Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by rusty-spring on Mon 21 Mar 2011 - 18:55

If Laine was sent to hunt me down:

Rambo Rusty would pull out an RPG and blast the little hellion to oblivion, chain smoke a pack of cigarettes, then drive off in a monster truck. head bang

Real Rusty would get his ass kicked, and probably like it. Razz

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Schaschanist on Mon 21 Mar 2011 - 19:13

If i were in my OC-Universe at the place of Emiliano, i would embrace Emilie for the last time, say 'i love you' into her ears and give her the knife into the hand which she uses to kill.
You can't resist the sweet smile and lovely blue eyes of this girl...

In reality Emilie would kick my face into the wall before i can turn around for the try to flee and escape.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Lyndist on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 9:51

I just go home after three days in barracks

I think I should add:

We were warned by a member of the forums (at least 3 hours) that the SWA is sending an assassin (cute) to kill us

3 hours is too short to run away but enough to prepare


and we used only what we could reach

(Things like heavy machine guns, grenade launcher or rocket launcher guns - if you have or can borrow, it can be added)

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Lyndist on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 10:37

I have an SKS rifle - with 30 bullets and bayonets

2 kitchen knife

Although the Cyrbog very strong, but I'm not the type who easily defeated

1/ If they brought the first-generation cyrbog . They have power but small children - hands and feet can hardly touch the the opponent in a melee

in Vietnam it is difficult to carry weapons such as rifle or shotgun to be around. They can only use weapons like SMG or pistol. (If that is the day-night is different)

I will try to avoid a gun battle. SKS rifle too bad in a battle in the streets. I will try to defend the house with furniture and heavy wooden cabinets (My house is a furniture store)

I'll open a door (about 2 meters wide), create a battlefield large enough to use my SKS rifle with bayonet.

If they do not take the bait I will try to fight back by throwing fire bottles (Molotov Cocktail) forming a fire wall and back on defense

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 10:45

@lyndist wrote:If they brought the first-generation cyrbog . They have power but small children - hands and feet can hardly touch the the opponent in a melee

in Vietnam it is difficult to carry weapons such as rifle or shotgun to be around. They can only use weapons like SMG or pistol. (If that is the day-night is different)
It doesn't really matter, them being small. If one of them so much as grabs your hand or your foot, it's over. You'll end up flying across the room in no time.

And as for the rifles and shotguns thing? That's what they have their violin cases for, and that's why they look like children. No one will pay a child with a violin case a second glance.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Lyndist on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 11:01

If they can grasp

I brought two kitchen knife

They sharp, hard and heavy. I practiced a lot on how to use knives and bayonets in the melee. I am confident enough to fight back a Cyrbog

And I say that in Vietnam. Travelers with a violin cases will make people suspicious

If it is night, things would be different.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Schaschanist on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 11:05

@Nachtsider wrote:And as for the rifles and shotguns thing? That's what they have their violin cases for, and that's why they look like children. No one will pay a child with a violin case a second glance.
Why (all of) you always are this fixed on violin (or other instrument) cases?

You see inconspicuous a girl in a skirt but what you can not see is her weapon:

How will you defend yourself against a innocent looking girl that walks next to you and suddenly pulls out spikes and rams them into your head, heart or guts?

It doesn't only need guns to kill somebody, a real assassin kills you with bare hands or knifes and is inconspicuous until she close enough to you!

That's why my Emilie is so dangerous, she appears like a innocent 13 years old girl untill she is close enough to you and rams her knife or spikes into you or kicks your face away.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Lyndist on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 11:14

@lyndist wrote:I just go home after three days in barracks

I think I should add:

We were warned by a member of the forums (at least 3 hours) that the SWA is sending an assassin (cute) to kill us

3 hours is too short to run away but enough to prepare


and we used only what we could reach

(Things like heavy machine guns, grenade launcher or rocket launcher guns - if you have or can borrow, it can be added)

Read this yet?

If I - I would stay away from all pretty girls Embarassed

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 11:53

@schaschanist wrote:Why (all of) you always are this fixed on violin (or other instrument) cases?

