dealing with the pain

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dealing with the pain

Post by sdp2501 on Fri 13 May 2011 - 17:29

say one of the girls gets hurt and the pain is more than they can take e.g nurve gas of for cyborgs what wuld u do... u wouldnt shoot them (jean would but he's and ASS...)

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 13 May 2011 - 17:30

The fact that they can't take the pain doesn't mean they can't be fixed.

I'll just haul them off to the repair bay and let the surgeons/techs work their magic.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by ChaosKin640 on Fri 13 May 2011 - 21:23

The generally held belief here, in regards to OC universes at least, is that an extra shot of Conditioning medication will send the girl's into an almost robotic "mission-mode" frame of mind that suppresses all emotions and almost completely deadens their sense of pain. So if some kind of chemical weapon were deployed against the cyborgs, that would be the reaction most handlers would probably take. Whether they would use that time to pull out to a safe zone and have the girl examined or have her push the attack, would be up to the individual handler.

If we're talking strictly canon and such extra dosing doesn't apply the above mention effects, then just as Nacht said, some way would be found to drag the girl to safety to be cared for/repaired as necessary. Each cyborg is a multimillion dollar investment that they aren't going to waste killing just because she's in a bit of pain, after all.
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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Robert Frazer on Fri 13 May 2011 - 21:31

Do cyborgs really feel pain in any significant way at all? They get a brief sharp stab of pain when being struck - more to inform the cyborg "you're taking fire here, make sure this gets a look at when you're done" than to actually suffer - but thanks to their conditioning it fades almost immediately. "I bleed red, but the pain goes away real fast".

I don't think that it's possible in normal circumstances for a cyborg to ever be incapacitated by pain - the whole point of cyborgs is that they're more durable and doughty than a standard fleshy soldier and can shrug off most combat injuries. If a cyborg was so badly damaged as to overcome the pain-block and feel it fully, she's probably already been blown in two anyway.


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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 13 May 2011 - 21:37

@Robert Frazer wrote:I don't think that it's possible in normal circumstances for a cyborg to ever be incapacitated by pain...

Triela in the Turin Arc is proof of that, IMO. Ditto with her being shot in Naples trying to protect Hilshire and Roberta and Rico at Venice and during the escape of Franco, Franca and Cristiano.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by ChaosKin640 on Fri 13 May 2011 - 21:58

This is all true. The idea of chemical weapons (i.e. nerve gas agents) does bring something new to the table however. A gunshot wound is a sharp, sudden shock of pain that the cyborgs' artificial systems + Condition can deal with. Chemical weapons, at least to my understanding and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, would inflict a lingering, pervasive pain that would put a constant strain on those systems for as long as the girl is within the weapon's field of effect. It certainly wouldn't incapacitate them right-off the way it would a regular human soldier without protective gear, but it might eventually bring them to their knees as they are slowly and steadily overwhelmed. The problem then becomes how long it would take to put them down. It's entirely possible that the girls could fight through, kill the baddies, and escape the gas cloud before the pain became truly crippling.
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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 13 May 2011 - 22:00

I've postulated previously that the girls are immune to most chemical/biological agents on account of the fact that their organs are artificial. You're free to debunk my theory, though - I'd heartily welcome any dissenting opinion, provided it has evidence to back it up.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 13 May 2011 - 22:17

In the current arc, Triela is still not incapacitated by pain despite the loss of a leg and other wounds she has taken.

In my Universe, I take some future technology and cite its origins to the SWA; primarily the 3WA's War Gland in some of their trouble consultants.

The War Gland, activated by the Adrenal Gland does to things: keeps pumping the Adrenal Gland fr more Adrenaline, and starts pumping artificial Serotonin and Morphine. This sets the individual into a hyper state of strength without feeling pain despite the injury they may have. At the same time they get into a mental state of invincibility during the battle.

Kei and Yuri have shown their capacities when under the influence of the War Gland. Least to say, their actions under the influence demonstrates what it can be done...

