Cyborg Assualt Armor

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Il Direttore on Fri 10 May 2013 - 2:25

Not sure if this is the best place to be asking this, but I figure it works well enough and one of the Admins can move it if necessary.

So I've been thinking about the gear issued to the cyborgs and their handlers in the Powerplant Arc, and it always seems to me like it's unnecessarily light. It feels like the SPARTAN route would have been more effective: since they can carry more load with less reduction of capacity, cyborgs should armor up and be able to move through a battlefield rapidly and violently to make maximum use of their enhanced physiology.


Thoughts?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

- President John F. Kennedy
avatar
Il Direttore

Male

Forum Posts : 1003

Location : Chicago, Illinois, United States

Fan of : Henrietta, Triela

Original Characters : Lieutenant James Spettro/Caterina

Comments : In yon strait path a thousand may well be stopped by three. Now who will stand on either hand, and keep the bridge with me?’ -Horatius


Registration date : 2012-07-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Officer_Charon on Fri 10 May 2013 - 4:32

It's the same problem that soldiers face today.

Too much armor slows you down, and for you to carry enough to fully protect you from all threats, you would need a power system to motivate it.

The girls added the plate carriers with the SAPI inserts to add a layer of protection for their vitals, and that's all that they would really need. You can't add enough armor to guard against a .50 or 20mm AMR round on a person - even a cyborg. And too much armor takes away their strength and speed advantage. Better to give them the extra layer against normal ammunition in a single plate carrier, and allow them to still be combat effective.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Si vis pacem, para bellum

"The two loudest sounds you will ever hear from your weapon are the *bang* when it's supposed to go *click* and the *click* when it's supposed to go *bang*." -Unknown

"220 horses, I got a gun, a siren, a tank full of city gas. Don't you love it?!" - Ofc. Maurice "Bosco" Boscarelli, Third Watch
avatar
Officer_Charon

Male

Forum Posts : 1470

Location : Savannah, GA

Fan of : Triela, Claes

Original Characters : John Darme.

Registration date : 2010-09-16
Your character
OC genger: 40

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Il Direttore on Fri 10 May 2013 - 10:18

Officer_Charon wrote:It's the same problem that soldiers face today.

Too much armor slows you down, and for you to carry enough to fully protect you from all threats, you would need a power system to motivate it.

The girls added the plate carriers with the SAPI inserts to add a layer of protection for their vitals, and that's all that they would really need. You can't add enough armor to guard against a .50 or 20mm AMR round on a person - even a cyborg. And too much armor takes away their strength and speed advantage. Better to give them the extra layer against normal ammunition in a single plate carrier, and allow them to still be combat effective.

Well as you say, the main issue is weight. Since the cyborgs can carry larger loads, why would the extra weight be an issue?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

- President John F. Kennedy
avatar
Il Direttore

Male

Forum Posts : 1003

Location : Chicago, Illinois, United States

Fan of : Henrietta, Triela

Original Characters : Lieutenant James Spettro/Caterina

Comments : In yon strait path a thousand may well be stopped by three. Now who will stand on either hand, and keep the bridge with me?’ -Horatius


Registration date : 2012-07-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Alfisti on Fri 10 May 2013 - 11:11

El Conservatore wrote:Well as you say, the main issue is weight. Since the cyborgs can carry larger loads, why would the extra weight be an issue?
Well there's weight... and then there's mobility: actual physical restriction of movement by the armour. Weight aside; this sort of thing takes of space one way or another: and the more there is the more likely it is to get in the way, particularly on a child's form. Either way: a cyborg can carry more, but each extra kilo of weight she has to motivate is still going to slow her down; to the point where she looses her mobility advantage.

Personally though, I'd argue cost more than anything. The SWA's budget's big, but it's not unlimited, and they're already ploughing billions of euros into the cyborg programme itself. Spending more to come up with a bespoke armouring system to fit a small cyborg is money which could be used elsewhere on projects more likely to reach commercialisation/are not already being developed by someone else... who is probably further ahead. As it is the girls are already moderately resistant to small arms fire; the SWA probably figured that it wouldn't be feasible to fit them with enough armour to stop anything larger than that... not to mention that sort of thing takes time and the Agency is only just starting to encounter an enemy armed to deal with the cyborgs.

Either way, back to the money point... as Charon noted: you're not going to be able to fit them with enough plate to stop a .50 or 20mm round. Its far cheaper and more effective to give them a cut-down-for-their-stature version of regular body armour to stop small arms fire, so you can change the plates rather than repair the cyborg... and they still maintain the vast majority of their mobility advantage and agility: which means there's less chance of them getting hit in the first place. If they get hit by anything larger, well: you were going to have a repair job on your hands anyway.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Your lack of planning does not constitute my emergency.
avatar
Alfisti

Male

Forum Posts : 5754

Location : A Town by the Sea, NSW Central Coast, Australia

Fan of : Triela, Hilshire, Priscilla, Ferro

Original Characters : Jethro + Monty

Comments : If in doubt, overdress.

Registration date : 2009-07-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Il Direttore on Fri 10 May 2013 - 11:12

Alfisti wrote:
El Conservatore wrote:Well as you say, the main issue is weight. Since the cyborgs can carry larger loads, why would the extra weight be an issue?
Well there's weight... and then there's mobility: actual physical restriction of movement by the armour. Weight aside; this sort of thing takes of space one way or another: and the more there is the more likely it is to get in the way, particularly on a child's form. Either way: a cyborg can carry more, but each extra kilo of weight she has to motivate is still going to slow her down; to the point where she looses her mobility advantage.

