If Cyborgs ruled the world...

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If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Professor Voodoo on Fri 26 Aug 2011 - 23:37

What if the cyborgs were in charge of the SWA...hell, the whole Italian government?



Henrietta: There'd be no more cyborg dorm because we'd all live with our handlers!

Triela: There would be one day a year any girl could kick the butt of any boy just because he's stupid.

Allison: Anyone who can't beat 1:50 in the Top Gear reasonably priced car can't get a drivers license!

and finally...

All Cybogs: Ice Cream...every meal. Including breakfast.

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 26 Aug 2011 - 23:44

Kara: "Bring back the monarchy. I want to be a princess!"

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by MP5 on Fri 26 Aug 2011 - 23:59

Geez... this could quickly turn into something serious, I think Nacht would like it--Cyborgs stage a coup d'etat...


Anyhow, I don't think Allison would be THAT stringent, but she would probably hold drivers-to-be up to the Finnish standard of driver's education... which includes learning on a skidpad.

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Professor Voodoo on Sat 27 Aug 2011 - 0:09

@Kiskaloo wrote:Kara: "Bring back the monarchy. I want to be a princess!"
Triela: Ahem...there's only one Princess.

Kara: Eeep! That's why I spelled it with a lower case p! I just want to be a princess...you're still the Princess.

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Danjo3 on Sat 27 Aug 2011 - 2:17

Britney: I’d want to be filthy stinking rich!

Rachel: Hello? You already are.

Britney: Oh yeah. Never mind then.

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by tremec6speed on Sat 27 Aug 2011 - 4:50

Helen: Salvatore to be made a......cyborg and I can be his 'handler'.
(insert evil laughter) Muh-m-muhahahaha!
'tore: !!!!!!!
Ayden: "A fridge in very street, packed with chicken, cheese an chocolate, yum." :b
Claes: 'foodie'
Ayden: 'yup, an proud of it.'
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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 27 Aug 2011 - 5:13

Everyone's playing it for laughs thus far. I'm going to break from the norm and try taking things seriously.

Why would the cyborgs stage a coup? Well, I can think of only one reason. They're fed up at the way they've been used. If that's the case, I don't see the coup lasting longer than the amount of time they need for certain demands of theirs to be fulfilled; they don't want to rule Italy. The only demands I can think of are:

1. Exposure of the SWA
2. Indictment of the SWA administration for crimes against humanity
3. Safe passage out of Italy to someplace safe
4. Reversal of their cybernetic modifications so they can return to being normal children again

Of course, there's no way in hell the Italian government's going to fulfill any of these demands, especially not #1. They're going to put down this rebellion, full force. What would make their countermeasures all the more interesting (and tragic) is if not all the cyborgs participated in the coup. So we have a team of cyborgs, still on the side of the government, forced to apprehend their renegade friends. Drama.

I don't see this ending happily. At the very least, it's going to seriously shake up the GSG universe, and will probably have to be handled as an AU tale.

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by tremec6speed on Sat 27 Aug 2011 - 5:42

Actually I can see some of their demands achieved especially exposing the SWA if proper team work is used (this scenario excludes the the idea of all cyborgs not in the plan) Any cyborg that was not committed would ruin any real chance of success unless the others find early in the game and rub her out. It could only be just one or two that might bail at the last minute or simply pretend to agree and act as a double agent.
Anyway, to reveal the truth, it might only take a cyborg being allowed into their handler's apartment, house etc, for say a couple of days on vacation then posting a web site with pics and info already attained by the others to alert the world there by forcing the human's hand in the negotiations.
What I do see as nigh impossible is number two: the indictment of crimes against humanity.
Helen would never lift a finger against Vinson and I suspect others as well would simply not be willing to go that far:
Henrietta allow charges brought up on her Jose? no.
Rachael I imagine would rather tell Fernando in order to get him involved on their side, causing immediate discussions/disputes.
Monty might not find out about this rebellion right away complicating things as well as the fact that this might also cause an international uproar as they operate covertly in another nation for the Italian government. Big problem.
I think the cyborgs might decide who to leave out as being every bit as important as whom to work with for various reasons.
Also, who might initiate this? Claes? Possibilities.
Demands three and four are relatively reasonable me thinks. (provided the website idea gets enough attention that forces the agency not to blow the cyborgs to kibbles n bits)
One thing for sure: people like Jean and Salvatore might view this as the reason to jack up the conditioning full tilt.


Last edited by tremec6speed on Mon 29 Aug 2011 - 6:30; edited 1 time in total
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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Professor Voodoo on Sat 27 Aug 2011 - 16:52

Lucretia: All war is abolished. Conflicts between nations shall now be decided via first-person shooter war games.

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 27 Aug 2011 - 19:37

@Nachtsider wrote:
4. Reversal of their cybernetic modifications so they can return to being normal children again.
I explored this in the early chapters of Solution Resolution when Fernando demanded for Rachel to be returned to normal, finding out that it would be impossible since (like you argued on other threads), much of their internal organs and bones have been replaced with synthetic ones. The organs that were removed were put into the trash, making them irrecoverable.

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Nagneto on Sun 28 Aug 2011 - 10:19

@Nachtsider wrote:

Of course, there's no way in hell the Italian government's going to fulfill any of these demands, especially not #1. They're going to put down this rebellion, full force. What would make their countermeasures all the more interesting (and tragic) is if not all the cyborgs participated in the coup. So we have a team of cyborgs, still on the side of the government, forced to apprehend their renegade friends. Drama.

I don't see this ending happily. At the very least, it's going to seriously shake up the GSG universe, and will probably have to be handled as an AU tale.

I concur whole heartedly.
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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by tremec6speed on Mon 29 Aug 2011 - 6:21

Just another tid bit I wanted to add since Nachtsider got me thinking here. Maybe the cyborgs will anticipate the difficulty in get this mission accomplished, (I'm starting to really like this scenario) and plant explosives to try blowing up the facilities if things go sour. I might just take a stab at this idea, story wise. The more I think of this the more chance for, as Nacht put it; 'drama'. I can see Claes spear heading this, it would take quite a while to get the plan off the ground. How many times she comes close to getting caught, who she decides to trust, cyborg or human since she might need some sympathizers 'on the inside' so to speak. Also, how far will she go to accomplish this ultimate mission? What sacrifices would she be willing to endure to get the help she needed? Nachtsider, you are genius.
The problem for me is, such a tale of woe and adventure is way past my humble writing abilities, but I can't help but be intrigued as there are so many twists and turns to this idea that I can't help but want to try.
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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by JameyoftheMegacosmos on Fri 2 Sep 2011 - 8:07

Something tells me that if this happens, there would be a huge resistance movement against the cyborgs. I'm sure there are people who DO know their weaknesses.

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 2 Sep 2011 - 9:16

tremec, stop praising me so much. Or I'll go all funky, and have to go take so many cold showers, I'll die of pneumonia. Seriously, though, thanks for seeing merit in my ideas. Razz

@JameyoftheMegacosmos wrote:Something tells me that if this happens, there would be a huge resistance movement against the cyborgs. I'm sure there are people who DO know their weaknesses.

Jamey - you sure about that? While the government would be opposed to the cyborgs, I daresay the hearts of the general public might melt upon hearing about what the girls have been through. Innocent children, brought back from the dead with technology meant to be used for good purposes, only to be coerced into doing the state's dirty work? Souls would bleed, man. The SWA kids might end up amassing a legion of sympathizers and supporters. Who knows, certain factions of the militaryand police might just be among them, giving the rebellion a much-needed boost.

Back to your input now, tremec.

Claes is a no-brainer choice for ringleader, and the no-brainer motivation for her would be to avenge the death of her 'father', Raballo. Perhaps the efforts at making her forget him fail, and she begins to get flashbacks, wondering who this man might have been. Then she does some poking around, and discovers the awful truth that the Agency silenced him. CUE A BURNING DESIRE FOR JUSTICE.

She'll almost certainly be loathe to spare anyone her wrath - not Monica Petris, not Lorenzo, and least of all Jean. Which means automatic regard of Rico as a threat - Rico, who is so devoted to Jean, the Agency and their cause. I actually see Claes and her co-conspirators excluding Rico from their plan, if not opting to neutralize her outright. That, in turn, would bring about conflict with Henrietta and Giuseppe. Giuseppe would stand by his brother, and Henrietta would stand by Giuseppe. It only complicates matters that Rico is probably the closest thing to a good friend that Henrietta has - how would she take it, facing Rico on the field of battle? Perhaps others might also wind up put off by excessive ruthlessness on Claes' part, which I think is a definite possibility.