It doesn't only need guns to kill somebody, a real assassin kills you with bare hands or knifes and is inconspicuous until she close enough to you!
Dude, calm down. It's just an example. I'm sure the cyborgs can kill us with forks and spoons if they so wish.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Schaschanist on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 12:17

@Nachtsider wrote:
@schaschanist wrote:Why (all of) you always are this fixed on violin (or other instrument) cases?

It doesn't only need guns to kill somebody, a real assassin kills you with bare hands or knifes and is inconspicuous until she close enough to you!
Dude, calm down. It's just an example. I'm sure the cyborgs can kill us with forks and spoons if they so wish.
In Emilie#s case:. possible.
She's specialized for killing with knives therefore it make no difference to her to use spoons or forks instead of knifes.
And remember the classic piano/strangulation wire, best friend of such a kind of killer.

But, this with the violin case, i said it cause there are so many only thinking in that way, but what about the ones who usually kills with tools (wire, knife, spoon, fork, etc.)? They are the bigger thread for you...
They can get closer to the target and the target doesn't notice the assassin in his near untill he's dead.
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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by ElfenMagix on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 16:06

@Nachtsider wrote:
@schaschanist wrote:Why (all of) you always are this fixed on violin (or other instrument) cases?

It doesn't only need guns to kill somebody, a real assassin kills you with bare hands or knifes and is inconspicuous until she close enough to you!
Dude, calm down. It's just an example. I'm sure the cyborgs can kill us with forks and spoons if they so wish.
Its been said in Canon, you can send the girls to kill with a bible.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Schaschanist on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 16:19

@ElfenMagix wrote:Its been said in Canon, you can send the girls to kill with a bible.
"The Bible is a mighty sword." Now this statement gets a complete new meaning!
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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by SPARTAN 119 on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 18:07

Under the conditions lyndist gave us, the only option I have (apart from dying) is homemade EMP + tanto to the eyes.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Awinnell on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 18:08

flamethrower

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 18:11

@Awinnell wrote:flamethrower
Heavy, fragile fuel tanks + going up against opponents with speedy reflexes = bad combo

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by SPARTAN 119 on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 18:14

@Awinnell wrote:flamethrower

If you had access to a military-grade flamethrower it might work if you don't get shot in the fuel tanks, but I'm not sure if a homemade flamethrower would work. Although, that does bring up an interesting question: is the whatever the cyborgs are made of flammable? If it is, a molotov might work.

And, for a pure dumb luck kill, Emilie's shuriken reminded me of something:




My tanto has a couple of spike shuriken in the hilt. I suppose I could try and throw one at the cyborg and try and hit her in the eye if she gets close enough. Still, I'm by no means the best shot with them, so I would have to be VERY lucky for it to go through the eye at just the right angle for it to go into the hole in the skull for the optic nerve, and into the brain.
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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Schaschanist on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 18:24

@Nachtsider wrote:
@Awinnell wrote:flamethrower
Heavy, fragile fuel tanks + going up against opponents with speedy reflexes = bad combo
Hairspray + Lighter = light flamethrower
Not as good as a military version but it gives you a few seconds of advantage to flee.
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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Officer_Charon on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 19:18

So now you have something with the reflexes of a chipped cheetah attacking you, ignoring/overcoming pain, and now it's _on fire_.

Enjoy your home becoming a conflagration. *wry grin*

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Lyndist on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 20:53

Fire Extinguisher and gas cylinders

they are very big explosion and available around my area - I Can disguise them in cardboard boxes and placed around-shot at and they will explode

A fire extinguisher to put out the fire if the fire spread into the house and used to spray blinding if necessary

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 22 Mar 2011 - 22:10

@SPARTAN 119 wrote:Although, that does bring up an interesting question: is the whatever the cyborgs are made of flammable?

In general, CFRP is flamable (the resin, at least). Not sure about the artifical skin on the girls.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Alfisti on Wed 23 Mar 2011 - 6:05

@Officer_Charon wrote:So now you have something with the reflexes of a chipped cheetah attacking you, ignoring/overcoming pain, and now it's _on fire_.
Hey, it's a perfectly valid form or self defence...