Personally though, I'd argue cost more than anything. The SWA's budget's big, but it's not unlimited, and they're already ploughing billions of euros into the cyborg programme itself. Spending more to come up with a bespoke armouring system to fit a small cyborg is money which could be used elsewhere on projects more likely to reach commercialisation/are not already being developed by someone else... who is probably further ahead. As it is the girls are already moderately resistant to small arms fire; the SWA probably figured that it wouldn't be feasible to fit them with enough armour to stop anything larger than that... not to mention that sort of thing takes time and the Agency is only just starting to encounter an enemy armed to deal with the cyborgs.

Either way, back to the money point... as Charon noted: you're not going to be able to fit them with enough plate to stop a .50 or 20mm round. Its far cheaper and more effective to give them a cut-down-for-their-stature version of regular body armour to stop small arms fire, so you can change the plates rather than repair the cyborg... and they still maintain the vast majority of their mobility advantage and agility: which means there's less chance of them getting hit in the first place. If they get hit by anything larger, well: you were going to have a repair job on your hands anyway.

Ah, kay, that makes sense. I suppose I failed to consider the monetary aspect. -_-'

Although now I kinda want to design an armored suit thing just for the sake of doing it....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

- President John F. Kennedy
avatar
Il Direttore

Male

Forum Posts : 1003

Location : Chicago, Illinois, United States

Fan of : Henrietta, Triela

Original Characters : Lieutenant James Spettro/Caterina

Comments : In yon strait path a thousand may well be stopped by three. Now who will stand on either hand, and keep the bridge with me?’ -Horatius


Registration date : 2012-07-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 11 May 2013 - 11:19

The cyborgs were only designed to fight off goons and Mafioso types that Padania would throw at them on an everyday basis. They did not expect a full terrorist military battalion waiting for them at the nuke plant.

Like the others say, the there is a weight issue/protection ratio to contend with, and it is the problem soldiers face today.

For my characters I only give them light armour layered in sections (bullet-resistant t-shirt, then shirt and then trench coat when it can be used), which gives them a bit more protection than if they wore a single layer on top of the internal protection that they may have (My OC Francesca does not have that internal layer since she was a prototype unit not originally meant to be put on the field!). Such things are located at my OC Wiki or for light stuff you can look at the Miguel Cabarello website: http://miguelcaballero.com/en .

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If Fernando had Super Powers, He would be God!
avatar
ElfenMagix

Male

Forum Posts : 5682

Location : NYC NY, USA

Fan of : Pia, Elsa, Cleas, Triela...

Original Characters : Fernando & Rachel, Felix & Francesca

Comments : He has super powers. He is God.

Registration date : 2007-09-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by tremec6speed on Sun 12 May 2013 - 2:56

As for my two fratello, Helen cyborg can be seen on the field sporting experimental gear because her evil handler Salvatore couldn't care a wit about her safety and therefore sends her to the R&D dept. on a regular basis to try new equipment. If his cyborg Helen succeeds using the new defense attire, good. If not, his attitude can be summed up as follows:
Second fratello Ayden is not thought by the staff to need more than light armor as she was considered a next level weapon cydroid/synthoid, expected to take on tougher opponents with a more stout design and fast healing body. She is purposely sent out on high firepower missions to test her ability to deal with theses kinds of situations.
avatar
tremec6speed

Male

Forum Posts : 1968

Fan of : Lauro and Olga!

Original Characters : Vinson/Helen/Salvatore + Gunther/Ayden. Baddies are a small group of 'techno-anarchists'

Comments : I hope to include a short illustrated fanfic story of both Mr. Yutaka Aida's characters as well as some I've come up with.

Registration date : 2009-08-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Kurosaka "Ery" Erika on Sun 12 May 2013 - 10:55

thinking that the girls can withstand any mid-sized caliber(high caliber is an exception), i don't see any reason for my cyborg to be equipped with internal 'armor', since they could wear level 3 and level 4 bulletproof vest XD

using a high caliber like Giacomo done to Beatrice, or the enemy soldier firing his barrett M82 .50cal to Triela's arm and leg;decapitating her left limb and arm is simply cruel, even the concrete blocks can't withstand the impact. Razz
avatar
Kurosaka "Ery" Erika

Male

Forum Posts : 1169

Location : Venezia-Italy

Fan of : no one

Original Characters : sooo many

Comments : "Should i shoot you, or stab you?"

Registration date : 2012-04-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by taerKitty on Sun 12 May 2013 - 13:18

"If your cyborg is facing an AMR, you're DOING IT WRONG!!!"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Alfisti: "Welcome to the SWA... don't worry, your cyborg is probably less confused than you are".
avatar
taerKitty

Male

Forum Posts : 1172

Location : Pacific Northwest

Fan of : Claes

Original Characters : Dina & Paolo

Comments : The feelz... the feelz...

Registration date : 2012-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Kurosaka "Ery" Erika on Mon 13 May 2013 - 0:48

taerkitty wrote:"If your cyborg is facing an AMR, you're DOING IT WRONG!!!"

"anywhere except their eyes, they can survive"

Razz
avatar
Kurosaka "Ery" Erika

Male

Forum Posts : 1169

Location : Venezia-Italy

Fan of : no one

Original Characters : sooo many

Comments : "Should i shoot you, or stab you?"

Registration date : 2012-04-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by PolosElite23 on Wed 28 May 2014 - 11:26

I feel the best, armor-wise for cyborgs. A bulletproof vest, knee and elbow pads, and a helemet would be about all that would be needed. Though the helemet isn't really nessesary I suppose, but one I'd say would be fine to add.