The more I look at it, the more I think this uprising is more doomed from within than without. The rebels are not as united a front as I initially thought, and that spells trouble for them.

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by JameyoftheMegacosmos on Fri 2 Sep 2011 - 9:25

@Nachtsider wrote:Jamey - you sure about that? While the government would be opposed to the cyborgs, I daresay the hearts of the general public might melt upon hearing about what the girls have been through. Innocent children, brought back from the dead with technology meant to be used for good purposes, only to be coerced into doing the state's dirty work? Souls would bleed, man. The SWA kids might end up amassing a legion of sympathizers and supporters. Who knows, certain factions of the militaryand police might just be among them, giving the rebellion a much-needed boost.



You're right. The public WILL be supportive for the cyborgs with the government opposed to the movement. Because so, I'm certain there could be a pro-cybrog reaction from the rest of the world. Maybe mixed; just depending on the countries. But who would support them and who would not?

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 2 Sep 2011 - 11:28

From last night's chat logs. It's lengthy, but bear with it - the content is amazing, thanks in no small measure to our very own Alfisti.

Part one:

Spoiler:



[23:40:32 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I'm enjoying the 'cyborgs ruling the world' thread

[23:40:43 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Discussions like that are why I love this place

[23:41:30 02/09/11] Alfisti : It is a good read... unfortunately I've not yet been able to scrape enough
braincells together at an appropriate moment to make a reply.


[23:41:56 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Don't worry about it, there's no hurry whatsoever

[23:42:14 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Briefly, though

[23:42:27 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Where do you see Monty and Jethro standing in such a scenario?

[23:42:56 02/09/11] Alfisti : Hmm, good question...

[23:43:09 02/09/11] Alfisti : ...give me a moment to think about it.

[23:43:16 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Take your time

[23:44:41 02/09/11] Alfisti : My initial reaction would actually be for them to classify the whole thing as "not our problem" and slink off to find gainful employment elsewhere... perhaps back with the SIS.

[23:45:05 02/09/11] Alfisti : I'm sure the British would be happy for the man with the killer teenager to come back to the fold.

[23:45:13 02/09/11] Alfisti : However, if they were to get involved...

[23:45:19 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : That's actually the most sensible approach

[23:45:30 02/09/11] Alfisti : ...I honestly think they'd come down on the Government's side.

[23:45:31 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : The one least likely to cause them any trouble

[23:45:39 02/09/11] Alfisti : Essentially yes.

[23:45:41 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Government's side, eh? Hmm

[23:45:55 02/09/11] Alfisti : If slinking away wasn't an option.

[23:46:06 02/09/11] Alfisti : Of if they were caught in the middle of it.

[23:46:16 02/09/11] Alfisti : For a couple of reasons.

[23:46:29 02/09/11] * Nachtsider listens

[23:46:57 02/09/11] Alfisti : For starters, at a base level J+M see themselves as having a job to do, so they go out and do it and damn the morality.

[23:47:17 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I like such characters

[23:47:27 02/09/11] Alfisti : The grey issues of the SWA really doesn't worry them.

[23:47:34 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : The whole 'morally attuned' fratello schtick is one I want to avoid

[23:47:42 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Or prefer to avoid

[23:47:52 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : It's just such an obvious route to take, you know?

[23:48:04 02/09/11] Alfisti : Honestly I find it dull and not fitting with the universe anyway.

[23:48:11 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Yup

[23:48:36 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : The GSG universe is one where up is down and black is white

[23:48:59 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Going with this flow is, to me, far more preferable than going against it

[23:49:03 02/09/11] Alfisti : Exactly... I think the major reason I like it so much is because there's no actual "good" or "bad" guys.

[23:49:24 02/09/11] Alfisti : There's just two sides with their own ideas on how the world should work.

[23:49:24 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Although I have to admit, I tend to portray the Agency in a far more positive light

[23:50:01 02/09/11] Alfisti : I haven't gotten around to portraying the Agency itself very much yet.

[23:50:13 02/09/11] Alfisti : ...but at risk of sounding dull I'm inclined to agree.

[23:50:29 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : No biggie there; it's admittedly a pretty big and multifaceted thing to tackle

[23:50:45 02/09/11] Alfisti : Not to say again morally "correct"...

[23:51:04 02/09/11] Alfisti : ...but certainly not the big-evil place it would be in many other stories.

[23:51:12 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Yes

[23:51:33 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I guess another thing I'm guilty of is making the cyborgs lead happier existences than others depict

[23:51:38 02/09/11] Alfisti : At the end of the day, for the cyborgs it forms a pretty positive environment...

[23:51:44 02/09/11] Alfisti : ...well, most of the cyborgs.

[23:52:08 02/09/11] Alfisti : Look, for the better part the girls seem to be happy there.

[23:52:13 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I show them fostering friendships among each other, having fun, and so on

[23:52:25 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : True enough, yes

[23:52:35 02/09/11] Alfisti : Which is in tone with the manga really.

[23:52:50 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Yu was more muted in his portrayal, though

[23:52:59 02/09/11] Alfisti : This is true.

[23:53:06 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I still think he fell short where it came to showing what the girls thought of EACH OTHER

[23:53:51 02/09/11] Alfisti : Hmm... yes and no I think there.

[23:54:06 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Oh really?

[23:54:21 02/09/11] Alfisti : My
own general impression was that the Gen1 girls in particular seem to
have somewhat more muted personalities anyway... perhaps as a side
effect of the conditioniong process.


[23:54:39 02/09/11] !Achtung! : they did... but not often enough to be significant

[23:54:47 02/09/11] !Achtung! : Oh stupid Lag...

[23:55:00 02/09/11] Alfisti : As such their interractions were stilted...

[23:55:10 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Just when I thought you were gonna be quiet all night, Ach Razz

[23:55:30 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I don't know about that, honestly

[23:55:42 02/09/11] Alfisti : ...I guess I read some of that lack of defined interraction and relationships part of making them still seem a bit alien.

[23:55:46 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Nothing in Henrietta's interactions with Giuseppe indicated a stunted personality

[23:56:10 02/09/11] Alfisti : But I'd consider the handler to be a defined case.

[23:56:20 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : And Angie seemed pretty normal, too

[23:56:29 02/09/11] Alfisti : ...and if I'm honest 'Etta and Jose's interractions still weird me out a little.

[23:56:33 02/09/11] Alfisti : That one I'll pay.

[23:57:00 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : The only one bordering on socially awkward would be Rico

[23:57:15 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : And I still think that's more due to her spending all her life in a hospital bed, not due to her conditioning

[23:57:39 02/09/11] Alfisti : Well... you do work with kids more than me...

[23:57:43 02/09/11] Alfisti : ...nyan cat.

[23:57:45 02/09/11] Alfisti : Razz

[23:57:53 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : lmaooo

[23:57:57 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : As for Etta

[23:58:08 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : yes, she's possessive. Morbidly so

[23:58:17 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : But at the core of that possessiveness, I feel, is genuine devotion

[23:59:01 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : wb prod

[23:59:09 02/09/11] Alfisti : That possessiveness I've always viewed as part of her core personality... but amplified by the conditioned affection for her handler.

[23:59:14 02/09/11] theprodigalson : danke - busy busy morning

[23:59:34 02/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Maybe I'm just weird that way, but her feelings touch me more than they creep me out

[00:00:04 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I guess having her family torn from her only amplified her need for someone to cling on to

[00:00:10 03/09/11] Alfisti : There's also the possiblity that I tend to view the world through a very jaded and cynical filter.

[00:00:14 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : busy how so, prod

[00:00:31 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : oh, I view the world through pretty jaundiced eyes, too

[00:00:49 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : But that's the REAL world, not this fictional creation where things can and do remain pure Razz

[00:01:11 03/09/11] theprodigalson : its a Friday on a holiday weekend

[00:01:15 03/09/11] Alfisti : However the speculation is hugely interesting Wink

[00:01:23 03/09/11] theprodigalson : lots of people wanting money

[00:01:31 03/09/11] Alfisti : Ah, so rush time Prod?

