Striker unit ideas

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 8:57

Jokes aside, bringing down one of those huge Neuroi thingies via ramming would only be possible by impact-detonation of the Striker units. The fact that a Witch cannot disengage from her gear the way a pilot can bail out of their plane would certainly mean that the attack, if successful, would result in her death.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Awinnell on Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 9:03

bomber strike witches on the other hand may work, a ten ton Grand Slam bomb would make a dent

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 9:08

Back to the Japanese fighter pilots - one of the tactics that they used against Allied bomber formations was to fly above them and drop air-burst-capable phosphorus bombs in their midst. It didn't work very well against the Superforts, but less well-armoured ships like the Liberators and Mitchells were vulnerable - Tetsuzo Iwamoto once took out three or four Liberators with one of those things.

Extrapolating on this notion, and incorporating Awinnell's suggestion, I imagine an air-burst-capable Tallboy or Grand Slam would work with devastating effect against a Neuroi ship, but delivery would obviously be a problem. Perhaps an airframe based on the Lancaster or the Superfort, interfaced with three or more Witches, might do the trick. Bomber Striker units: such a tantalizing notion.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by MP5 on Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 10:10

@Nachtsider wrote:Jokes aside, bringing down one of those huge Neuroi thingies via ramming would only be possible by impact-detonation of the Striker units. The fact that a Witch cannot disengage from her gear the way a pilot can bail out of their plane would certainly mean that the attack, if successful, would result in her death.

Actually, look at Season 1's finale. Granted, Yoshika had to be carried by Lynette and Perrine, but she herself disengaged from her Strikers to send them flying into the Neuroi core of the infected Akagi.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ACH on Sun 22 Apr 2012 - 11:04

Actually... Witches doing it CQC with the Neuroi are not unheard of in the SW universe.

Especially the 502nd "Break Witches" which has a very high striker unit attrition rate cause of repeated incidents where "kicking of cores with striker units" happen as well as straight up punching them.

They are lucky that they face the light airborne neuroi. Coz I dont think those tactics would work in the African campaign where ENORMOUS Neuroi roam the sands.

Which is why the usual killing blow is done by witches lugging 40mm Bofors and even 88mm Flak 36's into the air. Or needing help from ground attack witches carrying high penetration weaponry of 37-75mm autocannon calibers.

And if that doesnt work, theres always the tanks to call upon.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Three Dog on Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 1:23

-ACHTUNG- wrote:Actually... Witches doing it CQC with the Neuroi are not unheard of in the SW universe.

Especially the 502nd "Break Witches" which has a very high striker unit attrition rate cause of repeated incidents where "kicking of cores with striker units" happen as well as straight up punching them.

They are lucky that they face the light airborne neuroi. Coz I dont think those tactics would work in the African campaign where ENORMOUS Neuroi roam the sands.

Which is why the usual killing blow is done by witches lugging 40mm Bofors and even 88mm Flak 36's into the air. Or needing help from ground attack witches carrying high penetration weaponry of 37-75mm autocannon calibers.

And if that doesnt work, theres always the tanks to call upon.

Wouldn't artilery such as the Wesp be better suited than tanks, which would probably be within range of the Neuroi's beams?

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ACH on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 4:58

Artillery back in the days were not supplied with any armor piercing ammunition. And the usual Neuroi in Afrika are of the armored variety.

And the Tanks themselves are only Matildas, Shermans and Panzer III and IV's with maybe the occasional Tiger.

There are also Striker versions of these as well.

The aformentioned Bofors
[img][/img]
As I said... FIREPOWER...


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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 5:15

@MP5 wrote:Actually, look at Season 1's finale. Granted, Yoshika had to be carried by Lynette and Perrine, but she herself disengaged from her Strikers to send them flying into the Neuroi core of the infected Akagi.
And the bolded part is the crux of the matter: only possible with buddies at hand.

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:Wouldn't artilery such as the Wesp be better suited than tanks, which would probably be within range of the Neuroi's beams?
You kidding? I bet even the artillery is probably within range.


Last edited by Nachtsider on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 19:15; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Awinnell on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 5:56

-ACHTUNG- wrote:Artillery back in the days were not supplied with any armor piercing ammunition. And the usual Neuroi in Afrika are of the armored variety.

And the Tanks themselves are only Matildas, Shermans and Panzer III and IV's with maybe the occasional Tiger.

There are also Striker versions of these as well.

The aforementioned Bofors
[img][/img]
As I said... FIREPOWER...

actually all the tanks had was armour piercing rounds,but back then an armour piercing round was a solid shot ,as the war progressed both sides up gunned their tanks,at the start of the war the Panzer II had two 20mm cannon the panzer III started out with a 37mm but was upgunned to a 50mm and then a 75mm this was due to the at the time superior penetration of the British two pounders (40mm) on the cruiser tanks and later on the presence of the superb Soviet T-34

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ACH on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 9:37

@Awinnell wrote:
-ACHTUNG- wrote:Artillery back in the days were not supplied with any armor piercing ammunition. And the usual Neuroi in Afrika are of the armored variety.

And the Tanks themselves are only Matildas, Shermans and Panzer III and IV's with maybe the occasional Tiger.

There are also Striker versions of these as well.