Though, I have to say. The girls do have internal armor, so unless you know they're going up against someone really heavily armed, more cost effective to just let them go as is.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
----
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.

-Stanzas 2+4 of Invictus by William Earnest Henley
avatar
PolosElite23

Male

Forum Posts : 914

Location : Ohio, USA

Fan of : Triela, Hillshire, and Angelica

Original Characters : Various

Comments : A journey of a lifetime starts with a blinking cursor.

Registration date : 2013-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by taerKitty on Wed 28 May 2014 - 11:40

Depends on the writer, I say.  One could say that the fact Angie wasn't turned to hamburger from the truck bomb meant she was armoured.  

Personally, I go with carbon fibre lacing, so the bones are more break-resistant, and some organ replacements, but I don't want them bulletproof more than the head, and I'm going to say that a battle rifle round (i.e. 7.62 NATO) will still do enough spalling that a square headshot will have a high percentage of checking a cybog out permanently.

Note that a 7.62 Warsaw Pact (i.e. AKM) was enough to break Etta's skin, and crash-test-dummy Claes' skin didn't seem to impede joint separation.

Finally, I will go with Triela's terminal precedent and say that blood loss can also be fatal.

I don't want the girls to be mini-Terminators.  I want them to be more bullet-resistant than mere mortals, but not invulnerable.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Alfisti: "Welcome to the SWA... don't worry, your cyborg is probably less confused than you are".
avatar
taerKitty

Male

Forum Posts : 1172

Location : Pacific Northwest

Fan of : Claes

Original Characters : Dina & Paolo

Comments : The feelz... the feelz...

Registration date : 2012-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 28 May 2014 - 12:27

In the manga, while protecting Roberta, Triela took a 7.62x51mmR round in the gut. It did penetrate (she's bleeding rather significantly) and the impact knocked her on her ass and she definitely felt it based on the grimace on her face. However, it didn't seem to be a critical wound like it would on a human.

In the anime, she uses her arms to deflect 9mm pistol fire. There are little spurts of blood, but it appears the bullets do not penetrate much (they effectively bounce off).

I personally view the girl's armor as a mix of CFRP musculature providing the primary defense (effectively serving like kevlar body armor) with the skeleton providing additional protection (allowing the girls to use their arms to deflect 9mm rounds, for example). I also expect that there are CFRP plates underneath their ribs to provide maximum protection for their heart and lungs.

As for the skull, it appears to be armored (Rico takes a near head-shot from Frano's 9mm and a glancing shot from a rifle in Venice).

In general, I'd say the girls are armored against high-velocity assault / battle rifles. We know anti-material rounds (.50BMG and above) will shred them, so I expect .338 LM or above will penetrate.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What? I like donuts! - Betty Suarez
If I die before my time, go on Oprah and tell the world 'I liked kittens'. - Veronica Mars
Scissors of victory! - Yui Hirasawa
avatar
Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Male

Forum Posts : 10896

Location : Seattle / Tokyo / Milan

Fan of : Angelica's Smile

Original Characters : Kara Michelle

Comments : The community's international man of mystery.

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by taerKitty on Wed 28 May 2014 - 12:53

True, forgot about Triela's arm-shielding.  

I believe in the Elsa arc, they specifically stated that the heads were armoured, and an eye-shot was the only sure-fire way to one-shot/one-kill them.

From what I read from analysis of the change in trends in US gangland shootings, gut-shots are not likely to be fatal.  The article stated that street gangs tend to empty magazines into opponents' abdomens to increase chances of lower-body paralysis and quality-of-life issues to demoralize and 'punish', rather than upper-torso / head shots, which are more likely to kill.

Depending on the jacketing, 7.62mm x 51 NATO (the 7.62mmR is x 54mm from the SKS/Dragonuv) is very likely to go thru-and-thru soft tissue such as the gut, which actually lowers tranferred KE (the bullet still retains KE as it goes downrange, albeit with bits of gut trailing behind.)  

However, this assumes no armour. Armour increases chance of bullet deformation, which increases KE transfer.   From a matter of raw KE, 7.62mm x 51 NATO or x 54 rimmed should be enough to remove large chunks of soft tissue assuming total KE transfer.

From this, I would offer that the fact a battle rifle round didn't blow out 25% of her rear abdomen to mean that she's not armoured down there.

As for the forearm-shielding move, that could be a hold-over from pre-cyborg reflex (though, if conditioning did away with her innate tendency to get the eff outta Dodge, it can be argued that it also did away with the reflex to guard her face.)  However, it could be argued that she is merely shielding her eyes, which would have been immediately fatal should a round got through.  For that purpose, the increased resiliency of artificial muscle might have been sufficient.

I will accept that their muscles are tougher than usual.  We know they have increased strength, and if their muscles don't shear from usage at that performance level, then I can easily see the muscle fibers as being stronger (and therefore tougher) than mortal meat.

I stand by most of my original assessment:

- They're not hard-armoured, as per the discussion with the battle rifle v. Triela.  

- They have mildly increased bullet resistance, as per Triela's forearm v. 9mm Para (one of the mooks was firing a Beretta 93R) .  

- Their artificial skin is not cut-proof, either.  It may be mildly knife resistant, but Pino definitely left his mark.

- They have CF latticed bones - if the SWA is going to do the skull, which is likely the most difficult part, then why not do the ribs, spine, hips, and limbs?

Again, in large part, this is because I want the girls to be somewhat vulnerable, but within the boundaries of the canon.  I feel a character running into gunfire is far more compelling if she has a great deal to risk that if she is doing so with overwhelming technical superiority.

