Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

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Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by MarkRosewater on Wed 18 Sep 2013 - 16:09

I regret to say my knowledge in weapons is lacking, and I need a little assistance. What is a powerful, silencer-friendly, easily concealed weapon that would be useful for up-close assassinations? I am hoping for a more unique, less used weapon, i.e. one not present in the canon universe.
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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Il Direttore on Wed 18 Sep 2013 - 16:16

To Pre-empt John_234: Glock ##

In all seriousness, the Glock 22 appears to be a good standard choice, with the Glock 23 and Glock 27 being compact and sub-compact sizes of the same weapon. It is chambered for .40 S&W, which apparently has good stopping power. 

Still, John_234 will probably, legitimately, have more information.

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 18 Sep 2013 - 16:37

Anything chambered for .22LR. 

A subsonic .22LR round fired from a pistol with a silencer is probably about as close in real life as you will get to the soft "pfft" sound Hollywood assumes all silenced weapons make. Very Happy

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Officer_Charon on Wed 18 Sep 2013 - 16:57

Glocks I can recommend from a user-friendly and durable standpoint. No idea how well a compact version with a supressor would handle, thought.

As Kisk said, I would look for something in a smaller caliber, if you're looking for a truly quiet weapon, for back-of-the-head operations.

Otherwise, I might recommend an H&K USP Tactical in 9mm - proven frame, suppressor-friendly (even if the rail system is non-standard), and fairly easy to conceal, if not COMPLETELY compact. I believe that H&K only offers the USP Tactical in Compact in .45 ACP - John, can you back me up on this?

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Alfisti on Wed 18 Sep 2013 - 17:08

I guess it really depends on what your precise needs are: are you looking for something specifically for an up-close and quiet assassination, or does it need to be something good for that sort of role, but able to function elsewhere?

If the former, then yeah, I would back Kisk with the .22LR, or possibly suggest something like the Welrod Silent (sorry, doing this whilst having my morning coffee at work right now, so can't go looking for pics). Those however are very specialised pieces of kit (and the Welrod's somewhat chunky anyway). If, however, you need a firearm to serve for quiet, up-close work, but also to function in a more general day-to-day role then they're probably not going to be so suitable.

On a final note: if you're using this for GsG, it's worth keeping in mind that, to my understanding (and I'm certainly not talking as an expert), .40 and .45 rounds are not so common in Europe.

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Officer_Charon on Wed 18 Sep 2013 - 17:14

Also, for close and silent kills, one can hardly go wrong with the tried and true method:




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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 18 Sep 2013 - 18:08

@Alfisti wrote:On a final note: if you're using this for GsG, it's worth keeping in mind that, to my understanding (and I'm certainly not talking as an expert), .40 and .45 rounds are not so common in Europe.
Correct. 9mm is pretty much the standard issue.

Which is why I had TOS Michele and Kara use the HK P2000SK chambered for .40S&W as it made CSI: Rome think the Americans did it. Razz

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 18 Sep 2013 - 18:12

@Officer_Charon wrote:Also, for close and silent kills, one can hardly go wrong with the tried and true method:
Kara: "I find it works well for me."


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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 18 Sep 2013 - 23:18

The SWA can obtain any calibre they want, though. .45 and .40 firearms shouldn't be an issue.

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Alfisti on Wed 18 Sep 2013 - 23:33

@Nachtsider wrote:The SWA can obtain any calibre they want, though. .45 and .40 firearms shouldn't be an issue.
True that, I guess it depends on how concerned you (or the character you're writing for) are about leaving evidence behind/what evidence is left behind. If you don't really care, or have a good cleanup crew then it's a non-issue. If you are worried about the possibility of leaving a more exotic (for want of a better word) round behind (or need to acquire ammunition by some means other than the SWA), then it's something to consider. *Shrugs*

I'm not saying "don't", I have "Mary Christmas" using firearms chambered in .40, I'm just saying think about it in terms of what is trying to be accomplished and in what context.

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by MarkRosewater on Thu 19 Sep 2013 - 9:41

I'm going to go with the USP with the .40 S&W. Seems good to me! Thanks! Very Happy

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by maverick375 on Thu 19 Sep 2013 - 21:57

A gun for show, a blade for a pro.