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 13 May 2011 - 22:43

@Nachtsider wrote:I've postulated previously that the girls are immune to most chemical/biological agents on account of the fact that their organs are artificial. You're free to debunk my theory, though - I'd heartily welcome any dissenting opinion, provided it has evidence to back it up.

I would imagine it depends on the type of agent. Those that affect the brain or neural network should be effective, since those parts are still biological. Blood agents would depend on what type of "blood" is flowing in the girl's veins.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by tremec6speed on Sat 14 May 2011 - 3:43

Hypnosis anyone?
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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Schaschanist on Sat 14 May 2011 - 18:06

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Nachtsider wrote:I've postulated previously that the girls are immune to most chemical/biological agents on account of the fact that their organs are artificial. You're free to debunk my theory, though - I'd heartily welcome any dissenting opinion, provided it has evidence to back it up.

I would imagine it depends on the type of agent. Those that affect the brain or neural network should be effective, since those parts are still biological. Blood agents would depend on what type of "blood" is flowing in the girl's veins.
Since the conditioning medication effects the brain and since we've seen the girls taking food and estrogen pills, I do believe that they react on biological/chemical weapons like all normal humans.
If I'm not wrong, we've seen the medic staff talking only about an artificial heart. Heart is the keyword there, it's an artificial replacement for an organic muscle that has only one function, to pump the blood through the body!
I don't believe there are more artificial organs replaced with artificial ones than the heart, simply cause it's too difficult to copy the function of natural organs.

Then i remind you of the Pinocchio-Arc. Triela got knocked-out by Pino and Hillshire asked if she had a concussion.
In another scene Triela had a hurting tummy.
They can feel much more pain than you expect and i do believe they can have headaches too.
Remember, they are not robot, they are bionic enhanced girls,
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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 14 May 2011 - 18:25

@schaschanist wrote:Since the conditioning medication effects the brain and since we've seen the girls taking food and estrogen pills...

I believe the "translators notes" that Claes was taking estrogen with her yogurt was an invention of the scanlator of Chapter 18. The original manga make no mention of it, best I can tell, nor does the ADV or Seven Seas translations.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by ChaosKin640 on Sun 15 May 2011 - 5:13

I should probably have remembered this, but chapter 3 has Triela suffering from menstrual cramps bad enough to have her doubled over in pain. She specifically mentions being in rather severe pain, with it getting worse as she thinks about it. And during her mission to track down Bossi, the cramps are bad enough to affect her ability to focus and concentrate. So clearly, YES, the girls do in fact feel pain.

Now then, I'm not a woman so I can't very well speak from experience, but I would postulate that the pain of a gunshot wound would be somewhat greater than the pain of menstrual cramps, at least on a moment-to-moment basis. If this is true, then it goes back to what I previously speculated: that is, the cyborgs are able to shrug off vast amounts of sudden, acute pain, but against lingering, chronic pain (which would obviously be the case with cramps), they have considerably less defense.
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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Schaschanist on Sun 15 May 2011 - 5:27

In fact they can have menstrual cramps, need to eat food and can get hungry, I only can repeat what I said before, they have normal, natural organs inside their body.
Only the heart is artificial.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by sdp2501 on Sun 15 May 2011 - 9:00

the way i see it its like numbing your body you feel the sharp stab then later on it kicks u in the......... face

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 15 May 2011 - 11:01

@schaschanist wrote:In fact they can have menstrual cramps, need to eat food and can get hungry, I only can repeat what I said before, they have normal, natural organs inside their body. Only the heart is artificial.

When the Technology/Medical branch staff are discussing the Generation 2 girls, one of the doctors notes "the organs will be artificial". Since they're using the plural, that means more than one. Now, it does not automatically mean all organs are artificial, since the doctor could be implying the same set of organs that are artificial in the Generation 1 girls will be artificial in the Generation 2, whatever those organs might be.

Within my OC universe, the girls have their original gastro-intestinal organs, as it strikes me as logical since they eat normal food. We know the heart is artificial from Chapter 18, and I could see things like the lungs, liver and kidneys also being artificial for improved performance.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 15 May 2011 - 16:08

I think lungs are a definite. And if these artificial lungs have an inbuilt filtering system... boom. Immunity to chemical weapons (well, the ones absorbed through the respiratory system, at any rate).