We were warned by a member of the forums (at least 3 hours) that the SWA is sending an assassin (cute) to kill us

3 hours is too short to run away but enough to prepare
You'd be amazed how much ground I can cover in three hours given suitable motivation.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Awinnell on Wed 23 Mar 2011 - 15:38


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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by SPARTAN 119 on Wed 23 Mar 2011 - 20:03

@Awinnell wrote:

Between that poster and your avatar, I am now having visions of what would happen if Petra ever found out Sandro was cheating on her.
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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 23 Mar 2011 - 20:12

Honestly, I don't know if Petra's the jealous type. The way I see it, if she found out Sandro was cheating on her, she'd tackle the problem by learning more awesome bedroom moves to lure him back.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Lyndist on Wed 23 Mar 2011 - 20:38

@Nachtsider wrote:Honestly, I don't know if Petra's the jealous type. The way I see it, if she found out Sandro was cheating on her, she'd tackle the problem by learning more awesome bedroom moves to lure him back.

head bang

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Schaschanist on Wed 23 Mar 2011 - 21:33

@Nachtsider wrote:Honestly, I don't know if Petra's the jealous type. The way I see it, if she found out Sandro was cheating on her, she'd tackle the problem by learning more awesome bedroom moves to lure him back.
Now i only can be mean:
The best present/gift for Petra absolutely is the 'Kamasutra'. Evil

*ducks and runs away as fast as possible*
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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by MP5 on Wed 23 Mar 2011 - 21:34

@Nachtsider wrote:Honestly, I don't know if Petra's the jealous type. The way I see it, if she found out Sandro was cheating on her, she'd tackle the problem by learning more awesome bedroom moves to lure him back.

...Which she'll be practicing with Charlie in TTSC soon enough.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by tremec6speed on Wed 23 Mar 2011 - 23:57

just three short hours eh?
hmm... I wonder if wiki has a 'how to make your very own ED209 kit'?
HELEN: 'That's it no more excuses, this butt nutt's mine.'
(as the door opens she hears it roar: 'you have 10 seconds to drop your gun')
HELEN: eep!
ME: 'one cyborg shish kebab comin' up!'
head bang


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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 24 Mar 2011 - 0:59

@schaschanist wrote:
@Nachtsider wrote:Honestly, I don't know if Petra's the jealous type. The way I see it, if she found out Sandro was cheating on her, she'd tackle the problem by learning more awesome bedroom moves to lure him back.
Now i only can be mean:
The best present/gift for Petra absolutely is the 'Kamasutra'. Evil

*ducks and runs away as fast as possible*
Nope. 'Sandro read it cover to cover when he had to infiltrate an Indian Restaurant and order a Chicken Vindaloos and a Garlic Nan with a diet coke.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Lyndist on Thu 24 Mar 2011 - 10:09

We've gone too far .Let return to topics


Last edited by Lyndist on Thu 25 Aug 2016 - 0:47; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by st_frantic on Thu 24 Mar 2011 - 10:54

I am pretty good in martial arts (practising Wing Chun and Krav Maga for many years), so I would try to fight for my life Very Happy
Better to die during a fight than to get shot in the back while you're running away...
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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 24 Mar 2011 - 17:38

@st_frantic wrote:I am pretty good in martial arts (practising Wing Chun and Krav Maga for many years), so I would try to fight for my life Very Happy
Better to die during a fight than to get shot in the back while you're running away...
Though fighting would give a better outcome, if this was YOUR cyborg, it can be dealt with in other ways.

Triela's fight with Pino shows that one who has some martial arts skill would be capable of winning in a hand to hand fight with a cyborg. But as Alfisti has shown, they may not be coming unarmed...

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Nachtsider on Thu 24 Mar 2011 - 17:49

I still boggle, trying to comprehend how Pino managed to circumvent Triela's superhuman speed.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 24 Mar 2011 - 17:54

Perhaps in such close quarters Triela could not leverage her speed. It seemed to be down more to reflexes and Pino's were well-honed, as well.

