What really is in the Conditioning meds?

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What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Jacen Starslayer on Sat 8 Jan 2011 - 15:20

I was talking with CrazyIdiot78 yesterday and we discussing possible side-effects of the cybernetics and lack of the conditioning cocktail.

So we started to think of the components, this what what we thought up for the insane cocktail.

Mercury - Preservative and the component that eventually kills the subject.
Benzodizapans – Anti-depressant
Immunosuppressants – Anti-Rejection medicine so that the body wouldn't reject the cybernetics
Amphetmines – To cause focus in the body.
Opiates – Primary addictive component as well as dulling the ability to feel pain.
Estrogen – for the suppression of the girls’ growth

Your thoughts?

Also the erasure of the memories and implantation of other memories is done through rapidly flashing lights from a device that looks like the old Visual Boy game system.


Last edited by Jacen Starslayer on Sat 8 Jan 2011 - 15:23; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added content)

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Awinnell on Sat 8 Jan 2011 - 15:41

Cortisol, in the short term it boosts memory, but in the long term it causes memory damage

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by crazyidiot78 on Sat 8 Jan 2011 - 16:35

Just hit me do you think performance enhancing drugs like steriods inaddition to the cybernetics. Also on that thread could those drugs be tailored to a cyborgs skill set. An example could be depressants for Rico to lower the heart rate for sniping
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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by crazyidiot78 on Sat 8 Jan 2011 - 23:35

Not to burst your bubble but memmory loss from long term cortisol usage is not a major effect or problem. If we want to look for a memory suppressent or memmory loss drug the other psychotropic drugs. Also Jacen Lithium is used more for Manic depression and not depression alone.
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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Sun 9 Jan 2011 - 0:40

I can't even begin to conjecture about what chemicals would be used to facilitate imaginary technology, but I am absolutely confident that the handlers & support staff have created a drink called a "Conditioning Cocktail."

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Alfisti on Sun 9 Jan 2011 - 1:26

@Professor Voodoo wrote:...but I am absolutely confident that the handlers & support staff have created a drink called a "Conditioning Cocktail."
...for those days you really need to forget.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 9 Jan 2011 - 1:36

I've just left it ambiguous in my stories.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Sun 9 Jan 2011 - 1:37

@Kiskaloo wrote:I've just left it ambiguous in my stories.
The only mention I've given it is that (in my "universe") the conditioning cocktail becomes unstable and breaks down under pressure (air or water). This caused the death of Elio's first cyborg, and provides a reason why Marisa can't be given a full dose.
@Alfisti wrote:
@Professor Voodoo wrote:...but I am absolutely confident that the handlers & support staff have created a drink called a "Conditioning Cocktail."
...for those days you really need to forget.
Perhaps it's an initiation prank played on the new handlers. Rico is brought in to mix a random drink, and the new guy has to swallow the whole thing no matter how awful it is.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 9 Jan 2011 - 1:43

@Professor Voodoo wrote:
@Alfisti wrote:
@Professor Voodoo wrote:...but I am absolutely confident that the handlers & support staff have created a drink called a "Conditioning Cocktail."
...for those days you really need to forget.
Perhaps it's an initiation prank played on the new handlers. Rico is brought in to mix a random drink, and the new guy has to swallow the whole thing no matter how awful it is.

Michele: "Where's the umbrella?"

Rico: "One moment, Mister Pagan."

[Returns a moment later with a full-size umbrella.]

Rico: "Here you go, sir."

...ugh.

Michele: "Thank you, Rico."

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Alfisti on Sun 9 Jan 2011 - 1:52

@Professor Voodoo wrote:Perhaps it's an initiation prank played on the new handlers. Rico is brought in to mix a random drink, and the new guy has to swallow the whole thing no matter how awful it is.
Puts a whole new meaning to "waking up ceremony". Wink

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Officer_Charon on Sun 9 Jan 2011 - 1:57

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Professor Voodoo wrote:
@Alfisti wrote:
@Professor Voodoo wrote:...but I am absolutely confident that the handlers & support staff have created a drink called a "Conditioning Cocktail."
...for those days you really need to forget.
Perhaps it's an initiation prank played on the new handlers. Rico is brought in to mix a random drink, and the new guy has to swallow the whole thing no matter how awful it is.

Michele: "Where's the umbrella?"

Rico: "One moment, Mister Pagan."

[Returns a moment later with a full-size umbrella.]

