Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

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Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Chris Hansen on Tue 3 Aug 2010 - 13:26

Because based on what I've seen, the answer is no.


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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 3 Aug 2010 - 13:37

Too late, Rico. Too late.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 3 Aug 2010 - 14:07

I watched it...

...once.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by windfish55 on Tue 3 Aug 2010 - 15:37

It's not as good as the first series. I did enjoy it, however. My brother watched about half of an episode of Il Teatrino and gave up on it, but I stuck with it.
The problem with it, I think, is the art and character design. The animation is nowhere near as nice, and it has more of a generic bigeyed anime look. The girls are much cuter, almost creepily so, and I think they made Claes's butt bigger .
All in all though, I don't think Il Teatrino's quite as bad as everyone says, so you should watch it and make up your own mind.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by boomer_gonz on Tue 3 Aug 2010 - 16:04

It's worth weatching for a solid soundtrack, epic fight scenes, and Triela 'finally' uses her shotty. Other than that though...

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by ElfenMagix on Tue 3 Aug 2010 - 21:19

I saw it and I'm fine... the docs say that this tick should go away in about a year...

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Alfisti on Wed 4 Aug 2010 - 0:13

boomer_gonz wrote:It's worth weatching for a solid soundtrack, epic fight scenes, and Triela 'finally' uses her shotty. Other than that though...
Essentially: what Boomer said...

...I watched a fan-sub, then bought the DVD box-set in a sort of vauge hope that if GSG made some money, someone (preferably Madhouse) would pick it up for a third season. However those DVDs have still got the plastic wrapper on. I saw it once, I can say I did but have no particular urge to watch it again.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Totoum on Wed 4 Aug 2010 - 3:14

I say just skip the first episode

It's by far my least favorite,and turned off quite a few people.

One good reason to watch il teatrino is that you get more Beatrice than you got in the manga,it's Il teatrino that made me start liking her character and I wouldn't have been as touched by her faith if I had not seen il teatrino

There are quite a few "WTF" moments though
One of my biggest one was when I saw the new hair color of marco's ex girlfriend (Pink hair?In my GG?Really?!)



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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Godot on Wed 4 Aug 2010 - 4:27

Chris Hansen wrote:Because based on what I've seen, the answer is no.

Someone here just had to get me started again.

You would be right. I despise "Il Teatrino" with every fiber of my being. I consider GSG to be art, whileas "Il Teatrino" is like pissing all over the Mona Lisa.
The character drama is ruined by the BUTCHERED personalities.

Hope you liek moe.

The art style is vomit-inducingly bad along with its $4 animation budget.
They took out all the smaller things that made GSG a truly unique series such as the use of "The Delgados" music for the opening. Now it's more J-pop. Perfectly fitting for a series that takes place in Italy. >_>
Subtlety is also apparently an alien concept in that insult of a sequel.
(I'm going to go ahead and copypasta with some editing from some older post of mine since I'm pretty much repeating myself by now.)
The opening - from a truly beautiful and unique piece to what one description on some blog said to look the hallucinations of a tripping sex offender
The guns - I don't care about the guns at all and I was still horribly insulted by this bullshit.


Overall Tone - RUINED.
The only thing I won't go off about are the voices. Not because they don't suck (they do), but because I would watch it dubbed anyway.
"World-weary men involved in activities of questionable morality really shouldn't be sounding like teenagers" -some guy on the Megatokyo forums

Some here might credit "Il Teatrino" for allowing some of the best parts of the manga to be animated and released to a larger audience. I, on the other hand, would like to think we all have better uses for our time than watching as these brilliant parts are pissed all over.
I compare "Il Teatrino" to the extremely controversial sequel to "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya", which many people, including the director of the first season of Haruhi, thought to be a stab in the back for its eager fanbase. The main difference here is that Haruhi S2 was apparently meant as a trolling attempt/some pretentious experiment while "Il Teatrino" offends without as much effort or funding. In other words, DO NOT WATCH.

tl;dr: No.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Chris Hansen on Wed 4 Aug 2010 - 9:19

Godot wrote:

You would be right. I despise "Il Teatrino" with every fiber of my being. I consider GSG to be art, whileas "Il Teatrino" is like pissing all over the Mona Lisa.