The aforementioned Bofors
[img][/img]
As I said... FIREPOWER...

actually all the tanks had was armour piercing rounds,but back then an armour piercing round was a solid shot ,as the war progressed both sides up gunned their tanks,at the start of the war the Panzer II had two 20mm cannon the panzer III started out with a 37mm but was upgunned to a 50mm and then a 75mm this was due to the at the time superior penetration of the British two pounders (40mm) on the cruiser tanks and later on the presence of the superb Soviet T-34

I said the Artillery didnt have armour piercing rounds, And the 75mm mounted on the late model Panzer III was again, rarely issued with AP rounds (some HEAT were supplied) largely because the armament it had was of a low velocity short barreled close support gun. And the Panzer II had "ONE" 20mm Cannon and a coaxial 7.92mm MG34.

Some pics:

Heres the Panzer III N and its superb infantry killing 75mm shorty, tho it gets a bit useless when faced with armor (the 50mm was actually had almost twice the effective penetration and ROF)
[img][/img]

And the Panzer II's 20mm cannon and MG34, again effective versus infantry, but largely ineffectual when faced with armor.
[img][/img]

And if a Nation in WWII knew how to make Anti-Tank Guns... Its gonna be the UK, with the 2, 6, 17, pdrs being the top of their category.

And as for range, the only thing that can probably attack a neuroi and be immune to the beams are railway guns such as the Krupp K-5, with a range that will cause envy from even the Yamato, Bismarck and Iowa of 60+kms. This is far enough that there will be no Line Of Sight between target and gun... and thus will cause beams to be ineffective.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Three Dog on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 10:24

Every single time I open my mouth on this thread, I sound like an idiot . Won't stop me posting though, Imma stubnorn that way.
And also, the 20mm rounds used by the Luftwaffe (don't know the specific aircraft) should be at least semi-effective against armoured targets. And surely some of the Kerlsland (German) super tanks such as the Panzer VIII Maus, Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte, and Landkreuzer P. 1500 Monster. While only the first one was ever produced (and that was only one and a half prototypes because Russia captured the testing grounds), the SW universe is not an exact mirror of our own, so it is a possibility that these tanks could have been produced.
Assuming that they don't ever get hit by the beam that is, since the top speed of the fastest, Ratte, was 40km/h, followed by the Monster at 15km/h and finally the Maus at 13km/h.
While one of the bigist problems with super tanks was thier transportation (unabl;e to use bridges or tains and they destroyed roads), the Witches seem to be pretty strong, so if neccissary, they could cart them into range.
The main reason I think these tanks would be effective, is because of this, the 800mm shell that was to be fired by the Monster:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:80cm_Gustav_shell.jpg. It's next to a Russian T-34 for comparison. It's secondary armerment was a pair of 15cm Howitzers and multiple 15mm MG 151/15s. I t required a crew of 100+ men to opperate
The Ratte's main armerment were a pair of 280mm cannons, and its econdary armerment of a 128mm cannon, eight 20mm flak cannons, and and two 15mm MG 151/15s. its crew was twnety with up to forty one.
And finally, the Maus had a 128mm gun, with secondaries of 75mm gun (co-axil) (same make as the main gun), and a 7.62mm MG 34
And before any one asks, yes, I got all this from Wiki. in order or appearance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus_%28tank%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1500_Monster
And yes, I know that wiki isn't a 'reliable' source, but it's a bit late where I live (11:53 at the moment) so that's all the research Imma doin' .

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ACH on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 14:34

They will be effective, oh yes... effective at being massive targets that will attract enemy from miles away. The range of the 800mm Schwere Gustav is some 40km, which is good but the K-5 has an extra 50% more over that. In order to fire the Gun at a target, It needs to get in range, either as a whole or in pieces.

As a whole, It would trundle about, destroying roads and bridges and pockmarking the countryside, and will be a massive slow-moving target. If transported in pieces, then it would be easier to hide, and movement would be faster as well...sounds better already, until you get to the elephant in the corner.

"Right! we got the pieces in range... now we build it..." And that takes about a month to do so... and remember that your building the equivalent of a Naval Destroyer on the ground, for two months... within 40kms of the enemy. In those two months it could be attacked multiple times and delay the completion. Once you finally complete it tho "Alright lads, job done... get the shells out..." Then an informant comes along and reports that the enemy has moved out of range...

To be honest if were going on to experimental weapons. The most capable weapon that would work are Guided missiles.
Spoiler:
Such as the 60kg Ruhrstahl X-4 with a range of up to 4km
[img][/img]

Neuroi thats a bit too big for the X-4?
Spoiler:
Try the 500kg Henschel HS-117 Schmetterling with a range of 32km it is sure to reach out and send a message to the Alien Invaders
[img][/img]

But suppose the target is a bit further away?
Spoiler:
Then dont fret as the 2.3 ton Fieseler Fi 103 can reach over 200km and wake up them Neuroi, assuming they do sleep
Better known as the V-1, she will shake things up.
[img][/img]

But for the ultimate mother of all destructive delivery systems theres nothing better than the...
Spoiler:
13 ton Aggregat-4 which will stretch out to almost 400km and deliver a punch like no other, known to locals as the V-2, its a force to be feared.
[img][/img]

Now I sound like a Salesperson...

And the most effective aircraft armament against armored targets used in the war would be the Bordekanone 75, which is a 75mm Autoloaded magazine fed cannon for use on the Henschel HS-129
[img][/img]

On the Lighter end of the scale, there is the Bordekanone 37, which is as designated, a smaller 37mm cannon for use in the Junker Ju-87, of which two were carried.
[img][/img]

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 19:17

I'm really, really surprised we haven't gotten a witch with a Stuka Striker yet, given how iconic that plane is.

