dealing with the pain

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 17 May 2011 - 22:45

Cybernetics and armor are not the same thing. A lot of cybernetic components are quite fragile.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 18 May 2011 - 0:24

From what little we have seen in the manga and anime, it doesn't look like the girls use "Terminator-style" hydraulic systems, which would likely need some pretty decent wattage. And if we go nuclear, that would require a rather large radioisotope thermoelectric generator - very likely to be too large to fit within an adult human body, much less a child. And considering the amount of radiation such RTGs need to release to provide their power, they'd irradiate the tissue very quickly, leading to death. Not to mention would the Italians want Plutonium-powered girls running around? Guh?

It looks like the girls use artificial muscles made of carbon fiber or some other type of electroactive polymers.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 18 May 2011 - 2:36

Nuclear is unlikely. I'd go with electricity, perhaps generated via body heat and amplified to a cybernetics-sustaining level by some additional implanted equipment.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by crazyidiot78 on Wed 18 May 2011 - 7:07

There is a fuel cell in development that uses bacteria to generate electricity. I would imagine that could be used by the girls as it could run using the food they eat to feed the bacteria.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by sdp2501 on Wed 18 May 2011 - 12:30

just thought... everything has a limit to the paing it can take...

thats what this is all about...

dont get me wrong... this HAS been interesting, just not quite to the origional point.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 18 May 2011 - 12:36

We know. And our response to the original point is that even if a cyborg can't take the pain, it doesn't mean they can't be fixed.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by ChaosKin640 on Wed 18 May 2011 - 12:57

Welcome to Cyborg Central, sdp2501; the wonderful world of inevitable off-topic rants and tangents. Razz

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by sdp2501 on Wed 18 May 2011 - 13:30

lol gd point snipe

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Awinnell on Wed 18 May 2011 - 13:51

well i suppose they could have a sort of circuit breaker that pops when they feel intense pain,disconnecting the damaged section from the nervous system and making the pain go away

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 18 May 2011 - 13:52

I like that idea. It'll probably be restricted to sensory nerve pathways only, though.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Awinnell on Wed 18 May 2011 - 14:53

it does however lead me to imagine one of the girls being repaired and the doctors unscrewing a little panel to reset the breakers !

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Schaschanist on Wed 18 May 2011 - 15:15

That still makes no sense to, based on what they have shown of the girls construction.
They are, as i said many times, bionic and that is very far away from our usual "mechanic" opinion.
Their bodies are much more like ours as you may think.

I remind you of one fact: We have seen the girls sweating! They really do sweat like we, normal people do.
They have shown it in the early chapter, as we have seen the training of the girls, and they have shown it again in the new chapters, as we have seen Petra dancing till she was outpowered.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 18 May 2011 - 18:49

Dude, schas, come on. None of us can say for sure what their nature is, therefore our views aren't any less valid than yours.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by tremec6speed on Wed 18 May 2011 - 21:13

why they are made of sugar and spice and
all the bullets that fly!
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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Professor Voodoo on Wed 18 May 2011 - 21:42

I'd guess the girls' muscles are powered by chemical energy derived from breaking down food, just like ours. What compounds the food is actually broken down into is entirely up to conjecture.

Alternately, this could be a possibility...
Spoiler:


No...scratch that...very bad idea.

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by Alfisti on Thu 19 May 2011 - 17:11

@ElfenMagix wrote:...they are well past simple prosthesis as well. They are at a point where joint replacement and prosthesis are joined together and are physically in the body to be part of it.
Oh, agree: totally and whole heartedly. To me what the cyborgs are using are "artificial limbs" (organs, nerves, whatever) in the truest sense of the word: they're artificial versions of natural constructs, right down to artificial muscles (carbon fibers? elecro-polymers?... I left my materials book at home sweat ), nerves and a skeletal structure intended to mimic those of a regular human. Hence the girls look natural and feel natural to the touch (you'll have to ask 'Sandro or Constante about anything beyond that Incoming! ) and when they move the muscle movements look like those of a human.