[00:01:35 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Concur entirely. I love to speculate

[00:01:48 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Where do you work again, prod

[00:03:07 03/09/11] Alfisti : Bank... he's probably got another customer.

[00:03:22 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : no wonder

[00:03:54 03/09/11] Alfisti : Anyway, just to quickly fill in the other two reasons I think J+M would come down on the side of the government:

[00:04:08 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Let's hear it

[00:04:18 03/09/11] Alfisti : another would be that exposure of the cyborg program would risk exposure of themselves.

[00:04:35 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : worried about people wanting to settle the score?

[00:05:01 03/09/11] Alfisti : Not so much that as making it difficult for them to continue to operate under the radar.

[00:05:16 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : ah, right

[00:05:37 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Monty: international hipster girl of mystery

[00:05:44 03/09/11] Alfisti : J+M rely a lot on people not realizing that Jethro is not a criminal anymore.

[00:05:55 03/09/11] Alfisti : Hence he can make use of a wide contact base.

[00:06:08 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Retaining underworld contacts, I see

[00:06:09 03/09/11] Alfisti : Anyone finding out he now worked for The Man would make life very difficult.

[00:06:19 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : A lot of doors would close, yes

[00:06:29 03/09/11] Alfisti : Essentially yes.

[00:07:16 03/09/11] Alfisti : The final reason is that I just think the whole idea of a cyborg uprising would irk Monty's inherent sense of How-Things-Should-Be and that people should just get on with their jobs and quit complaining Razz

[00:07:51 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : hahaha

[00:07:59 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : "bloody upstarts"

[00:08:10 03/09/11] Alfisti : Pretty much.

[00:08:17 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : "suck it up and get with the program"

[00:08:18 03/09/11] Alfisti : ...way to make her life difficult girls.

[00:08:21 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : lulz

[00:09:58 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I see my characters starting off as being on the govt side

[00:10:12 03/09/11] Alfisti : You just saved me asking a question...

[00:10:16 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : lol

[00:10:25 03/09/11] Alfisti : I hear a "but" in there though...

[00:10:37 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : There's always a but, haha

[00:10:52 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : But eventually, at the end of the tale, the govt wonders

[00:11:02 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : "How the hell did the rebels manage to get away?"

[00:11:12 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : There are suspicions, but no one can prove anything

[00:11:44 03/09/11] Alfisti : Always good to know how to cover your tracks.

[00:11:53 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Ayep

[00:11:57 03/09/11] Alfisti : ...especially if you're working from the inside?

[00:12:05 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Ah, there's the thing

[00:12:26 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I won't make it plain if Liesel was a double agent all along, or if she changed her mind along the way

[00:13:04 03/09/11] Alfisti : Always good to keep a bit of mystery about it.

[00:13:14 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I like ambiguity

[00:13:16 03/09/11] Alfisti : Keeps 'em coming back for more Wink

[00:13:22 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Indeedy do

[00:13:39 03/09/11] Alfisti : Ambiguity is definately win.

[00:13:39 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Although I suspect that Liesel would've been sympathetic towards Claes' desire for vengance

[00:14:05 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Which brings me to another issue

[00:14:22 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I'm starting to wonder if Claes' motives for the uprising might not be readily apparent from the outset

[00:14:40 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Perhaps she initially paints it as a crusade for the greater good of the cyborgs

[00:14:56 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : But in all truth (which she hides from the rest) she's actually just meaning to avenge Raballo

[00:15:18 03/09/11] Alfisti : I think I could see Claes being a supporter of a revolt... then emerging as a leader.

[00:15:36 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Who'd be the instigator, in your scenario?

[00:15:36 03/09/11] Alfisti : Perhaps an almost "Animal Farm" scenario?

[00:15:40 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Because I see her as the actual ringleader

[00:15:46 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Hey again Ach

[00:16:05 03/09/11] !Achtung! : back again and thanks

[00:16:08 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I suppose Triela could be a candidate

[00:16:22 03/09/11] Alfisti : Ok, actually, thinking a little on it I could see Claes as the ringleader...

[00:16:24 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : In that she might launch a rebellion out of a desire to help the other girls

[00:16:36 03/09/11] Alfisti : ...probably, and importantly, as she doesn't have a handler to worry about.

[00:16:55 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Also, I don't think anyone suspects Claes of being a threat

[00:17:09 03/09/11] Alfisti : What I could see happening though is Triela perhaps acting as a voice of reason and the revolt starting with heart-of-gold motives...

[00:17:09 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : She's just the non combat guinea pig

[00:17:21 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Go on

[00:18:01 03/09/11] Alfisti : ...but as you said: that need for vengence burning through and eventually consuming it. Perhaps Triela could reconize Claes' actual motives... hence why she feels the need to act as a voice of reason.

[00:18:10 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Brilliant

[00:18:19 03/09/11] Alfisti : But eventually she gets forced out as the revolt becomes more single minded.

[00:18:45 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Now I'm starting to wonder who else would be among the conspirators

[00:19:35 03/09/11] Alfisti : Well, I could see Triela going along with it because Hilshire will go out of his way to support her.

[00:19:46 03/09/11] Alfisti : ...I think devotion to the handlers will be a stumbling block here.

[00:19:50 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Assuming we're setting the story before Angie's death, I can see her as being the impetus behind Triela's motives

[00:20:15 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Yeah, the handlers are gonna be a problem

[00:20:35 03/09/11] Alfisti : Perhaps Angie as the straw that broke the camel's back?

[00:20:45 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : How so?

[00:22:00 03/09/11] Alfisti : Search me... perhaps it was something Claes had brewing for awhile, and seeing
Angie start to degenerate was the final straw to push Triela into going along with her...


[00:22:07 03/09/11] Alfisti : ...along with perhaps Elsa's death.

[00:22:16 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Ah, that makes more sense now

[00:22:27 03/09/11] Alfisti : ...though that could be a difficult sell as none of the girls seemed particularlly put out by that last.

[00:23:07 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I've always entertained the notion that the girls actually feel more than even we, the readers, think they do

[00:23:44 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : But Elsa... no, I don't think they missed her

[00:23:53 03/09/11] Alfisti : Crying inside but the conditioning blocks it surfacing perhaps?

[00:23:58 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I run with the notion that Elsa made no friends with her sharp tongue

[00:24:01 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Yup

[00:24:24 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Angie's death, on the other hand, I like to think tore them up on the inside, but they just could not express themselves

[00:25:07 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Gen 2's excepted, of course - I believe the gen 2's never knew angie and therefore never gave a damn Razz

[00:25:20 03/09/11] Alfisti : While I agree that Elsa probably made no friends... by the same token the way
she died (which seems like a poorly kept secret) could be the imputus for some introspection and serious navel gazing.


[00:25:29 03/09/11] Alfisti : Agreed on the Gen 2s

[00:25:56 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : navel gazing. the term makes me lol

[00:26:09 03/09/11] Alfisti : me too... which is why I use it.

[00:26:21 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : We all know that Etta got to the bottom of the Elsa affair fairly quickly, yes

[00:26:30 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : But did she share her findings with the rest?

[00:26:57 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : The Agency's official explanation is that Elsa and Lauro died in an enemy ambush

[00:26:59 03/09/11] Alfisti : My feeling is that she probably didn't.

[00:27:14 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : There we go

[00:27:39 03/09/11] Alfisti : However, if she could work it out, I think the other cyborgs would at least have
to have their own theories outside the party line.


[00:28:06 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I'm starting to recall that story of mine where I come up with an alternative explanation for Elsa's death

[00:28:20 03/09/11] Alfisti : Etta, because of her devotion probably worked it out easier...

[00:28:21 03/09/11] !Achtung! : ~

[00:28:28 03/09/11] Alfisti : ...but yeah.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------





There may be no peace for the wicked, but the righteous can damn well get a piece whenever they feel like it.
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Nachtsider
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD

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Forum Posts : 5718

Location : Inside your closet. In your head.

Fan of : Gunslinger Girl, Transformers: Animated

Original Characters : Liesel/Altheus, Meir/Kathryn, Aharon/Nadia, Cosette/Janus

Comments : The Living Legend. Master of Darkness. Trailblazer par excellence. Fear him.