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:And also, the 20mm rounds used by the Luftwaffe (don't know the specific aircraft) should be at least semi-effective against armoured targets.
They were, but not so much due to the strength of the rounds themselves as the fact that most tanks have very thin roof armour. Fighter bombers can fuck tanks up something fierce.

Air attack = tanks' worst enemy.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ElfenMagix on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 22:37

-ACHTUNG- wrote:Artillery back in the days were not supplied with any armor piercing ammunition. And the usual Neuroi in Afrika are of the armored variety.

And the Tanks themselves are only Matildas, Shermans and Panzer III and IV's with maybe the occasional Tiger.

There are also Striker versions of these as well.

The aformentioned Bofors
[img][/img]
As I said... FIREPOWER...

You know you're talking about WWII here, which Strike Witches is slotted in.
The Japanese did not have such high powered rounds in their Zeros so when they went against the Flying Tigers' P40s, They had a difficult time shooting one down because of P40 amour with their 7.7mm and low powered 20mm rounds. Meanwhile, P40's high powered .50 cal 6 machine guns ate up what the Japanese threw at them!

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Three Dog on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 23:08

I done gone sounded like an idiot again.
But wouldn't the Neuroi notice a V1 or v2 coming and just laser it out of existance? Probably the other rockets as well considering thier ability to laser Sanya's rockets away when she fires at them.
@Nachtsider wrote:I'm really, really surprised we haven't gotten a
witch with a Stuka Striker yet, given how iconic that plane is.
I wonder if the teeth would still be painted on, I think that would be cool .
And as far as the super tanks are concerned:
Witches=strong
600mm cannon=big+powerful
Witch+600mm cannon=
Therefore, take the cannon out of the tank and mount on ten or so well coordinated witches. Just have someone like Yoshika who can raise big ass shields in the front so as to not get lasered out of existance, and shazam, Neuroi gone.
This can also work for bigger cannons as well, but you'd probably only get one shot. Wait... no, they can fire as much as they want, Witches seem to have bottomless clips anyway. Why else would they never carry ammo? (And if anyone says that they don't carry ammo because it would be too cumbersome to fly with, be warned; I will look for, I will find, and I will smay some rather unpleasnt things to you)

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by crazyidiot78 on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 23:19

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:
Witch+600mm cannon=
Therefore, take the cannon out of the tank and mount on ten or so well coordinated witches. Just have someone like Yoshika who can raise big ass shields in the front so as to not get lasered out of existance, and shazam, Neuroi gone.
This can also work for bigger cannons as well, but you'd probably only get one shot. Wait... no, they can fire as much as they want, Witches seem to have bottomless clips anyway. Why else would they never carry ammo? (And if anyone says that they don't carry ammo because it would be too cumbersome to fly with, be warned; I will look for, I will find, and I will smay some rather unpleasnt things to you)

Why can't you just give the cannon to barkhorn she has super strength and all. Sure she probably can't carry a 600mm cannon but a 150mm artillery cannon or 128mm asault cannon at close range is probably just as good. While your at it why not give Sanya the strike witches version of the Katusha. Yoshika can carry the extra ammo for them.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Three Dog on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 23:29

@crazyidiot78 wrote:
Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:
Witch+600mm cannon=
Therefore, take the cannon out of the tank and mount on ten or so well coordinated witches. Just have someone like Yoshika who can raise big ass shields in the front so as to not get lasered out of existance, and shazam, Neuroi gone.
This can also work for bigger cannons as well, but you'd probably only get one shot. Wait... no, they can fire as much as they want, Witches seem to have bottomless clips anyway. Why else would they never carry ammo? (And if anyone says that they don't carry ammo because it would be too cumbersome to fly with, be warned; I will look for, I will find, and I will smay some rather unpleasnt things to you)

Why can't you just give the cannon to barkhorn she has super strength and all. Sure she probably can't carry a 600mm cannon but a 150mm artillery cannon or 128mm asault cannon at close range is probably just as good. While your at it why not give Sanya the strike witches version of the Katusha. Yoshika can carry the extra ammo for them.

Barkhorn- Say hellow to my little friend- hehehehehe
I had though about arming Barkhorn with a howitzer before, or just getting her to carry a whole tank to save the trouble and expense of removing the cannon, if said howitzer was unavalible. She's buff, she can do it. Though with Barkhorn's strengh, she shouldn't even need a gun, just give he vary, very sturdy hammer (possibly made out of dark matter) and tell her that the Neuroi is going to attack wherever her sister is at that time.
Barkhorn: Barkhorn smash!

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Three Dog on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 23:41

No, wait... I have a better idea! All the Witches in the 501st join together to make Witchtamus Prime.
Hehe, now we expand on the Barkhorn carrying a tank idea: Witchtamus Prime carries either the Monster or Ratte.
Witchtamus Prime Neuroi unfotunate enough to get in it's way.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ACH on Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 4:41

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:I done gone sounded like an idiot again.
But wouldn't the Neuroi notice a V1 or v2 coming and just laser it out of existance? Probably the other rockets as well considering thier ability to laser Sanya's rockets away when she fires at them.

Considering that ALL but the V-1 are basically as fast as Bullets, And I have never seen Neuroi shoot down bullets before, then the missiles would have a very high probability of hitting... Besides such missiles are actually capable of going faster than the 800mm shell of the Schwere Gustav.