Your mileage and fics may vary (Ymafmv)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Alfisti: "Welcome to the SWA... don't worry, your cyborg is probably less confused than you are".
avatar
taerKitty

Male

Forum Posts : 1172

Location : Pacific Northwest

Fan of : Claes

Original Characters : Dina & Paolo

Comments : The feelz... the feelz...

Registration date : 2012-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Il Direttore on Wed 28 May 2014 - 18:46

[WARNING: SCIENCE CONTENT]
Spoiler:
It ought to be noted that CFRP (carbon fiber reinforced plastic) manufacturing techniques are currently being spearheaded by the Aerospace and Performance Vehicles Industries, but that they also are not magical materials that defy all science and physics. Notable weaknesses of CFRP are: 

1) Complete dependence on maintenance of fiber-resin adhesion
2) Anisotropic structure, making it highly dependent on orientation for strength
3) Weakness to compressive loads

The difference between a compressive and a tensile load is as follows: 

A compressive load exists because of a push onto a material. A load is "compressive" if the majority of the force vector (I call it >50%, but ymmv) points towards the center of the member taking the load. 

A tensile load exists because of a pull onto a material. A load is "tensile" if the majority of the force vector points away from the center of the member taking the load. 

In the case of bones and armor, the majority of things you are defending against are *compressive* loads. They come from an impact or a shock. This is the exact opposite of what carbon fiber is good a withstanding. It is my strong opinion that CFRP was chosen by Yu Aida simply as a nice "magic material" type noun. Given that the media hype at the time of publication seemed to make CFRP magical in nature, it seems like a natural choice to make. 
[End Science Content]

I would be more inclined to think that cyborg bones are polymer-sheathed aluminium. Aluminium 6061 or Aluminium 7075. This gives them ludicrous strength capacities anyway.

Artificial muscle is effectively unobtanium at this point, but it seems to me that if you're going to be lifting small cars, then you're going to need to be able to have tensile strengths in the 8000 lbs/inch^2 range. minimum. This is so that you can prevent tearing and destruction of the muscle fibers. 

Now sheath those muscles in some ballistic kevlar, then layer skin on top. Seems legit to me.

A greatly more important issue is how do you cushion the head from impact? Bones of supremely high strength are all well and good, but what kills you is not the bullet, but the energy transfer. I could make a cyborg skull of 1.3 inch thick rolled homogenous armor and she'd still die, because the impact from the bullet transfers its energy fully into the skull, which then transfers directly into the brain. Since this energy is in the form of basically a massive soundwave, the oscillations would liquify the brain matter.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

- President John F. Kennedy
avatar
Il Direttore

Male

Forum Posts : 1003

Location : Chicago, Illinois, United States

Fan of : Henrietta, Triela

Original Characters : Lieutenant James Spettro/Caterina

Comments : In yon strait path a thousand may well be stopped by three. Now who will stand on either hand, and keep the bridge with me?’ -Horatius


Registration date : 2012-07-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by taerKitty on Wed 28 May 2014 - 18:56

If you *replace* the skull, then that's the vibrations ('Boxer's Parkinsons' is a more mortal result of that).  If you only line the skull, then even if you don't have penetration, the KE xfer will cause bits of the interior to break off and travel.

HESH (High Explosive Squash Head) does this:  The explosive mushrooms onto the tank armor much like a bullet does under ideal conditions.  The charge is detonated when the back of the payload contacts the armour.  The resulting explosion does NOT penetrate the armour, but causes both unsecured items and pieces of armor on the other side to break free and travel away from the explosion.  That's spalling, and if a skull is only lined with something bullet-resistant, you'll still have a case of Swiss-cheese-brains.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Alfisti: "Welcome to the SWA... don't worry, your cyborg is probably less confused than you are".
avatar
taerKitty

Male

Forum Posts : 1172

Location : Pacific Northwest

Fan of : Claes

Original Characters : Dina & Paolo

Comments : The feelz... the feelz...

Registration date : 2012-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Il Direttore on Wed 28 May 2014 - 18:57

Well, the spalling occurs regardless of the type of warhead. It's a function of impact and energy causing fracture within the material. ANY skull will do this, regardless of material.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

- President John F. Kennedy
avatar
Il Direttore

Male

Forum Posts : 1003

Location : Chicago, Illinois, United States

Fan of : Henrietta, Triela

Original Characters : Lieutenant James Spettro/Caterina

Comments : In yon strait path a thousand may well be stopped by three. Now who will stand on either hand, and keep the bridge with me?’ -Horatius


Registration date : 2012-07-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by taerKitty on Wed 28 May 2014 - 19:06

Yes and no.  Sufficient energy on one side will cause KE xfer onto the other side.  Medieval warhammers do that.  A warhammer is very similar to ye olde 16 oz framing hammer, but with a very long handle.  The other end can be a pick (and termed a war pick).  A warhammer against heavy plate often breaks bone, even though the plate isn't penetrated.  (The war pick's purpose *is* to bust through heavy plate, so it's another story.)

However, the plate armor is whole.  Chunks didn't break off.  That's not spalling.

Spalling is a very specific condition. At high levels of KE, you're more likely to experience penetration than spalling.  At low levels of KE, you're going to just ring the target like a bell.

Spalling is when the armour is NOT penetrated, but parts of the inside break off with sufficient force to do damage.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Alfisti: "Welcome to the SWA... don't worry, your cyborg is probably less confused than you are".
avatar
taerKitty

Male

Forum Posts : 1172

Location : Pacific Northwest

Fan of : Claes

Original Characters : Dina & Paolo

Comments : The feelz... the feelz...

