Twenty Five Years of Seperation

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Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Piero on Fri 17 Sep 2010 - 23:29

As some of you may know, Macross Frontier is one of my favorite anime series. It impressed me back when I first saw it, and subsequent rewatching has had me thinking I should perhaps be raising its position in my list of favorite anime to somewhere in the top three. With the recent screenings of the show I’ve done for an anime club I’m part of and the VF-25 model kit I acquired at a local convention, I’ve been in a real “Frontier” mood recently. Because of this, I allowed myself to be talked into going and viewing the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross. This proved to be an interesting experience both in terms of the links between the original series and Frontier and in terms of how much anime has changed over the past 25 years.

First of, Frontier really does draw a lot on its predecessor. Numerous shots in Frontier deliberately mimic ones from the original Macross, one of the most notable examples being a sequence where Alto attempts to grab hold or Ranka’s hand and haul her into his VF-25’s cockpit. There are even entire episodes which are modeled on ones from the original series such as the episode “Goodbye Sister,” which is a deliberate subversion of the original series episode “Pineapple Salad.” Even many of the characters in Frontier seem to be modeled on ones from the original series –Catherine Glass is reminiscent of Misa Hayase, Ranka Lee is reminiscent of Lynn Minmei, and Michael Blanc is an interesting hybrid of Roy Focker and Max Jenius with perhaps a little outside influence thrown in. All this (as well as references to other Macross series) generally plays out pretty well, although I do think having Ranka work at a restaurant with the exact same name as the one Lynn Minimei worked at may have been going a little far with the continuity porn. (I had less trouble with Alto and Ozma’s fighters having paint jobs resembling the ones on Hikaru and Roy’s or even the fact that they fly for a unit with the same name as the one those two flew for.)

Now as far as my thoughts on the original series go, I was surprised by how good parts of it were. I’d previously seen the movie version of the original Macross, and the extreme cheesiness of that film sort of turned me off the original series for a long time. Thankfully the much longer TV version quickly proved to be less cheesy than the shorter movie version. On the negative side, it did take quite a while to find its stride, and the characterisation was rarely entirely satisfactory. Whether due to improvements in the original animation or improvements in the restoration process, the artwork improved over the course of the series from something which had an effect comparable to seeing a model hanging from poorly obscured strings to something quite passable, and the storyline actually got fairly involving during some of the middle-late sections. It was actually kind of interesting to see a series investigate the aftermath of a devastating (not so) final battle, and there were actually times where I was reminded a little bit of the new Battlestar Galactica (though I think the new BSG is on a whole different level than this show). As noted however the characterisation was rarely entirely satisfactory –Hikaru comes across as an irresponsible douchebag, Lynn Minmei is a ditz, Misa Hayase had a tendency to gain my respect and then lose it again later, and there were times where I really didn’t feel that Captain Global was the sort of leader who ought to have a ship named after him in the future.

In spite of some good points the original series had, comparing it to Frontier really shows how far the anime industry advanced in the twenty five years between the two series, and not just in a strictly technical sense. The massive change in visuals may be the thing that strikes most people right off the bat when they first compare the two series, but there are also significant differences in how their stories are brought to life. One thing I found with Macross was that there were times were I felt a newer series would have portrayed things in a way that had more impact. A prime example of this is the scene where Hikaru sees a Zentraedi for the first time when one climbs out of his damaged battle pod. I think a modern series (at least a good one) would have used techniques that could more effectively convey a sense of terror than the ones in that scene did. Frontier’s wham episodes (and even a fair bit of stuff in the “regular” episodes) had a much greater impact on me than anything in the original Macross did, and I think that’s partly because the techniques used to give scenes in anime an emotional impact have been refined considerably over the years. I also think that Frontier has much better characterisation than the original Macross. Its characters are more believable and more complex, and the show does a much better job of establishing them and who they are. Furthermore Frontier had far less moments where it felt like the characters behaved the way they did simply because the script said they were supposed to act that way in that particular scene.