Registration date : 2007-09-09

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 2 Sep 2011 - 11:32

Part two:

Spoiler:

[00:28:54 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Now I begin to wonder where Bea might stand
[00:29:02 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Or Petra

[00:30:08 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Bea strikes me as such a blank slate, that it could go either way

[00:30:22 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I do have this gut feeling, though

[00:30:38 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : That beneath that impassive exterior lies a loyal friend and a girl of integrity

[00:31:13 03/09/11] Alfisti : I'd pay that... I think she'll go along with what the other girls do.

[00:31:18 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Therefore, I'm leaning towards her being with Claes

[00:31:25 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Uh huh

[00:31:26 03/09/11] Alfisti : I couldn't see her being an instigator.

[00:31:37 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : She's no planner, yep

[00:31:52 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Now, Petra. That's a conundrum

[00:32:06 03/09/11] Alfisti : As to Bernardo... I think he'd back what he thought was best for his cyborg.

[00:32:24 03/09/11] Alfisti : Petra I think could fall either way... probably very dependent on what 'Sandro's view was.

[00:32:31 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Bernado's quite the cipher, too, but he essentially seems a nice guy

[00:32:43 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : So... just what might Sandro think?

[00:32:53 03/09/11] Alfisti : Pretty much.

[00:32:57 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : He strikes me as an opportunistic sort, to be honest

[00:33:00 03/09/11] Alfisti : See now, there's the conundrum.

[00:33:21 03/09/11] Alfisti : I think he is, both by personality and by trade.

[00:33:39 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : If Claes managed to leak the Agency's existence to the media from the
get-go, he might panic and think his position to be threatened


[00:34:21 03/09/11] Alfisti : That said he does also seem to begrudge slightly the SWA's treatment of his cyborg at times.

[00:34:24 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Thus spurring him to try and attach himself to the rebels

[00:34:34 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Yes, you're right

[00:34:45 03/09/11] Alfisti : However he's also not afraid of doing dirty work.

[00:35:07 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Claes might cut a deal with him, although it would be distateful for her

[00:35:09 03/09/11] Alfisti : So he could fall either way.

[00:35:23 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Perhaps in light of certain knowledge he has about the other side

[00:35:41 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : But the moment he sees the rebels start to squabble, he'll flip flop and doom them

[00:35:46 03/09/11] Alfisti : On the assumption you're going to write this...

[00:35:53 03/09/11] Alfisti : ...I'd be tempted to keep him as a wild card.

[00:36:01 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : lol, I doubt that's gonna happen anytime soon

[00:36:03 03/09/11] Alfisti : Then have him fall as the story requires.

[00:36:12 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : wild card, excellent

[00:37:38 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : So what of Rico?

[00:37:52 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Does Claes plot to have Rico neutralized from the outset?

[00:38:18 03/09/11] Alfisti : It'd certainly be a tragic opener for the rebellion and would set the tone early.

[00:38:27 03/09/11] Alfisti : However I couldn't see Triela going along with it.

[00:38:41 03/09/11] Alfisti : Rico I think you were right in the thread would go along with Jean.

[00:39:04 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Jean is likely to be Claes' first target

[00:39:24 03/09/11] Alfisti : Perhaps Claes is plotting to off her early on, but her actually being killed is the sign that Triela's been totally forced out of the leadership.

[00:39:42 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : hmmm

[00:39:52 03/09/11] !Achtung! : ~

[00:40:10 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I'm starting to wonder if Henrietta might end up tipping Rico off, perhaps inadvertantly

[00:40:11 03/09/11] Alfisti : Rico could also be the imputus for everything to fall apart.

[00:40:15 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : And by extension, jean as well

[00:40:33 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Etta I see as one of the weak links in Claes' chain

[00:40:46 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : She and Rico are close, from what we've seen

[00:42:11 03/09/11] Alfisti : True...

[00:42:47 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I can suddenly see this happening

[00:43:03 03/09/11] Alfisti : ...bear with me for a second here... because I see the idea of killing another
cyborg as being the sort of thing that would bring the rebellion crashing down.


[00:43:19 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Not a bad thought

[00:43:23 03/09/11] Alfisti : Stepping back a few paces...

[00:43:56 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : But I think Claes would've totally expected to have to deal with other cyborgs

[00:44:01 03/09/11] Alfisti : The girls seem pretty happy at the SWA, with handler and friends... the only one even remotely likely to think that far outside the box I believe would be Claes.

[00:44:13 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Triela and the rest, not so

[00:44:33 03/09/11] Alfisti : I could see essentially everyone getting caught up in her passion.

[00:44:53 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : You may be right... all the other rebels apart from Claes may have
genuinely believed in some sort of outcome where no cyborg would die, inane as it may seem


[00:44:55 03/09/11] Alfisti : ...but when the chips finally come down, offing one of their own... you know what? Things really weren't so bad before.

[00:45:19 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : ... that doesn't spell a very good outcome for Claes

[00:45:21 03/09/11] Alfisti : Reconditionings and bad endings for everybody.

[00:45:38 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : You mean you see the rebels turning on Claes and surrendering?

[00:46:00 03/09/11] Alfisti : That would be one possible scenario yes.

[00:46:17 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Very interesting

[00:46:44 03/09/11] Alfisti : The Ageny removes her, wipes the cyborgs' memories of the entire event and the status quo returns...

[00:46:45 03/09/11] !Achtung! : Right.. conscious again

[00:46:49 03/09/11] Alfisti : ...minus Claes.

[00:47:05 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Wonder if Claes might off herself first, instead of allowing herself to be taken

[00:47:47 03/09/11] Alfisti : Hmm...

[00:48:03 03/09/11] Alfisti : ...six of one, half a dozen of the other there I think.

[00:48:07 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I dunno why a suicide vest is coming to mind

[00:48:30 03/09/11] Alfisti : The barrier with Claes is explaning away her final order from Raballo to be gentle.

[00:48:52 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Perhaps she thinks avenging his death is a justifiable exception

[00:48:57 03/09/11] Alfisti : Perhaps some breakdown of the conditioning... or a bad dose from a test scenario?

[00:49:10 03/09/11] Alfisti : brb

[00:49:18 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : sure

[00:49:30 03/09/11] !Achtung! : what are we doin?

[00:49:42 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : we're talking about a scenario where the cyborgs revolt

[00:49:46 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : and take control of the agency

[00:50:42 03/09/11] !Achtung! : Their heads will explode.... the second gen's at least....

[00:50:56 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Ah, the old failsafe theory

[00:51:03 03/09/11] !Achtung! : "Notice how I always take the shortest most direct route..." XD

[00:51:07 03/09/11] Alfisti : and back

[00:51:22 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Ach just went all Dr Moreau on us

[00:51:32 03/09/11] Alfisti : Saw that.

[00:51:36 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Which is, admittedly, something I forgot to consider

[00:51:56 03/09/11] !Achtung! : And Blach.... I cant stop myself from liking the 85 Holden VK Commodore Group A....

[00:52:06 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Our resident Dr Moreau, Gilliani, might have installed failsafes of some kind in the cyborgs

[00:52:30 03/09/11] Alfisti : Open by 'offing him?

[00:52:51 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Doubt Claes has any love for Gilliani, so that's a possibility

[00:52:54 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Alternatively...

[00:53:23 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Claes gainst allies among the other Agency staff, including at least one medico

[00:53:46 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Seriously, I consider nearly all the support staff to be sympathetic towards the rebels' cause

[00:53:55 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Pris, Amadeo, Georgio, Olga

[00:54:10 03/09/11] !Achtung! : Ever considred an "Outside" force helping em out?

[00:54:13 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I get the impression they really care for the girls and deplore their treatment

[00:54:17 03/09/11] Alfisti : Pris definately would be...

[00:54:23 03/09/11] !Achtung! : My brain isnt working properlly

[00:54:26 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Yup, I posted that possibility in the thread

[00:54:32 03/09/11] Alfisti : ...and she's an intelligence analyst.

[00:54:33 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : And Bianchi, too

[00:54:52 03/09/11] Alfisti : Admittedly counter-espionage rather than the other way around but...

[00:55:13 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : You have to learn espionage before you can counter espionage

[00:55:45 03/09/11] Alfisti : Yeah... but the practical skills may be a bit rusty.

[00:56:07 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : As for outside force, if the media leak happened, I imagine there might be
an influx of support from bleeding hearts all over italy


[00:56:31 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I wouldn't underestimate pris... I think she's still on the ball, or the agency wouldn't have hired her

[00:56:46 03/09/11] Alfisti : Oh I don't deny that at all.