Then again, since Pino had to beat her in their first contact and last long enough in her second to make her victory feel "legitimate" , Author's Prerogative no doubt played a role.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Schaschanist on Thu 24 Mar 2011 - 18:06

Superhuman Strength or Superhuman Speed are useless if your fighting skills are worser than the skills of you Opponent.

I can remember that Triela had a training in hand-to-hand fighting after the first meeting with Pino.
Think about that.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by tremec6speed on Thu 24 Mar 2011 - 22:33

ok just a thought Puzzled


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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by tremec6speed on Thu 24 Mar 2011 - 22:49

The way I read the story, it seemed like Triela knew how to fight well as taught by Hilshire,
(I'm thinking of the scene where Triela takes on a guy with a knife and brings him down quick) but Pinocchio is in another level which would explain the need to bring in elite soldiers to train her further.
So the regular joe or jane probably cannot take on a cyborg but a great fighter might depending on how well the mechanical child has been trained.
So perhaps those among us who feel they are in Pino's league might prevail unless the cyborg has herself been trained great, then who knows.
Nachtsider mentioned the superhuman speed of the cyborgs and that's an interesting subject.
I don't know just how fast their cyborg speed is, but perhaps if the trainer doesn't take into account the possibility that one day their weapon may encounter a very good fighter, then
maybe the kid fighter might make a mistake like throwing her shoulder when she launches a punch, there by 'telegraphing' it and reducing somewhat the effectiveness of her speed.
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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Professor Voodoo on Thu 24 Mar 2011 - 22:50

@tremec6speed wrote:The way I read the story, it seemed like Triela knew how to fight well as taught by Hilshire,
Triela is certainly trained, but I don't think it was Hillshire's doing. There is plenty in canon to imply that he is not really a flighter...Europol considered him a public relations man. As a police officer he'd have some training of course but for instructing Triela (and all the 'borgs) in hand-to-hand fighting I'd guess Georgio & Amadeo were the go to guys.
So perhaps those among us who feel they are in Pino's league might prevail unless the cyborg has herself been trained great, then who knows.
Pinocchio got his training from the ex-CIA man "John Doe" and it was obviously some good instruction, but those skills took his entire lifetime to develop. He didn't go to school, he didn't have a normal life, he just trained.

Honestly, I don't think a single one of us on the forum have put that much effort in. We're screwed.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 25 Mar 2011 - 0:10

@Professor Voodoo wrote:
@tremec6speed wrote:The way I read the story, it seemed like Triela knew how to fight well as taught by Hilshire,
Triela is certainly trained, but I don't think it was Hillshire's doing. There is plenty in canon to imply that he is not really a flighter...Europol considered him a public relations man. As a police officer he'd have some training of course but for instructing Triela (and all the 'borgs) in hand-to-hand fighting I'd guess Georgio & Amadeo were the go to guys.
So perhaps those among us who feel they are in Pino's league might prevail unless the cyborg has herself been trained great, then who knows.
Pinocchio got his training from the ex-CIA man "John Doe" and it was obviously some good instruction, but those skills took his entire lifetime to develop. He didn't go to school, he didn't have a normal life, he just trained.

Honestly, I don't think a single one of us on the forum have put that much effort in. We're screwed.
Though John Doe taught him, I will say time and time again, that what the CIA and the US Military teaches in terms of Martial Arts is repeated 1 hit wonders. You hit your opponent hard enough and enough times, they will go down. They are not taught years of hitting and being hit and taking the pain to continue to fight as you go. Pino practiced until those move became second nature and done without thinking, but they were still minimal killer blows training at best. It is no better than what some women learn in a 6 week Anti-Rape defense course.

But because Pino was at the stage where he can act without thinking, he was able to beat Triela hands down because she was caught off guard and unable to make up for lost territory. She is fast, but she has to think about what she has to do, Pino does not, and therefore has an advantage over her.