In spite of its flaws, there were parts of Super Dimension Fortress Macross that worked surprisingly well, and it’s clear that Macross Frontier owes a huge debt to its illustrious predecessor. The newer series is also not without its share of flaws. On the other hand however, I don’t think Macross Frontier is simply a sequel with a bigger budget and a heavy dose of CGI. In terms of visuals, music, characterisation and dramatic impact it simply plays its game on an entirely different level than the original series does. Despite all the crappy, purile shows that get produced these days twenty five years of anime development seems to have amounted to something.

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 19 Sep 2010 - 10:46

I have fond memories of Macross: Do You Remember Love?, but mostly because it was such a technical and visual advancement on any anime movie before it. I remember the huge "Summer of 84" marketing campaign they had for it and the "wow" factor at the quality of the animation and color the trailers and TV specials showed. Much like The Empire Strikes Back or Jurassic Park, it set a new benchmark for technical achievement.

And "Ai Oboete Imasu ka" is one of the most awesome love ballads, ever.

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 19 Sep 2010 - 12:19

That was so long ago, Kisk. Wonderful memories at best.

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Piero on Sun 19 Sep 2010 - 13:29

I should try rewatching Do You Remember Love, since really I don't remember the movie that well (har har, laugh if you want). It would be interesting to compare it to the movie version of Macross Frontier which should finally be available in fansub form in a few week's time thanks to the upcoming DVD/Bluray release.

I think my main problem with DYRL was that the reactions of the Zentraedi to various shocks were so over the top. Which is funny since one scene that I felt worked surprisingly well in the TV series was Millia using her and Max's baby to terrify the hell out of the Zentraedi soldiers at that factory. Somehow the TV series managed to get me to accept things like that more readily. I also remember one person commenting that one problem DYRL has is that it was made at a time when Macross was already so huge that the creators didn't feel much need to try to give the newcomers some grounding (which might be another good reason why I should try to rewatch it after having seen the TV version).

Regarding your comments on how amazing DYRL was in the early eighties, I do remember one of the criticisms of Frontier being that it didn't really break much new ground for the franchise from a technical standpoint. I was actually pretty impressed by Frontier the first time I saw it, but after seeing the Macross Zero OVA from six years earlier I have to admit that any advancements made between the two from a visual standpoint were pretty minimal. Then again, the Zero OVA did some things that are pretty impressive even by the standards of today's productions and may have had a lot to do with why Satelight got picked to work on Macross Frontier.

The same person who criticised Frontier for it's lack of technical innovation did think the show did a really good job of attracting new fans to the franchise though, and I think I agree there. Seeing Macross Frontier for the first time kind of reminded me of seeing Star Wars for the first time back when I was six or eight or so. Considering that I was like twenty one when I saw Frontier for the first time, I think that's pretty impressive. The new Star Trek movie from last year is probably about the only thing I can think of that had a similar effect.

I'm also reminded of the fact that there's been some debate about whether Frontier's many references to previous Macross series are a good thing. Some people think it hinders the series' ability to develop it's own identity. Funnily enough, there's some indication that the series may work better for newcomers that Macross veterans in some respects because the references fly over newcomers' heads. Probably about the best counterargument in favor of the references is the one that Frontier is a 25th Anniversary celebration for the franchise and thus it's appropriate for it to have lots of references to other series in the franchise.

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 19 Sep 2010 - 14:15

There is no doubt DYRL was nothing special in terms of story and acting. Within the official Macross canon, it's considered the movie the survivors of the television series made to tell their story. And we all know how well a Hollywood movie "based on a true story" tracks to the real story. Wink

So there are significant changes to the movie plot and background compared to the original television series. And the characters are condensed down because you have two hours to develop them as opposed to the 18 the series gave. And the movie's sequel, Macross II: Lovers, Again, has subsequently been removed from the official Macross canon.


As for Macross Frontier on a technical level, I think it was quite impressive and significantly better than the preceding Macross 7. As a series, it had the highest technical and artistic production values and I agree that it compares well with the OAVs like Macross Plus and Macross Zero. Then again, the OAVs had significantly less episodes so they could afford higher production values, I imagine.

And as someone who has seen all of the Macross franchise, I liked the homages to the earlier shows, especially the episode where they re-shot the finale of Macross Zero. And it was nice seeing the Megaroad-01 from Macross 2012: Flashback Lynn Minmei in the opening animation of all the various colony ship trajectories.

