Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by ChaosKin640 on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 0:04

There are a few problems I see with this video in comparison to ch2 of the manga, which you are comparing it too. First off, there was a good 2-3 feet of space between Rico and Emilio, putting him outside of reach of her gun.

Second of all, Rico's enhanced senses would allow her to react fast enough to shoot and kill him before he could close the distance and attempt to disarm her.

Now, the argument can be made that, had Emilio reacted withing the first couple of seconds, before Rico had time to process the situation, he could have potentially succeeded in disarming her. But then she would have been in melee range, where her superior strength and speed would have won out. The discussion here, however, is defending yourself against an SWA cyborg sent specifically to kill you, so that brief moment of catching the cyborg off guard wouldn't exist in the first place.

Some of you may argue further that, as Treila's fight against Pino showed, even while they are on high-alert "mission-mode", they can still be surprised if an opponent takes the initiative in an encounter. But what you may not take into consideration is that, after their fight, the agency immediately recognized that flaw in the girls' training and took steps to remedy it. Just because Triela is the only girl we see undergoing extra CQC training with Major Sales and his boys, doesn't mean that the other girls, and all subsequent girls, don't undergo the same training.

Personally, it is my belief that, if you allow an agency cyborg to get that close to you, you're dead. Period. Unless you're packing military-grade hardware and you have a dozen-or-so buddies around you backing you up, the chances of you surviving are virtually nil. The only way I see as someone being able to live is with advanced warning, and then being able to pick the girl off at a distance with a high-calibre sniper rifle. Or, if you REALLY want to make sure she's dead, call in a tacticle nuclear strike. Nuke
That should do the trick.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by MP5 on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 0:22

@ChaosKin640 wrote:... Or, if you REALLY want to make sure she's dead, call in a tacticle nuclear strike. Nuke
That should do the trick.

"Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by ChaosKin640 on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 0:28

Hey, its what the council does in my OC universe when they really want to make sure they got all those nasty demons crawling around in the surface. Orbital blockade and complete planetray bombardment. Liquify the crust and collapse the core until all that's left is a chunk of moltan slag.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 0:36

Glassing a planet is a time-honored way to ensure victory.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by ChaosKin640 on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 1:39

Alternatively, you can always use some form of singularity weapon to implode the sytem's star in order to create a black hole. But given the nature of the pseudo-science I use in my OC universe, that can potentially open up a whole new can of worms, as blackholes can function as interdimentional gateways and potentially allow the demonic infection to spread to other realms, which would kind of defeat the whole purpose of the exercise. But I think we're being to digress away from the original point of the discussion here.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Alfisti on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 3:29

@Kiskaloo wrote:Glassing a planet is a time-honored way to ensure victory.
I've always been a fan of the Honor-verse kenetic strike, don't even bother arming the warheads, just crash missiles into the planet at high-C velocities... mildly illegal by interstallar law mind you (except under certain circumstances, namely "the people on the ground are too stupid to surrender").

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Schaschanist on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 4:11

I would like to remind you about this scene from the Manga (Ch. 82):



To be fair, she used her raw cyborg power in rage.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Lyndist on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 11:05

edit


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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 16:19

@Nachtsider wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:You sure about that?
Dude, don't bother. If he won't believe you about real-life issues like RPGs being used to down choppers, I don't see any future in convincing him about fictional matters.
True That.

@ChaosKin640 wrote:There are a few problems I see with this video in comparison to ch2 of the manga, which you are comparing it too. First off, there was a good 2-3 feet of space between Rico and Emilio, putting him outside of reach of her gun.

Second of all, Rico's enhanced senses would allow her to react fast enough to shoot and kill him before he could close the distance and attempt to disarm her.

Now, the argument can be made that, had Emilio reacted withing the first couple of seconds, before Rico had time to process the situation, he could have potentially succeeded in disarming her. But then she would have been in melee range, where her superior strength and speed would have won out. The discussion here, however, is defending yourself against an SWA cyborg sent specifically to kill you, so that brief moment of catching the cyborg off guard wouldn't exist in the first place.
You got that right, ChaosKin...

