I'd like to talk about Petrushka

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Professor Voodoo on Fri 28 May 2010 - 14:29

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@mistersaxon wrote:I expect most of the cyborgs would sink like stones!
They do float.
Apart from the one scene already refered to (ch 28; Rico sinks in Venice) I've seen no examples of a Type One canon cyborg even touching the water. I do tend to think a difficulty or complete inability to float is a trade-off of a Type 1's more robust build. Besides, for fiction purposes, it's just funnier if Rico can't swim, but keeps forgetting that fact.
Type Two Petrushka has no difficulty swimming in Chapter 64 when she pushes Alessandro overboard to avoid the mini-gun, but it's generally accepted that the Type 2 girls have lighter armor and less mass with respect to volume.

As for OC; Maverick devoted some time to this question in his ongoing Jamie-Michael story. As for my Marisa I noted (on the wiki) that her weight equals that of the amount of saltwater she displaces, making her neutrally buoyant in the ocean, and slightly negative (sinks) in fresh water. This does imply that she has weaker body armor than the others.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 28 May 2010 - 14:41

Henrietta and Rico do play in the beach in the second OAV. And promotional materials had them (and Triela) in bikinis next to a pool.

CFRP should be less dense than water so it might be enough to counteract their metal parts.

Within my OC universe, all the girls can at least float. Kara and Petra can swim, but I didn't investigate that with Claes or Angelica.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Robert Frazer on Fri 28 May 2010 - 15:28

Regarding A&P engaging Dante in Chapter 64 - it's doubly interesting because it highlights that really they're the most peaceful fratello of the bunch. While Petrushka has given a few characters pretty hefty wallops in close combat, I don't think that she's actually scored a single on-panel kill.

I think that it's a situation that's arisen from circumstance more than actual authorial intent, though. Alessandro is a poor fighter (when Rossanna first introduces him to Public Security it's noticed that he has indifferent shooting skills), but I don't believe him to be especially 'peaceable' - for instance, when Petrushka raked another vehicle with her Spectre during the car chase in the Rossanna escape sequence, she certainly would have inflicted some casualties had the car not been armoured. A&P haven't been shown to kill anyone yet simply because their positions in stories haven't involved pitched battles yet, not because it reflects their characters in any way.

As for the floating issue: when he's inspecting Petrushka's body in the recovery room before she wakes up, Alessandro notes that she's only slightly heavier than a girl of her build would be expected to be. It seems that she's built light enough to be buoyant.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Professor Voodoo on Fri 28 May 2010 - 16:42

@Kiskaloo wrote:Henrietta and Rico do play in the beach in the second OAV. And promotional materials had them (and Triela) in bikinis next to a pool.
Yes, but they only splashed around in the shallows, perhaps aware of their weakness. Jean & Giuse end the episode by joining them. With their handlers there to assist the girls could possibly venture into deeper water. My statement "even touching water" was too broad a term.

CFRP should be less dense than water so it might be enough to counteract their metal parts.
Hmmm, I hadn't considered CFRP armor. I had guessed that the cyborgs were protected by a broad ribcage with closed gaps, and a flexible (sub-cutaneous) kevlar blanket covering the abdomen. When Major Sales knees Triela in the gut she doesn't seem to be protected by any rigid barrier.

@Robert Frazer wrote:While Petrushka has given a few characters pretty hefty wallops in close combat, I don't think that she's actually scored a single on-panel kill.
Agreed. Petrushka seems to be utilized as more of a "thinking" cyborg, trained for investigative work rather than heavy combat (damn, that statement is really going to rile up the A&P haters).

The rooftop scene in chapter 38 seems to imply a kill or two...perhaps there are a few missing pages that go into greater depth as to what happened on the balcony once Petra leaps over to aid Alessandro.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 28 May 2010 - 20:14

@Professor Voodoo wrote:Hmmm, I hadn't considered CFRP armor. I had guessed that the cyborgs were protected by a broad ribcage with closed gaps, and a flexible (sub-cutaneous) kevlar blanket covering the abdomen. When Major Sales knees Triela in the gut she doesn't seem to be protected by any rigid barrier.

I imagine it's a mixture of CFRP plate around the chest and more flexible weave around the abdomen. The CFRP musculature itself could be the armoring. Triela takes 5.56 or 7.62 at point blank and while she knocks her on her ass and she feels it, she's still fully combat capable.