Oh I think I can come up with an even better analogy....




I compare "Il Teatrino" to the extremely controversial sequel to "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya", which many people, including the director of the first season of Haruhi, thought to be a stab in the back for its eager fanbase.


Ohhh, don't get me started on that

Like how "Il Teatrino" takes all the Triela + Pino chapters and...as you said...the second season of TMoHS takes the most important part of the whole book series, the part that explains how all of this even happens ("Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody" aka "The Apprehension of Mikuru Asahina") and, well....




...yeah....

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Robert Frazer on Wed 4 Aug 2010 - 9:50

I like Il Teatrino. It's one of those shows that people love to hate, unfortunately - the response becomes overwhelming to the point that it takes a life of its own.

One of things that people got in a tizzy about when the show was originally broadcasting is the change in the Japanese cast. Now, this meant diddly-squat to me because I don't follow seiyuu as personalities in the first place - it's all just foreign jabber and gabble to my ears - so it made no difference to me with the sub version. The dub of the series does reprise almost entirely the original English cast, and the sense of continuity actually does improve the show considerably.

It's also a case of apples and oranges. GSG is great for its character focus, but as wonderful as it is it does put some people off for being slow and rambling - Il Teatrino, dealing as it does with the specific Pinnochio arc, is a lot more focused, pacy and plotty, which some people do prefer.

The production is undeniably cheap, you can't get around that, but while action scenes have a surfeit of blur and motion lines I find that the background art can be very strong. Il Teatrino suffers from an undeservedly bad press.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by pianoman on Wed 4 Aug 2010 - 12:10

Hope you liek moe.

You know, some of us actually do. Shocker.

I think far too many of Il Teatrino's strengths get downplayed. Many of the alterations/additions it made were quite beautiful; the music Pino learned from Christiano, Claes singing Scarborough Fair, the pendant Triela takes and returns at the end. It was largely done very tastefully.

Windfish is right - give it a few episodes, see if it's agreeable. It's a story that's worth any kind of adaptation, no matter how bad.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 4 Aug 2010 - 13:54

-IL TEATRINO- did at least have Yu Aida writing the screenplays, so the episodes track much closer to the manga (and the series, as a whole) then the first season did.

And yes, I love Risa Mizuno's rendition of Scarborough Fair - whenever I write Claes in my fiction I listen to that song and in one story I had her actually hum it while working in the garden.

But the characters designs were just crap. If the series had launched with this animation style and character designs, I'd have disliked them. But to compare it to the first season, which admittedly had a huge budget, just showed how far the show had fallen in terms of visual quality.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Danjo3 on Thu 5 Aug 2010 - 1:48

I didnít at all care for S2 in the beginning, but over time I have kind of warmed to it.
Godot wrote:The character drama is ruined by the BUTCHERED personalities.
This is easily my biggest problem with it.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Triela on Thu 5 Aug 2010 - 2:14

Danjo3 wrote:I didnít at all care for S2 in the beginning, but over time I have kind of warmed to it.
Godot wrote:The character drama is ruined by the BUTCHERED personalities.
This is easily my biggest problem with it.

That was my biggest thing too. That's why I watch the dub. ^_~ They handled what they were given with the Japanese voices perfectly! Funimation really made it better!

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Totoum on Thu 5 Aug 2010 - 23:24

Godot wrote:They took out all the smaller things that made GSG a truly unique series such as the use of "The Delgados" music for the opening. Now it's more J-pop. Perfectly fitting for a series that takes place in Italy. >_>

Though to be fair even if it's closer geographically,I don't see how scotland has much to do with italy either.Don't get me wrong though I absolutely love the opening.

Your comment reminded me that on the same album as the opening of il teatrino,Kokia covered "Ave Maria" and she also wrote a song with italian lyrics.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Godot on Fri 6 Aug 2010 - 0:47

Chris Hansen wrote:
Godot wrote:

You would be right. I despise "Il Teatrino" with every fiber of my being. I consider GSG to be art, whileas "Il Teatrino" is like pissing all over the Mona Lisa.