@ChaosKin640 wrote:Some of you may argue further that, as Treila's fight against Pino showed, even while they are on high-alert "mission-mode", they can still be surprised if an opponent takes the initiative in an encounter. But what you may not take into consideration is that, after their fight, the agency immediately recognized that flaw in the girls' training and took steps to remedy it. Just because Triela is the only girl we see undergoing extra CQC training with Major Sales and his boys, doesn't mean that the other girls, and all subsequent girls, don't undergo the same training.

Personally, it is my belief that, if you allow an agency cyborg to get that close to you, you're dead. Period. Unless you're packing military-grade hardware and you have a dozen-or-so buddies around you backing you up, the chances of you surviving are virtually nil. The only way I see as someone being able to live is with advanced warning, and then being able to pick the girl off at a distance with a high-calibre sniper rifle. Or, if you REALLY want to make sure she's dead, call in a tacticle nuclear strike. Nuke
That should do the trick.
The problem with Triela's defeat by Pino in the first battle was that Hillshire ordered her not to kill them as they were to be rought in for questioning. Even with her falling from Pino's punch, she had the shotgun right at him, pull the trigger, he's dead. But she was ordered not to kill. Therefore she went into a conflict of orders failure and lost the fight because of that. If she was not so heavily restrained by such an order, the first time she shot in the room would have kill Frano or Pino, followed more shots being fired and the three of them being dead.

This is not a lost on her part but a failure of programming made her lose. Otherwise, she would have killed them all without impunity.

@lyndist wrote:First. I say we only use what we have-as a veteran, I can borrow weapons in barracks
They would not chase you into the barracks.

@lyndist wrote:At first I only used the weapons that I have,at home (SKS rifle ) . but with this situation I need more weapon to fight

I was an infantryman, not a Special Force soldier . So I choose something that I am most familiar: AK-47 MKIII with bayonet , Makarov pistol and Grenades .
You would have to get to them, meanwhile they just busted down your door while you sitting down in your t-shirt and underwear poking your bowl of rice and pork with a set of chopsticks.

@lyndist wrote:I have not played a game , I do not know PIA
You do not know what you are missing.

@lyndist wrote:Angie:

1/ The explosion is not as dangerous as people think

Angie handler only minor injuries and she is still alive after the explosion

Campaign in the Venice: three claymore mines blowing two cyborg, two or three soldiers with riot shields

Compared with a car bomb, I think it is not even kill a person standing near it (Angie handler)

2/ Angie attacked eight people when they are resting and not defensive

She's moving in the woods and suddenly come out.

I can also do the same
Like I said, they will pick you off when you are a the least vulnerable.

As for claymores vs. truck bombs, you stand in front of each at 50ft and tell me which hurts more.

@lyndist wrote:I don't want confrontation with Triela (Or any of the second generation)

They have matured, more dangerous

But with a 1st generation, despite their strengths, they are still children.In a gun battle, they have the advantage of speed and cover

But in the melee. Their hands and feet hardly touch the enemy using long weapon (such as rifles attached bayonets)-Angie still can be stabbed with a knife

If she can hit me: I might be dead. But if I hit her first-she will die

About Rico, she was too slow - if she in a melee (not in a love scene like that) - she will receive a punch in the face
Angie was cut at the wrist parrying a knife away and was still able to subdue 2 military agents with more training than you.

Rico beat the crap out of some crooked politican, lifting him up out of his chair, throwing him across the room and pummel him like an angry chef tenderizing some hard beef and she was only being nice because Jean wanted him alive. She also went up behind a crooked military officer in the theater and broke his neck with such skill that his date did not know what happened next to her!