[00:57:10 03/09/11] Alfisti : But it's worth remembering where her specializations lie as well.

[00:57:27 03/09/11] Alfisti : As for a media leak... I don't think that would be a wise move.

[00:57:28 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I guess so

[00:57:48 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : It wouldn't?

[00:58:15 03/09/11] Alfisti : Because while it may garner outside support, it may also give anyone with a
score to settle a good opportunity to bomb the sweet-living-crap out of the cyborgs.


[00:58:44 03/09/11] Alfisti : As we've already established: revenge is a powerful motivator.

[00:58:53 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : There's going to be a huge government cordon around the premises

[00:58:57 03/09/11] !Achtung! : It iz

[00:59:07 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I don't know if anyone could get in

[01:00:07 03/09/11] Alfisti : I dunno... maybe I just tend to err away from outside help as increasing the scale sort of takes the interest away a bit for me.

[01:00:13 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : But by that virtue, outside help for the rebels would not be able to get in, either Razz

[01:00:23 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : So you get your wish, lol

[01:00:35 03/09/11] Alfisti : Razz

[01:01:10 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : shit, there was something I wanted to say, but I can't remember

[01:01:17 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : oh yes, that's right

[01:01:47 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : There's gonna have to be an oblicatory scene where the rebels totally pummel an atempted special forces incursion

[01:01:56 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : ala The Rock

[01:02:18 03/09/11] Alfisti : And they all get taken down by Sean Connery and Nicolas Cage in the end?

[01:03:15 03/09/11] !Achtung! : Now I cant take a certain scene off my head

[01:03:54 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : lol

[01:04:23 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : It would be hilarious if Sandro and Petra ended up the two survivors of the failed raid, and got captured

[01:04:33 03/09/11] !Achtung! : Where the Special Forces enter the Showers through a drain... and someone is
there... on a seat waiting for them "Its rude to enter the Girls showers, y,know" and preferably with a detonator for some C4 on hand


[01:04:41 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : After which sandro tries to cut his deal

[01:04:53 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : That's gonna have to be Triela, lol

[01:05:06 03/09/11] !Achtung! : PERFECT

[01:05:46 03/09/11] Alfisti : Razz

[01:06:51 03/09/11] !Achtung! : Wha..whe... how is the VK Commodore only 1.2-1.3 Tons...?

[01:07:34 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : So...

[01:07:50 03/09/11] !Achtung! : Its a BIG car

[01:07:53 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Etta inadvertantly tips off Rico, and by extension Jean

[01:08:19 03/09/11] !Achtung! : lol.... Its Lucifer

[01:08:24 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Jean barely manages to escape, with Rico covering his withdrawal

[01:08:40 03/09/11] Alfisti : @Acht... it was a big car but there wasn't a lot in it... and "big" in the 1980s isn't "big" now.

[01:08:44 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : The rebels take control of the compound, with hostages taken and demands made

[01:08:45 03/09/11] Alfisti : Sounds good.

[01:09:14 03/09/11] Alfisti : The rebels take the compound, or the rebels take part of the compound?

[01:09:19 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Claes is of course infuriated that her prime target got away, but she'll have to roll with it for the time being

[01:09:30 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : hmm... i wonder

[01:09:55 03/09/11] Alfisti : It'd be interesting if different sides got key facilities.

[01:10:17 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I think Claes would be smart enough to take the hospital

[01:10:47 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : But the main prize would be the armory

[01:10:49 03/09/11] Alfisti : True... or perhaps intended to but failed?

[01:11:07 03/09/11] Alfisti : I think it'd be interesting if the cyborgs got the armoury, but the government got the medical wing.

[01:11:14 03/09/11] Alfisti : That would put the rebels on a timeframe.

[01:11:23 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Whoa.

[01:11:31 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I like your line of thought

[01:12:01 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : All of a sudden, Angie goes critical from lack of meds

[01:12:07 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : What do the rebels do?

[01:12:17 03/09/11] Alfisti : And I don't think anyone can just walk in or out of the armory either... so they'd have to budget time to get into that in order to stage an assult.

[01:12:34 03/09/11] Alfisti : Hmm, good question.

[01:13:03 03/09/11] Alfisti : Perhaps the rebels need a bargaining chip to trade.

[01:13:04 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : The armory I see as this underground bunker

[01:13:16 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Bargaining chip. This gets better and better

[01:13:29 03/09/11] Alfisti : Now that'd be an interesting scenario: one bargaining chip... but they have a choice of saving Angie, or getting the code to open the armoury.

[01:13:38 03/09/11] Alfisti : Can't pay for both.

[01:13:39 03/09/11] !Achtung! : Being Underground... no Line of Sight and NO firing lanes... Not really very effective

[01:14:14 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I think such a moment might finally expose Claes' motives

[01:14:27 03/09/11] Alfisti : I think the fact that it's full of guns and ammunition is more the motivation Acht.

[01:14:45 03/09/11] Alfisti : @Nacht... very much so Very Happy

[01:15:10 03/09/11] !Achtung! : Its either the Serpent or the Dragon's Path XD

[01:16:15 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : I'm starting to wish I was taking notes

[01:16:40 03/09/11] Alfisti : Open the archive, copy///paste into word

[01:16:50 03/09/11] !Achtung! : I cant help but think of how UTTERLY Kickass Claes would look as the Big Cheese

[01:18:18 03/09/11] Alfisti : Anyway, there I am afraid I'm going to have to leave you...

[01:18:30 03/09/11] !Achtung! : Cool head + Intellect of a Thousand Worlds.... thats like Kanade Tachibana and Yuki Nagato in one

[01:18:32 03/09/11] Alfisti : ...didn't sleep well last night and bed beckons.

[01:18:49 03/09/11] Alfisti : ciao all

[01:18:49 03/09/11] !Achtung! : nite Alfi

[01:18:51 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : No problem, I've just archived everything

[01:18:54 03/09/11] Alfisti : been great talking.

[01:18:56 03/09/11] !Achtung! : uhh mornin

[01:19:00 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Sure was, man

[01:19:10 03/09/11] @ Nachtsider : Thanks for a good discussion


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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 2 Sep 2011 - 13:29

Michele's best friend is the Prime Minister, so he'd be on the side of the government, even though his heart does bleed at times for the girls. Kara's loyalty to him is absolute, so she'd carry out whatever orders he gave her.

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Alfisti on Sat 3 Sep 2011 - 11:38

Hmm... with cyborgs coming down on both sides of the fight I think I can see where this is headed...

Spoiler:


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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Professor Voodoo on Sat 3 Sep 2011 - 11:51

@Alfisti wrote:Hmm... with cyborgs coming down on both sides of the fight I think I can see where this is headed...
CYBORG FIGHT!!!


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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 3 Sep 2011 - 12:32


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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by SPARTAN 119 on Sat 3 Sep 2011 - 14:09

@JameyoftheMegacosmos wrote:
@Nachtsider wrote:Jamey - you sure about that? While the government would be opposed to the cyborgs, I daresay the hearts of the general public might melt upon hearing about what the girls have been through. Innocent children, brought back from the dead with technology meant to be used for good purposes, only to be coerced into doing the state's dirty work? Souls would bleed, man. The SWA kids might end up amassing a legion of sympathizers and supporters. Who knows, certain factions of the militaryand police might just be among them, giving the rebellion a much-needed boost.



You're right. The public WILL be supportive for the cyborgs with the government opposed to the movement. Because so, I'm certain there could be a pro-cybrog reaction from the rest of the world. Maybe mixed; just depending on the countries. But who would support them and who would not?

All I can say of this awesomeness is: Someone write this fic!
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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by crazyidiot78 on Sat 3 Sep 2011 - 14:10

Kisk after watching the video I was struck by an idea for a cross over fic, Mortal combat/ gunslinger girl. Raiden is searching the earth for the greatest warriors to compete in another mortal combat tournament and catches the second Triela vs Pinochio fight. Impressed at her skill Raiden tries to recruit her for the tournament. At the same time Shao Khan bring pinochio back to fight as one of his champions in the tournament. Initially reluctant the agency allows Triela to participate after finding the Pinochio is still alive. Over the course of the tournament several of the other girls are sent in to infiltrate the shadow realm and neutralize it while recovering any powerful artifacts they find. As a side note I would have Tea as a Johny Cage fan girl. I think Triela could take the place of Sonjia and make Kano have ties to the padania. I dunno if I can pull if off but it would make an interesting story I think.
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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 3 Sep 2011 - 18:09

This thread suddenly turned frivolous again. :(

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Alfisti on Sat 3 Sep 2011 - 19:34

@Nachtsider wrote:This thread suddenly turned frivolous again. :(
To be fair: Civil War is actually a pretty good read... though part of me also suspects it could have been a cynical marketing ploy by Marvel to get people to read heroes they wouldn't normally and thereby buy more comics.

