Scaling your Loadouts

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Scaling your Loadouts

Post by John_234 on Thu 10 Jan 2013 - 5:26

One thing I noticed, is few writers have separate guns for winter clothing, or different rifle setups for CQB versus working in the boonies, or even a different set of armor when its hot out. IMO, tools like firearms are as malleable as the wardrobe to someone who depends on them during their day job.

I guess its probably rarely done just because the immense amount of research and work that goes into this sort of detail.

Have you guys made any considerations of how a character's kit changes from climate to climate, job to job and such?

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Odon on Thu 10 Jan 2013 - 6:23

I had Triela change to a UMP from her shotgun when working in the mountains, and Rico handing over her Dragunov for a Hecate. Figured longer range would come in handy, though I remember thinking afterwards that I should have had Triela with a folding stock paratroop rifle (for longer range, but one she can hide in her backpack).

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 10 Jan 2013 - 11:01

In my Original Series fiction, I chose the HK XM8 for Kara because of it's flexibility as a weapon system. It could be a carbine, a PDW, a sharpshooter or a light machine gun. For pistols, I gave Kara and Michele the HK P2000SK because of it's compact size.



For Pactio, I went with Fabrique Nationale de Herstal and that required me to have multiple weapons. I chose the Five_seveN for the pistol and P90 for the PDW since both uses 5.7x28mm. For heavier work, Kara wielded the F2000 or the SCAR-H.

I also decided her specialty would be sniping, so she has the AMP DSR-1 "Subsonic" for "city work" and the Barrett XM500 when she needs to "reach out and fuck-up somebody".


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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by John_234 on Thu 10 Jan 2013 - 12:06

@Odon wrote:I had Triela change to a UMP from her shotgun when working in the mountains, and Rico handing over her Dragunov for a Hecate. Figured longer range would come in handy, though I remember thinking afterwards that I should have had Triela with a folding stock paratroop rifle (for longer range, but one she can hide in her backpack).

The Dragunov, interestingly enough has a folding stock paratrooper variant. It would probably not fit into any backpack short of an actual hiking pack. That was pretty lucid of you changing from the SVD as it basically a DMR sort of tool.

In Triela's situation, an SMG is somewhat of a horizontal move, so depending on how much fighting close up vs how much she dug about the woods, some sort of assault rifle or battle rifle might have been the flavor of the day - just not that monstrosity we call the G3 xD

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by John_234 on Thu 10 Jan 2013 - 12:35

@Kiskaloo wrote:In my Original Series fiction, I chose the HK XM8 for Kara because of it's flexibility as a weapon system. It could be a carbine, a PDW, a sharpshooter or a light machine gun. For pistols, I gave Kara and Michele the HK P2000SK because of it's compact size.

For Pactio, I went with Fabrique Nationale de Herstal and that required me to have multiple weapons. I chose the Five_seveN for the pistol and P90 for the PDW since both uses 5.7x28mm. For heavier work, Kara wielded the F2000 or the SCAR-H.

I also decided her specialty would be sniping, so she has the AMP DSR-1 "Subsonic" for "city work" and the Barrett XM500 when she needs to "reach out and fuck-up somebody".

The HK is a pretty good all-purpose gun, analogous in size to a Glock 19. I made a pretty weird decision when Amsel and Luce had their first fiction - Luce had a Sig P226 X-Five. That's a massive single action gun meant for competition. It made no sense for anything that wasn't them decked out in tac gear.

In this case, Sig doesn't make anything "handy dandy Glock 19 sized" that works well concealed with enough rounds to do most work except say, the P250 (which suffers reliability issues.) So, Luce ended up with the Commander-sized 1911.

But that looked like a bit of a leap, so I wrote in that Luce had used the Sig P225 and the P220 .45 for daily carry and fighting respectively. He carry 1911 got a shortened grip for easier carry, while the fullsize became the larger direct action gun.

For other characters I saw an evolution with people carrying two handguns since switching to another weapon is faster than reloading or clearing a jam. They could just remove one gun to scale their loadouts on the fly. Austin is notable example.