In short, you would not be able to anything against them. If you throw a punch at them, they'll grab you by the wrist, pull your arm off the shoulder socket, rip the arm off the socket and beat you over the head with the bloody stump. You shoot them, you only anger them. You stab them, no way on earth you are going to survive that. A punch to the face, Rico had a bullet bounce off her skull and she fired back at the one who fired at her, killing him. You think a punch to the face will do anything? With orders to kill you, if you got off giving one of them a punch to the face, that is the only score you are going to get.

@st_frantic wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:They don't need to be skilled. They're significantly stronger than you and they can absorb significantly more damage. They can take most damage you can deliver hand to hand, and they will deliver hand to hand damage you can't take.

If the cyborgs are really there to kill you, they will succeed. But if you're in a wrong place, wrong time situation like Emilio in chapter 2, you may have a chance to survive it. In Krav Maga, we train these situations a lot:



In my opinion it is nearly a similar situation in chapter 2 as shown in the video (please correct me if i'm wrong^^)
OK. Lets supposed that you get your hands on the cyborg's gun. You wont be able to take it away because they are at least 10 times stronger than you are. Your grip might be able to move the gun away from you, their grip have been known to breake bones and bend steel framing.

So you're standing there with you holding their gun, pointed at you at point blank range using some Krav Maga manuever to disarm them and you find out that the gun is not budging. You can use both hands, put your feet on the cyborg's chest for leverage, that gun is not coming out of that cyborg's hand. And while you are doing all this, the cyborg pulls the trigger. *BANG!* You're dead, if you're lucky.

This require non hand to hand confrontational skills to deal with a cyborg. Up close and personal will only get you killed. You need to have quicker reflexes and a better aim at the draw to either disarm that cyborg, destroy its weapon of kill the cyborg with that 10000000 to 1 shot in the eye. Nothing else will do you.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Lyndist on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 21:57

EDIT


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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Nachtsider on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 22:22

@lyndist wrote:If the girls are too close to me, I will stab with the bayonet. Aim for the neck or abdomen.
Good luck being fast enough. Even if you are, I doubt the amount of damage you'll inflict would be enough to stop them. I'd be more inclined to side with you if you say you'd engage them from 200+ meters away with an anti-material sniper rifle.

The bottom line that people need to realize is there is slim, slim hope of besting a cyborg in conventional combat (i.e. hand to hand battle or a close-range shootout on account of their superhuman capabilities. People therefore need to think out of the box. As much as I dislike Dante, I have to admit he's doing it right.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Lyndist on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 23:36

EDIT


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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 1 Apr 2011 - 0:03

Hilarity will ensue.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by ACH on Fri 1 Apr 2011 - 1:18

I am useless at melee.. Perhaps the only thing I can use properly with even the slightest amount of skill is a Spear or Lance or any similar Pole-arm..


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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Alfisti on Fri 1 Apr 2011 - 3:32

@Nachtsider wrote:Hilarity will ensue.
I fully call dibs on running the book for this one...

...all money earned will go toward paying for the awesome meal I intend to have in the three hours between be being warned of imminent cyborg-induced death and actual cyborg induced death.

I've decided running away would be waaay too much effort. I'd prefer to stick with my original dying plan which is to go out well fed and drunk.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by MP5 on Fri 1 Apr 2011 - 6:31

@Alfisti wrote:
@Nachtsider wrote:Hilarity will ensue.
I fully call dibs on running the book for this one...

...all money earned will go toward paying for the awesome meal I intend to have in the three hours between be being warned of imminent cyborg-induced death and actual cyborg induced death.

I've decided running away would be waaay too much effort. I'd prefer to stick with my original dying plan which is to go out well fed and drunk.