Kara took AP rounds in her belly in Under the Radar which is why they penetrated, but I imagine her armor level is not as robust.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 28 May 2010 - 22:03

OK... OCs aside... lets get a few things straight. P.V.D.; I'm surprised that you did not picked it up... So goes the count down...

@Professor Voodoo wrote:One thing we do get to see with Alessandro/Petrushka is the development of a fratello relationship from day one. The Series One girls early days as cyborgs are referred to, but we witness very little of that team-building played out.

Petra, despite being older than the other cyborg characters is still only 5 years senior to Henrietta & Rico. She's still a very innocent & naive character. Alessandro for his part comes into the story jaded and older than his years. Aside from Rossanna (who did not return his feelings) Rissi's never formed meaningful relationships with anyone...even his own parents. Now he's paired with a partner who craves a relationship like nothing else in her life, and it's beginning to effect him as well.
1) There was team building with the first gen girls early in the series- but that was very subtle and thought taking to figure it out.

2) Petra naive? Really... No, she's may have been erased just a tad more than My Francesca, and thus knows jack shit about the world but She was a dancer before she became a cyborg. As a dancer- they crave to be the center of attention. They do anything to get that leading role- including sleeping with whomever they have to to get it. Elizabetta was no virgin when she got cyborgized, and as Petra- she sees 'Sandro as the one she need to please to get what attention she wants.

@theprodigalson wrote:

Just that he is different. Like Robert said his relationship is less soldier and commander and more partner and I like that. I see in them more potential for a decent love story. Triela and Hillshire never really did it for me.
He's an infiltrator and a spy, with little morals or ethics as he would sleep and have sex with whomever he will to get the job done. This is worse than a being whore...

@mistersaxon wrote:Okay well now I'm caught up to speed with my reading and I wonder why 'Sandro suddenly cared to order Petra to kill people (Vol11 Ch64) - it seems the kind of face-on confrontation he normally avoids. Also, I think Petra is quite lucky she can float - I expect most of the cyborgs would sink like stones!
@Kiskaloo wrote:
@mistersaxon wrote:I expect most of the cyborgs would sink like stones!

They do float.

While Rico sank when she landed in the water after falling off the tower in Venice, I put that down to a mix of shock and not knowing how to swim. She's clearly treading water on her own once Jean returns her to the surface.
Cyborgs sink. Period.
As a lifeguard and water safety specialist for many years, you can tread water and have your hand extended underwater to support the other person with ease. Rico was not treading water, she was being supported by Jean.

@Professor Voodoo wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:
@mistersaxon wrote:I expect most of the cyborgs would sink like stones!
They do float.
Apart from the one scene already refered to (ch 28; Rico sinks in Venice) I've seen no examples of a Type One canon cyborg even touching the water. I do tend to think a difficulty or complete inability to float is a trade-off of a Type 1's more robust build. Besides, for fiction purposes, it's just funnier if Rico can't swim, but keeps forgetting that fact.
Type Two Petrushka has no difficulty swimming in Chapter 64 when she pushes Alessandro overboard to avoid the mini-gun, but it's generally accepted that the Type 2 girls have lighter armor and less mass with respect to volume.
Remember Rico's pre cyborg history- 11 years of her life in a hopital bed, never seeing anything past outside her room, and her parents constantly argueing... Did she had time to put on a bikini or 1 piece and walk over to the Y and have a dip in their pool?!! Damn It! She never learned how to swim, let alone tread water!!!

@Kiskaloo wrote:Within my OC universe, all the girls can at least float. Kara and Petra can swim, but I didn't investigate that with Claes or Angelica.

That goes against convention that at least with the First Gen Cyborgs- they sink.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Tommygunner70 on Sat 29 May 2010 - 0:58

I'm a little bit knowledgeable on the whole buoyancy deal.
So I have to ask Elfen, on what do you base your answer to the sink/float deal?

I mean, buoyancy is affected by a persons weight and how much water their body displaces. If the amount of water they displace is greater then their weight then they float. Vice versa they sink.

Throughout the series, there wasn't really anything that hinted towards a Cyborgs Weight. OK we may have seen glimpses of Angie's internal structure being Metal, but for all we know they might have used Titanium for it or reinforced aluminium. And by nature not every human can float on water to begin with. (Myself being a prime example.)