With the "city sniping" you might just run a SCAR-H with a good rifle sight and a suppressor, I think. Its more than mechanically accurate enough to do good work up to several hundred yards.

Its interesting to note that the Hk approach doesn't leave you with a whole lot of options for a 7.62x51 weapons, it seems.

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Alfisti on Fri 11 Jan 2013 - 1:27

@Kiskaloo wrote:I also decided her specialty would be sniping, so she has the AMP DSR-1 "Subsonic" for "city work" and the Barrett XM500 when she needs to "reach out and fuck-up somebody".
I know I had Kara use her DSR-1 in And the Adventure Continues for a city role.

Jethro + Monty are of course a bit constrained by their role and situation, so lugging a number of options with them hither and thither is not really practical. They have picked up weapons when the opportunity presented, and were given a Jungle Carbine when they visited Colombia... but that latter was very much more a styalistic choice than a practical one as being in keeping with a "1930's jungle adventure" vibe (and yes, I know the carbine was an offshoot of WWII - but it was British and bolt action and felt right). Concious loadout changes: not so much.

Danilo and C.Raych... honestly I'm not far enough down the track with them though I imagined they'd carry different weapons depending on what they were doing; though in-story Raych has barely managed to graduate off her pistol.

Of course, sometimes sending characters in with a not-so-optimal loadout is fun as well Very Happy

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by John_234 on Fri 11 Jan 2013 - 2:51

Yeah, it is a bit harder to scale your gear up when you're acquiring stuff in the field.

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Piero on Sun 13 Jan 2013 - 20:12

I'll admit I don't tend to like to vary the pistols my characters carry too much, because sometimes I don't want a character's weapons list to get too lengthy (though it depends on the character). Some of the characters who carry full size models might occasionally carry something smaller when off duty and dressing more casually, but on duty they tend to wear a blazer or something. And with a character like Sabina who generally carries a small pistol, I tend to go for something like a Makarov or S&W 3913 that isn't so small that the ergonomics compromise its accuracy.

I do tend to vary things some with larger weapons. Diana's signature weapon is her G3-SG/1, but she might actually be more likely to have her HK53 with her when out and about. And Alessia has several very big guns to choose from in addition to her usual rifle (which had been a FAMAS G2, though as of late I've been favoring the idea of something like a Colt Model 733. Her handler served with the French Foreign Legion, but many elite French troops like AR type carbines).

Although I do have a tendency to treat short barreled rifles like the HK53, AKS-74U, and Colt Commando variants as being suitable for general purpose use in spite of the fact that realistically assault rifles with such short barrels should have significant limitations for long range work compared to full size assault rifles of the same calibre. Then again, how often is a GSG going to be engaging targets at long range on anything other than a sniping assignment?

I am kind of fond of using a systems based approach to primary weapons selection at times. For instance Diana's arsenal includes a G3-SG/1, HK53, MP5K, and possibly an MP5SD, which are all built by the same manufacturer, have the same operating principles, and have fairly similar controls. I've also though something like a Colt Commando and an AR-10T style weapon would make a good pair.

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by John_234 on Tue 15 Jan 2013 - 21:12

@Piero wrote:I'll admit I don't tend to like to vary the pistols my characters carry too much, because sometimes I don't want a character's weapons list to get too lengthy (though it depends on the character). Some of the characters who carry full size models might occasionally carry something smaller when off duty and dressing more casually, but on duty they tend to wear a blazer or something. And with a character like Sabina who generally carries a small pistol, I tend to go for something like a Makarov or S&W 3913 that isn't so small that the ergonomics compromise its accuracy.

I do tend to vary things some with larger weapons. Diana's signature weapon is her G3-SG/1, but she might actually be more likely to have her HK53 with her when out and about. And Alessia has several very big guns to choose from in addition to her usual rifle (which had been a FAMAS G2, though as of late I've been favoring the idea of something like a Colt Model 733. Her handler served with the French Foreign Legion, but many elite French troops like AR type carbines).