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Piero on Mon 20 Sep 2010 - 1:28

Do you think I should check out Macross 7 as well? That seems to be the one Macross series which doesn't have a very good reputation (among the fans over here that have managed to see it -I hear it's very popular in Japan). However I imagine it could be a sort of "Missing Link" as far as the development of the series goes, as I believe it's the only full length TV series between the original Macross and Frontier. Plus Ozma Lee is a big fan of a band that plays a major role in that series, and that's got to count for something. Razz

And I actually do like the homages and such in Frontier in general, in fact I consider the sequence with Alto rescuing Ranka that pays homage to Hikaru rescuing Minmei in the second episode of the original series is one of the highlights of Frontier. I just wonder if maybe they did take it a little far, particularly with the restaurant names.

As a note, much as I liked Frontier better overall I think Zero may still deserve to hold the crown for variable fighter dogfight scenes. Some of the air battles in that OVA are just amazing.

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 20 Sep 2010 - 12:52

Piero wrote:Do you think I should check out Macross 7 as well?

No. I found it totally dull and stupid, mainly thanks to the main cast. The only good episode was when Max and Miriya stopped bitching at each other long enough to jump into their original VF-1s and kick some ass.

Macross Zero is my favorite part of the franchise. They just hit that one out of the park, IMO.

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by crazyidiot78 on Mon 20 Sep 2010 - 20:41

Having only only seen Robotech which includes macross I can't really compare it to Macross fronteir because of the changes made for the adaptation for Robotech. I will say that I found Macross fronteir to be very well done, and I didn't mind all the references to previous shows mainly because I haven't seen those shows. I really enjoyed the final episode where they blended all of the songs from early in the show into the music for the final battle.
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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Piero on Tue 21 Sep 2010 - 0:59

Nyan Nyan Service Medley doesn't include all the songs -even the final episode of Frontier as a whole doesn't use all the songs that are in the series (though it might be funny if they had tried to find a way to incorporate Carrot Loves You Yeah! Razz ). Nyan Nyan Service Medley is composed of Lion, Infinity, My Boyfriend is a Pilot, Diamond Crevasse, Interstellar Flight, What 'Bout My Star?, Lion, Do You Remember Love, Lion, and Aimo (yes, it uses Lion three times before the end). Which is still pretty impressive for a seven and a half minute song.

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Piero on Thu 23 Sep 2010 - 17:05

I missed an opportunity earlier, so I'm going to take it now:

Kiskaloo wrote:
Piero wrote:Do you think I should check out Macross 7 as well?

No. I found it totally dull and stupid, mainly thanks to the main cast. The only good episode was when Max and Miriya stopped bitching at each other long enough to jump into their original VF-1s and kick some ass.

Well, what do you expect from two people who decided to get married within twenty four hours of one of them trying to kill the other? Razz (One part of the original Macross where the characterisation was a wee bit of a stretch, IMO.)

On a related note, I shouldn't have watched this trailer, because it has me really pumped up for the DVD release of the first Macross Frontier movie on October 7. Hiopefully there's some fansubbers out there who are just as pumped about the release as I am.



I will admit that I'm a little disappointed by the fact that a fair bit of the footage in this trailer looks like it's taken from the TV series, though there's also some pretty awesome looking new stuff as well. I don't know how well the story will do being compressed into two hours, but at the very least there ought to be some good eye candy. Just take a look at that trailer. There's Ranka fan service, Sheryl fan service, VF-25 fan service, Alto fan service... something for everyone. Razz


Last edited by Piero on Sun 26 Sep 2010 - 17:06; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by crazyidiot78 on Thu 23 Sep 2010 - 22:27

Dam the new stuff looks pretty darn good. cheers
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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Piero on Fri 8 Oct 2010 - 20:04

Well, in spite of Kiskaloo's anti-recommendation I decided to try checking out Macross 7. Which I found pretty freaking ridiculous but which I also found kind of fun at times in spite of that. After a certain point I think I just came to accept a lot of the ridiculousness and rolled with it, although the fact that some of the ridiculous elements became less prominent later on in the series probably helped. I also have to admit that certain things might have worked less well if I hadn't watched so much of the series so fast -there were times where certain drawn out things got frustrating even when watching the series in a compressed time frame. And nothing can change the fact that the characterisation had issues. On the plus side, the artwork wasn't all that bad and some of the soundtrack was actually pretty cool.