Note that sequence in volume three when the terrorists fire tear gas and rush the car. They wore respirators; Henrietta didn't need one.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 15 May 2011 - 21:04

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@schaschanist wrote:In fact they can have menstrual cramps, need to eat food and can get hungry, I only can repeat what I said before, they have normal, natural organs inside their body. Only the heart is artificial.

When the Technology/Medical branch staff are discussing the Generation 2 girls, one of the doctors notes "the organs will be artificial". Since they're using the plural, that means more than one. Now, it does not automatically mean all organs are artificial, since the doctor could be implying the same set of organs that are artificial in the Generation 1 girls will be artificial in the Generation 2, whatever those organs might be.

Within my OC universe, the girls have their original gastro-intestinal organs, as it strikes me as logical since they eat normal food. We know the heart is artificial from Chapter 18, and I could see things like the lungs, liver and kidneys also being artificial for improved performance.
I have explained it before on other threads as to why some organs are needed and not others. If one has a digestive tract, then they should have a Liver, Pancreas, Spleen, etc. That is a majority of organs outside of the heart and lungs. As for Triela's Uterus and Ovaries, there are certain hormones needed for girls to function normally, and I'm not talking about their periods.

I'm still out on the Heart. That picture in the manga and even the anime does not look like an artificial unit like an advanced Jarvik System would. We can argue that this is science fiction. Artificial lungs and kidneys are just too big at this stage of development and I believe that it is just nuero/muscular advancements have been made which the cyborgs have top priorities in.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Officer_Charon on Sun 15 May 2011 - 21:07

Split the difference? Natural organs shielded from external damage somehow? Sterile Kevlar (or similar material) woven into a flexible shell around vital organs like the liver, for example.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 15 May 2011 - 21:25

Think about it. Would a normal respiratory and cardiovascular system be able to sustain the superhuman feats of endurance frequently demanded of the girls?

Artificial heart and lungs make perfect sense.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 15 May 2011 - 21:46

@Nachtsider wrote:Think about it. Would a normal respiratory and cardiovascular system be able to sustain the superhuman feats of endurance frequently demanded of the girls?

Artificial heart and lungs make perfect sense.
Actually No.
The human mind holds back 90% of human strength we all have and only allow 10% to use. But Primitive Man has used such reserves for eons in hunting animals many times larger then himself. Today we see this in endurance and feats of strengths, an example I remember was a pregnant mother seeing her first child under a car and she lifts the car to get the child out from under it.

Consider the Chimpanzee, the closest genetic to man, does not have the restraint to their strength as we do to ourselves.Thusly they are a danger when they (trained chimps) go out of control. Even by light handling, a chimp has been known to break a trainer's arm. They are 1/2 our size but can call upon such strength with a heart and lung comparable to ours.

There is no need for artificial heart and lungs when the girls are 1/2 cybernetic. I would question what is powering all that equipment. Food and air is only there to keep the brain running which runs the rest of the cybernetics.

Officer Charon, I would agree that they do have some form of artificial inner layer to protect them from gun fire. The exceptions would be the Gen 2 girls or at least Petra since she is a prototype, as one of the doctors said that "she would live a long life as long as she is not shot." This says that there is no or very little protection built in her. In my universe, I extend this my universe, Rachel being a Gen 2 construction, and Francesca who was a prototype where Dr. Frankenstein did not give her such protection. Thus under Fernando's orders, they wear a minimum of 2 anti-ballistic protection layers.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Alfisti on Mon 16 May 2011 - 4:10

I think that there are arguments for artificial organs besides the need to get more oxygen/pump more blood (sort of the same thing, but whatever).

As an extension of what Charon mentioned there was Robert's idea that, for example, the lungs could be compatmentalized like a warship. So if a round did breech the outer armour layer and penetrate a lung then only the penetrated cell/cells would risk being flooded by blood or other bodily fluids. Hence more redundancy and a greater ability to absorb damage... imagine a heart or stomach with a self-sealing skin for example.