Registration date : 2012-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Il Direttore on Wed 28 May 2014 - 19:08

I mean, what we're both getting at in the end is:  

Object hits cyborg head very hard. Cyborg dies.


The question is how to prevent this from happening. I think kevlar interior lining is used in tanks and IFVs to prevent spalling issues, but we still need to solve the issue of impacts causing pulpification. I'm not coming up with anything particularly clever, myself....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

- President John F. Kennedy
avatar
Il Direttore

Male

Forum Posts : 1003

Location : Chicago, Illinois, United States

Fan of : Henrietta, Triela

Original Characters : Lieutenant James Spettro/Caterina

Comments : In yon strait path a thousand may well be stopped by three. Now who will stand on either hand, and keep the bridge with me?’ -Horatius


Registration date : 2012-07-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by taerKitty on Wed 28 May 2014 - 19:20

The difference is in the details, specifically the value of 'very.'

We know a cyborg head (not including eye) will shrug off most pistol rounds.  I'll be generous and include show-off rounds like the .454 Casull.  The resulting KE xfer may cause disorientation or even blacking out, but no fatality.

We know a cyborg arm will be sheared off by an AMR.  I think most fans would accept that a headshot with an AMR will kill the cyborg as well.

Between them are two (or three, depending on how you see PDW rounds) categories:

Assault rifle and battle rifle rounds, both firing ball ammo.  I don't think the canon talks about what happens in headshot scenarios with those.  

In my writing, I'll say that a battle rifle round will have a good chance (66% or more) of killing a cyborg with a square hit, and an assault rifle round will have a low chance (25% or less) 

Note I say 'ball ammo.'  PDW rounds (as opposed to PDW guns that are chambered for standard ammo, such as various bullpup 5.56mm SBRs) are designed to have shorter ranges than even assault rifle, though greater than pistol.  However, they're specifically designed to be able to penetrate pistol-level bulletproof vests.  In that case, with a square hit to the noggin, I'd say there's closer to a 50% chance of a fatality.

Again, this is for my fiction.  I've read others that simply give the girls skin that is proof against pistol ammo.

For dramatic purposes, I am looking at the lowest possible armouring I can and still be justified in arguing that I am staying within canon.  If you want walking tanks, please go ahead.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Alfisti: "Welcome to the SWA... don't worry, your cyborg is probably less confused than you are".
avatar
taerKitty

Male

Forum Posts : 1172

Location : Pacific Northwest

Fan of : Claes

Original Characters : Dina & Paolo

Comments : The feelz... the feelz...

Registration date : 2012-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Il Direttore on Wed 28 May 2014 - 19:25

Well, I suppose the difference here is that I'm treating this as an engineering problem, so there is that issue. Personally, tend to the opposite direction: cyborgs are extraordinarily vulnerable, for all their vaunted abilities. Perhaps they can shrug off a few center-of-mass hits, but they're ultimately not that more resistive to attack than the average human. 

The key advantage a cyborg possesses, from what I can see, is the ability to provide maximum force at maximum speed at maximally opportune moments.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

- President John F. Kennedy
avatar
Il Direttore

Male

Forum Posts : 1003

Location : Chicago, Illinois, United States

Fan of : Henrietta, Triela

Original Characters : Lieutenant James Spettro/Caterina

Comments : In yon strait path a thousand may well be stopped by three. Now who will stand on either hand, and keep the bridge with me?’ -Horatius


Registration date : 2012-07-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by taerKitty on Wed 28 May 2014 - 19:27

For me the key advantage is that they're cute and innocent and entirely dismissable.  Until they open their Amantis, that is.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Alfisti: "Welcome to the SWA... don't worry, your cyborg is probably less confused than you are".
avatar
taerKitty

Male

Forum Posts : 1172

Location : Pacific Northwest

Fan of : Claes

Original Characters : Dina & Paolo

Comments : The feelz... the feelz...

Registration date : 2012-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Il Direttore on Wed 28 May 2014 - 19:31

See, for me, the question at that point is why augment them to the extent described? Why not give them cybernetics to make them seem completely whole, add just enough power so that they can gtfo if needed, and then employ maximum cute?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

- President John F. Kennedy
avatar
Il Direttore

Male

Forum Posts : 1003

Location : Chicago, Illinois, United States

Fan of : Henrietta, Triela

Original Characters : Lieutenant James Spettro/Caterina

Comments : In yon strait path a thousand may well be stopped by three. Now who will stand on either hand, and keep the bridge with me?’ -Horatius


Registration date : 2012-07-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by PolosElite23 on Wed 28 May 2014 - 20:46

Il Direttore wrote:Well, I suppose the difference here is that I'm treating this as an engineering problem, so there is that issue. Personally, tend to the opposite direction: cyborgs are extraordinarily vulnerable, for all their vaunted abilities. Perhaps they can shrug off a few center-of-mass hits, but they're ultimately not that more resistive to attack than the average human. 

The key advantage a cyborg possesses, from what I can see, is the ability to provide maximum force at maximum speed at maximally opportune moments.
I personally reach the same conclusion. Simplest way to avoid fatal KE transfer into noggin is to put something between whatever is going to hit said noggin and the noggin itself. In comes Helmet.

The point I have to agree with ID here, is that KE is the real killer here. The impact does the most damage and worse injury. I think this also slightly goes back to convo in Field Repairs on Cyborgs with what does damage and how, ect. ect.

At the same time, we're dealing with unites involved in counter-terrorism. So bulky helmets aren't a obvious choice most of the time. Many SWAT and Spec Ops groups go helmetless at times to get better situation awareness....

So, back at square one?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
----
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.

