The Past of a Sinner

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The Past of a Sinner

Post by Slohcin1820 on Sat 29 May 2010 - 3:22

Does anyone else get epicly pissed when they hear how Triela got brought into the mixture of cyborg killers?

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Re: The Past of a Sinner

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 29 May 2010 - 11:46

Explain why she is a sinner?

The options were simple, depending on the location od time:

A: When Hillshire and Rachelle heard about the children being kidnapped and trafficked for porn/snuff rings, were they to take action or walk away and take on a simpler case?

B: When found by Hillshire and Rachelle, save Triela's life or leave her to die?

C: When Triela was in the Amsterdam hospital in physical and mental trama, and Hillshire given to help her out in Italy- was he to walk away from this or do something to help her?

D: When turned into a cyborg, mind wiped and manipulated, being told of this, was Hillshire to walk away from her or try to do something about it?

Shit happens to good people. Its what they do that makes them a better person or not.

Now you explain to me how Triela is a sinner when both her mind and body is under the control of mental/emotional programming and drug influence? I would dare say that what a person does under the possession of evil does not make them sinners, just victims of the actions they are forced to take under the direction of somebody else.

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Re: The Past of a Sinner

Post by Slohcin1820 on Sat 29 May 2010 - 11:53

For one thing, she has more control over her actions then any of the other girls and thats why I like her so much, and for another everyone is a sinner. The fact that Im not christian doesnt change that and the fact that people who are christian doesnt change that either. But I was originally talking about where Hilshire found her...... in a trafficing den being raped and mutilated by those pig ass sons of bitches.

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Re: The Past of a Sinner

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 29 May 2010 - 12:03

Does how Triela ended up in the situation she was in the child porn/snuff ring anger me? No, for this is a fictional story that uses that plot to define her character history.

But if this were real life- yes it does, as it does for all the other nameless victims it happens too.

But for Triela- she says it herself, "I do not know where my feelings begins and conditioning ends." This says that her mental programming is absolute in controlling her. She tries to be more independent in operation with her handler, but she is not. The programming has done its job in controlling the individual as the agency wants them to be.

Furthermore, I am not here to be Bible (Torah or Q'rahn) thumping. The use of the word 'sinner' and the content from which it is used (as in the picture and statement) suggests that you might be- even if you did not meant to do so.

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Re: The Past of a Sinner

Post by KodokuRyuu on Mon 31 May 2010 - 1:10

@ElfenMagix wrote:Does how Triela ended up in the situation she was in the child porn/snuff ring anger me? No, for this is a fictional story that uses that plot to define her character history.

But if this were real life- yes it does, as it does for all the other nameless victims it happens too.
Quoted for truth.

I would not call Triela a sinner for being kidnapped, drugged, raped, and mutilated against her will. And I feel pretty confident that she would refuse and assassination order if she ever felt it was the wrong thing to do. So why do you point at her and call her a sinner like she's done something terrible in her past? If anyone stands out in the group as a sinner, it's Jean. He's hellbent for revenge and will sacrifice anything to obtain it.
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Re: The Past of a Sinner

Post by Godot on Mon 31 May 2010 - 2:00

Triela is in absolutely no way a sinner for her past, using any reasonable definition of the word. The word sin implies fault for a choice taken, with its root meaning 'failure' (i.e. failure to do the right thing), and Triela is absolutely not at fault for the horrible atrocities committed to her against her own will.
If you're trying to use the word in the sense that everyone is a sinner, you should not have titled this thread "The Past of a Sinner". The phrasing implies that her horrifying past is her sin, meaning that she is at fault. Don't be too surprised at the inevitably, justifiably angry responses.

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Re: The Past of a Sinner

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 31 May 2010 - 9:27

In reviewing KodokuRyuu and Godot's posts, it is sickening for anyone to think in these terms.

If a girl is raped- that does not make her some sexual deviant or pervert, nor was she looking to be raped nor would she be an active participant in its enjoyment.

The same applies to being a drug addict- by being forced to take such drugs, and to be part of one's own murder/mutilation. No one goes about to deliberately take these things for themselves. No One wakes up and say for the first time in their lives, "I'm going out and get myself so wasted and fucked up that I would possibly die from the attempt." No one says, "I'm going out to look for someone to do physical harm to me and possibly have me killed in the process- I would love that!"

A child is innocent until it learn negative social behavior and starts acting on that negative social behavior. When learning Right and Wrong, a child should be wise enough to learn the difference and do what is right from what it has learned. In doing deliberately wrong, it commits a sin.

But when one is forced to take actions, especially of getting itself hurt, that can not be a sin. Being forced into sex and drugs is not a sin. It is a sin being done to the person being forced into doing those things. Understand the difference. Mutilation and murder is just a step beyond the first two- a greater and immortal sin- done to the victim.

In order to have sin, you must have 2 things- the sinner, the one who does the sin; and the victim, the one the sin is done too. Triela was the victim and not the sinner.

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Re: The Past of a Sinner

Post by Robert Frazer on Mon 31 May 2010 - 12:00

Didn't anyone here know? In her past, Triela was known as the Tunisian Terror, a criminal mistress who had carved a bloody path of anguish, misery, suffering, strife, and general rapine and pillage across the Barbary Coast. Her brutal and savage campaign of anarchy and destruction had finally been demolished and a heroic band of selfless vigilantes, risking their lives and reputations to do what was right, had run the vile and reprehensible daemonette down to ground in Amsterdam. She had been grievously wounded in the savage battle, but refusing to bring themselves down to her base level, the heroes bound her wounds so that she could stand trial for her crimes.

Then some bratwurst-chomping cop in lederhosen blundered in and got entirely the wrong end of the stick.

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Re: The Past of a Sinner

Post by Triela on Mon 31 May 2010 - 12:21

Why would you even say that Triela was a sinner? I don't understand this logic. Like the others said, she couldn't help what happened to her.

Triela's my favorite character and I really don't like you saying such unwarranted negative things against her, especially when it was something she couldn't control.

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Re: The Past of a Sinner

Post by Godot on Mon 31 May 2010 - 16:14

@Elfen: Just to clarify, you, Kodoku, and I are all in perfect agreement then right?

@Triela wrote:Why would you even say that Triela was a sinner? I don't understand this logic. Like the others said, she couldn't help what happened to her.

Triela's my favorite character and I really don't like you saying such unwarranted negative things against her, especially when it was something she couldn't control.
She's not my favorite character, but I feel exactly the same way. Slochin's reasoning boils down to blaming the victim, and in the absolute worse way. It all makes absolutely no sense.

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Re: The Past of a Sinner

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 31 May 2010 - 16:21

"I believe what we have here is a failure to communicate."

I don't believe Slohcin1820 is singling out the character of Triela as a "sinner" nor do I see him implying what happened in Amsterdam is some form of punishment for being a "sinner".

I think his intent was to ask if the distaste he feels for what happened to Triela is shared by others in the forum. He just choose some, IMO, odd terms to do so.

Since we already have a thread on Triela in the "Canon Characters" forum and the initial and subsequent misunderstandings in this thread have shifted the discussion well off the original topic, I am going to close it down.

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Re: The Past of a Sinner

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 31 May 2010 - 20:40

@Godot wrote:@Elfen: Just to clarify, you, Kodoku, and I are all in perfect agreement then right?
Correct.

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