Ditto, for the digestive system. Simply because they ARE cyborgs and hence are running "hotter" than a normal human they'd need to process food more efficiently. Yes, we can't recreate a digestive system on a human size platform right now... but there's a certain amount of science-fiction built into GSG. So I think the idea that the Italians, leading the world in medical engineering in that universe, creating an artificial or at least augmented digestive system isn't so far fetched. I don't mean that they should be able to bounce tank rounds off their abs, shoot lazers from their eyes and litterally eat (and comfortably digest) bullets for breakfast... but you get the idea.

However, I think one of the best arguments for the girls having artificial organs is their secondary role: as testbeds for future prosthesis. By that argument it'd be in the SWA's interest to use artificial organs in the cyborgs simply to further that research. After all, as far as "extreme operational testing" goes, shoving that gear into a combat cyborg is a pretty good one.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Schaschanist on Mon 16 May 2011 - 6:42

Why should they run hotter? They are, as i said many times, bionic enhanced girls and not robots.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Awinnell on Mon 16 May 2011 - 6:56

@schaschanist wrote:Why should they run hotter? They are, as i said many times, bionic enhanced girls and not robots.

true ,but theres no indication of any sort of power system built into the implants,so they must be fuelled by the girls bodies,if one of the girls can easily pick up several times their own weight one must presume a higher power to weight ratio than normal,this would require greater energy to run and would in all likelyhood need a more efficient digestive system

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Alfisti on Mon 16 May 2011 - 7:48

@Awinnell wrote:
@schaschanist wrote:Why should they run hotter? They are, as i said many times, bionic enhanced girls and not robots.
true ,but theres no indication of any sort of power system built into the implants,so they must be fuelled by the girls bodies,if one of the girls can easily pick up several times their own weight one must presume a higher power to weight ratio than normal,this would require greater energy to run and would in all likelyhood need a more efficient digestive system
Pretty much. You don't get all that extra power without some sort of tradeoff, in this case: more fuel. Even in her de-tuned state Monty probably needs to eat at least as much as an adult male. Throwing in a bit of fanon and running Voodoo's theory that cyborgs can't store energy as bodyfat it all adds up to a need for a digestive tract that can process food into energy more efficiently than a regular human.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 16 May 2011 - 8:15

And you'll need more oxygen to burn all that energy via respiration. Which leads us back to the lungs.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by funkmachine on Mon 16 May 2011 - 10:42

the good news is that the human lung is massivey over built,so the there safe there.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Schaschanist on Mon 16 May 2011 - 11:45

You all forget a fact. Human cells need oxygen and the energy from food, in human limbs there is alot that needs both, simply cause there are, what was it again.... oh yes, there are those human cells.

In artificial limbs there aren't human cells, so artificials don't need oxygen.
That is one fact.

So, then i just can say, the human organs still are producing the same amount of oxygen and same amount of energy from food. And cause there are alot less human cells that need oxygen and energy you could say the body has an "overproduction" of both .

I don't see any problem there, you just have to look on both sides of the medal!

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by sdp2501 on Mon 16 May 2011 - 12:16

@Nachtsider wrote:
Note that sequence in volume three when the terrorists fire tear gas and rush the car. They wore respirators; Henrietta didn't need one.

i dont understand the logic in this... 8ft super human space marines in 5 inch thick power armor need respirators but a small cyborg girl doesnt... Puzzled

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 16 May 2011 - 12:43

@sdp2501 wrote:
@Nachtsider wrote:
Note that sequence in volume three when the terrorists fire tear gas and rush the car. They wore respirators; Henrietta didn't need one.

i dont understand the logic in this... 8ft super human space marines in 5 inch thick power armor need respirators but a small cyborg girl doesnt... Puzzled

The girl's lungs are the respirators.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by sdp2501 on Mon 16 May 2011 - 13:13

they so need to go to the year 40,765...

see how they deal with the fumes and toxins of the inside of a bio titan... heheheheheheheheh

