By all accounts, Triela should have died...

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By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Sintendo on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 2:13

One of the most important rules I learned when training for CPR was that you DON'T do it when the person/vistim has had his or her limbs severed. It's actually more harmful if you do so, since half of CPR involves the rescuer manually pumping blood though the victim's body by applying pressure to the heart, etc...
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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 2:32

That injury to Triela's right leg may have already healed before Rachele administered treatment. I can envision her torturers having sadistically cauterized it with a red-hot iron many days earlier.

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Triela on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 6:56

@Nachtsider wrote:That injury to Triela's right leg may have already healed before Rachele administered treatment. I can envision her torturers having sadistically cauterized it with a red-hot iron many days earlier.

I imagine they did that too. They wanted to tourchr thier victims for a long time before they killed them. If they didn't 'heal' hr leg then she would have died of blood loss, but you can see in the manga Triela's not bleeding.

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by LoC978 on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 9:54

I'm with Nachtsider on this one. The only way Triela could've avoided bleeding out through her severed femoral artery (probably before Victor and Rachelle even found her) is if the bastards either cauterized the stump or tied a tourniquet around her thigh... probably both, actually.
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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Sintendo on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 10:21

Jesus christ.... I would have never thought of that...
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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by LoC978 on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 10:25

*shrug*
You've never been through combat lifesaver training. Saving a life can be very painful for the one being saved.

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Guest on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 10:26

I'm with you guys on the treatment of Triela's leg and lets not forget that Rachel was a doctor so she would have know to treat any major open wounds first before using cpr.

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by LoC978 on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 10:31

...She was a mortician with a bullet in her gut. She probably did check Triela's leg for bleeding, though. It's not likely she would've had the means to cauterize the stump, and I didn't see her tie a tourniquet in the manga... so I'm guessing it was done before they got there.

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Guest on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 13:33

i thought she was a pathologist.. oh well

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Sintendo on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 13:54

@LoC978 wrote:*shrug*
You've never been through combat lifesaver training. Saving a life can be very painful for the one being saved.

No I haven't. Just regular ol' CPR...

Some on my family served in the military, and 2 of them are active duty Navy Corps Men, so I should ask them for the... gory details... on how they would (have to) approach this situation.
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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Triela on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 15:24

Well aren't we all glad that she survived? Very Happy I love Triela! She's awesome! To me I think her past was the hardest of them all and to come out from all of that: a strong, awesome, intelligent girl... It makes me really happy! ^_^

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 15:32

This old life guard would have checked for present bleeding and stopped it before doing CPR on Triela.

The issue I see is that the manga is on B/W, to so see if that injury was fresh or had healed over days would have been hard to tell. Volume 4, Chapter 22, pages 160 - 170 only shows that her fingers were severed on one hand, and a rope tied to that wrist. You would have to piece it together, but Triela looks like she is laying in a pool of her own blood. The picture where Rachel finally dies on Triela shows some bood at the panty-croutch area- probably from rape or something other digusting event, but her legs seems to be intact at that point. But note- this was in Triela's past, when Hillshire found her.

The following sequence of the surgeons putting on a new leg for Triela is far into the future, when one of her legs needed replacement and neither 2 events are tied together. It is connected by something the surgeon says- "...cyborg is dreaming in her sleep.."

And why not? She is still human. Certain medications effects people is different ways, and these are not the Ether & Cloroform days... :twisted:

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Wileama on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 20:59

Honestly I don't see Triela's ordeal lasting days. It was a vicious event, but I simply can't imagine it dragging on for more then a something like 6-8 hours. That's more then enough time for the bastards to get all the wanted out of her.

As for the leg, yeah arterial bleeding kills quick so unless the mob guys had just cut that leg off they had to stop the bleeding.

I don't know how a professional doctor would approach the scene. However I have gotten some limited self aid, buddy care training. So I like to think I can make an educated guess. You have to asses the situation. Once you have an idea of what's going on treat the most serious injury first, and work you way down to the least serious.

With Triela I would probably to establish if she was still alive. If her leg was still in fact spurting blood that would be all the indication I would need. If the leg wasn't like we assume, I would check her breath by doing a head tilt, and check her pulse. Rachel just goes right to CPR for some reason. So maybe Triela's condition is really appearenty. Maybe Rachel has lost to much blood.

What ever the case the leg is the biggest issue. She'll bleed out from the wound in a minute, if not less. Once you stop the bleeding you have to get her breathing/heart beating, assuming of course either stopped. Besides that there didn't seem to be any other obvious injuries. So treat for shock, and do what you can to make her comfortable till proper medical care arrives.

That what I would do to treat a patient in that situation. Assuming I could keep my head on me, of course. I haven't been exposed to any really serious injuries yet, so that's still a possibility.

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Sintendo on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 21:06

I showed the page to one of my uncles. His response? She's dead; leave her alone.

He went on to say just what Wileama said: No blood gushing out of the wound = no heart beat = lost cause. Kinda sad, but I think he lost a guy while in Afghanistan...

Also, he's reading volume 3 as I type this,... lol...?

I dunno. I guess we could rule this out as me being a little too nitpicky.
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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Wileama on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 21:47

Well the wound could be cauterized, or have a tourniquet. The drawings are sufficiently unclear. So in that scenario it's possible she's still alive. Still it's one of those things that yeah I wouldn't pay to much attention to. Like carbon fiber frames, or conditioning its there for the story. Suspension of disbelief, and not to much of it either so it's cool.