Although I do have a tendency to treat short barreled rifles like the HK53, AKS-74U, and Colt Commando variants as being suitable for general purpose use in spite of the fact that realistically assault rifles with such short barrels should have significant limitations for long range work compared to full size assault rifles of the same calibre. Then again, how often is a GSG going to be engaging targets at long range on anything other than a sniping assignment?

I am kind of fond of using a systems based approach to primary weapons selection at times. For instance Diana's arsenal includes a G3-SG/1, HK53, MP5K, and possibly an MP5SD, which are all built by the same manufacturer, have the same operating principles, and have fairly similar controls. I've also though something like a Colt Commando and an AR-10T style weapon would make a good pair.

The problem I had with this stuff was say, arming MP5's OC, June, or giving a woman who wore form-hugging clothing like Elise a functional weapon that wasn't a poodle shooter. There's stuff like the Beretta Tomcat or the Seecamp .32, the latter small enough to fit into a pack of cigarettes, but you start having issues with firepower and mechanical reliability. I personally think the sweet spot is having a compact gun that's still 100% reliable and 9mm if you can manage - like the Glock 19, the Kahr P9, the S&W "Ladysmith" and so forth.

That's when I switched back to traditional options like .380 blowback designs. Elise ended up with a Walther PP, for example. Gene has a Beretta 84 and a Cz82. Ross carried a Glock 27 until the reliability posed an issue, then went to the Ruger LCR, which is just about J-frame sized.

In June's case, the 1911 lightweight commander I opted for in the end is still a bit too big for an adolescent to really use, so we planned on changing to a Glock 36 or similar down the road. It's not recoil, or weight that's an issue for a cyborg with enhanced strength in my opinion - its dimensions, ergonomics.

It's why I personally dislike the G3 series as a weapon for my characters, because they've been plagued by issues with length of pull for many adults, even. They're just too long for most people, so I can't see what's ostensibly a teenager or adolescent using them.

A very short gun can be used in a pinch. A very long gun might not be usable with the constraints of your own physique. Farin's Galil has a shortened stock to accommodate her, MP5's June as of now has an RFB. Nothing against the G3 series - they're very cool guns, I just think they're not the best choice for smaller people.

However, since you like H&K and you like ARs, consider the HK416 series. Piston-driven AR-15s. The French are considering them as general issue rifles from my understanding, and they see widespread use in Europe and in the US. It comes in a variety of sizes from 16'' rifle to a PDW-like size. They also make the HK417, which is an AR-10-like rifle but also piston driven. I realize going all AR is pretty boring, but its fairly logical from an ergonomics standpoint - they're probably the most flexible rifles I know so far as end-user customization is concerned.

As far as SBRs like the HK-53, AR-15 SBRs and AKS-74U go, you do sacrifice lethality and they are nasty to shoot. But you have to understand those guns are designed basically to offer superior ballistics to SMGs in the same size. 5.56 has a limited range with a short barrel - you can make shots to like, 300 ish meters still, but they're still limited to a good fragmentation range of about a hundred meters with M855 ammo out of a 10'' barrel or so. BUT, even then they can penetrate soft armor with normal ammo and screw up ceramic plates.

I'm a fan of the .300 Blackout since it swaps into 5.56 weapons and gives a very good effective range from very short barrels, but it has issues like bullet drop and limited availability. Everything has its own pros and cons.

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Piero on Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 3:26

Isn't length of pull going to be a problem with most military issue weapons that don't have a length adjustable buttstock? They usually aren't designed with little girls in mind.

I generally consider my first gen OCs to be operating circa 2007 or so, but even given that my choices for their weaponry tends to be a bit dated. I guess I like the clean lines aesthetics of a lot of older weapons, something which can get lost a bit once you get into era of modern rail pimp guns. Probably not the most practical approach, but then there are times where I don't think the canon girls' weapons are necessarily the most modern or practical ones either. Really, shouldn't the SWA's weaponry be a bit more standardized?

Alessia's handler is an acquaintance of Olga's and served in the Soviet/Russian Army before signing up with the Foreign Legion when conditions in his own country's army got really bad during the 90s. For this reason I think it would be awesome if he had his cyborg used a direct impingement AR type rifle. Just imagine the rage of all the AR haters if a Russian character were to put his trust in a direct impingement AR. Smile

One of my second gen OCs uses a short barreled HK416 though. With her I wanted to go for something modern and practical. (My second Gens exist in a separate continuity from the first Gens, and aren't stuck back in 2007.)

