Fratello tactics

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Fratello tactics

Post by SPARTAN 119 on Thu 14 Apr 2011 - 18:57

An idea I had for an interesting cyborg/handler tactic. Instead of the handler usually only carrying a sidearm, I thought it would be interesting to have a trained sniper as a handler, with a cyborg equipped and trained in close to mid-range combat, having their cyborg assault a target directly, while the handler/sniper provides long range support and covering fire.

Your thoughts?
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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by maverick375 on Thu 14 Apr 2011 - 20:15

Michael covered Jamie for a short scene in my story.
The real issue is the level of autonomy in the cyborg. I don't think a first gen would fair well simply because they are so dependent on their handler. You never really see the younger ones working on their own initiative, only with the handler at least in direct communication to direct their general moves. The exception being Triela, who protected and "plotted" with Mario on her own.
Second gens are are older and smarter, in general, and therefore more capable of formulating plans on the fly, something very critical to close quarters combat and operating alone or separate from a controller. Even then, in my story, Jamie's enthusiasm and over-confidence left her vulnerable outside of Michael's control.

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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 14 Apr 2011 - 20:53

I am considering making Michele a spotter for Kara when she's sniping. But in general, she's designed and built for combat and Michele isn't. Smile

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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by Nachtsider on Thu 14 Apr 2011 - 20:56

maverick375 wrote:The real issue is the level of autonomy in the cyborg. I don't think a first gen would fair well simply because they are so dependent on their handler. You never really see the younger ones working on their own initiative, only with the handler at least in direct communication to direct their general moves. The exception being Triela, who protected and "plotted" with Mario on her own.
Disagree. A few of the younger cyborgs showed that they were more than capable of performing adequately without their handlers by their sides. Elsa did this, and so did Angie.

If first-gen cyborgs' handlers would invest more time and effort to train their charges for independent action, I believe autonomous operators like Triela would be far more common.

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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by MP5 on Thu 14 Apr 2011 - 21:30

I have at least one fratello that operates with a high degree of autonomy. For this, one must look toward the Fitzgibbons Trio, composed of Jennifer, Kyo, and Ryo, in which the cyborgs of the fratello operate as an airborne-inserted sniper/spotter team whose misson decisions hinge primarily on Kyo and Ryo themselves-- Jennifer is primarily a pilot and serves more as mission control and Close Air Support, which hinders her from being directly 'boots on the ground' with Kyo and Ryo. As such, the two are designed from the get-go to operate relatively independently of their handler. However, because they also train as part of Warhawk Military Aviation, any mission that requires Kyo and/or Ryo's skills as a pilot generally has either cyborg operating more closely with the handler, who plays the role of flight leader while the cyborg(s) play the role of wingmen.


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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 14 Apr 2011 - 21:39

Nachtsider wrote:
maverick375 wrote:The real issue is the level of autonomy in the cyborg. I don't think a first gen would fair well simply because they are so dependent on their handler. You never really see the younger ones working on their own initiative, only with the handler at least in direct communication to direct their general moves. The exception being Triela, who protected and "plotted" with Mario on her own.
Disagree. A few of the younger cyborgs showed that they were more than capable of performing adequately without their handlers by their sides. Elsa did this, and so did Angie.

If first-gen cyborgs' handlers would invest more time and effort to train their charges for independent action, I believe autonomous operators like Triela would be far more common.
Nacht, I agree.

I'll even add that the cyborgs go into a mission mode, a pre-programmed set of directives and operations, in order to get the mission done. Only the handler can turn the cyborg mission mode on or off, and at times has been left on by accident (Jose telling Henrietta to learn her SiG and she does so through the night).

It is Mission Mode ON that makes Francesca from a what some consider a bumbling idiot to a Killer Cyborg that reveals any other. Mission Mode OFF turns her into the loving, caring, bumbling boob that she is.

But between Rachel and Francesca, Francesca is the truly independent cyborg. Give her her orders and send her on her way. Around Fernando, she will do like any other cyborg, but in the beginning of UN Resolution, she was running alone with Marco and Chief Lorenzo as her field contacts. She was doing great until the UN decided to take over the Italian Government for using children as soldiers.

Rachel acts like any other cyborg, more so in Mission Mode ON. Fernando has her as independent as possible, and during the Coliseum Riots in Solution Resolution, Fernando set her with Francesca on their way to go after anyone that deems themselves as a threat. Together they set a high score of kills doing their job.

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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by Odon on Fri 15 Apr 2011 - 1:17

Brings to mind that scene in The Long Kiss Goodnight when Geena Davies' character (with a silenced sniper rifle and headset radio) is guiding Samuel L. Jackson (armed with a pistol and the other headset) to attack the bad guys base. She's both telling him which direction to look and also shooting the bad guys who try to attack him.

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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 15 Apr 2011 - 1:31

Odon wrote:Brings to mind that scene in The Long Kiss Goodnight when Geena Davies' character (with a silenced sniper rifle and headset radio) is guiding Samuel L. Jackson (armed with a pistol and the other headset) to attack the bad guys base. She's both telling him which direction to look and also shooting the bad guys who try to attack him.
So who's the cyborg, Samuel L. Jackson or Geena Davies?