A few observations on the series:
-Everyone in this show is a lolicon (Mylene is fourteen damnit).
-Apparently the police can't recognise the obvious face masks the enemy infiltrators use.
-The music is pretty awesome.
-The running gag with that girl who tries to give Basara flowers was kind of funny at times.
-The VF-11 Thunderbolt pilots suck. Even the VF-171 pilots in Frontier gave a better impression of themselves then these guys did.
-The artwork didn't look all that bad, but there was a lack of fluidity to a lot of the space battle scenes. This was especially apparent when there had fighters in battroid mode just standing there shooting.

And since I tend to concentrate a lot on characterisation with series, here's some comments on some of the characters:

Basara: I have to wonder what would make a guy as ridiculously committed to trying to change hearts through music as he is, though eventually I just came to accept it as part of the show. At least the fact that he's a rock singer makes the effect he has a bit more credible than if he'd been using pop (the Power of Rock is one thing, but could you actually take the Power of Pop even somewhat seriously?). And seeing him convert an entire fleet of hostile female Zentraedi into squealing fangirls was actually kind of awesome, if rather ridiculous. When you combine that with the effect his music had on that protodevlin girl he's obviously the biggest sex god in the entire franchise. Except that he never actually gets any or seems that interested in it. Also he's kind of a jerkass douchebag at times (funnily enough, this seems to apply to all the male leads in Macross -Alto was actually probably the least douchebag-ish one, and that's kind of saying something considering what he's like at times).
Gamlin: Needs better hair. Seriously, I initially disliked him in large part due to his haircut. Also, he's a lolicon and kind of bland as a character.
Mylene: First off, would it have killed them to make her a couple years older? There was no reason she had to be fourteen, in fact it seemed really strange that she was given the kind of stuff she was (and wasn't) doing. There was also quite a bit of untapped potential with her character. They could have played her up as a rebellious runaway or something, particularly given the situation with her parents.
Max and Millia: I don't necessarily think having two characters whose relationship was in trouble was a bad idea. It was just really poorly handled. There's no real explanation as to why their relationship is suddenly in such dire staits, and it really did not reflect well on either of them when they allowed their problems to spill over into their professional lives. Seriously, what does it say to their respective staff when they publically go at each other's throats rather than trying to ensure the respective organisations they lead cooperate for the sake of the fleet? Speaking of which, isn't it a little nepotic for the two of them to hold basically the two highest positions of authority within the fleet?
Overall, I think there was a lot of untapped potential here, especially when you factor Mylene into the equation. Some people might be annoyed by a focus on drama within a family, but if it was well handled I think it could have worked and provided an interesting subplot that could have helped fill out the series' really long length.
Grepelnitch: I can see why the fansubbers felt the need to directly point out that this character was a guy. Seriously, he makes Alto seem like a god of testosterone in comparison.
Gigil: Some people seem to find his devotion to Sivil admirable. Personally, I think it makes him come across as being kind of like an obsessed stalker. Laughing
Sivil: Was really underdeveloped as a character considering how important her part was. Seriously, most of the stuff she says is some sort of comment on Spiritia. Also, considering her interest in Basara and her tendency to follow her own whims rather than going with the group (to the point where she was targetted for elimination) it seems a bit odd that she just decided to join the other Protodeviln in taking off at the end. On the other hand, her reactions to Basara's music were pretty amusing due to how... suggestive... they were.
Grabil: Was seriously annoying. To the point where I wanted him to get killed off for real. Couldn't they have come up with a less annoying Protodevlin to take his place among the ones that survived the series?

Anyway, 7 was kind of fun but it's pretty out there compared to Frontier (one of Frontier's achievements in my mind was it's ability to give a sense of "solidity" with it's establishment of the setting) or even the original Macross.