And as for Stuka Witches, hehe, theres actually some of them in the SW universe already, such as Hanna U. Rudel, armed with the aforementioned Bk 37 cannon. Theres also Porsche who is a (RETIRED) Stuka Witch.

Hanna U. Rudel
Spoiler:
[img][/img]

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by crazyidiot78 on Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 7:15

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by crazyidiot78 on Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 7:29

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Three Dog on Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 18:12

-ACHTUNG- wrote:
Spoiler:
[img][/img]
Aww, the teeth aren't painted on.
Bloody brilliant .

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Awinnell on Wed 25 Apr 2012 - 18:42

The most upgunned aircraft of the war was the B-25 Mitchell bomber

As the need for effective ground support/attack aircraft increased, the B-25 frequently saw field modifications to fulfill this role. Acting on this, North American devised the B-25G which increased the number of guns on the aircraft and included the mounting of a 75 mm cannon in a new solid nose section. These alterations were refined in the B-25H.


In addition to a lighter 75 mm cannon, the B-25H mounted four .50-cal. machine guns below the cockpit as well as four more in cheek blisters. The aircraft saw the return of the tail gunner position and the addition of two waist guns. Capable of carrying 3,000 lbs. of bombs, the B-25H also possessed hard points for eight rockets. The final variant of the aircraft, the B-25J, was a cross between the B-25C/D and the G/H. It saw the removal of the 75 mm gun and the return of the open nose, but the retention of the machine gun armament. Some were built with a solid nose and an increased armament of 18 machine guns.




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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ACH on Thu 26 Apr 2012 - 0:46

The reason I put the Henschel HS 129 over the M-25H is because it was made As a CAS aircraft and had a 75mm gun thats MUCH more potent.

The gun the B-25H mounted was essentially that mounted on the M3 Lee, a Howitzer, low velocity and is woefully equipped to take out armor (is incapable of penetrating a Tiger's frontal aspect from any reasonable range apart from point blank).

Not to mention the B-25H's 75mm is manually loaded, as opposed to the Fully Automatic Pak 40 on the HS-129.

Tho both Aircraft are big and rather easy targets for return fire, the higher potency and rate of fire of the Bk 75 over the T13E1 / M5 puts the Henschel heads and shoulders above the Mitchell when it comes to close anti-tank air support.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Nachtsider on Thu 26 Apr 2012 - 2:20

I do not know of any single instance where the upgunned Mitchell was used for ground support (tank killing, taking out troop concentrations, etc). Airfield strafing, yes. Anti-ship, yes. And then only with fighter escort. All that forward firing armament cannot change the fact that the Mitchell, as far as bombers go, is fairly easy meat for interceptors.

Henschel's tank-killer remains king of close support and tank-killing. No surprise that the Americans took it as the basis for the current A-10 Thunderbolt.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 26 Apr 2012 - 9:12

@Nachtsider wrote:Henschel's tank-killer remains king of close support and tank-killing. No surprise that the Americans took it as the basis for the current A-10 Thunderbolt.

The Republic P-47 Thunderbolt of WWII was no slouch at killing tanks - hence Fairchild-Republic christening the A-10 Thunderbolt II in it's honor. Smile

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ACH on Thu 26 Apr 2012 - 14:26

Just want a striker that allows "low and slow" flight... and carries HEAVY Firepower, in the form of cannons and rockets, if not heavy explosives and missiles.

Su-25

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Three Dog on Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 6:20

-ACHTUNG- wrote:Su-25
Oooooh-Aaaah. Russian designed, nice.

I'd also like to see a Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird made into a Striker Unit. Cruising speed of Mach 3.2, max speed of 3.3+. It has no armourment, but I doubt any Neuroi would be able to hit it to begin with. And it would make Shirley loose her shit Smile.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by crazyidiot78 on Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 8:37

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:
-ACHTUNG- wrote:Su-25
Oooooh-Aaaah. Russian designed, nice.

I'd also like to see a Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird made into a Striker Unit. Cruising speed of Mach 3.2, max speed of 3.3+. It has no armourment, but I doubt any Neuroi would be able to hit it to begin with. And it would make Shirley loose her shit Smile.

Ask you shall recieve. Part of the strikers 1991 project the SR-71 Blackbird striker unit

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Three Dog on Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 8:43

@crazyidiot78 wrote:
Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:
-ACHTUNG- wrote:Su-25
Oooooh-Aaaah. Russian designed, nice.

I'd also like to see a Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird made into a Striker Unit. Cruising speed of Mach 3.2, max speed of 3.3+. It has no armourment, but I doubt any Neuroi would be able to hit it to begin with. And it would make Shirley loose her shit Smile.

Ask you shall recieve. Part of the strikers 1991 project the SR-71 Blackbird striker unit

http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/793545/-q-animal_ears-ass-blonde_hair-bomber_jacket-camer
That... was awsome.
I'm afraid to try and navigate the site after looking at the 'most popular' section.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 8:50

The Blackbird girl's expression is priceless. Why do I get the feeling she isn't on official business?

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ACH on Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 14:34

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:
-ACHTUNG- wrote:Su-25
Oooooh-Aaaah. Russian designed, nice.

I'd also like to see a Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird made into a Striker Unit. Cruising speed of Mach 3.2, max speed of 3.3+. It has no armourment, but I doubt any Neuroi would be able to hit it to begin with. And it would make Shirley loose her shit Smile.

Nah... who needs to go fast... when you can unleash a literal Danmaku of munitions


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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 27 Apr 2012 - 21:36

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:
-ACHTUNG- wrote:Su-25
Oooooh-Aaaah. Russian designed, nice.