Practical upshot though is that the technology has become so integrated that it can only be repaired or replaced in modules. So when 'Etta takes on in the arm early in the series, what's on the table for replacement is an entire muscle group, and rather than replacing or servicing components from Triela's leg they swap the entire thing out along what I can only assume to be a pre-defined break point (and probably still a total pain in the arse surgically to deal with).

As to how much of the girls is artificial, I think that in many ways would be taken on a case-by-case basis. (I'm going to talk Gen2s here so as not to muddy the water so much) Some components would be standardard across the board: every girl gets artificial limbs, eyes, ears and so on... the stuff that gives the cyborgs their abilities. However, some components are going to be optional: a girl who's been shot up is probably going to need different/less things replacing than one whose body is riddled with cancer.

@ElfenMagix wrote:You know there are nuclear powered batteries used in pacemakers and other medical devices. Though the government is trying to recall them (for obvious nuclear WMD reasons), many patients are not under going the procedure to replace them with Lithium batter units because they believe the the Lithium unit will not last as long as a nuclear device: 35 years for a Lithium unit and 3000 for a Nuclear one. Beside I have yet to see a Lithium Battery last as long as advertised. 8 Hours on my Mac Powerbook? HA! Never Seen It. Only seen 2 hours max/.

But seriously Alfisti, the power solution to the cyborg problem is simple: A Nuclear Battery to power the cybernetics. It provides more then enough power for simple motions and super strength actions.
Haha... ain't it the truth! Apple does great things, but they never did seem to quite get their battery technology/selection squared away. Razz

Honestly, I'm dubious of the idea of using a nuclear battery in the girls... simply because I'd be leery of putting even a mildly radioactive isotope in something with such a propensity to get shot. Razz Even if the radiation utilized was non-ionizing, I dunno... to be honest the "duracel" comment was meant to just be a bit of fun.

I guess for at least my own take on the GSG universe, I still hold to the theory that a) the girls are mostly artificial. The brain's human, but the body's built by a madman in a labcoat... and here "artificial" does not equal "bulletresistant"... not without some carefully worked out design and engineering anyway. part b) is that the girls run on food and water like a regular human for power... they just need more of it. Overall they operate on the same principals as normal human components, just run "hotter". From a commercialisation perspective I think that would be a technology that the SWA would want to be investigating as well. I have an uncle with a whiz-bang computerized prosthetic leg (paid for by the army), and he is forever changing the batteries in the thing... to the point where he's mostly given up on it and gets around for the majority of the time in a wheelchair.

As I said though: that's how I'm playing it, but last I checkd though my word is not law Wink (not yet at least... I'm working on world domination, but the plans are quite delayed).


ON THE PAIN ISSUE...

Yes, the girls feel pain: Triela's cramps, getting shot in the arm and so on. My own theory though is that how they feel pain is very much dependent on circumstances. So while they can quickly shrug off bullet holes and the like aquired in combat, once they drop out of that "combat" mindset, they catch pain just like anyone else. So while Marisa easily can shrug off getting caned by a teacher, getting a walloping from her handler still strikes fear into her heart. I'd caveat that by saying that "minor" (flesh wounds, lost limbs... non-life threatening) combat-aquired damage probably continues to be dulled: if only to make everyone's lives easier transporting them back for repairs. But injury aquired outside of a mission...

Random cyborg: Oh God, papercut! Ow!

Ok, they probably have a slighly higher pain tolerance even normally than an average girl their age, but still... Razz

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Re: dealing with the pain

Post by John_234 on Wed 27 Jun 2012 - 4:54

The military trains you to withstand tear gas attacks, mace and whatnot. Chemical weapons really only come in two flavors - deadly or not.

Cops can attest to the fact that a properly motivated or numb criminal can fight when maced, OC'd and tased, even shot in what should be lethal ways.

The adrenaline reflex, the boost of strength and blocking out unimportant information is what makes us so good and bad at fighting. I would only think it's logical for a cyborg to be able to fight past chemical weapons and wounds all considered, unless they were purposely designed to lack that very important "body alarm reaction."

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