Oh I think I can come up with an even better analogy....




I compare "Il Teatrino" to the extremely controversial sequel to "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya", which many people, including the director of the first season of Haruhi, thought to be a stab in the back for its eager fanbase.


Ohhh, don't get me started on that

Like how "Il Teatrino" takes all the Triela + Pino chapters and...as you said...the second season of TMoHS takes the most important part of the whole book series, the part that explains how all of this even happens ("Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody" aka "The Apprehension of Mikuru Asahina") and, well....




...yeah....

Is that from The Boondocks? I must have missed that episode. What's the meaning behind these?

Either way you seem to understand my sentiment towards Il Teatrino with my Haruhi reference. The same way many Haruhi fans rightfully reacted- rage, disgust, disappointment- I feel the exact same way. From what I've read it seems like the whole reason for that Endless Eight bit was based of incredibly retarded reasons/non-reasons. Either that or they're A) actually trolling their fan base or B) attempting some pretentious experiment like I mentioned earlier. And either way it's obnoxious.

pianoman wrote:Hope you liek moe.

You know, some of us actually do. Shocker.

I hate it in a series as dead serious as GSG. I can't stop anyone from liking it, as much as I'd like to, but this is exactly 'not what I signed up for'. And for a short sequel (13 episodes) to an equally short series, I expect some consistency, budget be damned. If the first season was at all like this, I would have never watched it or become a fan of GSG at all for that matter. Being an anime I find myself well within my rights to expect some good art and animation.

Kiskaloo wrote:-IL TEATRINO- did at least have Yu Aida writing the screenplays, so the episodes track much closer to the manga (and the series, as a whole) then the first season did.
Kiskaloo wrote:But the characters designs were just crap. If the series had launched with this animation style and character designs, I'd have disliked them. But to compare it to the first season, which admittedly had a huge budget,
just showed how far the show had fallen in terms of visual quality.

To continue from above, if they couldn't do that much, then they shouldn't have done it at all. For all us fans of the original way the story was told in the manga, we should A) not settle for anything less than what we know can be done with this series and B) prefer that our brilliant story arc was never forever doomed to a terrible adaptation.
Know now that if they ever do make a third season with Madhouse rightfully in charge, there's a chance that they won't give the Pino arc the adaptation it deserves with Il Teatrino sitting, rotting and festering, right on top of it.

All we fans can hope for is a remake, and with Aida apparently at the wheel for the making of Il Teatrino,
I suspect that he was, for some incomprehensible reason, satisfied with that. Someone on some site once noted that a mangaka shouldn't be trusted with an anime director's job. I'm not sure of his level of influence in the second season, but something tells me it was far too much.

I don't mind at all how far an anime diverges from its original manga so long as the new product is of equal or better caliber. Hell, GSG took material only from V1 and created the rest but it stands tall as my favorite adaptation of GSG by far. I think of Full Metal Alchemist when I think of this topic and while the first season did apparently diverge a lot from its manga counterpart, I preferred it much more to its remake "Brotherhood", which I have heard follows the manga much more closely, for reasons completely irrelevant to this discussion.

GSG (S1) was what made me interested in anime as art and has started my new fascination with watching artsy series and being a prick about everything artsy . To see that this is how they followed it up makes me feel like a knife was planted in my back. I don't think I'm expecting too much either considering I know very well what this series is capable of.

Totoum wrote:
Godot wrote:They took out all the smaller things that made GSG a truly unique series such as the use of "The Delgados" music for the opening. Now it's more J-pop. Perfectly fitting for a series that takes place in Italy. >_>

Though to be fair even if it's closer geographically,I don't see how scotland has much to do with italy either.Don't get me wrong though I absolutely love the opening.

Your comment reminded me that on the same album as the opening of il teatrino,Kokia covered "Ave Maria" and she also wrote a song with italian lyrics.