I'd also like to see a Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird made into a Striker Unit. Cruising speed of Mach 3.2, max speed of 3.3+. It has no armourment, but I doubt any Neuroi would be able to hit it to begin with. And it would make Shirley loose her shit Smile.
The A 12s/YF 12s were armed versions of the SR-71, their mission: to intercept high speed Soviet Nuclear Bombers heading to the USA and shoot them down with their AIM 47 missiles tucked inside their fuselages. The SR71 and its sister planes is one plane I studied too well.

As for an SR-71 Witch, there are several of them, there's one, though I dont agree with this design...


Besides, Light and plasma is faster than Mach 3. The Neuroi can hit it. They just dont want too or they are more prone to making aiming mistakes than humans...

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Three Dog on Sat 28 Apr 2012 - 3:01

@Nachtsider wrote:The Blackbird girl's expression is priceless. Why do I get the feeling she isn't on official business?
Blackbird Girl: Hehe, these nude photos of the Kardashians will make me rich.

@ElfenMagix wrote:Besides, Light and plasma is faster
than Mach 3. The Neuroi can hit it. They just dont want too or they are
more prone to making aiming mistakes than humans...
The Neuroi have a hard enough time hitting the Witches most of the time. I'd say it's probably an aiming thing. Or lack there of.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 28 Apr 2012 - 19:15

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:Besides, Light and plasma is faster
than Mach 3. The Neuroi can hit it. They just dont want too or they are
more prone to making aiming mistakes than humans...
The Neuroi have a hard enough time hitting the Witches most of the time. I'd say it's probably an aiming thing. Or lack there of.
Unfortunately, when you break Mach .75, you lose maneuverability in order to have speed. Its almost impossible to turn at Mach 1. Much of the A12/YF12/SR71 looses are from trying to turn while too fast of a speed. Its size and shape though great for speed and radar hiding, is awful when yaw and attitude becomes too great and the plane simply disintegrates from the wind forces counteracting against the loss of aerodynamics and wind force resistance goes up exponentially.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 28 Apr 2012 - 19:36

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:The Neuroi have a hard enough time hitting the Witches most of the time. I'd say it's probably an aiming thing. Or lack there of.

@ElfenMagix wrote:Besides, Light and plasma is faster
than Mach 3. The Neuroi can hit it. They just dont want too or they are
more prone to making aiming mistakes than humans...

I hazard this is due to the fact that the Neuroi are fairly mindless for the most part. Hardly anything they've done hints at any sort of complex tactical intellect. Think the Invid shock troopers from Mospeada - fairly good at simple shooting and brawling, but out of their depth where it comes to a high-octane fight that requires smarts and skill.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 28 Apr 2012 - 20:44

@Nachtsider wrote:
Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:The Neuroi have a hard enough time hitting the Witches most of the time. I'd say it's probably an aiming thing. Or lack there of.

@ElfenMagix wrote:Besides, Light and plasma is faster
than Mach 3. The Neuroi can hit it. They just dont want too or they are
more prone to making aiming mistakes than humans...

I hazard this is due to the fact that the Neuroi are fairly mindless for the most part. Hardly anything they've done hints at any sort of complex tactical intellect. Think the Invid shock troopers from Mospeada - fairly good at simple shooting and brawling, but out of their depth where it comes to a high-octane fight that requires smarts and skill.
Sounds like grunt work before the generals dare come in.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by JameyoftheMegacosmos on Tue 1 May 2012 - 8:29

@Nachtsider wrote:
Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:The Neuroi have a hard enough time hitting the Witches most of the time. I'd say it's probably an aiming thing. Or lack there of.

@ElfenMagix wrote:Besides, Light and plasma is faster
than Mach 3. The Neuroi can hit it. They just dont want too or they are
more prone to making aiming mistakes than humans...

I hazard this is due to the fact that the Neuroi are fairly mindless for the most part. Hardly anything they've done hints at any sort of complex tactical intellect. Think the Invid shock troopers from Mospeada - fairly good at simple shooting and brawling, but out of their depth where it comes to a high-octane fight that requires smarts and skill.

I don't think that is always true. I think the Neuroi have some kind of intelligence besides advanced weaponry and go by tactics they quickly switch to when needed. And there are a few out there who could rival a single Witch such as the Warlock.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by crazyidiot78 on Tue 1 May 2012 - 9:16

Well the warlock was a combination of human technology and Neurio. Also I think the human shaped neurio and thehive neurio are the ones controling the grunts seen in th so often
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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Three Dog on Wed 2 May 2012 - 5:58

@JameyoftheMegacosmos wrote:
@Nachtsider wrote:
Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:The Neuroi have a hard enough time hitting the Witches most of the time. I'd say it's probably an aiming thing. Or lack there of.

@ElfenMagix wrote:Besides, Light and plasma is faster
than Mach 3. The Neuroi can hit it. They just dont want too or they are
more prone to making aiming mistakes than humans...

I hazard this is due to the fact that the Neuroi are fairly mindless for the most part. Hardly anything they've done hints at any sort of complex tactical intellect. Think the Invid shock troopers from Mospeada - fairly good at simple shooting and brawling, but out of their depth where it comes to a high-octane fight that requires smarts and skill.

I don't think that is always true. I think the Neuroi have some kind of intelligence besides advanced weaponry and go by tactics they quickly switch to when needed. And there are a few out there who could rival a single Witch such as the Warlock.