I do agree on your thought of Rico though. There is no way in hell that she could have ever learned how to swim. But I am pretty sure that a Cyborg would be able to learn how to swim when given the time.

For as far as OC's go: My own OC Thomas, who is an adult version of the First Generation Cyborgs, is able to swim. Heck he used to cliff dive when he was younger.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by rusty-spring on Sat 29 May 2010 - 3:57

In my mind they swim, but only because you can't do a proper pool/beach scene without at least the 2nd gens able to float.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by maverick375 on Sat 29 May 2010 - 8:42

He's an infiltrator and a spy, with little morals or ethics as he would
sleep and have sex with whomever he will to get the job done. This is
worse than a being whore...

I disagree. It's not a question of morals. Certainly having someone of lesser moral integrity could help with such an infiltration (assuming it required sex or killing), but finding the least moral person available is not a benefit, it's a hindrance.

Someone lacking in morals is not trustworthy-period. You cannot depend on their honor or conviction to remain loyal to any degree and is therefore a liability. By the same token, they must morally and psychologically flexible to be able to do the job as required.

So what you have is a necessity for someone who has a fundamental set of core beliefs that they are rock-solid on, and also have the conviction that their duty requires actions that they might otherwise dislike.

As another example of a Sandro -like character, try Eda from Black Lagoon. Consider what type of personality she has in light of her actions largely being dictated by the necessity of the job. Her loyalty is to the CIA, and she is willing to do a lot of things to complete her job. Does that make her a whore and killer? Or is she playing the part of a whore and killer?

Elf, I think you're wrong when it comes to the characters of Sandro and Petra. They're not cute and cuddly like the first-gens, okay, I'll give you that. But I also think you're projecting a bit too much in regards to their natures.

Saying that you know for a fact that Elizabeta landed her spot in the academy on the casting couch shows a marked disrespect for her and real dancers as well. Is it possible that some people get into prestigious schools on their abilities, particularly someone who has been dancing since a very young age?

Sandro is a bit tougher to defend, but I have to point out that his character is one that is skilled at drawing out reactions of others in order to read them. He did it in Lorenzo's office with Jean, and with Jose and others at different times.

The key to his real personality is in his eyes, something I know for a fact that artists work hard to get just right to convey emotion and personality. He doesn't have the eyes of a cold, ruthless satyriasist. Does that mean he would never touch Petra? No, of course not. Is he not a man with an enormous level of pressure leveled on him?

Again, it's my own interpretation, but I see a reluctance in his actions towards Petra at first, and it's only on the realization of her short life-span that he chooses to get closer, knowing that he could not waste time they don't have. He's a lonely person, he always has been, and he is invariably attracted to people similar to himself.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 29 May 2010 - 11:33

Mav, I do respect the views and opinions of all here. But no one is respecting 'mine'. Though I may dislike Petra, I totallly hate 'Sandro. I stated my reasons why, and no body is listening.

We are not comparing 'Sandro to anyone else. People (even characters) do things as they believe are right in doing, with mostly of 'the hell with everyone else."

But 'Sandro was taught early on to use sex as a tool, to use people as expendable pawns in a chess game. He does not care about their out comes as long as he wins and completes his missions.

This gives one a very low Ethics and Moral values on others. They do not care about others. All they care about is themselves. Rosanna did this- and in doing so got herself pregnant. Now she has to deal with the ramifications of keeping the child when she had options to abort it or give it up for adoption. She did a complete 180 degree turn around on those moral and ethics she once had for the job. 'Sandro has not.

As for the Dancers- professional ballet dancers- I am speaking from the words given to me by former students of mine who have attended and graduated Julliard and Avlin Alley. The things they have done to be on the #1 spot on the show, and not some secondary member on stage, or even a substitute waiting in the wings, most would not consider doing for their jobs or careers. Dancers are not as innocent as they appear, for they learn at a young age the things they must do when they become the best they can be but are in stiff competition with their fellow dancers who are also on the same level of performance as they are for the same spot. They will do what it takes to persuade a producer or director in deciding that they are the ones for the show's #1 position. Again, this is what my former students, who are now professional dancers have told me.