English is a much closer language to Italian than Japanese is, which is as far removed as possible as far as languages go. I believe that English and Italian both have their roots in Latin and have a fairly similar alphabet system. Japanese works on an entirely different base. It's not that great a point and has more to do with dubbing than this, but a song featuring actual English sung by a Scotish Indie rock band in anime is a wonderfully unique move. I'm going to ahead ahead and guess 90% of anime features J-pop for its opening theme. "The Light Before We Land" is a one-of-a-kind opening anime theme for a gem of a series.

"Ave Maria" would be a great addition but I don't think it is in the actual anime.



To think that my room wouldn't be littered with GSG merchandise...


Last edited by Godot on Fri 6 Aug 2010 - 3:36; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Spelling, formatting, some added clarification)

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Danjo3 on Fri 6 Aug 2010 - 2:53

Triela wrote:That's why I watch the dub. ^_~ They handled what they were given with the Japanese voices perfectly! Funimation really made it better!
100% Agree. The English dub is far superior to the Japanese abortion, I mean version.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by maverick375 on Fri 6 Aug 2010 - 12:16

It's not that great a point and has more to do with dubbing than this, but a song featuring actual
English sung by a Scotish Indie rock band in anime is a wonderfully
unique move. I'm going to ahead ahead and guess 90% of anime features
J-pop for its opening theme. "The Light Before We Land" is a
one-of-a-kind opening anime theme for a gem of a series.

Ghost in the Shell: SAC used 'Inner Universe' by Origa, and was probably more interesting and memorable because of the mostly-Russian lyrics.

Many people don't even realize the depth that BGM brings to video, and how critical that music can be to the appropriate feel of a scene or the entirety of the work. Some directors have even elected to eliminate music from a movie in order to make their piece stick out.

My first realization of this came when I picked up the Jurassic Park soundtrack for a project I was working on in High School. Some time later I watched the movie and parts of the music that I had never heard before seemed to pop out and make the scene more alive.

The music of GSG season 1 was near perfect. The scenes were right, the tone was right. When done correctly, BGM is largely forgotten on the conscious level and becomes an emotional trigger to some end, which is why the viewer becomes involved in the work.
In season 2, the music seemed largely canned and, if not wrongly placed, then at least wrong in tone. The fact that it stuck out means that it was not quite right.

In fairness, there is always a 'need' to one-up the previous work, and in the process mistakes can be made. George Lucas is a perfect example with 'Wars Episodes 1. If someone had the guts to tell him when something was wrong or too much, it wouldn't have been the travesty that it ended up being. In the end, though, it comes down to the artist, and that's who we need to blame, be it the director, musician, etc.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Chris Hansen on Fri 6 Aug 2010 - 17:09

Godot wrote:
Chris Hansen wrote:
Godot wrote:

You would be right. I despise "Il Teatrino" with every fiber of my being. I consider GSG to be art, whileas "Il Teatrino" is like pissing all over the Mona Lisa.

Oh I think I can come up with an even better analogy....




I compare "Il Teatrino" to the extremely controversial sequel to "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya", which many people, including the director of the first season of Haruhi, thought to be a stab in the back for its eager fanbase.


Ohhh, don't get me started on that

Like how "Il Teatrino" takes all the Triela + Pino chapters and...as you said...the second season of TMoHS takes the most important part of the whole book series, the part that explains how all of this even happens ("Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody" aka "The Apprehension of Mikuru Asahina") and, well....



Is that from The Boondocks? I must have missed that episode. What's the meaning behind these?

It's from the episode "The Trial of R. Kelly" where the accused, R&B singer R. Kelly, is on trial for, uhhh...taking a piss on a 13-year-old girl.

So yeah...I was implying that if you hate Il Teatrino, you might see it as, uhh...R. Kelly taking a piss on Triela. Just like how Haruhi S2 was like R. Kelly taking a piss on Mikuru.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Triela Hilshire on Fri 6 Aug 2010 - 18:08

If anyone took a tinkle on Triela I'm sure they would be nothing but a pair of shoes with a bloody stain and flesh bits here and there.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by windfish55 on Fri 6 Aug 2010 - 18:34

You think she'd leave that much?