That was actually brought on by a conversation being had in chat last night about how OCs would handle the cyborg revolt. One of the things that came out of that is that, lets be honest here, J+M wouldn't fare well in that sort of "Civil War" scenario. In a straight up fight between cyborgs, Monty's probably going to come off second best: she's weaker than the other cyborgs, her standard weapons are less powerful and her training/experience is geared toward espionage rather than combat. I still envisage a revolt taking place mostly on-compound... in that context where everybody knows everybody, J+M's core skill set is pretty useless.

Take that a step further: I think, at least for the opening salvos, whichever side is fielding the most Gen1 girls is going to be at a fighting advantage. However, if the conflict starts to drag out, with their higher maintinence requirements, they're likely to become a liability... particularly for the side not controlling the medical wing. Honestly, at the end of the day I still think any cyborg revolt is doomed to failure, by the very nature of the girls themselves.

The other question that I'd ask is, in the "Triela forced out of the leadership" scenario: what does she do? Does she stay with the rebels? Is she Snowball and runs? Or is she Spidey and change sides?

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 3 Sep 2011 - 20:28

I gave up on 616 a long, long time ago. It's become such a clusterfuck, whatever boner I may have had for Marvel is completely killed. The only title I presently read is Punisher MAX. Still, if you think this one's worth a read, I might just give it a try.

After doing some thinking, I feel Claes would be smart enough to figure out from the very beginning that control of the medical wing would be paramount to sustaining her rebellion. Without it, there's no way her forces could hope to hold out for long. That sort of nixes the whole 'getting help for a deteriorating Angie' scenario, which I think is an absolute shame as the scene would make for brilliant drama. Need to do more ruminating.

As for 'who has the most Gen-1s wins', I see the rebellion as consisting mostly of Gen-1s, with the Gen-2s being assigned by the government to taking down their wayward brethren. Now wouldn't that be interesting to watch: how would cyborgs fare against other cyborgs, specifically the new mark versions against the old ones? Shades of Soldier with Kurt Russell. Which would give me the opportunity to slyly write some scenes where the Gen-1s totally kick the Gen-2's asses. Gen-1s for life, yo. Razz

On Triela. I feel that once she's ousted, she'll stay altruistic and work to obtaining the best possible solution for everyone, namely try and defuse the situation before all her friends are killed. How she attempts to achieve that, I don't yet know.

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Alfisti on Sat 3 Sep 2011 - 21:25

@Nachtsider wrote:After doing some thinking, I feel Claes would be smart enough to figure out from the very beginning that control of the medical wing would be paramount to sustaining her rebellion. Without it, there's no way her forces could hope to hold out for long. That sort of nixes the whole 'getting help for a deteriorating Angie' scenario, which I think is an absolute shame as the scene would make for brilliant drama. Need to do more ruminating.
Planning to do so and actually attaining that goal are two very different things... and no plan survives first contact. Admittedly, Claes probably has a more intimate knowledge of the Medical wing than any other cyborg... however, and by the same token, it is also likley full of things specifically tailored for the girls' physiology. Taking the first thing that pops into my head: doors specifically designed to contain a rampant cyborg.

Feasibly a fast suprise attack could give her the facility before it could be locked down... but that has two stumbling blocks. The first is taking that idea that Rico would tip Jean off, even accidentally. If there were rumblings of a cyborg rebellion I'm sure the whole agency would be on high alert, and critical areas locked down.

More pressingly from Claes standpoint: if she wants to hit both the medical wing and still make Jean "target numero uno" from the outset: she'll have to split her forces. There's only a limited number of cyborgs and not all of them are going to be on her side. I think that one of her major issues is going to be that, while the cyborgs are very powerful, there's not many of them so it's going to be difficult to hit multiple targets at once with any certainty of success. Again it's something that will see a clash of what would be the sensible option (take medical facility) vs. burning desire for vengance (kill Jean).

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 3 Sep 2011 - 21:40

Even if they secure the facility, the girls are not able to maintain themselves. They'd need the staff.

Yes, the cyborgs could threaten the staff with injury and death, but the staff know the cyborgs need them - and they don't necessarily need the cyborgs. And an incapacitated or dead medical technician can't help maintain a cyborg...

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by tremec6speed on Sat 3 Sep 2011 - 21:44

Sorry about the many compliments Nacht, it's just that the concept of an internal rebellion of Rage By The Machines, had me all revved up!

I imagine Claes not openly trying to recruit anyone she might doubt, rather striking a conversation, after first digging up as much knowledge on that individual, (which is why I think she needs 'inside help' to get that info) and then, using that data, she tries to probe their allegiances.
Salvatore she will consider instant enemy, period. Helen is mold able, because I see the conditioning doctors complaining to 'tore that they HAVE to jack up the treatment to keep her in line directly because of his ill treatment.

Vinson (Helen's father unbeknown st to either) feels VERY guilty of his part in the agency even though he has no cyborg of his own. Claes can capitalize on this. I imagine her being quite methodical, establishing a base of followers but cultivating this relationship slowly. Ayden could be easy prey because like his older brother Lauro, Gunther sees his charge with not so much real emotion, but rather a sense of technological curiosity. (although for the record, he is not AS distant as his older sibling) However, she is kind of unpredictable. I imagine that it is common knowledge that she is for the most part quiet and keeps to herself, yet she also has been known to change and become foul mouthed. (something I imagine confuses and upsets the conditioning doctors who every now and then bring her in for more experimental drug use in order to remedy this) Claes will be factoring all this.

I'm curious as to our other OC characters where they would stand in this situation.... I read Alfisti's answer to this scenario in the reprinted chat room conversation. The fratello from Australia will not go her way. Will Claes be aware of this, or will she take a chance and try to reach them? Because of their distance, it might it might prove difficult for her to establish ongoing communications with them, so that alone may be prove an interesting additional element in this whole tale. After all if Jethro and Monty were to call the base of operations right before the insurrection takes place, they might not 'see' anything amiss but if the SWA calls out to them early on while the cyborgs are getting the upper hand in the ensuing battle, Claes will no doubt recognize their role as the ace in the hole for the Agency as they can attack at an unpredictable time and place. It just gets better and better.

Also, I picture Claes will (before making a move, still in the planning stage) wonder about Fernando who has fought Jean and does not like what is being done to these kids. Rather than taking him on and of course Rachael, she may want to establish a much closer relationship with them to get them to side with her in this. Also a certain scenario has been plaguing me while I was at work in which Claes for the sake of obtaining much needed back ground info on the people she wants to sway, has to I'm going to get up close and (somewhat) personal with one of the crew that monitors the cyborgs in their rooms. Not only to be able to chat in privacy but to actually blackmail him into coughing up the knowledge!


Last edited by tremec6speed on Sun 4 Sep 2011 - 0:13; edited 3 times in total
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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by crazyidiot78 on Sat 3 Sep 2011 - 22:53

sorry for the friviality guys
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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by tremec6speed on Sun 4 Sep 2011 - 0:05

@crazyidiot78 wrote:sorry for the friviality guys
For my part, it's cool CrazyIdiot78, I started my own comments on this thread the same way till Nacht sprung this idea on us! Wink

I'm going to rough sketch a scenario, (because I draw so achingly slow) were Claes does something she most certainly rather NOT do to obtain much needed information on the other agents..... Guh? just whistlin'

(just one possibility, this is what I meant when I posted an earlier comment about what kind of sacrifices she'd be willing to face in order to see this thing through)

Oh, and my mind has been wondering as to how the ball gets rolling in the first place so to speak. I remember having drawn a pic showing Claes looking shocked when she saw Raballo's THONG in one of his books!! Of course I do not propose this as the way the whole thing gets started, but what if she did find something in his library that amounts to a personal note from him which details who he is and the fact that he may not comeback one day. (or something along those lines, perhaps not so clear cut as that) No doubt when Raballo was rubbed out and her mind erased, staff members were sent to comb through his books for just that eventuality but what if something was overlooked? This might be how it all begins. Puzzled
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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 4 Sep 2011 - 1:54

Raballo leaving behind a 'time capsule' = genius. Perhaps he hid it in the library, as tremec suggests, or buried it in the plot of earth that would become Claes' garden. LOL @ thong. Shame on you, Raballo - SHAME. There are certain things one should never wear once they hit a certain age. Laughing

If you've read the chat logs, Kisk, you'll see my suggestion that some of the staff members would be sympathetic to the rebellion. Particularly Bianchi. That should solve the maintenance issue, at least for a while.