As for me, like Danjo said it best, if it were my cyborgs, they would be easy to deal with and I would send them to other targets. If it was another cyborg, as rusted as my skills maybe and slow my aged reflexes are, I will do what I can to kick cyborg butt. Between the samurai blades, the archery kits and assorted hidden weapons in the house, there is not a corner I can jump into and grab something to defend myself with. Even the CO2 Fire Extinguisher in the kitchen has some melee value. In the end even Death will think about was this the right to do.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Schaschanist on Fri 25 Mar 2011 - 2:13

Etienne's and Emilie's speciality is close combat, therefore they are well trained in martial arts (various styles) and knife fighting and 'creative killing' (killing by using everything in your range).
And when there is nothing to do, then Emilie is there and practising her skills and reflexes.

If the SWA would had gotten Emilie earlier, then the fight with Pino would have been over alot quicker.


By the way, what effect does a Taser have on the Cyborg?
Anyone thought about this?


Last edited by schaschanist on Fri 25 Mar 2011 - 2:33; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 25 Mar 2011 - 2:31

I've sort of been contemplating that issue for some time myself, actually.

Remember what I said about an EMP possibly being capable of knocking out their cybernetics and leaving them helpless? Maybe a high enough electric charge could have the same effect. Not a taser, probably, but something more powerful.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Professor Voodoo on Fri 25 Mar 2011 - 2:43

@schaschanist wrote:what effect does a Taser have on the Cyborg?
Someone thought about this?
Unless the engineers have built in some special protection it might be more effective on a cyborg than a regular human, due to vulnerable electric circuitry.

Theory: A cyborg's internal framework might have "lightning rod" style protection built in to safely route any electrical shock to ground. Seems like a reasonable precaution.
If the SWA would had gotten Emilie earlier, then the fight with Pino would have been finished alot quicker.
I did something similar to that in one of my episodes, but I used it as on opportunity to humble my character.

Marisa runs into a highly skilled boy...a new Pinocchio in training perhaps...and defeats him, but just barely. She badly damages her leg in the fight, and suffers a loss of confidence when she considers how close she came to losing. In the next episode Mari makes a serious effort to get better, training with Triela.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 25 Mar 2011 - 3:07

What would most likely happen is the electrical impact would just melt the CFRP at the contact point.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 25 Mar 2011 - 3:25

Bah.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Lyndist on Fri 25 Mar 2011 - 10:54

At first. I believe I have at least degree Pino level

But I find myself being less equal him

He joins the killing activity in twelve year old

Using heavy weapons to ambush a ships in thirteen

In that age, I still shower with older sister in ​​neighbor Embarassed

He did not go to school, only training

But his opponent is the most powerful melee cybog : Triela

In all of the cyborg - only she use bayonet study

If I meet Triela - maybe I will die

But if the other cybog I absolutely can beat them

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 30 Mar 2011 - 16:42

@lyndist wrote:At first. I believe I have at least degree Pino level

But I find myself being less equal him

He joins the killing activity in twelve year old

Using heavy weapons to ambush a ships in thirteen

In that age, I still shower with older sister in ​​neighbor Embarassed

He did not go to school, only training

But his opponent is the most powerful melee cybog : Triela

In all of the cyborg - only she use bayonet study

If I meet Triela - maybe I will die

But if the other cybog I absolutely can beat them

You sure about that?
Lets take... Pia

According to the game... she was created at the same time Henrietta was and considered themselves sisters.
She is one of the smallest if not thee smallest of the cyborgs, but she carries the biggest gun out there the DEA .50 cal.
She uses everything that she can get and she is more deadlier with grendades and molotovs as she is with her gun.
She has beaten every cyborg out there, including Triela, hand down. Only Henrietta beats her and thats barely, as Pia hits her with a grenade but Henrietta was a meter away. They could have survived the blast but Henrietta barely survives the building collaspe on them, Pia does not- Game Over. Depending on her healthpoints at this point of the game, Henrietta does die too.

Lets take Angie
One of the smallest cyborgs and first prototype designs for the rest of them. She gets killed from her brain atrophying after an exploding garbage truck bomb incident. She survived the incident and managed to save her handler too. If an exploding truck bomb did not kill her, what can you do to her? She is also credited with one of the fastest most target kills- 8 bads guys in under 4 seconds (see first season amine). If 8 guys with guns could not touch her, what can you do?