And that's just the TV series. I've tried watching one episode of the "Dynamite" OVA thus far and my reaction is sort of "WTF?" Try imaging Macross doing Moby Dick. Then crank the weirdness of whatever you were thinking up significantly. Laughing

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Piero on Sun 24 Oct 2010 - 17:44

Comments on some of the movie versions of some of the Macross Frontier characters. I'd been going to include this in my review of the Macross Frontier movie in the Autumn 2010 Anime thread, but decided it would be best if I stuck to general review stuff with that.

Ranka: Of the three leads I think her character suffered the least from the transition from TV series to movie. I think this may partly be due to the fact that while I liked her quite a lot in the TV series, I also felt that she got shortchanged on characters development compared to Alto and Sheryl. Therefore she had less to lose in the transition (although I do feel her storyline in the TV version was more emotionally involving than what was shown here).
Alto: Alto’s motivation in this version seems somewhat different from in the TV series. Here he apparently wanted to stop acting because he was worried he’d lose himself as a person if he kept taking on personas while acting. There was no indication of this in the TV series, where he was simply at odds with his dad because he wanted to pursue his dreams of flying while his dad wanted him to take over the family business. I’m personally not sure I’m too big on the change myself. I liked TV Alto and the interesting blend of character traits that he possessed.
This version of Alto also seems more reckless and irresponsible in some ways than his TV counterpart. This may partly be due to the responsibility he showed in the second part of the TV series. However his assault on the Vajra battleship really does seem a lot stupider this time around –in the TV series he had an objective when he went loose cannon: get in, rescue his captured friend, get out. In this version he goes in on his own, with limited firepower, and without his teammates in order to destroy the thing. Admitedly he was trying to save some escaping ships from its weaponry, but that’s one damn big goal to try to achieve without close coordination with his teammates.
Sheryl: Like TV Alto, TV Sheryl possessed an interesting blend of character traits. She was an arrogant prima donna, but she wasn’t above giving some big sisterly advice and commanded admiration for the sheer force of her personality. A bit of that is still here, but she doesn’t seem like quite the same person this time around. She also seems a lot more vulnerable here than she was in the TV series. TV Sheryl did show vulnerability during the second half of the TV series, but it took a hell of a lot to crack her shell. That’s probably why this version of her character seemed weaker than the TV version.
Clan and Michael: Seem to be on much better terms in this version than in the TV one. A certain major development with them that happened in the TV version didn’t happen in the movie. In some ways this is a good thing because they barely got any development in this version and the event wouldn’t have had the same brutal emotional impact that it did in the TV series because of that. Plus it wouldn’t have been appropriate dramatically to put that event at the end of this movie. Perhaps they’re saving that event for the second movie (where it could be very appropriate if it takes cues from the TV series).
The villains: Are a lot less obvious this time around for the most part, at least to the audience. A person not familiar with the TV series might actually thing they’re all good guys at the end of this movie. Which might be something the second film can utilize to great effect. We’ll see.



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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Piero on Fri 26 Nov 2010 - 22:04

Wasn’t really planning to write more on this, but a clip and a incomplete parody I saw on youtube convinced me to rewatch the Do You Remember Love Movie, and my impression of it this time around ended up being quite different than it was when I first saw it (which I think was shortly after Macross Frontier started its main TV run in 2008).

Anyhow, I think for the most part I’m going to agree that the animation was pretty impressive in spite of a few parts not working quite so well. I think the big change though was that for some reason I found the movie far less cheesy this time around. Maybe it has something to do with a greater familiarity with Macross and Zentraedi, or perhaps it’s my tendency to find things that bugged me the first time I saw something don’t bug me as much when I rewatch. Perhaps both –I used to have considerable issues with Ranka’s intervention during the Zentraedi uprising on Gallia IV in Macross Frontier, but now find it doesn’t bug me all that much.

I also think that in general the characterisation in Do You Remember Love is a big improvement over the characterisation in the Macross TV series. Hikaru is less of a douchebag, Misa isn’t constantly losing the respect she’s been earning by acti ng stupid, and Minmay doesn’t seem like as much of a total ditz.