Sounds like a plan, indeed.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Officer_Charon on Fri 1 Apr 2011 - 20:29

Eat, drink and be merry, for tomo-*KNIFE*-URK. *Dead*

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Three Dog on Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 8:05

I would here a knock at the door. I go to the door, and die.
Honestly, I'd pretty screwed no matter which cyborg came after me. Unless it's Angleica when she can't move at all, I just might stand a chance then. Assuming she didn't bring a gun. To quote Dylan Morran: "My only hope would be to drown on of them in my own blood."
I've done a little karate and Ai-Ki-Do, but it would be no help (Again, assuming they left all thier bullets and anything that can be used as a projectile at home) the monet I try to punch or counter, the crush my arm in thier vice grip and proceed to crush my head like a melon. I got no delusions about surviving the encounter.
The best plan would be to do the same as everyone else: go get shit faced and die f***ing happy .

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by John_234 on Wed 27 Jun 2012 - 3:50

Interesting thing is, I once wrote a fiction with a fellow writer where one fratello was assigned to take out another which tried to escape. It just turned into a really intense gun battle.

What a lot of people don't consider with cyborgs is that brute strength isn't their primary strength. It's that they look like normal people who would have no business killing you. If a GSG cyborg killed me, they would plan it out in a way which would have no real solution. That doesn't mean I wouldn't try to survive, but it's not realistic to plan for a situation where your death is basically guaranteed.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Three Dog on Wed 27 Jun 2012 - 5:16

@John_234 wrote:Interesting thing is, I once wrote a fiction with a fellow writer where one fratello was assigned to take out another which tried to escape. It just turned into a really intense gun battle.

What a lot of people don't consider with cyborgs is that brute strength isn't their primary strength. It's that they look like normal people who would have no business killing you. If a GSG cyborg killed me, they would plan it out in a way which would have no real solution. That doesn't mean I wouldn't try to survive, but it's not realistic to plan for a situation where your death is basically guaranteed.
Four words, five syllables, twenty one letters: home-made nuclear device

As long as they know where you are, you're a dead man. I will admit, finding the resources to construct it is and will be difficult (plotonium being the most difficult of which, but I figure they could subsitute TNT for either C4, Semtex, or some other mouldable explosive); whether they are willing to go to that extreme to kill you, is also unlikely. However, it will garuntee the kill. Nuclear devices are also failry simple to make, and I'm asuming the cyborgs have a basic knowledge of atomic physics. I won't tell you how to make one though, because ASIO will come a knocking on my door and I'll disapear Wink.

BTW: don't take this to heart, it's a joke. Razz

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by John_234 on Wed 27 Jun 2012 - 6:06

Even if you weren't kidding, that would require carrying around the nuke without getting detected, ready to press that dead man's switch at a moment's notice. Same with conventional explosives...

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Three Dog on Wed 27 Jun 2012 - 7:46

@John_234 wrote:Even if you weren't kidding, that would require carrying around the nuke without getting detected, ready to press that dead man's switch at a moment's notice. Same with conventional explosives...
Planty of Government vans that nobody will ask questions about. You recal how the guy at the airport just let Jean and Rico through. Did he wonder why a government agent and a kid needed to get past all the security check, and that somthing must be pretty sus. Plas, you wouldn't need that much Pu, the 'Fat Man' dropped on Nagasaki only had a core of 9cm diamater and it's yield was 21 kilotons. Now, the design used back in '45 is considered fairly ineficent thses days, and I'm sure a technology trade or two could get the Agency the blueprints for some of the more modern and efficiant designs. Point is, they wouldn't need a kil switch or anything like that, just spot you on a CCTV camera, make sure the nuke is in the same block as you and... KABLAMO! Your shadow has been bunred into the ground, or if you are a bit further away, your lungs are now hanging out you mouth.

Doesn't matter though, 'cause if the Agency wants you gone, they aren't gonna nuke you. They'll step on your neck and shoot you in the head, becasue that's how they roll. It's fun discussing the prospect of small children nuking their creators though... I think I need to see a head doctor

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by John_234 on Wed 27 Jun 2012 - 19:39

EDIT: So, seeing as a cyborg got pwnt by a M18, you think booby traps are the way to go?

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