No plan surviving first contact = very true, Al. Claes being so familiar with the medical wing was one of the reasons I had in mind as to why she would recognize its importance. Remember, though, we're trying to come up with a scenario where the rebellion goes fairly 'as planned', at least long enough for the purposes of writing a good story. Poor cyborgs; all puppets on our strings. Razz

The 'numbers game' thing is a fair point, as is Claes splitting her force to achieve more objectives. I think, though, that the 'medical wing or Jean' scenario would be one where logic overcomes passion (albeit begrudgingly), and perhaps also one where Triela sways Claes to keep the bigger picture in mind. Also, remember how we postulated that Jean manages to escape (barely).

Not trying to be a killjoy about the frivolity, crazy et al. I'm just finding this idea so engrossing, it kinda chagrins me to see the flow interrupted. You can be jokey every now and then, no worries. But just expect me to steer things back on track after laughing with you.

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 4 Sep 2011 - 2:12

Realistically, how long of a "rebellion" can the girls maintain? Hours? Days? Certainly not weeks.

The hospital complex is isolated from the rest of the facility and the facility is isolated from everything else. At best, I could see them having a handful of hours to "get the message out" before the communication lines are cut and the Granatieri di Sardegna Mechanized Brigade of the Esercito Italiano rolls up the road and levels the place with their B1 Centauros and M109 howitzers.

Enough time for Claes to get her revenge on Jean, perhaps, but then honestly, why not just snap his neck during their one-on-ones?

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 4 Sep 2011 - 16:20

Kisk, hush you. Why must you keep making so much sense? :(

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by SPARTAN 119 on Sun 4 Sep 2011 - 21:43

@Kiskaloo wrote:Realistically, how long of a "rebellion" can the girls maintain? Hours? Days? Certainly not weeks.

The hospital complex is isolated from the rest of the facility and the facility is isolated from everything else. At best, I could see them having a handful of hours to "get the message out" before the communication lines are cut and the Granatieri di Sardegna Mechanized Brigade of the Esercito Italiano rolls up the road and levels the place with their B1 Centauros and M109 howitzers.

Enough time for Claes to get her revenge on Jean, perhaps, but then honestly, why not just snap his neck during their one-on-ones?

That might be a more likely scenario, but if were going to do a fic, we might as well go with the public discovery of the cyborgs leading to a massive Libya-style uprising, complete with armed citizens shooting it out with the military, Italian Army units defecting to the side of the cyborgs, so we can have Centauros, Ariete tanks and M109s fighting each other in armored battles, loyalist and rebel Eurofighters dueling overhead.

And as for the cyborgs, I'd imagine Triela would join Claes as part of the rebels, 'Etta is anyone's guess, being torn between her Italian Government Loyalist "sister" Rico and the her rebel sisters. Beatrice, I'm not sure about, but she might side with her handler and the Loyalists. As for the Gen 2s, Petra is definitely staying with Sandro, but the others could go either way. If its prior to her death, Angie would likely go wherever Marco does.

To make things more interesting, Claes and her rebels and the Padania now have a common enemy, possibly leading to a sniper duel between Rico (on the side of the Loyalists) and Giacomo Dante. Not to mention, if this rebellion takes place before the end of Il Teatrino, there's even the possibility of Pino and Triela fighting on the same side.

And that's before we get the rest of the international community involved.
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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 4 Sep 2011 - 22:13

@Nachtsider wrote:Kisk, hush you. Why must you keep making so much sense? :(

While the rebellion might be short-lived, the story need not be. You could have an initial skirmish between the two cyborg groups (for and against) and then the military is brought in. Some of the "rebels" make their escape (the isolation can work to their advantage) and the chase is on.

Meanwhile, the public is debating the ethics of this and then news of a military assault to kill them becomes public. I expect Italians would not be pleased to hear the military was used on their fellow citizens. You could have some of the pro-government fratelli starting to wonder/fear what might happen to them if their continued existence becomes a liability.

We know the PM controls 70% of the media, so that could be a major subplot right there - how do you get the message out when your opponent controls the delivery mechanisms?


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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by MP5 on Mon 5 Sep 2011 - 1:00

If we factor Original characters into this idea, I would like to bring in Saladin and his interesting position as the primary gatekeeper of the armory (at least, in the universe of TTSC). Given that Jean silenced his handler as well (for reasons less unwarranted than Raballo's demise), and having had it covered up before being given a new handler, he can easily be the first line of defense against Claes' rebellion...or, dependent on his reaction to Claes telling him the truth behind Lucio's demise, he could just as easily be a benefactor to the rebel movement. However, the caveat to the latter is that Saladin has a loyalty to a new handler, and depending on where Kris' allegiances lie, the truth might not be enough to persuade Saladin to refrain from locking down the armory and putting a bullet through Claes' eye. What more if they take Kris hostage?

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by tremec6speed on Mon 5 Sep 2011 - 5:24

I like how this plot is brewing nicely me thinks....

(meanwhile, I'm trying to make time to quickly do a rough sketch *'quick' for me is not saying a great deal unfortunately* of Claes black mailing a room camera monitor who works in the wee hours of the morning. At that time I like to think that there might only be one until later in the morning when greater activity warrants a full crew.

Claes learns this as well as the fact that this particular individual might have a more personal interest in the 'borgs. She also becomes aware of the location of the hidden camera so that one early morn she rises, goes the bathroom to get a drink of water and sits back down on her bed. Then she slowly looks up at the camera and ....... smiles. The man in the room knows the drill: the mechanical warrior should not know it's location and should initiate series of well trained procedures in that eventuality, but alas, does not! Instead he looks nervously at her, sweat running down the side of his face, but then calmly the young girl finishes her glass and goes back to sleep.

The man begins to wonder if he in fact did witness anything worth reporting or should he keep this to himself. On another occasion, she will once more interrupt her own sleep but this time she will leave her room and head towards the man in his monitoring chamber! His heart beating harder as he detects he soft foot steps approaching his door. Mind racing, he mentally argues with himself knowing this is certainly wrong yet deep within himself, pulls a desire to let her in and when she in fact knocks gently on the door, he realizes his highly excited state will be impossible to hide.

Claes will have with her a small tape recorder she got (from another cyborg perhaps?) as she tells him of her crush for this man whom she barely knows, intent on convincing him of her genuine attraction. She will no doubt be trembling herself as the Quiet Cyborg has never come close to experimenting with any such behavior. Anyway, you can see where this is going, Claes must now get him to say something very incriminating that she can use against this employee in order to manipulate him.

I'm sure there are other ways The machine fighter could accomplish this task but this scenario I think seems highly charged because even though I do not see Claes allowing this man to do anything sexual to her, she might be able to come as close to that as is necessary to record something which could destroy this man's job and reputation. Again this is the reference I made earlier to the sacrifices poor Claes might have to endure in order to get much need information, for I can imagine perhaps a few adult members siding with her but then again, she may also opt for twisting someone's arm back so to speak!

Oh and thanks for the nice comment Nacht, I can't tell you how grateful I am that you came up with this. You see, before this thread came about I was just doodling with my characters, wondering if a cyborg can get fat 'n' lazy. I'll post on my art thread the stuff I was just messing around with before the Cyborg Uprising ( hopefully collaborative story Smile ) got going. You'll see what I mean. Man, I was going nowhere with that......
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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by JameyoftheMegacosmos on Mon 5 Sep 2011 - 12:36

To start with in international attention, who would the Western powers themselves side with? Is Italy a member of NATO? If it is, then maybe relations like that could keep the Western countries like the US, UK, and France from help the cyborgs.