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Awinnell on Mon 16 May 2011 - 14:55

@schaschanist wrote:So, then i just can say, the human organs still are producing the same amount of oxygen and same amount of energy from food. And cause there are alot less human cells that need oxygen and energy you could say the body has an "overproduction" of both .

not quite,depending on its level of activity,according to the Center for Space Power and Advanced Electronics, a NASA commercial center in Alabama,waiting to be harvested are 81 watts from a sleeping person, 128 from a soldier standing at ease, 163 from a walking person, 407 from a briskly walking person, 1,048 from a long-distance runner, and 1,630 from a sprinter

1,630 watts thats the maximum output of a person( a world class sprinter at that) and its generally only available in short bursts,so unless the artificial limbs are really really efficient theres not a lot of power to spare normally, so some improvement of the bodies metabolic rate would be needed just to keep them running at standby levels

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 16 May 2011 - 15:21

This is where we are currently at with artifical organs.
Nature had billions of years of evolution to create what we have. Man has yet to surpass in technology in what Nature has done.

Yes, that is a breathing lung and a beating heart in jars.

Watch the full episode. See more NOVA scienceNOW.


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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 16 May 2011 - 15:33

GSG is a more technologically advanced world than the one we inhabit.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Awinnell on Mon 16 May 2011 - 15:34

@ElfenMagix wrote:This is where we are currently at with artifical organs.
Nature had billions of years of evolution to create what we have. Man has yet to surpass in technology in what Nature has done.

Yes, that is a breathing lung and a beating heart in jars.

sorry we are unable to show you this video in your region

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 16 May 2011 - 15:36

My arguement is, the cybernetics in the arms and legs are more mechanical, along with the skeletal and muscular support parts of the body. Since they are artificial, so must the nerves connecting to them. But the from the spinal cord is connected to these artifical nerves, proving limb-brain connection.

There are a few improvements I can deal with, like Voodoo's extra organ that helps Marisa purge the nitrogen from her bloodstream. But having a respirator like Kisk says, requires a lot of blood and a lot of surface area that has yet been achieved without the lung's blood clotting inside it. Thus one would need a machine equivilant to a heart lung machine and that is as big as a conference room table and requires 50 liters of blood just to prime it.

The organs that has been replaced as far as I can tell are the eyes, inner ears, skeleton, cartilige & joints, muscles and nerves. Everything else requires more technology that would fit into a little girl.

Yes, we can argue that this is Science Fiction and that these things are allowed. But I dont think that such things are possible up to a point. They eat food to provide engery for the brain to operate. That means that the digestive system, along with the associated organs that goes with it are intact.

Just because they are cyborgs does not mean that they are 100% cybernetic beings. If so, Angie would be alive today, the girls would be able to take much higher risks than what they are at the nuke plant and they would not have to worry about going to see a medic to replace parts when Joe the Auto Mechanic could do that for them.


Last edited by ElfenMagix on Mon 16 May 2011 - 15:44; edited 2 times in total

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 16 May 2011 - 15:36

@Awinnell wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:This is where we are currently at with artifical organs.
Nature had billions of years of evolution to create what we have. Man has yet to surpass in technology in what Nature has done.

Yes, that is a breathing lung and a beating heart in jars.

sorry we are unable to show you this video in your region
Try: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/replacing-body-parts.html

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Awinnell on Mon 16 May 2011 - 15:46

@ElfenMagix wrote:
@Awinnell wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:This is where we are currently at with artifical organs.
Nature had billions of years of evolution to create what we have. Man has yet to surpass in technology in what Nature has done.

Yes, that is a breathing lung and a beating heart in jars.

sorry we are unable to show you this video in your region
Try: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/replacing-body-parts.html


no joy i'm afraid,i'll see if it's on youtube



not sure if its the same one but i guess its close

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Alfisti on Mon 16 May 2011 - 17:27

@ElfenMagix wrote:Yes, we can argue that this is Science Fiction and that these things are allowed. But I dont think that such things are possible up to a point. They eat food to provide engery for the brain to operate. That means that the digestive system, along with the associated organs that goes with it are intact.