@crazyidiot78 wrote:Well the warlock was a combination of human
technology and Neurio. Also I think the human shaped neurio and thehive
neurio are the ones controling the grunts seen in th so often

Both very good points. I had always thought of the Neuroi that the Witches normally end up fighting more like automatons than actual beings, the 'grunts', so to speak. However, Neuroi as a whole work as a sort of hive mind, so what one sees the others can see, including the hive, which I see as the 'queen'. From this the programming of the lesser 'grunt' Neuroi can be altered to add new tacticts to deal with the witches. The human form Neuroi, which are the Neuroi equivilent of SAS or Spetsnaz, however have more advanced programming to begin with, as well as being able to alter thier programming on the run, so to speak, thus do not have to wait for any lag from the 'queen' when getting new tactics with which to deal with the Witches.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ACH on Sat 5 May 2012 - 1:11

Think of Neuroi as like the Zerg of Starcraft fame. They like to spread about and all answer to one mind.

Anyways. Lets think about the girls who ARENT witches, those who has no experience with magic at all, Lets not leave them behind.

Now I think This is a viable solution (and also more down to earth realistic)

The idea is we take Yves Rossy's Proof of Concept Jet,wing:
Spoiler:

And we Cross it with a suitable light fighter aircraft design:
Spoiler:

And the last, most important step, we cross it with a girl to get the result:
Spoiler:

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Three Dog on Sat 5 May 2012 - 5:52

-ACHTUNG- wrote:Think of Neuroi as like the Zerg of Starcraft fame. They like to spread about and all answer to one mind.

Anyways. Lets think about the girls who ARENT witches, those who has no experience with magic at all, Lets not leave them behind.

Now I think This is a viable solution (and also more down to earth realistic)

The idea is we take Yves Rossy's Proof of Concept Jet,wing:
Spoiler:

And we Cross it with a suitable light fighter aircraft design:
Spoiler:

And the last, most important step, we cross it with a girl to get the result:
Spoiler:
Looks a bit elaborate. And what would the power source be? I'm not to sure about millitary aircraft, but I know civilian ones such as a Boing 747 are basically tubes with fuel tanks shaped like wings attached. And where would she carry her ammo? The witches are able to use bigger, higher capacity weapons because of thier magic, these sort of gals would have to use rifles and SMGs. So not only would they have less ammo ('cause I see no pockets on the gal to carry more ammo), but thier weapons would also be of lower calibre. One exception would be if they used the FG42 which was designed for paratroppers, thus lightweight. It does only use 10 or 20 round magazines, but it would still hold more ammo than a Mauser/M1 Garand/etcetera and be more powerful than a SMG.

Might be easier just to train them to use the fighters.

It's a cool loking picture though, and I think you may be onto something with the idea. (Dammit, now all I'm picturing is an Ironman suit. Razz )

P.S. I want one of those Jet Wing things, they look fun.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 5 May 2012 - 6:13

-ACHTUNG- wrote:Anyways. Lets think about the girls who ARENT witches, those who has no experience with magic at all, Lets not leave them behind.
Girls like that should be left behind to cook and clean on the homefront.

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:Looks a bit elaborate. And what would the power source be? I'm not to sure about millitary aircraft, but I know civilian ones such as a Boing 747 are basically tubes with fuel tanks shaped like wings attached. And where would she carry her ammo?
Power source? Back-mounted jet engines with fuel tanks in the wings. Weapons and ammo can be carried as external gun pods. Range and endurance probably won't be high, but that's no issue if such units are employed as interceptors.

Destroyer of Worlds ;D wrote:The witches are able to use bigger, higher capacity weapons because of thier magic, these sort of gals would have to use rifles and SMGs. So not only would they have less ammo ('cause I see no pockets on the gal to carry more ammo), but thier weapons would also be of lower calibre. One exception would be if they used the FG42 which was designed for paratroppers, thus lightweight. It does only use 10 or 20 round magazines, but it would still hold more ammo than a Mauser/M1 Garand/etcetera and be more powerful than a SMG.
See gun pod argument above for ammo. I love the Krieghoff and all, but good luck taking down a Neuroi ship with one of those things unless you've modified it to take drum mags. The thing's an ammo-eater on full-auto, and recoil on that mode can be a bitch for a smaller-framed user (i.e. a female).

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Three Dog on Sat 5 May 2012 - 7:56

@Nachtsider wrote:
-ACHTUNG- wrote:Anyways. Lets think about the girls who ARENT witches, those who has no experience with magic at all, Lets not leave them behind.
Girls like that should be left behind to cook and clean on the homefront.
They already were from what I could tell. Seriously, try and find an elnlisted gal that wasn't a Witch. I dare you.

Natchsider wrote:Power source? Back-mounted jet engines with fuel tanks in the wings.
Weapons and ammo can be carried as external gun pods. Range and
endurance probably won't be high, but that's no issue if such units are
employed as interceptors.
Since we're using modern stuff anyway, why not go one step further and get a little fururistic? Miniature fission plants on thier backs. Or hamsters on wheels! Yes, that one would be much more fun.

Natchsider wrote:See gun pod argument above for ammo. I
love the Krieghoff and all, but good luck taking down a Neuroi ship
with one of those things unless you've modified it to take drum mags.
The thing's an ammo-eater on full-auto, and recoil on that mode can be a
bitch for a smaller-framed user (i.e. a female).
The Witches have used the MG42 before and that fires the same 7.92 x 57mm Mauser round that the FG42 uses. As far as accuracy is concerned, how often do the Witches aim exactly? You could probably count the number of times on one hand. more often than not they fire from the hip. Secondly, they don't have to use it on full-auto, Semi-auto is just fine, especially since the FG42 can use a scope, meaing that long range combat would be preferable and put the gal that can't raise any shield s because she isn't a Witch in slightly less danger.