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by John_234 on Sat 19 Jan 2013 - 4:54

@Piero wrote:Isn't length of pull going to be a problem with most military issue weapons that don't have a length adjustable buttstock? They usually aren't designed with little girls in mind.
What I'm saying is most older rifles like the G3 are big and clumsy even for the men they were designed for, something only exacerbated by giving them to a smaller shooter. Frankly, I just don't think the G3 is a very good weapon when you have the ability to use a FAL and whatnot. If I were to equip a cyborg with one though, it'd definitely have some form of collapsing stock with extra adjustment notches cut into it, maybe even a barrel chop for better handling.

@Piero wrote:I generally consider my first gen OCs to be operating circa 2007 or so, but even given that my choices for their weaponry tends to be a bit dated. I guess I like the clean lines aesthetics of a lot of older weapons, something which can get lost a bit once you get into era of modern rail pimp guns. Probably not the most practical approach, but then there are times where I don't think the canon girls' weapons are necessarily the most modern or practical ones either. Really, shouldn't the SWA's weaponry be a bit more standardized?
In direct action jobs where they're supposed to kill a bunch of terrorists in a controlled setting, yeah, standardization is logical. However, I do think there is merit to using such a motley array of weaponry for everyday work, where standardization would make the fact that they're part of a government agency more obvious.

Funny enough though, there's always been a desire for guns with less rail and less things to snag, and we've seen a lot of AK users ditching railed handguards in favor of an ultimak rail, or AR guys going with slick handguards. There's a whole slew of non-railed options out there if you look.

Of course, this is all dependent on how logical the character's equipment is supposed to seem in character anyway. Some characters have less ability to acquire high-end modern equipment, others have a stated preference for older stuff, or some characters just make decisions they know are not ideal. That said, a majority of guns just work, so in the end you can do almost anything.

@Piero wrote:Alessia's handler is an acquaintance of Olga's and served in the Soviet/Russian Army before signing up with the Foreign Legion when conditions in his own country's army got really bad during the 90s. For this reason I think it would be awesome if he had his cyborg used a direct impingement AR type rifle. Just imagine the rage of all the AR haters if a Russian character were to put his trust in a direct impingement AR. Smile

One of my second gen OCs uses a short barreled HK416 though. With her I wanted to go for something modern and practical. (My second Gens exist in a separate continuity from the first Gens, and aren't stuck back in 2007.)
In this day and age, it's really not unheard of. It's pretty well established that direct impingement works. You could definitely acquire a Diemco C-series rifle or a Colt M4A1 and have it completely make sense. I didn't suggest the 416 because the gas piston makes it somehow largely superior - it was more to do with how it was being considered for use with the French, and how very common it is becoming.

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Odon on Tue 22 Jan 2013 - 5:14

@John_234 wrote:
@Odon wrote:I had Triela change to a UMP from her shotgun when working in the mountains, and Rico handing over her Dragunov for a Hecate. Figured longer range would come in handy, though I remember thinking afterwards that I should have had Triela with a folding stock paratroop rifle (for longer range, but one she can hide in her backpack).

The Dragunov, interestingly enough has a folding stock paratrooper variant. It would probably not fit into any backpack short of an actual hiking pack. That was pretty lucid of you changing from the SVD as it basically a DMR sort of tool.

In Triela's situation, an SMG is somewhat of a horizontal move, so depending on how much fighting close up vs how much she dug about the woods, some sort of assault rifle or battle rifle might have been the flavor of the day - just not that monstrosity we call the G3 xD

I think I'll change Rico's sniper rifle to the Walther WA2000. I realise that cuts down the range a bit, but I always thought the Hecate was a bit too unwieldy to haul up a mountain for a small girl like Rico. Besides I'd like to throw in a comment about how the Agency got their hands on such a rare weapon in the first place (confiscated from a Camorra moneyman) and how they're real nervous about letting it out of the armoury for that reason. Wink

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by John_234 on Tue 22 Jan 2013 - 14:47

@Odon wrote:
@John_234 wrote:
@Odon wrote:I had Triela change to a UMP from her shotgun when working in the mountains, and Rico handing over her Dragunov for a Hecate. Figured longer range would come in handy, though I remember thinking afterwards that I should have had Triela with a folding stock paratroop rifle (for longer range, but one she can hide in her backpack).