If the cyborgs are coming to kill you, they will do so when you are at the most weakest. They will wait for your to make yourself vulernable and available and put a 9mm into your head. Thats the point here.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by st_frantic on Wed 30 Mar 2011 - 17:30

The key is to get close to your enemy. So close that he is not able to use any weapons he may have. Sure, Triela is skilled in marterial arts and she would defeat me but I don't think that the other first generation cyborgs are that skilled in hand-to-hand combat situations.
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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 30 Mar 2011 - 17:50

They don't need to be skilled. They're significantly stronger than you and they can absorb significantly more damage. They can take most damage you can deliver hand to hand, and they will deliver hand to hand damage you can't take.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 30 Mar 2011 - 18:07

@ElfenMagix wrote:You sure about that?
Dude, don't bother. If he won't believe you about real-life issues like RPGs being used to down choppers, I don't see any future in convincing him about fictional matters.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by st_frantic on Wed 30 Mar 2011 - 18:38

@Kiskaloo wrote:They don't need to be skilled. They're significantly stronger than you and they can absorb significantly more damage. They can take most damage you can deliver hand to hand, and they will deliver hand to hand damage you can't take.

If the cyborgs are really there to kill you, they will succeed. But if you're in a wrong place, wrong time situation like Emilio in chapter 2, you may have a chance to survive it. In Krav Maga, we train these situations a lot:



In my opinion it is nearly a similar situation in chapter 2 as shown in the video (please correct me if i'm wrong^^)
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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by ChaosKin640 on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 0:04

There are a few problems I see with this video in comparison to ch2 of the manga, which you are comparing it too. First off, there was a good 2-3 feet of space between Rico and Emilio, putting him outside of reach of her gun.

Second of all, Rico's enhanced senses would allow her to react fast enough to shoot and kill him before he could close the distance and attempt to disarm her.

Now, the argument can be made that, had Emilio reacted withing the first couple of seconds, before Rico had time to process the situation, he could have potentially succeeded in disarming her. But then she would have been in melee range, where her superior strength and speed would have won out. The discussion here, however, is defending yourself against an SWA cyborg sent specifically to kill you, so that brief moment of catching the cyborg off guard wouldn't exist in the first place.

Some of you may argue further that, as Treila's fight against Pino showed, even while they are on high-alert "mission-mode", they can still be surprised if an opponent takes the initiative in an encounter. But what you may not take into consideration is that, after their fight, the agency immediately recognized that flaw in the girls' training and took steps to remedy it. Just because Triela is the only girl we see undergoing extra CQC training with Major Sales and his boys, doesn't mean that the other girls, and all subsequent girls, don't undergo the same training.

Personally, it is my belief that, if you allow an agency cyborg to get that close to you, you're dead. Period. Unless you're packing military-grade hardware and you have a dozen-or-so buddies around you backing you up, the chances of you surviving are virtually nil. The only way I see as someone being able to live is with advanced warning, and then being able to pick the girl off at a distance with a high-calibre sniper rifle. Or, if you REALLY want to make sure she's dead, call in a tacticle nuclear strike. Nuke
That should do the trick.
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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by MP5 on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 0:22

@ChaosKin640 wrote:... Or, if you REALLY want to make sure she's dead, call in a tacticle nuclear strike. Nuke
That should do the trick.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by ChaosKin640 on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 0:28

Hey, its what the council does in my OC universe when they really want to make sure they got all those nasty demons crawling around in the surface. Orbital blockade and complete planetray bombardment. Liquify the crust and collapse the core until all that's left is a chunk of moltan slag.
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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 0:36

Glassing a planet is a time-honored way to ensure victory.

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by ChaosKin640 on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 1:39

Alternatively, you can always use some form of singularity weapon to implode the sytem's star in order to create a black hole. But given the nature of the pseudo-science I use in my OC universe, that can potentially open up a whole new can of worms, as blackholes can function as interdimentional gateways and potentially allow the demonic infection to spread to other realms, which would kind of defeat the whole purpose of the exercise. But I think we're being to digress away from the original point of the discussion here.
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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Alfisti on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 3:29

@Kiskaloo wrote:Glassing a planet is a time-honored way to ensure victory.
I've always been a fan of the Honor-verse kenetic strike, don't even bother arming the warheads, just crash missiles into the planet at high-C velocities... mildly illegal by interstallar law mind you (except under certain circumstances, namely "the people on the ground are too stupid to surrender").