P.S. I am going to keep referring to non-Witch combatants as 'gals'. Cool name for 'em, eh? 'Strike Witches' fighting alongside 'Strike Gals'. Works for the other squadrons as well:
- 'Mighty Witches', 'Mighty Gals'
- 'Noble Witches', 'Noble Gals'
- 'Silent Witches', 'Silent Gals'
- 'Brave Witches', 'Brave Gals'
- 'Typhoon Witches', 'Typhoon Gals'
- 'Ardor Witches', 'Ardor Gals'
- 'Mirage Witches', 'Mirage Gals'
- 'Storm Witches', 'Storm Gals'
Here's the formula: (Aerial Combat + Being Female) - Magical ability = Gal

I get the horrible feeling I just shot myslef in the foot somehow...


Last edited by Destroyer of Worlds ;D on Sat 5 May 2012 - 7:57; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Makin' it easier to read)

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 5 May 2012 - 8:23

My analysis of Strike Witches indicates that full-auto is absolutely necessarily, being used to destroy the structural integrity of a Neuroi ship's armour (i.e. shred the plating with a continuous hail of rounds) and expose the vulnerable core. Unless of course we're talking heavy weapons like Lynette's anti-tank BFG and Sanya's rocket launcher, but those cannot be compared to rifle-caliber stuff on account of the strength of their payload. Why do you think the guns mounted on fighter planes are automatic weapons? You won't take down a Neuroi ship with a semiauto rifle.

I'll somewhat concede you the thing about aiming. Most of the time, the Witches' targets are so damned huge they can totally afford to fire from the hip. Then again, this might actually be due to the fact that they use tracers to aim, or perhaps have some sort of magic visual targeting system that doesn't require them to raise their guns to their shoulders. Plus, recoil issues aren't always related to keeping the gun on target. Sometimes, you just don't want your gun to jump around in your hand too much; it might also compromise aerial manoeuvring.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ACH on Sat 5 May 2012 - 8:46

Destroyer...

Yves Rossy's Jetwing works, he crossed the English Channel, Flew over the Alps (with some L-39's) and he's on his way to fly through the Grand Canyon (through, not across). He's working on a version that is fully aerobatic and has ground takeoff capabilities.

Now as for Fission Plants, A "Little bit" futuristic wont cut it, I have studied a bit of Nuclear Reactor design and theres no possible way of carrying a critical mass of any fissile material to fit in a car sized objects, No amount of technology will solve that. As for Nuclear Fusion tho, Its possible to actually make a Fusion reactor at home, Its just not powerful enough, the power density of fusion is quite a bit less than fission, and theres the problem of 300 million degree reaction temperatures, now considering that the temperature at the sun's CORE is only a svelte 15 million degrees... Its a bit hot.

Running the things without any form of Magic is quite easy actually. It might weigh quite a lot, but a pair of optimally designed turbofan's with a good amount of fuel in the wings will solve that. Now this is talking modern technology.

If we take into account the technology of the era in the SW universe, they are capable of designing Jet engines In sizes small enough for the job (see V1).
Now it would be quite bulky on the ground, but hey aerial striker units dont have knee joints, and this one has, plus landing gear for the feet. Steering is accomplished by simply looking at where one wants to go. High G maneuvers only needs movement of the arms and legs (who has control surfaces).

For Weapons, Rocket Pods or autocannons (in pods or integrated), Missiles (look for an older post of mine). As for ammo, they be carrying quite a bit. Advantages include Much less Drag (for actually fairing over a bit of the body) and carrying the weapons internally. More predictable operating range, since its based on the amount of fuel it carries and not magic heeby jeebies, also can be extended by droptanks. More maneuverability as well, as you actually have proper control surfaces to manipulate the air with. Less complex systems as to not involve the use of a magic system. Integrated protection for the user.

Disadvantage tho, includes larger size and weight, especially noticeable on the ground (tho Aero strikers are even worse as they cant even be used ON the ground). No Magic shields (obviously).

So all in all, this would allow one of these things to basically carry the firepower of the entire 501st in a faster, more maneuverable but larger craft. Projected armament would be 20-30mm autocannons (singly or multiple), Rocket pods of 37-130mm caliber, MCLOS Guided missiles, Bombs up to 50lbs.


A vid of Yves Rossy's Wingjet:
Spoiler:

An Me262 Lorin version:
Spoiler:

An Li P13a:
Spoiler:

In conclusion, something that is actually viable in RL, and would be a few levels more potent in a fantasy injected universe such as SW's



Last edited by -ACHTUNG- on Sat 5 May 2012 - 8:55; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 5 May 2012 - 8:54

Mother of god, that 262 design is badass.