The Dragunov, interestingly enough has a folding stock paratrooper variant. It would probably not fit into any backpack short of an actual hiking pack. That was pretty lucid of you changing from the SVD as it basically a DMR sort of tool.

In Triela's situation, an SMG is somewhat of a horizontal move, so depending on how much fighting close up vs how much she dug about the woods, some sort of assault rifle or battle rifle might have been the flavor of the day - just not that monstrosity we call the G3 xD

I think I'll change Rico's sniper rifle to the Walther WA2000. I realise that cuts down the range a bit, but I always thought the Hecate was a bit too unwieldy to haul up a mountain for a small girl like Rico. Besides I'd like to throw in a comment about how the Agency got their hands on such a rare weapon in the first place (confiscated from a Camorra moneyman) and how they're real nervous about letting it out of the armoury for that reason. Wink

Honestly, I think there's far better choices than the WA2000. There were only 176 made and each rifle sells for almost $40,000. They're so few that even having one would be an instant idenfitier of the user either being a government entity or very very rich.

I understand their use is canon, but even then I'm not so inclined to agree it was a logical choice. It seemed to illustrate that 'Etta was pampered by expensive equipment more than anything.

Even where performance is concerned, the WA2000 is a very accurate weapon - but its ultimately 1970s technology. Your average civilian can build a gun that's just as accurate with good ammo and research for far less. You get the same issue with say, the PSG-1, which by this point in time is very good, but is no longer a king in semi-auto precision rifles.

PSG-1s are a dead ringer for a government agency too, but they're actually used by a lot of European militaries. You also have the FR bolt guns, the AI rifles and a whole lot of European hunting rifles. Plus all the custom built ARs and Mauser pattern bolt guns. FN offers complete precision rifle, optic, mags and rifle case packages.

.308s can be used to almost a kilometer effectively. Similar for a 54r. You start needing more dakka past that and go into 12.7 or .338, but you may not necessarily need a Hecate if that fits your range envelope.

Though, ultimately GSG itself makes a lot of styllistic choices, so if the instantly identifiable nature of the WA2000 just adds to the story and the performance fits the bill, I guess that's that.

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Kurosaka "Ery" Erika on Tue 22 Jan 2013 - 15:42

for the most expensive sniper rifle produced, i wonder how do the SWA acquire WA2000 from the first place? XD

i have my reason why Yuki was equip with L96AWP/AWS n_n

since AI Artic warfare sniper rifle is well know for it's ability in Ice warfare, allowing it to be used effectively at temperatures as low as −40 ฐC. AW sniper rifle also adaptable in any warfare (as i find it myself)

changeable caliber, this versatile sniper rifle can swicth from .308 magnum round to 7.62x51mm round.The rifles were fitted with Schmidt & Bender Military MK II 3-12x50 scope, offering the operator more flexibility to shoot at varying ranges, or in situations when a wide field of view is required.

Currently, Sako TRG is the only rifle that is the same par with AI AW sniper rifle.

Also in her disposal is RT-20(support weapon), M200 Cheyenne Tactical(long range sniping) and Barrett M95(backup sniper rifle)

for her sidearm, her sidearm can be vary according to each mission.

SIG sauer pistol series- she can use any SIG pistol offered to her, although she prefer SIG Sauer GSR.
Beretta Raffica- used if there's any urban area battle, she usually use it along with her MK14 battle rifle.
STI 2011- she usually use this pistol when in undercover
Beretta 92 INOX- her secondary sidearm.usually holstered in her back.


Last but not least, she also use SWA issued SCAR-H with desirable optic suited for different mission Razz
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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by FearTheLASERFACE on Tue 22 Jan 2013 - 20:03

How about this?

