.

A good analogy; Kara would eagerly bring Marisa to Harrods of London for a day of high-end shopping...Mari would be more interesting in rappelling off the roof.

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Professor Voodoo wrote:I am putting together an episode (hopefully #15) where another handler is responsible for Mari while Elio is called away on a mysterious "no cyborgs" mission. Who draws the unlucky short straw? It's gonna be Hillshire. He's smug enough to think he can handle anything...and Marisa wants to experience what makes Triela the top cyborg in the agency. They're both in for a rude awakening.

I can sense that's going to be epic...

Uh-ho...pressure. I will reveal that there will be a few (humorous) surprises about Elio's past. Also, the reason Alboreto can never set foot in the United States will be revealed.

@Kiskaloo wrote: if Elio ever does drive up in that '68 Lamborghini Espada, Michele would have nothing but praise for his taste - and specific orders for Allison to not touch it with anything but a buffing cloth. Wink
If the Espada ever does show up it will be as part of a "road trip" collaborative story like the one you're currently doing in the US.
@ElfenMagix wrote:In that, how would your handlers take Francesca?
Elio gets paid well enough to put up with any situation he's dealt...he's already got a very difficult cyborg after all. With Francesca he'd have to get used to being very clear and precise with his instructions...and occasionally give her a bit of mindless busy-work to keep her occupied.
The most difficult time for him would be leaving her on the boat while he & Mari go underwater for a mission. Even on deck there are dozens of ways to get injured or killed, and worrying about Francesca doing any of those things would be a distraction for Alboreto.

To me, the funniest thing about Francesca is the dynamic she has with Rachel. You'd assume she'd get pushed around by her younger, quicker thinking "sister" but Francesca holds her own admirably.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Alfisti on Tue 27 Apr 2010 - 11:46

@Professor Voodoo wrote:Mari has a list of achievements, and she wears that like a badge of honor.

A good analogy; Kara would eagerly bring Marisa to Harrods of London for a day of high-end shopping...Mari would be more interesting in rappelling off the roof.
As evidenced by the "lifetime things to do" book and the trophies she keeps (or at lest tries) picking up...

...which makes Mari the polar opposite of Monty (again) who doesn't really talk about her achievements. However she may be prone to leaving the odd mission report lying around where people could skim it, if it's a particularly good (and de-classified) one. Entirely by accident of course and only for a few minutes.

@Professor Voodoo wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:In that, how would your handlers take Francesca?
Elio gets paid well enough to put up with any situation he's dealt...he's already got a very difficult cyborg after all. With Francesca he'd have to get used to being very clear and precise with his instructions...and occasionally give her a bit of mindless busy-work to keep her occupied.

While Elio may be able to handle her well enough... how about Mari. Previous evidence suggests she wouldn't be too chuffed about having to share her handler with an attractive older woman.

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 27 Apr 2010 - 12:47

@Professor Voodoo wrote:If anyone would actually want to work with Marisa, it would be Kara. I fear the younger cyborg would be the "bad influence" in that relationship.

The biggest difference between the two is that Kara is a material-girl, while Marisa is an experience-seeker. I'm not accusing Kara of being materially obsessed, but she does enjoy her indulgences...while Marisa wouldn't care if her clothes were bought at Wal-Mart. Mari has a list of achievements, and she wears that like a badge of honor.

A good analogy; Kara would eagerly bring Marisa to Harrods of London for a day of high-end shopping...Mari would be more interesting in rappelling off the roof.

Kara does enjoy trying new things, but she does lack Marisa's level of fearlessness. Her interests in new things also tend to parallel Michele - he likes to race cars, so she enrolled in driving schools. He's a private pilot, so she earned her license, as well. He's a soccer fan, so she learned the game. She would not schedule her life experiences around Michele, but she feels it important to share his interests so she can share his experiences and time.

But if she had not already been an astronomy fan prior to her conversion, she definitely would have accepted any chance she could to stargaze with Henrietta and the other girls and pestered Michele for a telescope and other tools. On the other hand, she likely would not have sought out Monty on a regular basis to learn to fill out and file reports. Wink

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Re: What if they'd got a different cyborg?

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