-Stanzas 2+4 of Invictus by William Earnest Henley
avatar
PolosElite23

Male

Forum Posts : 914

Location : Ohio, USA

Fan of : Triela, Hillshire, and Angelica

Original Characters : Various

Comments : A journey of a lifetime starts with a blinking cursor.

Registration date : 2013-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by taerKitty on Wed 28 May 2014 - 21:34

As I've alluded to previously in this thread, it's a matter of what stories you want to tell.  Here it is explicitly.  This is square one.

If you want Mary-Sue god.mode fantasies about little girls wading through battle rifle bullet blizzards, armour them up to the gills.  Make them invincible.  Make victory all but inevitable.  The appeal will be their combat quips, the maximum carnage, and the wish-fulfilment inherent in that sort of fic.

If you want soap operas, make their augmentations barely more than human.  Make them almost worthless from a tactical standpoint, aside from their initial surprise factor.  Lose all the shonen readers who look scratch their mil.hardware fetish, and instead make it all talk-talk-talk.

Those are the two reductum ad absurdum extremes I can envision. I hope no one thinks I'm saying these two buckets are the only choices.  In fact, I doubt anyone will actually be in these categories exactly as-is. We're all going to be somewhere in-between, but I doubt we'll all be clustered around the same spot.  There'll likely be two or three 'sweet spots' where we cluster 

- One will be closer to the Terminator model, where they have weaknesses, but those aren't the plot mechanics' focii.  Their strengths will be significant, but not to the point where they can bullet-sponge their way through.

- One will be closer to the waifu, where their weaknesses are key to the stories, not their strengths.  Their strengths will certainly play a part in the drama, but usually as the entry point, not the resolution to the conflict.

- One might result from people trying to find 'balance' between the above.  Personally, I feel that a person focusing on a story mechanic, an aspect of storytelling that only an(other) author is likely to see, will not tell as strong a story as one that focuses on a particular type of reader as a target audience.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Alfisti: "Welcome to the SWA... don't worry, your cyborg is probably less confused than you are".
avatar
taerKitty

Male

Forum Posts : 1172

Location : Pacific Northwest

Fan of : Claes

Original Characters : Dina & Paolo

Comments : The feelz... the feelz...

Registration date : 2012-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Alfisti on Thu 29 May 2014 - 6:32

Within the realm of my own stories, I've usually taken the cyborgs as being moderately bullet resistant (which is a long way from bullet-proof) against the more common pistol and smaller rifle calibres. Every hit they take is going to do them damage, even from less powerful weapons and cartridges, though how much, frankly, really tends to be dictated by what I need for the story. Suffice to say enough shots, or a well placed shot can probably put them in serious trouble, or what they're hit with will get scaled up to suit.

That said, seeing as I think cyborgs have been shot something like a grand total of three times in my stories (which, by rough calc, probably makes an average of one hit per 100k words), it's not something that has particularly weighed on my mind. sweat

As Taer said: it really depends on what one wishes to write.


taerkitty wrote:Personally, I feel that a person focusing on a story mechanic, an aspect of storytelling that only an(other) author is likely to see, will not tell as strong a story as one that focuses on a particular type of reader as a target audience.
Tell a stronger story perhaps but, to be fair, there is a sizeable audience out there who like a good mechanic as well. Look at the Honorverse: that series lives and dies by its story mechanic and, one's views on David Weber as an author overall aside, it has a huge following. Hell, half the reason I enjoy reading it is because it's an easy series to nerd over.

That said, I don't think the universe's mechanic was really weighing heavily on Yu Aida's mind when creating GsG. It's a means to an end, not the end in and of itself.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Your lack of planning does not constitute my emergency.
avatar
Alfisti

Male

Forum Posts : 5754

Location : A Town by the Sea, NSW Central Coast, Australia

Fan of : Triela, Hilshire, Priscilla, Ferro

Original Characters : Jethro + Monty

Comments : If in doubt, overdress.

Registration date : 2009-07-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by taerKitty on Thu 29 May 2014 - 9:22

I don't know much about Weber, but I found "Basilisk Station" a hard slog to finish.  I'm at attempt #3, and still haven't made it to the half-way point.  

Honor is The Chosen One, as is made p(l)ainfully evident by the fact that she has a treecat and the Admiralty herself has made special provisions for those 0.0001% who have such a bond.  

There's very little characterization, no character growth, no introspection or self-doubt.  

The problems so far have been set-'em-up, knock-'em-down.  

- Set up to fail?  Well, come up with a way to win!

- Outta monitoring satellites?  McGyver your own!

- (Sorry, CBA to remember more.)

I think I'm primarily reading it to have something in common with my friends, but the books themselves aren't that compelling for me.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Alfisti: "Welcome to the SWA... don't worry, your cyborg is probably less confused than you are".
avatar
taerKitty

Male

Forum Posts : 1172

Location : Pacific Northwest

Fan of : Claes

Original Characters : Dina & Paolo

Comments : The feelz... the feelz...

Registration date : 2012-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by PolosElite23 on Thu 29 May 2014 - 10:40

*nod* I agree. I guess it really comes all down to author perception/what the author wants to potray. A more vaulnerable look on the cyborgs, may press need for body armor and such, but one with a more robust one wouldn't require it. Plus, story dynamics, characters, setting, ect. ect.

Cannon-wise, do we even see them in body armor or stuffs? I don't recall if they do or not...and I'm at school so I can't exactly check at the moment. I know we've seen them more tactically outfitted, but do they actually wear body armor in cannon?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
----
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.

-Stanzas 2+4 of Invictus by William Earnest Henley
avatar
PolosElite23

Male

Forum Posts : 914

Location : Ohio, USA

Fan of : Triela, Hillshire, and Angelica

Original Characters : Various

Comments : A journey of a lifetime starts with a blinking cursor.