Just because they are cyborgs does not mean that they are 100% cybernetic beings. If so, Angie would be alive today, the girls would be able to take much higher risks than what they are at the nuke plant and they would not have to worry about going to see a medic to replace parts when Joe the Auto Mechanic could do that for them.
I think we're getting to the stage where we're just all going to have to agree to disagree. Razz

Unfortunately I'm at work and can't watch the video... will do so when I get back from Brisbane on thursday

Just because something's artificial doesn't mean that it's held together by nuts and bolts. I've generally considered the "artificial" parts of the cyborgs to be fairly "organic" in nature... if that makes sense. So their installation, repair and maintinence is better suited to the skills of a medic and surgeon than a mechanic. Skeletal components may be more "mechanical" in nature, but as for ths soft, squishy bits... just look at the artificial tissue they're swapping out on 'Etta during the first few episodes.

From memory the Gen2 girls are less artificial than the Gen1s (mostly on a cost/time saving basis), but to me that would mean that they have lower energy requirements than their "older" sisters. Cybernetic components are still going to require energy from somewhere to power them... and since the girls aren't seen plugging into the wall each night it's probably a fair assumption that the energy is somehow being processed from their food intake.

Spoiler:
Petra: Actually, I just use Duracell Lithium... keeps going and going and going.

Sandro: I have come to change your batteries.

Matthew: Bow chicka bow-wow.

Incoming!

To me those cybernetic components would require more power than their original human parts... partly through their greater output but mostly as a result of technological limitations. As has already been pointed out, technology isn't all the way there yet, so if there are going to be artificial organs/muscles/whatever there needs to be a tradeoff...

...I guess that's actually the major reason I like the idea of higher energy consumption, artificial digestive tract, heart and so on: it puts limitations on the girls. Dropping out of "in universe" talk for a second, from a plot and writing standpoint it's much more fun if all that extra power comes at a price... The girls need more energy and, though they are super strong, their ability to self-repair is very limited to almost non-existant and the components wear out. It certainly makes Monty's role, almost permanently isloated from her support base, much more tenuous.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Schaschanist on Tue 17 May 2011 - 4:03

Reply to Spoiler.
Spoiler:
Uuh, bad one Sandro. Too much like a bad porn.

Why didn't you then better said "I'm here to refill your 'batteries', honey." indtead?

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by ElfenMagix on Tue 17 May 2011 - 21:56

@Alfisti wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:Yes, we can argue that this is Science Fiction and that these things are allowed. But I dont think that such things are possible up to a point. They eat food to provide engery for the brain to operate. That means that the digestive system, along with the associated organs that goes with it are intact.

Just because they are cyborgs does not mean that they are 100% cybernetic beings. If so, Angie would be alive today, the girls would be able to take much higher risks than what they are at the nuke plant and they would not have to worry about going to see a medic to replace parts when Joe the Auto Mechanic could do that for them.
I think we're getting to the stage where we're just all going to have to agree to disagree. Razz

Unfortunately I'm at work and can't watch the video... will do so when I get back from Brisbane on thursday

Just because something's artificial doesn't mean that it's held together by nuts and bolts. I've generally considered the "artificial" parts of the cyborgs to be fairly "organic" in nature... if that makes sense. So their installation, repair and maintinence is better suited to the skills of a medic and surgeon than a mechanic. Skeletal components may be more "mechanical" in nature, but as for ths soft, squishy bits... just look at the artificial tissue they're swapping out on 'Etta during the first few episodes.

From memory the Gen2 girls are less artificial than the Gen1s (mostly on a cost/time saving basis), but to me that would mean that they have lower energy requirements than their "older" sisters. Cybernetic components are still going to require energy from somewhere to power them... and since the girls aren't seen plugging into the wall each night it's probably a fair assumption that the energy is somehow being processed from their food intake.

Spoiler:
Petra: Actually, I just use Duracell Lithium... keeps going and going and going.

Sandro: I have come to change your batteries.

Matthew: Bow chicka bow-wow.

Incoming!