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Sintendo on Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 22:45

Up to interpretation, I guess.
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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Danjo3 on Thu 20 Dec 2007 - 3:03

@Wileama wrote:The drawings are sufficiently unclear. So in that scenario it's possible she's still alive. Still it's one of those things that yeah I wouldn't pay to much attention to. Like carbon fiber frames, or conditioning its there for the story. Suspension of disbelief, and not to much of it either so it's cool.
I agree. I don't think Yu was going for technical accuracy in this scene. He was just trying to show the hell Triela had gone through, Rachelle saving her and Rachelle dying. His emphasis was definitely on the emotional impact of the scene. We also know how strenuous CPR is. I'm sure this was used to make the mortally wounded Rachelle's last act all the more heroic.

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Sintendo on Thu 20 Dec 2007 - 9:24

Makes me even more curious about Claes' past...

I wonder if it'll turn out she's had the worst luck of them all, or maybe something totally unexpected, like her being one of the Agent's or Doctor's daughter.

All we know was that she loved to read, and that her father was a teacher of some sort.
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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Danjo3 on Thu 20 Dec 2007 - 10:26

@Sintendo wrote:All we know was that she loved to read, and that her father was a teacher of some sort.
According to her file in the anime, he was a University professor.

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 20 Dec 2007 - 10:29

@Sintendo wrote:Makes me even more curious about Claes' past...

I wonder if it'll turn out she's had the worst luck of them all, or maybe something totally unexpected, like her being one of the Agent's or Doctor's daughter.

All we know was that she loved to read, and that her father was a teacher of some sort.

I dont know about the father, but if the pattern holds true for her as it does for the others, something violent happened to Claes to leave her in such a damaged condition and there was nobody for her afterwards.

I often think about the same thing for Elsa and Pia.

Sometimes I wonder if Section 2 has some ghoulish scheme in gathering up girls for their cyborg program and only that. The doctors are quoted that the SWA is doing a good job in providing money and services to other child patients in desperate need, but some how I dont see them cyborging a kid back to life from a traffic accident and release him/her back to their family just like that.

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Guest on Mon 24 Dec 2007 - 1:01

agree with the original post. If we refused to suspend disbelief, the young lady should have been dead.

On the other hand, it kinda make sense. Rachelle told Victor to never tell Triela of her last act because she would hate her. Remember, Rachelle could not have known Triela would become what we know she is now. She must have assumed Triela would be saved and lived as a cripple for the rest of her life. Hence, she'd better off dead and would have hated Rachelle for saving her. Now this is interesting, from this perspective, Rachelle's last act can be seen as selfish. As a medical examiner, she knew the life that awaited Triela if she was saved. Yet, Rachelle still opted to do so just so she could believe the world was not such a bad place. Of course, taking all these into consideration, the one that now suffers most is not Triela (she doesn't remember) or Rachelle (she's gone), but Victor Hartman aka. Hillshire who has the cross to bear

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Sintendo on Mon 24 Dec 2007 - 2:13

@wasyhuu wrote:Rachelle told Victor to never tell Triela of her last act because she would hate her.

Is this in volume 7 or 8?
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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Guest on Mon 24 Dec 2007 - 5:50

7

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Danjo3 on Mon 24 Dec 2007 - 8:43

@wasyhuu wrote:She must have assumed Triela would be saved and lived as a cripple for the rest of her life. Hence, she'd better off dead and would have hated Rachelle for saving her.
Had Triela gone into the civilian world, she would have walked with a prosthetic leg - a thing that people all around the world do every day. Better off dead? It in no way takes away from the quality of their lives. And another thing, your use of the word cripple is a little offensive.

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Wileama on Mon 24 Dec 2007 - 11:27

Sure she could walk around with an artificial leg. There are amputees who have done some truly amazing things. However it would have been a struggle. I'm sure her recovery from all those massive injuries wouldn't have been fun. Losing a leg isn't a death sentence, but it is still a hardship.

The biggest issue though if you ask me is the motional trauma she's suffered. A girl who lives though that is going to have serious relationship issues. Trust is probably going to be another issue. Suicide will be a real concern for a while. I'm sure there would be a boat load of other problems she may develop. Maybe not better off dead, but I'm sure our AU Triela would wonder about that at least once.

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Guest on Mon 24 Dec 2007 - 15:32

I must admit I don't have the best word choices. I apologize.

Emotional trauma is definitely a better explanation of why Rachelle thought Triela would have hated her for not letting her die. However, I work with teenagers occasionally and self image is very crucial even if she had been told what to expect from the get go. With one leg, she'd be getting a NANDA diagnosis of "disturbed self image related to loss of limb." Also, at her age group during the ordeal, which I'd assume early school age ( 6-8 ), there's the fear of body mutilation and exaggeration of injury ie. when you give these kids injection, they thoght their entire blood would come out from the needle hole. Of course, that comes back to emotional trauma as you mentioned.

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Re: By all accounts, Triela should have died...

Post by Tommygunner70 on Thu 27 Dec 2007 - 14:01

with some dumb luck you will be able to read volume 7 really soon.

I am just waiting on better Scans now, i had them from 'Chainm249saw' but they are CRAP!

The scans are fine to read, but a hell to edit, seeing as the scans were made by folding the book around. creating a color differance, this makes 'clearing ballons' a hell and ugly.

I need Clear Scans! no light differance, as in tear out page style scans.

if anyone finds those Please Send a link or means of obtaining them (Torrent, Emule, What ever!) to me so i can start again.

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