Rico: "Here you go, sir."

...ugh.

Michele: "Thank you, Rico."

*blinkblink* I have NO idea how, but I have GOT to write this tasty adult beverage into my fanon, somehow.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Sun 9 Jan 2011 - 2:15

@Officer_Charon wrote:
*blinkblink* I have NO idea how, but I have GOT to write this tasty adult beverage into my fanon, somehow.
Your story is pretty grim & dark right now. It'll be difficult to transition into a comedic scene. Looking forward to seeing how you handle it!


Rico does not seem to me very well versed in spirits...

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Officer_Charon on Sun 9 Jan 2011 - 2:19

I... might have an idea how...

Also...

Henrietta: You ARE going to be bringing that back to the dorms, right?

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Jacen Starslayer on Sun 9 Jan 2011 - 4:14

Jay: Don't forget me to bring me some, Rico.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 9 Jan 2011 - 9:55

Cortisol is unlikely. Anyone on prolonged doses would be an utter mess - trunchal obesity, skin striations, impaired wound healing, psychosis, high blood pressure, diabetes, muscle wasting... the list goes on and on. Mercury we can rule out, too - I cannot envision what purpose it might serve.

Jacen is probably on the money with the immunosuppresants, hormones, opiates and amphetamines. I think it goes without saying that the medication also includes ingredients that help the synthetic organs and cyber implants function optimally.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Officer_Charon on Sun 9 Jan 2011 - 18:51

The trouble with the immunosuppressants would come if one of the girls got a cold, though... how close to the real thing ARE these replacement organs? Anything there for a disease (bacteria, perhaps) to interfere with?

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by crazyidiot78 on Sun 9 Jan 2011 - 21:02

Natch I can actually buy the use of Mercury as it was used as a preservative in vaccines. Also mercury containing compounds can be used as adjuncts to increase the efficacy of certain medications, mainly in vaccines. Givern the advanced nature of the technology in gunslinger girl and the fringe of medicine they are opperating on I am willing to buy it.
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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by maverick375 on Sun 9 Jan 2011 - 22:59

Jello. Lime flavored Jello. And caffine. Lots of it.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Jacen Starslayer on Mon 10 Jan 2011 - 2:22

Yum...Jello. [starts humming the Jello jingle from the 90's: J-E-LL-O, it's alive.]

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Officer_Charon on Mon 10 Jan 2011 - 2:36

Intravenous Jello.... IV CAFFEINE?! Sign me up, son!

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Mon 10 Jan 2011 - 2:38

@maverick375 wrote:Jello. Lime flavored Jello. And caffine. Lots of it.
The Jello I can understand from a scientific standpoint...it has unique & unexplainable properties. The extra caffeine however, is something none of the OC cyborgs need.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Officer_Charon on Mon 10 Jan 2011 - 2:42

Oh Jesus.... I just pictured Marisa after indulging in a Jolt run...

Hilshire: Elio... is Marisa VIBRATING?

Elio: Oh Christ... let me get the crash webbing...

Marisa: I CAN SEE THROUGH TIME!!!!

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Alfisti on Mon 10 Jan 2011 - 3:53

@Professor Voodoo wrote:
@maverick375 wrote:Jello. Lime flavored Jello. And caffine. Lots of it.
The Jello I can understand from a scientific standpoint...it has unique & unexplainable properties. The extra caffeine however, is something none of the OC cyborgs need.
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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 10 Jan 2011 - 8:12

@Officer_Charon wrote:The trouble with the immunosuppressants would come if one of the girls got a cold, though... how close to the real thing ARE these replacement organs? Anything there for a disease (bacteria, perhaps) to interfere with?
Food for thought, certainly. My fanfics have the girls virtually immune to stuff like radiation and chemical/biological weapons, for what it's worth (not much, to be honest, given that I just threw that in my writing without any serious consideration - thought it would sound cool, and that was that). But see the point crazyidiot raises below...