Dragonuv SVU

Basically a bullpup version of the Dragonuv SVD, where the magazine goes behind the grip, allowing the overall length of the gun to be shortened without loss of performance since bullpup weapons allow for more potential barrel length. I plan to have this gun appear in my own fics in lieu of the SVD.
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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Odon on Tue 22 Jan 2013 - 20:28

Kuroneko wrote:for the most expensive sniper rifle produced, i wonder how do the SWA acquire WA2000 from the first place? XD

The way I see it, either they inherited it from an Italian military or police anti-terrorist unit that bought one for evaluation back in the 1980's, or they confiscated it from the private arsenal of someone they targeted - either a wealthy RF backer or a Camorra boss - who had the wealth to indulge their passion for rare firearms.


The weapon was more accurate at these longer ranges, and the bullpup design made it easier to haul up the cliff, but Rico would have preferred her Dragunov. When Jean had signed the WA2000 out of the armory, no-one had been particularly happy.

"The Agency confiscated it from a Camorra moneyman," Jean explained. "There are only 176 of them in the entire world, so each one is worth over fifty thousand euros. Do-not-lose-it."

So she didn't.

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Kurosaka "Ery" Erika on Tue 22 Jan 2013 - 20:59

LOL, that explains a lot
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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by John_234 on Tue 22 Jan 2013 - 21:10

Where I would use the WA2000 is probably more in Rico's conventional role - sniping people at urban distances in situations where you can clean up the brass, your weapon needs to be compact for transportation, and you're not in a high movement environment where losing the gun is likely.

So if you used the WA, I would consider what role it is and isn't suited to. I'd probably suggest some bolt-action rifle for the alps. Solid, not easily fouled by debris, accurate without fussing and far less expensive if you drop the rifle down the side of a mountain. Also much lighter due to being mechanically simpler. Since you're working at very long range, the improved accuracy of a bolt gun is good, plus rate of fire is less of an issue.

The SVU seems a bit awkward IMO, because the Dragunov has always been more of an accurized battle rifle. Its usable at close range if necessary due to its comfortable ergonomics and far more accurate than a conventional AK due to mechanical differences. I think the SVU loses the close range ergonomics with that difficult reload, plus the trigger suffers. The SVU is probably a great weapon if you're just carrying a sniper rifle as a secondary weapon for a specific situation you may or may not run into, though.

So, yeah. Different tool for every job.

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Alfisti on Wed 23 Jan 2013 - 6:48

I'm inclined to agree that the WA2000 was probably a stylistic choice... I can't remember: did 'Etta actually use it in the manga or was it just in the anime with Elsa?


Kuroneko wrote:i have my reason why Yuki was equip with L96AWP/AWS n_n

since AI Artic warfare sniper rifle is well know for it's ability in Ice warfare, allowing it to be used effectively at temperatures as low as รขห†โ€™40 ร‚ยฐC. AW sniper rifle also adaptable in any warfare (as i find it myself)
Not to mention the Arctic Warfare rifles are used by the GIS (from memory) and therefore would be easy to quietly slip under the radar for the SWA... along with parts etc.

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by John_234 on Wed 23 Jan 2013 - 7:04

It's also a lot easier to build or buy an inconspicuous bolt-action rifle if necessary.

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Officer_Charon on Thu 24 Jan 2013 - 17:59

Henrietta only used the WA2000 in the anime.

Also, re: using unusual weapons, I just had a moment of Fridge logic that should have been obvious, in hindsight: Using unusual (for a European governmental agency) weapons and calibers would serve as one more disconnect between the government and the SWA...

Using a Dragunov? Against a group with Albanian ties? Seems legit...

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Awinnell on Thu 24 Jan 2013 - 18:14

@Officer_Charon wrote:Henrietta only used the WA2000 in the anime.

Also, re: using unusual weapons, I just had a moment of Fridge logic that should have been obvious, in hindsight: Using unusual (for a European governmental agency) weapons and calibers would serve as one more disconnect between the government and the SWA...