Registration date : 2013-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by taerKitty on Thu 29 May 2014 - 10:42

I think they did during the New Trino assault.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Alfisti: "Welcome to the SWA... don't worry, your cyborg is probably less confused than you are".
avatar
taerKitty

Male

Forum Posts : 1172

Location : Pacific Northwest

Fan of : Claes

Original Characters : Dina & Paolo

Comments : The feelz... the feelz...

Registration date : 2012-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by PolosElite23 on Thu 29 May 2014 - 10:49

taerkitty wrote:I think they did during the New Trino assault.
I thought so, wasn't sure. So does that make cyborg body armor cannonal...well yeah I guess it does....hmmm....

So, now that we possibly have bodyarmor as a cannonal attribute...any of our military minded forum compainions have any idea what kind of body armor they used? Or a rough idea what would work/


Pez has gone into research mode

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
----
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.

-Stanzas 2+4 of Invictus by William Earnest Henley
avatar
PolosElite23

Male

Forum Posts : 914

Location : Ohio, USA

Fan of : Triela, Hillshire, and Angelica

Original Characters : Various

Comments : A journey of a lifetime starts with a blinking cursor.

Registration date : 2013-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 29 May 2014 - 12:16

They wore body armor at New Trino because they realized at Venice they were now engaged against an enemy who knew the girls were modified humans and had significantly improved their weapons to account for that.
 
Yu never really spent much time focusing on the "science" of GSG. I do because it's how I operate, but I still tried to just give a "10,000 meter" view in my works, even if I spent more time working out the mechanics in my background. From Pactio:

Over the next half-hour, Bianchi showed Michele a cybernetic augmentation program that constituted a level of biomechatronics that he had not thought possible. Artificial implants and advanced neurocognitive and neuromotor prostheses made from carbon fiber reinforced plastic (CFRP) and titanium with synthetic muscular systems were tied together with advanced biosensors and cosmesis. Micro-actuators allowed heightened strength and neuroprosthetics enhanced reflexes, improved visual and auditory acuity and reduced the transmission of pain impulses. It sounded more like science fiction than science fact...

It doesn't explain how the girls are made, just what they are made of. The next paragraph then sets up the general capabilities:

“The cyborgs really are incredible,” Bianchi stated, the pride evident in his tone. “If they let them into the Olympics, they’d sweep Gold in every Track and Field and weightlifting event, resetting the World Record as they did so. Drill them properly and they’ll own the shooting events, as well.”

It sets the tone, without delving into the minutia, allowing me the ability to reveal specific capabilities later on in the story without having to explain them at the time.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What? I like donuts! - Betty Suarez
If I die before my time, go on Oprah and tell the world 'I liked kittens'. - Veronica Mars
Scissors of victory! - Yui Hirasawa
avatar
Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Male

Forum Posts : 10896

Location : Seattle / Tokyo / Milan

Fan of : Angelica's Smile

Original Characters : Kara Michelle

Comments : The community's international man of mystery.

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by PolosElite23 on Thu 29 May 2014 - 12:56

Kiskaloo wrote:They wore body armor at New Trino because they realized at Venice they were now engaged against an enemy who knew the girls were modified humans and had significantly improved their weapons to account for that.
 
True enough. Was that the only occurance...I'll have to check my manga when I get home from school...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
----
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.

-Stanzas 2+4 of Invictus by William Earnest Henley
avatar
PolosElite23

Male

Forum Posts : 914

Location : Ohio, USA

Fan of : Triela, Hillshire, and Angelica

Original Characters : Various

Comments : A journey of a lifetime starts with a blinking cursor.

Registration date : 2013-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by taerKitty on Thu 29 May 2014 - 17:45

Sorry, I was going on the statement that the girls axiomatically have internal armour.

PolosElite23 wrote:Though, I have to say. The girls do have internal armor, so unless you know they're going up against someone really heavily armed, more cost effective to just let them go as is.

I don't think it serves the story for them to have internal armour, nor does the canon back that up.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Alfisti: "Welcome to the SWA... don't worry, your cyborg is probably less confused than you are".
avatar
taerKitty

Male

Forum Posts : 1172

Location : Pacific Northwest

Fan of : Claes

Original Characters : Dina & Paolo

Comments : The feelz... the feelz...

Registration date : 2012-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by PSVT on Fri 30 May 2014 - 1:29

The way I understand it all, though I might want to make a more detailed pass through my copy of the manga to make sure, is that it's not really so much that they're armored, and any armor they possess would be necessarily effective only against small-arms fire such as pistols and the like. No, I think it's more likely their conditioning that allows them to shrug off the sensation and pain from being hit and concentrate on doing their mission more than physical armor protection. At best, any armor effect may be a side effect of the components used for the construction of the girls' muscle and bone and not so much a deliberate decision. As such they use their superior speed, strength, and dexterity with a gun as advantages in combat instead of pretending to be walking tanks, for that latter assumption would lead to a lot of injured or dead cyborgs. Furthermore, there are examples of the girls being rather porous to gunfire, such as in Chapter 1 when Henrietta was shot in the arm defending (without his order/desire, mind) Jose. The Padanian baddies used nothing heavier than assault rifles (though I can't tell if it's an AK-47 (7.62 mm) or AK-74 or the like (5.56 mm) used there, which might make a small difference). Another example, as was stated earlier, is when Triela guarded Roberta Guellfi in Chapter 37 and was shot in the stomach. No need for me to rehash the whole discussion here.