I need you to look up the facts alone- professional dancers are more likely to die from HIV/AIDS as a group when compared to racial groups (Afro-Americans - 20% AIDS related Deaths compared to the American HIV Infected population; Latin/Hispanic Americas - 15% AIDS related Deaths compared to the American HIV Infected population; Gay Individual - 30% AIDS related Deaths compared to the American HIV Infected population; yet Dancers have a higher rate compared to everyone? What is going on here?!!)

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 29 May 2010 - 11:35

@ElfenMagix wrote:Mav, I do respect the views and opinions of all here. But no one is respecting 'mine'. Though I may dislike Petra, I totallly hate 'Sandro. I stated my reasons why, and no body is listening.

I reserve the right to disagree with your opinion and in doing so you should not feel that I am therefore disrespecting your opinion.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Awinnell on Sat 29 May 2010 - 11:56

@ElfenMagix wrote:
People (even characters) do things as they believe are right in doing, with mostly of 'the hell with everyone else."

But 'Sandro was taught early on to use sex as a tool, to use people as expendable pawns in a chess game. He does not care about their out comes as long as he wins and completes his missions.


thats how government operatives must be,in fact Sandro's emotional detachment would be a benefit, where as Jean and co's revenge trip that led to the destruction of major assets (Beatrice etc) would in fact be a liability,a calm cold do whatever it takes attitude that does what ever is needed to done to complete a mission is a must,the people he uses to achieve this aren't nice, so if he seduces a few of them to get into a position to deal with them so what ?they aren't his friends, they are enemies of the state to be eliminated !

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 29 May 2010 - 12:20

@Awinnell wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:
People (even characters) do things as they believe are right in doing, with mostly of 'the hell with everyone else."

But 'Sandro was taught early on to use sex as a tool, to use people as expendable pawns in a chess game. He does not care about their out comes as long as he wins and completes his missions.


thats how government operatives must be,in fact Sandro's emotional detachment would be a benefit, where as Jean and co's revenge trip that led to the destruction of major assets (Beatrice etc) would in fact be a liability,a calm cold do whatever it takes attitude that does what ever is needed to done to complete a mission is a must,the people he uses to achieve this aren't nice, so if he seduces a few of them to get into a position to deal with them so what ?they aren't his friends, they are enemies of the state to be eliminated !
Finally somebody gets it!

But, what if he uses a daughter of a Padania member, who herself may not be in the least interested in Padania or their schemes and is therefore innocent of whatever crime they may commit? In using an innocent, and using her to win the mission, gives him lesser ethics and moral values then before. Worst- what if it was her friend, who like her, knows nothing about what her friend's family does nor care- just that they are enjoying the family's riches and took out the yacht for a ride? At what point does 'Sandro ends? When he does the granddaughter of the neighbor of the friend of friend of the cousin who went to grade school with the daughter of the Pandania member?

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Tommygunner70 on Sat 29 May 2010 - 12:44

I agree with you on your thoughts of Sandro.
Looking at Sandro's Ethics and moral values, there is a point where I say "Thats fucked up" but at the same time I'm leaning towards the side of "War is hell, deal with it." as the conflict between Italy and Padania is pretty much a war.

But then; the world isn't perfect as can be seen as how Padania will use any means necessary to take their objective. The SWA basicly does the same by using something that is as morally questionable as using children as soldiers. And true; Sex is just another road to pleasing your superiors by walking to them with the intel they wanted. Its just another tool in James bonds toolbox as far as I'm concerned.

I'm interested to see whether or not Sandro will show clear distinction between the affection he shows Petra and the affection he would show a potential source of intel.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Awinnell on Sat 29 May 2010 - 12:48

@ElfenMagix wrote:
@Awinnell wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:
People (even characters) do things as they believe are right in doing, with mostly of 'the hell with everyone else."

But 'Sandro was taught early on to use sex as a tool, to use people as expendable pawns in a chess game. He does not care about their out comes as long as he wins and completes his missions.


thats how government operatives must be,in fact Sandro's emotional detachment would be a benefit, where as Jean and co's revenge trip that led to the destruction of major assets (Beatrice etc) would in fact be a liability,a calm cold do whatever it takes attitude that does what ever is needed to done to complete a mission is a must,the people he uses to achieve this aren't nice, so if he seduces a few of them to get into a position to deal with them so what ?they aren't his friends, they are enemies of the state to be eliminated !
Finally somebody gets it!