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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by Professor Voodoo on Fri 15 Apr 2011 - 1:52

As I understand it (maybe someone can go into better detail than I) modern snipers tend to work in 2-person teams...one will use the long-range weapon, the other in the spotter role. It is the spotter's responsibility to protect the sniper, and might carry a shorter range weapon to engage targets up close.
SPARTAN 119 wrote: I thought it would be interesting to have a trained sniper as a handler, with a cyborg equipped and trained in close to mid-range combat, having their cyborg assault a target directly, while the handler/sniper provides long range support and covering fire.
It might not be exactly what you're referring to, but in my primary OC fratello the handler does fill the sniper role...but only because his girl is a lousy sniper.
So far its only come into play in one story. Elio has to clear a roof of guards before Marisa and Kiskaloo's Kara can climb up and enter the warehouse through a skylight.

Regardless of this arrangement Marisa is still under orders to put in at least one practice session a week with a sniper rifle in order to keep her qualifications up to date.


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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 15 Apr 2011 - 2:11

Professor Voodoo wrote:As I understand it (maybe someone can go into better detail than I) modern snipers tend to work in 2-person teams...one will the long-range weapon, the other in the spotter role. It is the spotter's responsibility to protect the sniper, and might carry a shorter range weapon to engage targets up close.
That's the ideal arrangement. On many an occasion, however, the spotter becomes a luxury.

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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by Alfisti on Fri 15 Apr 2011 - 7:06

It's certainly sounds like a tactic that could warrant investigation. You'd need an at least resonably independent cyborg of course, and probably a handler who was good at multi-tasking (maybe a job for a sorello rather than a fratello ). As Voodoo pointed out, something similar has already happened with Marisa and Elio... so taking that concept further wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

It is quite a specialist sounding tactic though, so probably wouldn't be suitable as a primary role. However, as a trick that could be pulled out from time to time...

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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by Odon on Sat 16 Apr 2011 - 0:30

If there's a problem it's that the girl isn't close enough to protect her handler. What if someone sneaks up on him while he's peering through the scope? You'll need to have some sort of booby trap/ warning device behind him. Also, what happens when the girl goes out of the line of fire, e.g. enters a building? The sniper will have to shift his position, thus giving himself away.

I'm not saying this tactic can't be used, but you have to think of all the What Could Go Wrong things first, and figure out how the fratello would handle them.

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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by Alfisti on Sat 16 Apr 2011 - 0:34

Odon wrote:If there's a problem it's that the girl isn't close enough to protect her handler. What if someone sneaks up on him while he's peering through the scope? You'll need to have some sort of booby trap/ warning device behind him. Also, what happens when the girl goes out of the line of fire, e.g. enters a building? The sniper will have to shift his position, thus giving himself away.
As I said: I think it'd be a specialization brought out from time to time rather than a primary role. Actually, to be honest it'd probably be better suited to multi-fratello operations, with one handler watching the back of the other. Again though, you run into the handler-cyborg seperation issue.

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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 16 Apr 2011 - 2:00

Odon wrote:If there's a problem it's that the girl isn't close enough to protect her handler. What if someone sneaks up on him while he's peering through the scope? You'll need to have some sort of booby trap/ warning device behind him. Also, what happens when the girl goes out of the line of fire, e.g. enters a building? The sniper will have to shift his position, thus giving himself away.

I'm not saying this tactic can't be used, but you have to think of all the What Could Go Wrong things first, and figure out how the fratello would handle them.
Any handler who sends his cyborg out knows that he is taking a chance that he has to defend himself for himself. The cyborg's main actions is not to protect the handler, it is lower on the list of priorities; Killing Padania and following orders comes first.

In truth, a cyborg can never truly and effectively protect their handlers. If somebody wants them the handler dead, he will be killed. Francesca was right next to her handler Felix in the passenger seat of their Alfa Romero Spyder as he drove them home when a bullet entered through the back of his head... Mind you, she was right next to him and he still got killed. That says that it is not possible for a cyborg to protect their handler. The handler has to be smart enough and capable enough to do the job himself if he has to, sending hit cyborg to do the kill is only because they cant get their hands dirty. Thus then the cyborg is out doing the mission, the handler must be on his guard to take care of himself. Lauro (in the anime) hid in his LandRover Discovery II in some side street blocks away from the action. Rabello sent Claes on her own to deal with subway punks as he waited at the subway's entrance.

So things are not as they can be. Only intelligence and ability can solve such problems. Handlers have to be smarter and more capable then the cyborgs their train. They have too. They are the cyborg's teachers.

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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by Odon on Sun 17 Apr 2011 - 23:34

It's just that a big emphasis has been put in canon on the cyborg's role being to protect their handler. That's why people whose disabilities would normally disqualify them from active service (Marco and Raballo) are members of Section Two.

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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by Alfisti on Mon 18 Apr 2011 - 3:31

ElfenMagix wrote:Handlers have to be smarter and more capable then the cyborgs their train.
I don't know if "capable" is the right word... more experienced/competent certainly. But it's going to be difficult for a regular human handler to beat his superpowered charge in the capability stakes. Wink

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Re: Fratello tactics

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 18 Apr 2011 - 3:48

Odon wrote:It's just that a big emphasis has been put in canon on the cyborg's role being to protect their handler. That's why people whose disabilities would normally disqualify them from active service (Marco and Raballo) are members of Section Two.
Marco and Raballo appear to be the exception, however. Most of the handlers are men who are perfectly sound in the physical department, if not above average.

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