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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Schaschanist on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 4:11

I would like to remind you about this scene from the Manga (Ch. 82):



To be fair, she used her raw cyborg power in rage.
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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by Lyndist on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 11:05

First. I say we only use what we have-as a veteran, I can borrow weapons in barracks

At first I only used the weapons that I have,at home (SKS rifle ) . but with this situation I need more weapon to fight

I was an infantryman, not a Special Force soldier . So I choose something that I am most familiar: AK-47 MKIII with bayonet , Makarov pistol and Grenades .

I have not played a game , I do not know PIA

Angie:

1/ The explosion is not as dangerous as people think

Angie handler only minor injuries and she is still alive after the explosion

Campaign in the Venice: three claymore mines blowing two cyborg, two or three soldiers with riot shields

Compared with a car bomb, I think it is not even kill a person standing near it (Angie handler)

2/ Angie attacked eight people when they are resting and not defensive

She's moving in the woods and suddenly come out.


I can also do the same

I don't want confrontation with Triela (Or any of the second generation)

They have matured, more dangerous

But with a 1st generation, despite their strengths, they are still children.In a gun battle, they have the advantage of speed and cover

But in the melee. Their hands and feet hardly touch the enemy using long weapon (such as rifles attached bayonets)-Angie still can be stabbed with a knife

If she can hit me: I might be dead. But if I hit her first-she will die

About Rico, she was too slow - if she in a melee (not in a love scene like that) - she will receive a punch in the face
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Re: Fight and defend ourselves against Cyrbog

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 31 Mar 2011 - 16:19

@Nachtsider wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:You sure about that?
Dude, don't bother. If he won't believe you about real-life issues like RPGs being used to down choppers, I don't see any future in convincing him about fictional matters.
True That.

@ChaosKin640 wrote:There are a few problems I see with this video in comparison to ch2 of the manga, which you are comparing it too. First off, there was a good 2-3 feet of space between Rico and Emilio, putting him outside of reach of her gun.

Second of all, Rico's enhanced senses would allow her to react fast enough to shoot and kill him before he could close the distance and attempt to disarm her.

Now, the argument can be made that, had Emilio reacted withing the first couple of seconds, before Rico had time to process the situation, he could have potentially succeeded in disarming her. But then she would have been in melee range, where her superior strength and speed would have won out. The discussion here, however, is defending yourself against an SWA cyborg sent specifically to kill you, so that brief moment of catching the cyborg off guard wouldn't exist in the first place.
You got that right, ChaosKin...

@ChaosKin640 wrote:Some of you may argue further that, as Treila's fight against Pino showed, even while they are on high-alert "mission-mode", they can still be surprised if an opponent takes the initiative in an encounter. But what you may not take into consideration is that, after their fight, the agency immediately recognized that flaw in the girls' training and took steps to remedy it. Just because Triela is the only girl we see undergoing extra CQC training with Major Sales and his boys, doesn't mean that the other girls, and all subsequent girls, don't undergo the same training.

Personally, it is my belief that, if you allow an agency cyborg to get that close to you, you're dead. Period. Unless you're packing military-grade hardware and you have a dozen-or-so buddies around you backing you up, the chances of you surviving are virtually nil. The only way I see as someone being able to live is with advanced warning, and then being able to pick the girl off at a distance with a high-calibre sniper rifle. Or, if you REALLY want to make sure she's dead, call in a tacticle nuclear strike. Nuke
That should do the trick.
The problem with Triela's defeat by Pino in the first battle was that Hillshire ordered her not to kill them as they were to be rought in for questioning. Even with her falling from Pino's punch, she had the shotgun right at him, pull the trigger, he's dead. But she was ordered not to kill. Therefore she went into a conflict of orders failure and lost the fight because of that. If she was not so heavily restrained by such an order, the first time she shot in the room would have kill Frano or Pino, followed more shots being fired and the three of them being dead.