But, what if he uses a daughter of a Padania member, who herself may not be in the least interested in Padania or their schemes and is therefore innocent of whatever crime they may commit? In using an innocent, and using her to win the mission, gives him lesser ethics and moral values then before. Worst- what if it was her friend, who like her, knows nothing about what her friend's family does nor care- just that they are enjoying the family's riches and took out the yacht for a ride? At what point does 'Sandro ends? When he does the granddaughter of the neighbor of the friend of friend of the cousin who went to grade school with the daughter of the Pandania member?

if thats what it takes to get the job done, sex has been used to gain access to the enemies secrets since time began



(Mata Hari ,who i feel got a raw deal !)



the only difference is that Sandro is a guy so he can more openly use sex on many women to get the job done,as for the daughter of or friend of a daughter of ,a Padania member,well as long as he's not killing them (like Rico with her no witnesses policy) and just sleeping with them then the women may actually enjoy it,and may end up none the wiser until her parents or friends parents are arrested or die in a gun battle with the Police

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 29 May 2010 - 14:00

@Awinnell wrote:[if thats what it takes to get the job done, sex has been used to gain access to the enemies secrets since time began



(Mata Hari ,who i feel got a raw deal !)

Rosanna was herself in the mold of Mata Hari, using her "natural charms" to induce men to spill their secrets while they also spilled their seed...

Before you condemn Sandro, consider that Rosanna played on his attraction (physical and emotional) to turn him into a male version of herself.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 29 May 2010 - 21:09

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Awinnell wrote:[if thats what it takes to get the job done, sex has been used to gain access to the enemies secrets since time began



(Mata Hari ,who i feel got a raw deal !)

Rosanna was herself in the mold of Mata Hari, using her "natural charms" to induce men to spill their secrets while they also spilled their seed...

Before you condemn Sandro, consider that Rosanna played on his attraction (physical and emotional) to turn him into a male version of herself.
Mata Hari! I remember her! HA! ROTFL Yes, she did get a raw deal in the end... I was wondering if and when she was going to be brought up...

Yes, Kisk- you are right on that Rosanna point. As they said about her, "She was the Machine." And machines have no morals or ethics about getting the job done, they just do it. But this particular machine turned human one day... Like Rosanna, if Sandro would redeem himself into something better than he is, and actually grow a pair (of morals and ethics), then he could become a likable character. But until then, he has a long road ahead of him...

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by theprodigalson on Sat 29 May 2010 - 23:16

Well, its probably time to agree to disagree. I haven't seen anyone disrespect your opinion here Elfen. But if you are getting offended we should wrap it up unless someone has something new to add? The unstoppable force has hit the immovable object.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 30 May 2010 - 3:51

@theprodigalson wrote:Well, its probably time to agree to disagree.
I agree. But keep in mind it will only be a temporary peace. Somewhere down the road, Petra will again rear her ugly head.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Tommygunner70 on Sun 30 May 2010 - 8:58

@Danjo3 wrote:I agree. But keep in mind it will only be a temporary peace. Somewhere down the road, Petra will again rear her ugly head.

And suddenly the voice of reason is starting to sound ever more biased.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Triela Hilshire on Sun 30 May 2010 - 9:26

@Danjo3 wrote:
@theprodigalson wrote:Well, its probably time to agree to disagree.
I agree. But keep in mind it will only be a temporary peace. Somewhere down the road, Petra will again rear her ugly head.

Uhh? Lock and load?

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Robert Frazer on Sun 30 May 2010 - 10:14

I'm going off on a bit of a tangent away from A&P, but to address this point which jumped out of me while I was reading over the thread:

To be honest, I find his character more interesting than Giuseppe's constant angst, Jean's anger (okay, we get it already)

Jean being a single-minded revenger is really much of the point of his character - he's killed literally dozens of his enemies so really he should be as happy as a pig in filth, but he's clearly not. As he only winds himself tighter and tighter into knots of bitterness and recrimination and stalks about the panel edges being a generally joyless fart and dog-in-the-manger making things miserable for everyone else, we see the ultimately dissatisfying nature of a life dominated by bite-back.