@crazyidiot78 wrote:Natch I can actually buy the use of Mercury as it was used as a preservative in vaccines. Also mercury containing compounds can be used as adjuncts to increase the efficacy of certain medications, mainly in vaccines. Givern the advanced nature of the technology in gunslinger girl and the fringe of medicine they are opperating on I am willing to buy it.
Huh. First I've heard of this, and it's true - the preservative bit, at least. The organomercury compound in question, thiomersal, also has antiseptic and antifungal properties. Perhaps a similar substance is present within the conditioning cocktail, which counteracts any infections that might result from immunosuppresion. Of course, the ironic thing is that it's also toxic and therefore contributes to the cyborgs' lifespans being short.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 10 Jan 2011 - 18:25

@Alfisti wrote:
@Professor Voodoo wrote:
@maverick375 wrote:Jello. Lime flavored Jello. And caffine. Lots of it.
The Jello I can understand from a scientific standpoint...it has unique & unexplainable properties. The extra caffeine however, is something none of the OC cyborgs need.
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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Tue 11 Jan 2011 - 9:14

@maverick375 wrote:Jello. Lime flavored Jello. And caffine. Lots of it.
I wrote: The Jello I can understand from a scientific standpoint...it has unique & unexplainable properties.
I've reconsidered.

The lime Jello can be used as a disciplinary tool...

Giuseppe: Henrietta you disobeyed orders, fired 5 full magazines into an apartment, got yourself shot and cost the SWA over a quarter-million euros in damages.

Henrietta: I'm sorry Giuse, I was just trying to be of use.

Giuseppe: I expect you to finish the whole thing...
Spoiler:

Henrietta: (winces and takes the first bite) Eh...it's not too bad...you girls wanna try some?

All her fellow cyborgs quickly push their chairs away from the table.

Henrietta: You suck.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Alfisti on Tue 11 Jan 2011 - 9:20

@Professor Voodoo wrote:Giuseppe: I expect you to finish the whole thing...
Are those... olives?

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Officer_Charon on Tue 11 Jan 2011 - 16:30

And celery, and tomatoes... and cheese wedges? Mio Says Wut?

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Awinnell on Tue 11 Jan 2011 - 17:51

how about lithium as a mood stabilser,and valium as an anti anxiety treatment ?

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Professor Voodoo on Tue 11 Jan 2011 - 17:55

@Alfisti wrote: Are those... olives?
Officer Charon wrote:And celery, and tomatoes... and cheese wedges?
Yet another reason Monty does not like visiting "home base."

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John Darme: Yes, they've got me working with the SRT team, and assisting with training.

Monty: Word of advice...avoid the lime Jello.

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I love the duality of this thread; a few folks taking the question seriously...others following a Jello tangent.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Officer_Charon on Tue 11 Jan 2011 - 18:08

Jello is ALWAYS relevant. *grins*

In all seriousness, I've got a buddy with a biology Masters degree (some sort of specialty, I couldn't tell you what, because I have no clue) and another with a chemistry background... I'm fixing to pick their brains on the matter

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Puget Sound on Thu 13 Jan 2011 - 15:48

@crazyidiot78 wrote:Natch I can actually buy the use of Mercury as it was used as a preservative in vaccines. Also mercury containing compounds can be used as adjuncts to increase the efficacy of certain medications, mainly in vaccines. Givern the advanced nature of the technology in gunslinger girl and the fringe of medicine they are opperating on I am willing to buy it.

The dose of mercury in old vaccines was very small, and only caused problems in a very small subset of the population that was sensitive to it. Even if the girls had many doses, it probably wouldn't harm them, but maybe their cyborg parts skew it toward being much more harmful- I don't know.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by crazyidiot78 on Thu 13 Jan 2011 - 20:39

True the small doses of mercury once or twice would not be a major issue but if a mercury containing compound is a component of the conditioning medication this would lead to chronic mercury exposure. This could be further compounded by the cybernetics preventing chelation of the mercury from the body. Thus over time the level would become toxic. Thus there is some sci fi posturing involved but it is possible in the GSG universe in my opinion.
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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Jacen Starslayer on Thu 13 Jan 2011 - 21:02

@Puget Sound wrote:
@crazyidiot78 wrote:Natch I can actually buy the use of Mercury as it was used as a preservative in vaccines. Also mercury containing compounds can be used as adjuncts to increase the efficacy of certain medications, mainly in vaccines. Givern the advanced nature of the technology in gunslinger girl and the fringe of medicine they are opperating on I am willing to buy it.

The dose of mercury in old vaccines was very small, and only caused problems in a very small subset of the population that was sensitive to it. Even if the girls had many doses, it probably wouldn't harm them, but maybe their cyborg parts skew it toward being much more harmful- I don't know.