This is not a lost on her part but a failure of programming made her lose. Otherwise, she would have killed them all without impunity.

@lyndist wrote:First. I say we only use what we have-as a veteran, I can borrow weapons in barracks
They would not chase you into the barracks.

@lyndist wrote:At first I only used the weapons that I have,at home (SKS rifle ) . but with this situation I need more weapon to fight

I was an infantryman, not a Special Force soldier . So I choose something that I am most familiar: AK-47 MKIII with bayonet , Makarov pistol and Grenades .
You would have to get to them, meanwhile they just busted down your door while you sitting down in your t-shirt and underwear poking your bowl of rice and pork with a set of chopsticks.

@lyndist wrote:I have not played a game , I do not know PIA
You do not know what you are missing.

@lyndist wrote:Angie:

1/ The explosion is not as dangerous as people think

Angie handler only minor injuries and she is still alive after the explosion

Campaign in the Venice: three claymore mines blowing two cyborg, two or three soldiers with riot shields

Compared with a car bomb, I think it is not even kill a person standing near it (Angie handler)

2/ Angie attacked eight people when they are resting and not defensive

She's moving in the woods and suddenly come out.

I can also do the same
Like I said, they will pick you off when you are a the least vulnerable.

As for claymores vs. truck bombs, you stand in front of each at 50ft and tell me which hurts more.

@lyndist wrote:I don't want confrontation with Triela (Or any of the second generation)

They have matured, more dangerous

But with a 1st generation, despite their strengths, they are still children.In a gun battle, they have the advantage of speed and cover

But in the melee. Their hands and feet hardly touch the enemy using long weapon (such as rifles attached bayonets)-Angie still can be stabbed with a knife

If she can hit me: I might be dead. But if I hit her first-she will die

About Rico, she was too slow - if she in a melee (not in a love scene like that) - she will receive a punch in the face
Angie was cut at the wrist parrying a knife away and was still able to subdue 2 military agents with more training than you.

Rico beat the crap out of some crooked politican, lifting him up out of his chair, throwing him across the room and pummel him like an angry chef tenderizing some hard beef and she was only being nice because Jean wanted him alive. She also went up behind a crooked military officer in the theater and broke his neck with such skill that his date did not know what happened next to her!

In short, you would not be able to anything against them. If you throw a punch at them, they'll grab you by the wrist, pull your arm off the shoulder socket, rip the arm off the socket and beat you over the head with the bloody stump. You shoot them, you only anger them. You stab them, no way on earth you are going to survive that. A punch to the face, Rico had a bullet bounce off her skull and she fired back at the one who fired at her, killing him. You think a punch to the face will do anything? With orders to kill you, if you got off giving one of them a punch to the face, that is the only score you are going to get.

@st_frantic wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:They don't need to be skilled. They're significantly stronger than you and they can absorb significantly more damage. They can take most damage you can deliver hand to hand, and they will deliver hand to hand damage you can't take.

If the cyborgs are really there to kill you, they will succeed. But if you're in a wrong place, wrong time situation like Emilio in chapter 2, you may have a chance to survive it. In Krav Maga, we train these situations a lot:



In my opinion it is nearly a similar situation in chapter 2 as shown in the video (please correct me if i'm wrong^^)
OK. Lets supposed that you get your hands on the cyborg's gun. You wont be able to take it away because they are at least 10 times stronger than you are. Your grip might be able to move the gun away from you, their grip have been known to breake bones and bend steel framing.

So you're standing there with you holding their gun, pointed at you at point blank range using some Krav Maga manuever to disarm them and you find out that the gun is not budging. You can use both hands, put your feet on the cyborg's chest for leverage, that gun is not coming out of that cyborg's hand. And while you are doing all this, the cyborg pulls the trigger. *BANG!* You're dead, if you're lucky.

This require non hand to hand confrontational skills to deal with a cyborg. Up close and personal will only get you killed. You need to have quicker reflexes and a better aim at the draw to either disarm that cyborg, destroy its weapon of kill the cyborg with that 10000000 to 1 shot in the eye. Nothing else will do you.

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