That may be the ultimate drive of his character, but I don't think that he's merely a cipher or a simple "x = y" allegory either - the recent flashback arc has been important in broadening him out in this regard. Jean's always been a hard man, but it began from a perception that he ought to be, rather than something that he actually was. It's something that he decided on, rather than his natural expression - if he's going to be a fighting soldier, well, this is the sort of people that fighting soldiers are, aren't they? The manga gives the example of his grandfather's funeral - Jean doesn't feel especially upset, so he thinks "oh, this must mean that I'm cold-hearted" - it's as though he's considering himself in the third person. If anything, this shows that he's particularly sensitive - he approaches himself from the perspective of what others see in him, not the echo-chamber of his own insularity.

Sophia's interest throws that on his head. Here is a third-party, external observer who doesn't see him as the stern, granite hard-bastard persona he's built up around himself (this is even after he wallops her in the face with an orange, let's not forget - never mind a rejection, most girls I know would treat that as assault and battery... but despite that Sophia persists in trying to romance him). It's a revelation - other people don't perceive him in the light of the imperturable rock after all; so, then, just how much wrong has he got about himself? Suddenly the tempest-wracked bastion standing defiant against the dusk is revealed to be a pillow fort in the corner, which Sophia takes apart. Jean's left feeling a little silly, but you know what? He can laugh at the joke.

Sophia is Jean's proof that he's a decent person after all.

Then she gets blown apart.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Professor Voodoo on Sun 30 May 2010 - 10:35

@Robert Frazer wrote:I'm going off on a bit of a tangent away from A&P, but to address this point which jumped out of me while I was reading over the thread:

Jean being a single-minded revenger is really much of the point of his character -

I almost left Jean out of that statement because I do admit that (to me at least) he's the most interesting of the original handlers. I've long held that his relationship with Raballo has more depth than it would seem on the surface. Raballo was a man he respected, and when Jean had to eliminate him it left another scar. His somewhat unexpected magnanimity toward Claes is indicative of this...she's the only thing left of Raballo, and he sees his old friend reflected in her.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 30 May 2010 - 12:58

Both Robert and VooDoo's points are valid. To me, because of the whole Croche Incident, it seems 2 things are evident. 1) The SWA was created for Jean for his revenge or visa versa, and 2)Jean is not happy until he gets that one person who was responsible for what happened. That person- Dante. The problem is, Jean may never know it was Dante even after he enacts his revenge.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 30 May 2010 - 15:03

If the SWA was created for Jean, I imagine he'd be running it. Wink

The body of evidence I am reading in the manga leads me to believe that Pieri Lorenzo saw in Jean a man who would serve him and the Agency he was tasked to create quite well which is why he sought him out.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Chris Hansen on Fri 30 Jul 2010 - 16:50

@ElfenMagix wrote:

When comparing 'love' with the other girls during the examination, Petra seemed to have had all the answers when she does not. This puts the other girls, especially Henrietta, to question what they have with their handlers.

I know I'm replying late to the party again, but I feel I have to respond to this. I agree that Petra doesn't have the answers, but I don't think anyone does either - and this is important since this is a big thing about the SWA's "conditioning;" it's an easy solution to all the problems they don't understand. I'd even argue it's a major theme of the work as a whole.

And I'll talk more about the actual Petra-Sandro stuff as I encounter it.

Also I move that every time Mata Hari is mentioned we also mention Read or Die.
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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by Danjo3 on Sat 31 Jul 2010 - 4:12

@maverick375 wrote:The key to his real personality is in his eyes, something I know for a fact that artists work hard to get just right to convey emotion and personality. He doesn't have the eyes of a cold, ruthless satyriasist.
I think thatís strictly a personal opinion. In other words, itís in the eye of the beholder.

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Re: I'd like to talk about Petrushka

Post by glow on Tue 17 Aug 2010 - 3:17

yeah same here, like most people I love Triela, but I also adore Petrushka

for me, its mostly because Im a dancer, and I recognize so many quality's in her that usually develop from dancing: self discipline, drive to achieve perfection ,attentiveness, the will to try above anything else, and the eagerness to follow orders.

and I dont think Alessandro is just playing with her, he seems intrigued, and sometimes even captivated with her behavior, and I dont think Alessandro is the type to be easily captivated.
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