Using a Dragunov? Against a group with Albanian ties? Seems legit...

whilst Henriettas P90 is unusual it is a major give away for military or government involvememnt ,the fully auto P 90 is only sold to such agencies ,the civilian PS90 is semi auto only,though i suppose a competent gunsmith could convert one

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Officer_Charon on Thu 24 Jan 2013 - 18:23

It's really not hard... and a black market runner could obtain military-grade weaponry... just look at Dante et al...

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Awinnell on Thu 24 Jan 2013 - 18:30

@Officer_Charon wrote:It's really not hard... and a black market runner could obtain military-grade weaponry... just look at Dante et al...

you could have got them of the Libyans, apparently Gadaffis guards used them !

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Alfisti on Thu 24 Jan 2013 - 18:34

@Officer_Charon wrote:Also, re: using unusual weapons, I just had a moment of Fridge logic that should have been obvious, in hindsight: Using unusual (for a European governmental agency) weapons and calibers would serve as one more disconnect between the government and the SWA...
I could see them running a bit both ways, if that makes sense. Yes, exotics can be aquired through the black market but that is, frankly, probably going to be a pain in the posterior for anything needed in bulk. So, for general issue weapons, things used day-to-day, I could see them using the 92FS or Arctic Warfare etc as the aquisitions of weapons, parts and ammo could be quietly hidden in amongst those of, say, the GIS or some other agency (notably the Col Moschin 9 Reggimento Paracadutisti use the P90). Then break out the exotics for situations were the government wants to be able to point to the evidence if need be and go "well we don't use things like that".

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 24 Jan 2013 - 19:24

@Officer_Charon wrote:Also, re: using unusual weapons, I just had a moment of Fridge logic that should have been obvious, in hindsight: Using unusual (for a European governmental agency) weapons and calibers would serve as one more disconnect between the government and the SWA...

One of the reasons I went with .40S&W for the HK P2000SKs for Michele and Kara was because it would hopefully confuse CSI: Rome into thinking the damn Americans were in town. Smile

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by John_234 on Thu 24 Jan 2013 - 19:48

IMO, you have a set of weaponry for direct action work, and a set of weapons for everyday self defense and wet work.

So, stuff like the WA2000, P90, or exotics like the 6.5 Grendel or 4.6 in the MP7 would work great in settings where you can get cleaners to get the bodies, clean up misses and spent casings, I think.

Conversely, I think your everyday weapons must be chosen with local availability as the primary concern.

Sure, 7.62x54r would be very very hard to construe as belonging to the government in a standard agency's arsenal, but wouldn't having a .308 Winchester rifle, where ammo can be bought at any gun shop be even harder to trace back?

Even if Italy seems comparatively stricter with gun laws than the US, they are pretty liberal with what a civilian can carry and purchase. 9mm is definitely not hard to get through illegal means, but I like to think that very common civilian cartridges are a good way to throw people off. It's generally not much trouble, either.

A Glock 17 with 17+1 of 9mm Parabellum that raises eyebrows due to its illegal magazine cap and illegal for civilian purchase ammunition? What about a Glock 25, 15+1 .380 ACP, entirely civilian legal and nearly the same level of firepower - or maybe a Glock 22 in .40 which is also very legal. It's really not that much trouble to find a gun that would completely disappear into the local landscape, I think.

Then again, in reality you wouldn't really have a trademark set of weapons in this line of work. If you had to shoot people on a regular basis, you'd probably get a new gun if you were involved in a shooting that police recorded. Ditch the old one, get another from the pile of guns, or maybe a confiscated gun.

People sticking to a particular model of handgun is usually because of agency mandate or to incorporate the weapon into characterization, I guess.

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Re: Scaling your Loadouts

Post by M240B on Sun 12 Apr 2015 - 7:49

I wanted Tara Stahl to have a battle rifle, I knew that going into this. I personally own a SCAR-S, and I love that weapon.

Personal bias aside, a battle rifle is a flexible platform with a heavy hitting round, and the SCAR was just a no brainer for me. It, to me, was like a modern version of the BAR (Don't bring up the HCAR, I know it exists, the BAR was heavy for a reason.....).

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