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by funkmachine on Fri 6 Aug 2010 - 19:03

in my head Il Teatrino takes place in a time when the docs tryed to help the girls to be happey, with a LOT of drugs , it worked look at Rico shes happyer/off her face in than one shot than all of first series.

well the Fridge Brilliance makes me feel better.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Triela Hilshire on Fri 6 Aug 2010 - 20:19

windfish55 wrote:You think she'd leave that much?

I think she'd want to keep at least some form of his DNA so that she could kill him hundreds of times over.




If not thousands...

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by austinhowell on Mon 9 Aug 2010 - 23:48

i'm going to give it to u straight hansen (to feed ur gsg addiction yes, i watched and i rewatch it every now and then, but just be prepared to be very pissed off)

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Comments : CURRENTLY READING VOLUME 7, I HOPE THEY MAKE A THIRD SEASON, METEOR SHOWERS ARE MY FAVORITE THING NEXT TO GSG, SOCCER, COD, DISTURBED, AND RIDING HORSES

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by tremec6speed on Sat 14 Aug 2010 - 3:11

This is an interesting subject. Yes the nuances are gone and the somewhat more basic art is disappointing but after all, if Mr. Aida said that he was more involved in this project then something in this series must be better, yes? That said I.....wait, what?
".... Claes's butt is bigger?!" Forget it! TEATRINO all the way!!
lolz

*Lauro approuved*
Me: 'Did you hear what Windfish55 said, Mister Lauro?
That's cool aint it, Mister lauro, huh, huh?'
Lauro: "shuddap."


Last edited by tremec6speed on Sat 14 Aug 2010 - 4:19; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : corrections)
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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by windfish55 on Sun 15 Aug 2010 - 15:06

Even white boys gotta shout!

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Robert Frazer on Sun 15 Aug 2010 - 17:25

On the topic of Il Teatrino, ANN recently posted a review of the Blu-Ray edition:

[LINK]

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Chris Hansen on Mon 16 Aug 2010 - 0:09

Yeah, and I noticed that Answerman question for that week was about Gunslinger Girl too. Seems...strangely timed.

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Godot on Mon 16 Aug 2010 - 4:21

Hurray for my 100th post! I'll write this post the same way I wrote most of my others: full of hate and bile.

Speaking of reviews, my favorite anime review site got around to posting their review of Il Teatrino.
http://www.nihonreview.com/anime/gunslinger-girl-il-teatrino/
I disagree with a couple of points here and there, but they got the gist of it: Il Teatrino is terrible and Artland sucks.

Back to ANN, here are some pages from the Shelf Life section of ANN that I thoroughly enjoyed, lavishing praise on GSG (S1) that it so richly deserves . I agree profusely with the writer here; here is someone that really gets it and loved GSG for many of the same reasons I did.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/shelf-life/2005-06-22
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/shelf-life/2005-11-28

If you couldn't tell, one of the reasons I hate Il Teatrino as much as I do is because I love the first season so much, if that makes sense. What I loved and cherished in S1 was replaced by a hollow, rotting shell of its former self in Il Teatrino, a shell whose very existence stands towering and reeking as a mockery of life and art. It isn't entirely because I am a generally hate-filled human being (which I am).

Chris Hansen wrote:It's from the episode "The Trial of R. Kelly" where the accused, R&B singer R. Kelly, is on trial for, uhhh...taking a piss on a 13-year-old girl.

So yeah...I was implying that if you hate Il Teatrino, you might see it as, uhh...R. Kelly taking a piss on Triela. Just like how Haruhi S2 was like R. Kellytaking a piss on Mikuru.

That wouldn't be too far off.
Saw the season finale of The Boondocks today. Did you catch it?


So this post wasn't as hate-filled as I thought it would be.

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Godot

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Re: Can I just ask a simple, basic question?

Post by Danjo3 on Mon 16 Aug 2010 - 16:38

Godot wrote:Hurray for my 100th post!
Congratulations! w00t!

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