Of course the amount of mercury was small almost trace amounts. But don't forget that the girls will be getting doses often (perhaps daily) and mercury that you can ingest from fish takes often months to leave the body. So the trace amounts of mercury builds up over time until it reaches a lethal dose.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Schaschanist on Tue 18 Jan 2011 - 7:23

I thought about the drug.
In my Opinion i does not make sense to use it every time they repair the girls body.
Wherefore is it? To let them forget the pain?
Haha, they dont feel much pain.

A bit morphine and some immunsupreassant do the same job.
So i think the conditioning here makes no sense. The only thing i does here is to shorten their lifes...

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 18 Jan 2011 - 7:29

It's apparently needed to make the cyber implants work properly. Also, it keeps them obedient.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Schaschanist on Tue 18 Jan 2011 - 7:44

Do the cybernetics just only work with a special chemical that is in the conditioning drug or what??
I dont think so....

So there is really no special need for the whole drug at each repairing.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 18 Jan 2011 - 7:58

But the fact remains that it IS frequently used. There doesn't seem to be any other logical explanation as to why.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by funkmachine on Mon 16 May 2011 - 10:42

i think that there is some creatine phosphate and Adenosine triphosphat in it.
but mosty i can see day blood tests and the like being used to work out the next days dose.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by crazyidiot78 on Mon 16 May 2011 - 17:42

I could see creatine phosphate in the conditioning meds but ATP (adenosine triphosphate) has a very short half life and would not stay stable in the medication long enough to make it worthwhile
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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 16 May 2011 - 17:49

Unless, of course, they've made some kind of artificial ATP analogue with a nice long half-life.

Artificial analogues of biochemical substances are all the rage nowadays.

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Estrogen

Post by restonme on Fri 5 Jul 2013 - 21:20

for the sake of my story can we Keep out Estrogen.
my cyborg Needs it to show time and age throughout the story.
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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 5 Jul 2013 - 21:26

@restonme wrote:for the sake of my story can we Keep out Estrogen. my cyborg Needs it to show time and age throughout the story.

You are free to do what you want within your own fiction.

Personally, I think the comment in the ADV translation that Claes was taking estrogen pills was something they just made up. There is no such reference on that page in the Japanese tankōbon and I don't recall a footnotes page that would reference it, either.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 5 Jul 2013 - 21:29

The Estrogren is to keep the girls from getting pregnant, for certain Calcium metabolism, to keep growing facial hair and a deepen voice from an over stressed Adrenal Gland producing Testosterone.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by restonme on Fri 5 Jul 2013 - 23:51

now i think i can understand the estrogen but can someone please specify what types of immunodeppresents. also i think that opiates could be necessary because if they are working with technology as advances as we think, i think they could permanatlay "deactivate" the nerve cells by burning them or using an iv to release a chemical that would naturally shut down nerve cells without the addictiveness or the constant Need for it.



                                                                                                
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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by restonme on Sat 6 Jul 2013 - 4:27

does anybody know of a Website where i can try to Isolate a  compund based on what it can do to the human body  or mind. i´ve been looking for a database with Information to "develop" a compound like that used in gunslinger Girl and one that i would use ideally.
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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by crazyidiot78 on Sun 7 Jul 2013 - 7:59

You could try web md or one of the medical sights bust most of the ones you'd want need subscriptions to see the good stuff and might be more scientific then you'd like (I don't know your background so the extent of this problem is up for debate)
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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Il Direttore on Sun 7 Jul 2013 - 11:28

@restonme wrote:does anybody know of a Website where i can try to Isolate a  compund based on what it can do to the human body  or mind. i´ve been looking for a database with Information to "develop" a compound like that used in gunslinger Girl and one that i would use ideally.

If this is for a fic or an OC, I would stop now and not worry about it. The narrative use of the conditioning drug does not revolve around the specific compounds, but rather its effects. If you're spending a lot of time discussing the gritty details, you're probably doing it wrong.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 7 Jul 2013 - 18:19

@restonme wrote:does anybody know of a Website where i can try to Isolate a  compund based on what it can do to the human body  or mind. i´ve been looking for a database with Information to "develop" a compound like that used in gunslinger Girl and one that i would use ideally.

 Just wing it, dude. A fanfic doesn't require that level of detail.

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Re: What really is in the Conditioning meds?

Post by maverick375 on Sun 7 Jul 2013 - 22:05

The secret ingredient in the conditioning meds? It's pretty obvious when you think about it.

PEZ. Strawberry flavored PEZ.

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