Now a few observations:

The director of Macross Frontier had made a statement relating the two female leads of that series (Ranka Lee and Sheryl Nome) to the TV and Movie versions of Minmay, and while I wouldn’t go so far as to say that Ranka is TV Minmay and Sheryl is the movie version, there are resemblances. Some of Sheryl’s early scenes with Alto seem rather reminiscent of movie Minmay’s early scenes with Hikaru even if her personality it rather different, while the resemblance between Ranka and TV Minmay is pretty obvious (though thankfully Ranka lacks TV Minmay’s extreme ditziness).

Rewatching this movie made me aware of even more bits from Frontier that are modeled after scenes from earlier series. I found it particularly interesting that Alto’s rescuing Ranka in episode two of the TV version of Frontier and part of his rescue of her near the end of the movie version are both based on scenes where Hikaru rescued Minmay, with the former being based on the scene where he rescued her early in the TV series and the latter being partly based on the scene where he rescued her near the beginning of DYRL (although the Frontier movie rescue sequence also resembles other things as well, including a scene from the final episode of Macross Zero).

I’d also noticed a possible reflection of changing cultural attitudes when comparing a scene from this movie to a vaguely similar one in Frontier. In the movie, there’s a scene where Roy Fokker comes on to his girlfriend in a way that makes her rather uncomfortable. There’s a scene between Leon Mishima and Catherine Glass in episode three of Macross Frontier that kind of resembles the movie scene. The difference is, in the movie Roy is supposed to be a cool guy while the scene in Frontier is one of the earliest indicators that Leon is a rat bastard.

I’d also like to state the obvious by remarking that while it’s nice to incorporate both the Macross TV series and the DYRL movie as canon by claiming that DYRL is an in universe historical film, there are some serious problems with that explanation. Namely, if DYRL is supposed to be a historical film based on the events of the Macross TV series, then it’s a grossly inaccurate historical film. Now you’d kind of expect some historical inaccuracy when trying to turn a months long war into a two hour movie that’s meant to be entertaining for mainstream audiences. However DYRL doesn’t even accurately reflect whom was fighting whom (Zentreadi and Meltrandi fighting each other instead of the Supervision Army mentioned in the TV series), and portrays two major historical figures as being biological components of mobile fortress weapons when they were actually reasonably normal examples of their species in real life.

Also in a weird was I feel like Max and Millia have a central role in this movie since it almost seemed like they were brought together by the song that plays a key role in it. Ironic considering the state of their relationship in Macross 7. Laughing

On a geeky note, Hikaru has a model of an XB-70 Valkyrie in his quarters. The XB-70 was a cancelled high speed bomber aircraft that was apparently one of the main reasons Macross’ main mecha designer apparently fell in love with planes as a kid. The fact that the VF-1 Variable Fighters were named “Valkyries” almost certainly has something to do with that fact.

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 26 Nov 2010 - 22:52

Piero wrote:I’d also like to state the obvious by remarking that while it’s nice to incorporate both the Macross TV series and the DYRL movie as canon by claiming that DYRL is an in universe historical film, there are some serious problems with that explanation. Namely, if DYRL is supposed to be a historical film based on the events of the Macross TV series, then it’s a grossly inaccurate historical film.

DYRL is not part of the official canon and if you have seen any Hollywood movie with the tagling "inspired by a true story" or "based on a true story" has absolutely nothing in common with the actual true story except the title.

So the moviemakers were just following tradition. Wink

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Piero on Fri 11 Feb 2011 - 15:50

We're now only about two weeks away from the release of the second of the two Macross Frontier movies.



I assume Ranka's magical girl thing is part of some concert she's putting on...

Anyhow, apparently fans are being promised a resolution to the series' main love triangle, but some of them are unsure whether they should trust that promise. I notice this trailer is playing that angle up big time and dropping plenty of contradictory hints on which way it's going to go. Laughing

On another note this movie will apparently introduce the prototype for a new super-fighter that looks kind of like a lame kitbash of previous variable fighter designs. Fan speculation is that it's in there because Bandai (who makes model kits) has a financial stake in Macross Frontier. Still hoping that thing is just some model kit in Alto's room or something despite its prominence in promotional material.

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 11 Feb 2011 - 19:05

"The Fake Songstress" followed the TV show close enough that I wasn't lost when I saw it in the theater in Japan, so if this second one does the same I might try and catch it.