You know, this makes me wonder. Would Strike Witches have worked just as well minus all the magical elements, with the Striker Units being purely technology based? I think it very well could have. Thinking things over, nothing would've been ruined with wholly technological Witches, with their name being a mere symbolic thing rather than literal.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ACH on Sat 5 May 2012 - 8:55

Since they had the Vic Viper's as the Warlocks... DUN DUN DUN

Its already done so well with one Alien race, why not use it on another?
Spoiler:

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Three Dog on Sat 5 May 2012 - 9:00

Mr. Natchsider, how would shotguns fair? Loaded with either sabots or
flechettes (solid slugs might work as well), thier neccessity for
automatic fire is nutralisesed as well has problems with aiming.
However, they are in more danger having to be closer to the target.
-ACHTUNG- wrote:Yves Rossy's Jetwing works, he
crossed the English Channel, Flew over the Alps (with some L-39's) and
he's on his way to fly through the Grand Canyon (through, not across).
He's working on a version that is fully aerobatic and has ground takeoff
capabilities.
I never doubted that they actually existed or worked, just that the technology of the era would be problematic.
-ACHTUNG- wrote:Now as for Fission Plants, A "Little bit" futuristic wont cut it, I have
studied a bit of Nuclear Reactor design and theres no possible way of
carrying a critical mass of any fissile material to fit in a car sized
objects, No amount of technology will solve that. As for Nuclear Fusion
tho, Its possible to actually make a Fusion reactor at home, Its just
not powerful enough, the power density of fusion is quite a bit less
than fission, and theres the problem of 300 million degree reaction
temperatures, now considering that the temperature at the sun's CORE is
only a svelte 15 million degrees... Its a bit hot.
The temperature of the fussion plant is the reason I never suggested it,
if they had that tech they would use it to destroy the Hives. And I got
the Idea of Fission from Halo books (It's what powers teh Mjolnir armour).
-ACHTUNG- wrote:So all in all, this would allow one of these things to basically carry
the firepower of the entire 501st in a faster, more maneuverable but
larger craft. Projected armament would be 20-30mm autocannons (singly or
multiple), Rocket pods of 37-130mm caliber, MCLOS Guided missiles,
Bombs up to 50lbs.
The Witches are now obsolete. Go Strike Gals cheers.

-ACHTUNG- wrote:An Me262 Lorin version:
Spoiler:
She seems a little, um... Exposed Wink.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ACH on Sat 5 May 2012 - 9:03

I would suggest Grenade Launchers... In fact... I would suggest explosives over everything else.

As for the Technology of the Era being problematic, They made The V-1 work, and it doesnt even have a person in it. The SW universe is even better of, with miniaturization technology that allowed the Strikers to be invented.

And being exposed is of no concern when it comes to war...

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 5 May 2012 - 9:10

Shotguns are good apart from the range issue. A Neuroi could take you out before you get close enough to do damage.

Ach is right when he says heavier stuff is the way to go. Look at the Japanese missions against the Superfortress raids, which almost parallel the Witches' missions against the huge Neuroi ships - the weapons that worked best were cannons of 37mm caliber and up. Were I a Witch, I'd opt for a heavy-caliber, semi-automatic, bazooka-type weapon, something like a magazine-fed Panzershreck. The idea ammo would be a mix of armour-piercing rounds and rounds with proximity fuses, so they can do damage by air-bursting near the target and not just with direct hits.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ACH on Sat 5 May 2012 - 9:27

Lets blend in and be unnoticeable (not only is it invisible from radar, it also looks a bit like a Neuroi)

Spoiler:

She has animal Characteristics, with Leg mounted wingpacks, this is like a crossover between two technologies. oh and LOTS OF MISSILES, and some drop tanks for range as well.

Spoiler:

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 5 May 2012 - 9:44

Why the hell hasn't anyone designed Figmas or Revoltechs of these? I'd totally buy the hell out of them.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ACH on Sat 5 May 2012 - 9:49

Because its made by one relatively unknown person, who I think has made a PSP/3 game I think. Certainly not as well known as Shimada Humikane. Online Name of the fellow is Yone88 or Yonezuka Ryou.

Still all of them look quite a lot better than the usual iteration of Mecha Musume out there, Like the Yukikaze one especially.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 5 May 2012 - 9:58

He should whore out his designs to Bandai and get rich. Everybody wins.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Awinnell on Sat 5 May 2012 - 9:58

SCHRÄGE MUSIK vertical firing guns,maybe the witches could strap on several guns and fly under the Neuroi ?


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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 5 May 2012 - 10:17

I think the fact that the Witches can hover and the fact that their weapons are handheld makes the upward-firing cannons superfluous. All they need to do is hover in a a roughly 'on their back' position and fire straight up.

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by ACH on Sat 5 May 2012 - 10:21

Rockets. Not the Puny stuff Sanya Uses... coz those are a bit hopelessly slow, I mean big stuff such as the RP-3 Rockets, 60lbs of explosives... or a solid 3 inch penetrator (like one massive steel, rocket powered arrow)

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Re: Striker unit ideas

Post by Three Dog on Sat 5 May 2012 - 23:30

-ACHTUNG- wrote:Rockets. Not the Puny stuff Sanya Uses... coz those are a bit hopelessly slow, I mean big stuff such as the RP-3 Rockets, 60lbs of explosives... or a solid 3 inch penetrator (like one massive steel, rocket powered arrow)
Or... A ROCKET PROPELLED FIST! on a string so you can use over and over again .
Back to reality now, for rockets the Gals might be able to get away with something like a Javelin. I've seen picturtes of what one of thos can do to an M1 Abrahms. Now, considering the how Neuroi armour has trouble at reppeling bullets, and Abrahms armour doesn't (as far as I know anyway, correct me if I'm wrong), the flying beem monters are screwed. Or for a more lightweight solution, the XM-25. Can use FLechettes, Armour peircing and Air Burst grenades.

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