Another one I'm unsure on are the other great powers like Russia, China, and India.

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by tremec6speed on Thu 8 Sep 2011 - 2:11

Well, another idea bites the proverbial dust. I tried drawing Claes working up the nerve to entice a decidedly perverted SWA Room Monitor employee in order to blackmail him into getting her much needed intel, but instead of depicting what I hoped would be intense drama, my sketches just came across as corny. NO Of course Claes would never let this guy do anything to her. If he actually tried to make a move, I imagine the cyborg would've rubbed him out right there and then. Anyway, what I initially thought could've made for a suspenseful scene just turned out silly. Back to thee drawing board I guess. I'll post what I drew (for what it's worth) in a bit, me personal time is in a crunch these days.
Re-reading the RABALLO thread, I see Nacht had this idea way back in July, 2008.... cool.
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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by tremec6speed on Sat 8 Oct 2011 - 18:06

EDIT: My apologies to MP5 who has a character named Brian, I forgot and named the character in my own story Brian. Normally that would not be a big deal, but since my Brian is a pervert, it just doesn't feel right to me. Again, sorry about that MP5, I'm officially changing my 'Brian' to 'Luis'. Just wanted to get that out there, hopefully there are no Luis characters. I've been checking, I think I'm in the clear. I'll alter my drawing, rescan it and re post it.
Ok here goes my attempt at an illustrated tale! hee hee! sweat
Once upon a time,
(yes I actually started like that, I'm a doodler posing as a writer )
Smile
a mechanical child found a most peculiar object in the garden she worked on. This child belonged to an organization which did not legally exist. She knew not who her parents were or how she even got there, but was trained to accept all she was told.
The small bag contained simple instructions which spoke of specific pages and sentences in the books the little cyborg read often. She assumed the books she enjoyed belonged to the underground agency she was a part of by fate if not by her own choosing. The message contained would revel the name of a man who she was supposed to have known and cared for her! In this place, a clandestine group of people trained and commanded mechanical children like herself to fight terrorists and other oppressive forces. Unlike this girl however, others had adults considered a brother or sister who would teach the child and accompany her on their missions. The small package promised to revel the name of her own brother as well as inform her as to why he would no longer be a part of that organization!
The cyborg known as Claes put the bag in her pocket and proceeded to finish up her hobby when all of a sudden, she heard a loud commotion from behind her! Not very far from her, she saw a fellow cyborg named Helen being yelled at and grabbed by her own brother who's name was Salvatore Battaglia, a most cruel man. She had heard of him often beating the girl if she did not perform to his specific demands. However, most of what she knew of this man was through others, never had she witnessed his abuse up close till now.
After releasing the timid cyborg, now in tears, Claes tried to make contact in order to sheer up the frightened girl with a simple 'hello' but before Helen was able to eagerly greet her in return, for she was starved for
any sign of affection, Salvatore cut her off and demanded she continue on, unable to so much as finish her reply.
Claes did not try to hide her anger and contempt at the adult who so mistreated his charge, staring at him directly.
At first Salvatore was unaware of the glare given to him, but upon realizing
it, his response was predictable.
The mechanical warrior felt her best move at that time was to simply turn away without saying a word, griping her shovel hard as though it were the man's neck! Walking a ways further, in the process of putting away her gardening tool, she was surprised to hear a voice she did not recognize. The sound was warm, friendly, asking her kindly for a favor.
She reacted by doing as she was told, reflex response well drilled into the high tech children and young adults in this establishment. What she did not expect however, was the close proximity and direct look into her eyes that this man approached her with! Caught off guard, the normally pensive, girl was taken momentarily aback and replied nervously.
Off balance she may have been however, the little cyborg would not have to deal with this advance alone as another adult, one whom Claes had learned to trust came to the rescue in the proverbial nick of time!
Olga was her name and she informed the child of her suspicions as well as other basic knowledge about this strange individual so as to not be caught unaware again. After her heroine departed, Claes shot a backwards glance at this man, who made her feel so uneasy....
Later that night, after she pieced the shocking information together revealed in the small bag, a swell of anger and indignation followed which made the young fighter resolve to take action at any cost, no matter the risk to herself! The note essentially assembled together line by line in various books Claes had access to, the message of a man who should still have been with her but would never be able to do so for he had been assassinated by the the very adults she had to trust for her existence! Coded in the note, letter by letter, read the name 'R-a-b-a-l-l-o'. Vague feelings/memories of a figure she sensed had been important in her life, danced around in her mind as she pretended to be reading the book so as not to arouse the curiosity of those whose job was to keep an eye on the mechanical children lest they behaved in a manner not permitted. Yet mentally Claes repeated his name over and over, while anger grew in leaps and bounds! In her room she shared a bed with another cyborg named Triela who just so happens was away on a mission leaving her alone to enact a hastily concocted plan.
It was not in the nature of this girl to act this way, normally the cyborg was calculated and cool in going about her daily activities, but the revelation shook her to the core and Claes acted more out of sheer anger than mental calculation. After drawing as much inner strength as she could muster, the young one prepared for action of the likes she had never even dared contemplate before!
Breathing deep in the bathroom she knew the same man who came on to her previously was now indeed watching thanks to the information given by her ally Olga. Claes was informed how late at night, only he was in the monitoring room no doubt anxious to focus his gaze upon her more than any other girl he was intrusted to oversee. All at once the cyborg did what she felt she had to do in order to put the plan in motion.
Looking over her shoulder, directly at the supposedly hidden camera, Claes smiled slightly, nervously, with her heart racing as she tried to bate the perverted employee watching her every move. The man upon realizing the cyborg had clearly demonstrated her knowledge of the secret camera, understood what his reaction should be. The instructions were clear: any cyborg who found out the location of the camera, must be reported. However, he was mesmerized by the girl's smile given explicitly to him! Sweat emerged from his brow and as his own pulse increased, he found himself unaware of anything other than the image on his screen.
Claes now continued her attack facing the camera and trying her best to look as appealing as she was able. Entranced, the man dropped his cup of coffee, finally awaking him from her spell! Dropping to the floor to wipe the spill with his handkerchief, Luis could not see what transpired afterward.
To be continued? Wink
Any comments? Suggestions?
The first close up picture I drew of Triela shows her smiling because not understanding what was going on, Claes's behavior seemed comical to her. Only after it sunk in that it's Claes who is behaving this way, was Triela shocked.
As a collaborative story, how would you continue it?


Last edited by tremec6speed on Wed 12 Oct 2011 - 21:37; edited 23 times in total
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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Officer_Charon on Sat 8 Oct 2011 - 18:48

I dig it! I can't wait to see more from you... interesting take on Claes here...

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 8 Oct 2011 - 18:49

Very interesting.

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by tremec6speed on Sat 8 Oct 2011 - 18:52

Thanks peoples, I appreciate the input, I was a bit worried this might be approaching hentai, but I figure no indecent pictures or lewd descriptions, I should be okay.
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tremec6speed

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Original Characters : Vinson/Helen/Salvatore + Gunther/Ayden. Baddies are a small group of 'techno-anarchists'

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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by crazyidiot78 on Sat 8 Oct 2011 - 23:18

Treme, very interesting take and I like it. I am curious to see how it will progress I like the art work as well.
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Re: If Cyborgs ruled the world...

Post by tremec6speed on Sat 8 Oct 2011 - 23:48

Thanks Crazyidiot78, Smile I was late as heck to work when I rammed the story as quickly as I could. I hate doing that, 'cause I would have liked to take my time and enjoy the process, you know?
(don't know it would have come out any better, at least I would have had more fun writing it) I kept thinking who's OC would like to join her in her struggle, of course only the author of that character would know the answer to that question, but it was fun speculating while drawing it.
Sorry peoples, I know I edit and re-edit my stuff, it's just that I'm always reworking it....
I think I'll take a break from this story basically for two reasons: One, I've backed myself into a corner here story-wise, since Triela seeing what Claes was up to complicates things beyond merely asking what on this green earth was she doing, because Luis won't be picking up that spill forever, so he's bound to hear the conversation/explanation and then Claes is done.
The second reason is that I've been itching to draw what a day in the life for my second fratello Gunther and Ayden is like and redraw/rewrite the whole Vinson, Helen, Salvatore too. There's a lot of ideas swirling around my nutty brain for these two that I'm eager as a beaver to draw! Smile
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