Alto struck me as being a bit smarter in the movie than the TV series, so hopefully this means that if they do resolve the love triangle, he makes the smart choice of picking Ranka. Wink Good

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Piero on Fri 11 Feb 2011 - 21:49

The main difference between the first movie and the TV series is that in the movie the Frontier government suspects a Galaxy conspiracy right from the get go -they even suspect Sheryl of being involved in a Galaxy plot. This is why in the film Sheryl ends up hiring SMS to rescue the survivors from Galaxy rather than the Frontier government sending aid -the Frontier government thinks the SOS is just a ruse. At the end of the film it seems that the TV series villains are actually good guys this time around, but I think they'll turn out to be villains in the second film. Only this time they're going to be above suspicion since Grace was "wrongfully" suspected of being a spy and people think Leon is a trustworthy member of the Frontier government.

I'd heard the second film is supposed to have more substantial changes than the first, although the trailer gives the impression it will follow the TV series pretty closely. Make of that what you will.

I like both Ranka and Sheryl quite a lot, but in spite of that I have some pretty strong views on the central love triangle. When I first started watching the series I was a Ranka/Alto fan but after rewatching the TV series a few times I've switched sides. Sheryl and Alto seem to develop a very powerful emotional connection over the course of the series while Ranka's relationship with Alto seems more like a one sided puppy dog crush. I also think that Sheryl understands Alto better than Ranka does. She seems to understand just how important his flying is to him, something that her choice of birthday presents clearly indicates (speaking of which I don't believe Sheryl backstabbed Ranka in that episode. It can easily seem that way if you overlook some easy to miss details, but when those are taken into account the accusation doesn't stand up to scrutiny).

Which reminds me of something funny that resulted from people trying to figure out what a Japanese language interview was saying about the movie:

Animsuki Poster 1: Alto's VF turns into a woman, that's what'll happen!

Me: In that case Ranka and Sheryl are both out of the running. Razz

Animesuki Poster 2: Yeah, they do not stand a ghost of a chance.

I wonder if I should throw in a comment about how the yuri-esque Ranka/Sheryl promotional art supports that conclusion. Presumably the two of them are shacking up with each other because Alto has run off somewhere with VF-ko. Laughing

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Piero on Sat 26 Feb 2011 - 14:25

Well, the movie is now in theatres in Japan. Apparently it does have Alto make a choice regarding the central love triangle. Also it's apparently way, way different from the TV series continuity. One of the guys on animesuki who had seen it thought it was definitely worth seeing on a big screen, but also admitted that he gave up trying to catch everything the characters were saying (it sounds like he knew some Japanese but he's not really proficient enough to keep up with how fast things can get going in entertainment productions).

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Robert Frazer on Sat 26 Feb 2011 - 15:39

This is something of a remove from the new film, Piero, but as you're a big Macross fan you'd be the best person to ask: is there any difference between the miniseries and the movie versions of Macross Plus?

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Piero on Sat 26 Feb 2011 - 16:01

I haven't seen more than clips of the movie version of Plus, but to my understanding yes there are changes. There's some new parts in the movie as well as some parts that were left out. I get the impression that the two do have a lot in common however and that the changes that were made don't significantly alter the storyline. The most significant change I'm aware of is how the fight with the V-9 that occured towards the end of the film was handled.

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Officer_Charon on Sat 26 Feb 2011 - 17:46

As someone who's seen both (Own the movie on VHS and the series on DVD), yeah, there's a fair bit removed from the movie - not so much that it's impossible to follow, but a noticeable amount that helps to explain stuff later. I can't think of specifics off the top of my head right now (been a while since I've seen either), but on the whole, I preferred the miniseries when I finally got my grubby little paws on it

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Re: Twenty Five Years of Seperation

Post by Piero on Sun 15 May 2011 - 1:29

Since he hated Macross 7 I figured Kiskaloo might get a kick out of this. It perfectly captures the things that make Macross 7 the laughingstock of the franchise.



There was also an abridged version of DYRL that was really awesome (it had professional grade voice acting) but unfortunately it got taken down because of issues with copyright.

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