A silenced .22 is pretty quiet. A Walther P22 with a suppressor is nearly silent. On the indoor range the slide was the loudest noise, followed by the equally loud sound of the bullet slapping the cardboard target. Only a minor difference between a sub and sonic. At contact distance the noise from the bullet would be negligible, and probably lost into the skull or body.

Of course you could always go with a Nagant revolver with a suppressor.

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Awinnell on Fri 20 Sep 2013 - 13:53

De lisle silent carbine, Enfield action chambered in .45 calibre round, very rare in original but they are easy to make


 

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Odon on Fri 20 Sep 2013 - 15:02

@Awinnell wrote:De lisle silent carbine, Enfield action chambered in .45 calibre round, very rare in original but they are easy to make


 
It's silent until you work the bolt...

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 20 Sep 2013 - 15:53

@Odon wrote:
@Awinnell wrote:De lisle silent carbine, Enfield action chambered in .45 calibre round, very rare in original but they are easy to make


 
It's silent until you work the bolt...
Do it slowly and carefully (and have it well-oiled) and I think it would be quiet enough.

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 20 Sep 2013 - 17:17

> bolt-action
> close combat

wat

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 20 Sep 2013 - 19:43

@Nachtsider wrote:> bolt-action
> close combat

wat
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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Odon on Sat 21 Sep 2013 - 1:05

I looked up some examples of this weapon being fired on Youtube, and the (no doubt well oiled) bolt appears rather quiet.

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Alfisti on Sat 21 Sep 2013 - 2:30

@Awinnell wrote:De lisle silent carbine, Enfield action chambered in .45 calibre round, very rare in original but they are easy to make


 
Oddly enough, I considered this for J+M at one stage, until deciding that they really had no cause to possess one or bother lugging it around with them... not when both Jethro's P230 and Monty's PPK can take a suppressor which, while not as quiet, will cover them for 90% of the time and takes up much less space (though, mostly, I just prefer them character wise to be lightly armed and not have so many specialist tools). Right now the De Lisle is filed under "on the off chance I find a situation suitable".

But yes, it does seem to be quite quiet:

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by Odon on Sun 3 Nov 2013 - 7:37

There are two Soviet pistols developed from their work on the sealed cartridge system; the PSS 7.62 silent pistol and OTs-38 Stechkin revolver.  Their advantage (as I see it) is the lack of attached silencer means they'd be more easily concealed on the girl's small frame.

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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by taerKitty on Sun 3 Nov 2013 - 12:23

One thing to remember is the noise of the action.  Even if you trap the muzzle gasses, you're going to have the slide racking, the brass bouncing, and such.

For close in assassinations, I'd suggest more finesse, such as poison, a sap, a knife, or a garrote. All are pretty easy to conceal.

My OC carries a Gerber Mark II as part of her normal kit:


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Re: Good, Quiet Weapon for an Up-Close Hit

Post by John_234 on Tue 5 Nov 2013 - 6:47

Well, sorry if you've already gleaned an answer or otherwise found a solution, but Mark, I think you're taking an assassination weapon from the wrong perspective.

With SWA sorta stuff, you're probably planning out an assassination in detail and organizing ways to incriminate another person or otherwise doctor a crime scene for the police. In such situations, you probably want to deal with specific weapons. Like if you wanted to use bloody shoeprints that are taken from suspect X to incriminate them, you'd want to use a weapon that would make a mess and leave plenty of blood to step through, like a blade.

Conversely, the mob or a crooked cop would be expected to use very specific weapons, like a service pistol or a common import from another country.

What we see in GSG with say, Rico doing a hit entirely with her CZ-75 is not entirely accurate. Sure, it could happen once, but they do multiple jobs a week. It's done to give us a sense of consistency and familiarity with a character. If we were to be strictly realistic with assassination weapons, a USP, CZ-75, Beretta or other personal handgun would be applied when things went wrong and the agent had to fire in self-defense, but any weapon used to kill an important person in a planned attack would probably be disposed of after the fact.

Sometimes you may not use a suppressor, to implicate that the firearm was fired at point blank. You may use a gun not very logical for assassination, etc.

After all, it's trivially easy for the SWA to find throwaway guns to kill their enemies with. Or knives, cars, etc.

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