To me those cybernetic components would require more power than their original human parts... partly through their greater output but mostly as a result of technological limitations. As has already been pointed out, technology isn't all the way there yet, so if there are going to be artificial organs/muscles/whatever there needs to be a tradeoff...

...I guess that's actually the major reason I like the idea of higher energy consumption, artificial digestive tract, heart and so on: it puts limitations on the girls. Dropping out of "in universe" talk for a second, from a plot and writing standpoint it's much more fun if all that extra power comes at a price... The girls need more energy and, though they are super strong, their ability to self-repair is very limited to almost non-existant and the components wear out. It certainly makes Monty's role, almost permanently isloated from her support base, much more tenuous.
You know there are nuclear powered batteries used in pacemakers and other medical devices. Though the government is trying to recall them (for obvious nuclear WMD reasons), many patients are not under going the procedure to replace them with Lithium batter units because they believe the the Lithium unit will not last as long as a nuclear device: 35 years for a Lithium unit and 3000 for a Nuclear one. Beside I have yet to see a Lithium Battery last as long as advertised. 8 Hours on my Mac Powerbook? HA! Never Seen It. Only seen 2 hours max.

But seriously Alfisti, the power solution to the cyborg problem is simple: A Nuclear Battery to power the cybernetics. It provides more then enough power for simple motions and super strength actions.

As for replacement parts, they girls are not at the stage of the Star Trek 'Borgs, where they can replace failing parts on their own as a whole. But they are well past simple prosthesis as well. They are at a point where joint replacement and prosthesis are joined together and are physically in the body to be part of it. This is all a given as we all know in the GsG universe.

My argument is simple- what is the extent of the cybernetics within the girl's bodies? The answer has to be less than 50% because anything higher than that would make them bullet proof. This would mean that Triela would have been unscathed in her fight with Pinocchio or had her leg replaced from another incident in CH22, Henrietta not lose a finger to a bouncing betty in ch25, or any other time a cyborg was damaged in the series. The fact that Angie survived a truck bomb says that the construction of the cybernetics is damn hefty. But it still without its faults. Like the majority of bullet proof vests out there being bullet proof but not knife proof.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 17 May 2011 - 22:45

Cybernetics and armor are not the same thing. A lot of cybernetic components are quite fragile.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 18 May 2011 - 0:24

From what little we have seen in the manga and anime, it doesn't look like the girls use "Terminator-style" hydraulic systems, which would likely need some pretty decent wattage. And if we go nuclear, that would require a rather large radioisotope thermoelectric generator - very likely to be too large to fit within an adult human body, much less a child. And considering the amount of radiation such RTGs need to release to provide their power, they'd irradiate the tissue very quickly, leading to death. Not to mention would the Italians want Plutonium-powered girls running around? Guh?

It looks like the girls use artificial muscles made of carbon fiber or some other type of electroactive polymers.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 18 May 2011 - 2:36

Nuclear is unlikely. I'd go with electricity, perhaps generated via body heat and amplified to a cybernetics-sustaining level by some additional implanted equipment.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by crazyidiot78 on Wed 18 May 2011 - 7:07

There is a fuel cell in development that uses bacteria to generate electricity. I would imagine that could be used by the girls as it could run using the food they eat to feed the bacteria.
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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by sdp2501 on Wed 18 May 2011 - 12:30

just thought... everything has a limit to the paing it can take...

thats what this is all about...

dont get me wrong... this HAS been interesting, just not quite to the origional point.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 18 May 2011 - 12:36

We know. And our response to the original point is that even if a cyborg can't take the pain, it doesn't mean they can't be fixed.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by ChaosKin640 on Wed 18 May 2011 - 12:57

Welcome to Cyborg Central, sdp2501; the wonderful world of inevitable off-topic rants and tangents. Razz
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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by sdp2501 on Wed 18 May 2011 - 13:30

lol gd point snipe

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Awinnell on Wed 18 May 2011 - 13:51

well i suppose they could have a sort of circuit breaker that pops when they feel intense pain,disconnecting the damaged section from the nervous system and making the pain go away

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