In terms of the world I'm building for my own maybe-but-not-quite-sure-yet story, I'm thinking in very similar terms, maybe increasing the armor effect provided by the artificial skin and muscles but not to the extent that the cyborgs would be bulletproof or even very bullet resistant. And, for my OC-in-development, it's even worse for her, but she has a slightly different role in the whole mess.
avatar
PSVT

Male

Forum Posts : 511

Location : Pennsylvania, United States

Fan of : Triela, Claes

Original Characters : Giancarlo Rossi and his cyborgs Valentina R. and Eleonora R.; James Bernard and his cyborg Rachelle

Comments : Working on an actual story now, so please be patient... ^_^;

Registration date : 2014-05-27
Your character
OC genger: 40

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Alfisti on Fri 30 May 2014 - 4:42

@Taer... I fear you may have missed the point of my comment.  sweat  That being that, whatever you, me or anyone else may think of David Weber's writing, he is writing for a specific type of target reader and while you or I may find his storytelling lacking in many ways, for his particular target reader those don't matter. For that target it is strong storytelling in the bounds of what they know and appreciate.

Anyway, save that one for the "on writing" thread. On with the show.


PSVT wrote:The way I understand it all, though I might want to make a more detailed pass through my copy of the manga to make sure, is that it's not really so much that they're armored, and any armor they possess would be necessarily effective only against small-arms fire such as pistols and the like. No, I think it's more likely their conditioning that allows them to shrug off the sensation and pain from being hit and concentrate on doing their mission more than physical armor protection. At best, any armor effect may be a side effect of the components used for the construction of the girls' muscle and bone and not so much a deliberate decision.
I dunno, I seem to remember something being said about the second gens being "less well protected", or something to that effect. The conversation included words on increased lifespans and Sandro walking out at the end saying "that's still not long enough" or similar... but I can't find the passage either at the moment, so it may well be my mind playing tricks on me.



It's probably worth, at this juncture, figuring out how everyone views terms like "armour", "bullet proof", "bullet resistant" and the like. I know when I'm referring to the cyborgs being "moderately bullet resistant", what I mean is "there's a moderate chance the bullet will stop before hitting anything overly vital" (or alternately, under the standard "Alfisti Thumbsuck Method" of universe mechanic: within some broad outlines, if injuries from gunfire don't have much to do with the story at hand, it won't matter, if I need it to cause a problem, it will as much as I require it to.  sweat ). Which I'm getting the impression isn't the interpretation of others. It certainly doesn't mean that the bullet bounces off, stops short of penetrating muscle or doesn't causing bleeding etc. and, as PSVT noted: the girls' conditioning probably goes a long way toward making up the gap of shrugging off pain and keeping them going.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Your lack of planning does not constitute my emergency.
avatar
Alfisti

Male

Forum Posts : 5754

Location : A Town by the Sea, NSW Central Coast, Australia

Fan of : Triela, Hilshire, Priscilla, Ferro

Original Characters : Jethro + Monty

Comments : If in doubt, overdress.

Registration date : 2009-07-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 30 May 2014 - 9:18

It has been implicitly noted in the manga that the girl's conditioning allows them to shrug off pain. And it takes Triela but a moment to "shrug off" the bullet wound in her gut and proceed to disarm her attackers.

Within my universe, the First Generation girls could resist assault rifle rounds while the Second Generation could resist pistol rounds. Now "resist" is not "ignore" and would be dependent on type of ammunition, range of engagement, and such. In Under the Radar, Kara took three "through and throughs" in her stomach from 9x39mm armor-piercing bullets.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What? I like donuts! - Betty Suarez
If I die before my time, go on Oprah and tell the world 'I liked kittens'. - Veronica Mars
Scissors of victory! - Yui Hirasawa
avatar
Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Male

Forum Posts : 10896

Location : Seattle / Tokyo / Milan

Fan of : Angelica's Smile

Original Characters : Kara Michelle

Comments : The community's international man of mystery.

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by PolosElite23 on Fri 30 May 2014 - 10:10

I feel it is most likely a combination of some bullet resistance and the ability to ignore pain that makes them so effective. They're lithe and extremely mobile, have a cute factors a little girls, excellent marksmen and can take bullets, but still continue going on.

In part I feel that the whole conditioning "I hurt, but the pain goes away fast" (Henrietta to Elenora) thing makes it so taking bullets, is a dull pain after a second. Like some kind of switch. Add the fact that the cyborgs would be bullet resistant, may render body armor not necessary normally. Exception such as New Trino given.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
----
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.

-Stanzas 2+4 of Invictus by William Earnest Henley
avatar
PolosElite23

Male

Forum Posts : 914

Location : Ohio, USA

Fan of : Triela, Hillshire, and Angelica

Original Characters : Various

Comments : A journey of a lifetime starts with a blinking cursor.

Registration date : 2013-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by taerKitty on Fri 30 May 2014 - 10:35

In my fanfic, I go more than conditioning into bio-augmentation of their endocrine systems to

- Decrease the fear response so they remain ice-cool in the face of otherwise overwhelming stimulii.

- Dopamine-on-demand so they can truly "turn off" pain.

- Adrenaline-on-demand so they aren't set to Hulk strength at all times.

These are internally triggered, consciously so. This led to my "waterboard" scene with my OC, Dina.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Alfisti: "Welcome to the SWA... don't worry, your cyborg is probably less confused than you are".
avatar
taerKitty

Male

Forum Posts : 1172

Location : Pacific Northwest

Fan of : Claes

Original Characters : Dina & Paolo

Comments : The feelz... the feelz...

Registration date : 2012-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Cyborg Assualt Armor

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum