Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

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Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by TeaTimeNinja on Thu 7 Aug 2014 - 19:18

I really love bullpups, and I was curious of you guys' opinions of this american rifle. The 26" carbine variant is my OC Elly's primary instrument case weapon.



The casings are ejected out the front, which is weird to me. And i generally don't trust anything that's american made. That said; I really love the look of this thing. Accurate and powerful at a distance, compact and quick for close CQC.

Thoughts/opinions? Thanks.


Last edited by TeaTimeNinja on Thu 7 Aug 2014 - 19:19; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Formating error)
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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by Alfisti on Fri 8 Aug 2014 - 6:37

It's certainly a handsome looking beastie, in a functional kind of way. I'm not enough of gun person to give you a technical answer though, if that's what you were looking for, except to say that, depending on your fratello's "default" mission profile, a battle rifle may be a bit overkill for anything they do in a more urban context. As to KelTec themselves, reports seem to be... varied.

That said, neither is something that can't be written around.

From a story perspective I must admit, in the context of GsG, I tend to shy away from US-manufacture firearms. There's some quarter to be given to things in regular use by European militaries or agencies (eg. the M4 carbine) but, particularly for US civilian-market weapons, rightly or wrongly, for me they give the wrong feel for the series' primarily continental setting. Again though, that's just personal preference; your mileage may vary.

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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by TeaTimeNinja on Fri 8 Aug 2014 - 11:29

Yeah, cars, food, beer, guns... Americans suck at making them all. I surprised myself when I started considering this rifle. I think I picked it because no one else has picked it, I like to be as original as possible.

The gun itself is actually surprisingly small and could fit in a violin case. Plus looks like it would hit like a train, being 7.62 and all. It can also be suppressed!



Thanks for the feedback, I'll have to think about it some more.
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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by Professor Voodoo on Fri 8 Aug 2014 - 18:07

TeaTimeNinja wrote: I picked it because no one else has picked it, I like to be as original as possible.
I used it in my stories as well, simply because it takes the same round as the rifle I wanted to give my handler character.  Sorry I don't have much of an opinion beyond that...I'm pretty clueless on the topic of firearms.

The RFB does have a comparatively small magazine though...that could be an inconvenience but it could also be worked into the story.

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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by Thescarredman on Fri 8 Aug 2014 - 18:35

The fratelli, canon and OC, have a very wide range of weapons, some of them extremely unlikely (Henrietta's WA-2000 in the anime comes immediately to mind). They're armed with German, Italian, British, Czech, Russian, Israeli and Indian arms, so why not American brands, especially if the handler is familiar with them? The 7.62 is a common enough round, made in a dozen countries, so it doesn't leave any forensic fingerprints the way, say, .45 ACP might. It's a good choice.
And, by the way, MP's Allison might demand you take 'cars' off that list of things Americans don't do well.
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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by TeaTimeNinja on Fri 8 Aug 2014 - 19:55

aah, thanks for the input guys.

The cars thing is really just my opinion. It's like not like I've even owned an american car. or gun for that matter. I'm thinking I'll keep the RFB, I'm starting to like it.

There are 5, 10 and 20 round mags I think, but its not really a bullet hose. I guess Elly's gonna have to learn how to aim well.
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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by PSVT on Fri 8 Aug 2014 - 23:48

I don't have any particular opinions one way or the other about the RFB, certainly not in the technical sense. I'd echo the others in saying use any gun you'd like for your characters, as 1) in canon the SWA handlers and cyborgs do use a variety of weapons from a variety of origins, and 2) it's your world and you get to do whatever you want in it (within reason, of course  Wink). So, yeah, as long as it makes sense in relation to the mission profile, you can give your fratello whatever weapons your heart desires.

Or, you can go without guns altogether and use strictly bladed weapons, but that might go against the ethos of a story titled "Gunslinger Girl". Laughing
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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by TeaTimeNinja on Sat 9 Aug 2014 - 0:29

Bladerunner Girl? Sounds good to me! 

I feel like they would use handguns for 90% of outings. The RFB would probably be for assaults as opposed to incognito missions. That being said; the RFB does make a celebrity appearance in the prologue. 

Eager to get this thing finished already.

Their handguns:


Standard 3rd generation Walther P99 for her, P99QPQ for him. The main difference is that the QPQ is two toned.
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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by Alfisti on Sat 9 Aug 2014 - 21:02

Thescarredman wrote:The fratelli, canon and OC, have a very wide range of weapons, some of them extremely unlikely (Henrietta's WA-2000 in the anime comes immediately to mind). They're armed with German, Italian, British, Czech, Russian, Israeli and Indian arms, so why not American brands, especially if the handler is familiar with them? The 7.62 is a common enough round, made in a dozen countries, so it doesn't leave any forensic fingerprints the way, say, .45 ACP might. It's a good choice.
Honestly, there really is no real logical reason to exclude US brands of firearms and, as others have noted, anything else needed can be written around and justified. I dunno, it's really just a feel/atmosphere thing to me. If I were writing something set in the US, then I wouldn't find any issue. It's personal taste.


TeaTimeNinja wrote:Yeah, cars, food, beer, guns... Americans suck at making them all.
That's possibly a little unkind. Looking from the outside, I think the North American market tends to suffer from being a little too cost driven, and so mainstream manufacturers are forced to chase the bottom line to remain competitive. That aside, there are plenty of little indie outfits kicking that trend, and I think it's a trend that is slowly changing. US manufacture cars, for example, have a much better rep now than they did a decade ago.

As an aside, there was an interesting article in one of the newspapers printed here a little while back where an automotive journalist went to test the US-market version of the Mercedes CLA (I know, not a US manufacturer, but bear with me), a he had previously tested the Australian release of. Yes, the US version was significantly cheaper, and we're talking in the order of half the price here. However the verdict was that, with number of compromises in terms of materials, fitout, equipment, etc Mercedes had needed to make in order to bring the car in at a price point palatable to the US market (as opposed to a European or Australian market), it was no-longer the "premium" proposition it had been billed as.

Now, that's not an indictment against one market or the other either, but I find it interesting the changes made to what is essentially the same product in order to address the requirements of different markets, and also how that is then going to effect manufacturers building primarily in one market or the other.


Also, I do rather like the P99 family. Nice thing about these polymer guns is that they are reasonably easy to draw too.  Wink

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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by TeaTimeNinja on Sat 9 Aug 2014 - 22:07

I agree not all things American suck. I'm just not a fan of Harley Davidson, Chevy, GMC, GM, and so on. I'm okay with Ford, they did sort of jump start the industry. I've always preferred German/imported when it comes to cars/motorcycles.

Having ridden both Harleys and Japanese bikes, and driving American and Japanese cars, I can say they're not even in the same league. Quality or performance.

Maybe I'm just bias, who knows?
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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by Professor Voodoo on Sun 10 Aug 2014 - 1:31

TeaTimeNinja wrote:
There are 5, 10 and 20 round mags I think, but its not really a bullet hose. I guess Elly's gonna have to learn how to aim well.
In retrospect I think that's one of the reasons I chose it for my OC team.  
Knowing his Marisa was on the hyperactive side Elio intentionally chose a weapon that would force her to think about the shots she took.  He had every intention of letting her switch to something different as her skills & control developed, but underestimated how attached cyborgs get to any "gift" from their handler.

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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by TeaTimeNinja on Sun 10 Aug 2014 - 1:37

I've changed it to a Kel-Tec RDB, the new 5.56 version. accepts AR15 mags, so that's 30 rounds. Plus, I just prefer 5.56. But it's not like I've even shot either...

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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by Officer_Charon on Wed 13 Aug 2014 - 3:53

I'd take the 7.62 over the 5.56, any day. But that's just my preference - I'm a whore for the M14/M1A, after all. When I FINALLY get around to assembling my AR-platform, it'll be in 7.62/.308.

Kel-Tec makes a solid pistol, tight, accurate, solid. I've not had the opportunity to fire one of their rifles, nor talk to anyone else who has. But I should think that they'd be along the same lines.

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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by Vett on Wed 13 Aug 2014 - 7:35

Something to bear in mind regarding weapons is that it's not necessarily about what you've got, but who else has it.

I think 7.62x51 is a NATO round, which means you're firing off military fingerprints everywhere... except it's not just hte military who have assault weapons.

The criminal underworld will have illegal firearms too, and all they care about is being able to acquire some: they're not fussy about the provenance. While you'd expect ex-soviet weaponry and a smattering of ex-Lybian arms, with the cross-atlantic links between italian organised crime (and the larger links to South America), legally purchasing american weapons and smuggling them over is a viable avenue, especially in some of the docks in the south that are almost owned by criminal elements.

Yes there's a military round... but that doesn't mean it's fired by the military: it's just another gang-land killing, except the shooters were really brassed off.

In short, american purchased arms served the IRA well for decades (more or less), and there's no reason it's going to be a red flag indicating a super-secret black ops team stuffed with child cyborgs (and if you're using an assault rifle, it's the cyborg bit you want to keep quiet, not so much that the govenment has done it).

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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by Awinnell on Wed 13 Aug 2014 - 10:19

'Etta's P-90 in full automatic is only available for Military purchase, so you could safely assume that in this universe at least no cares about the problems of covering up the use of military hardware against civilian targets

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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by PSVT on Wed 13 Aug 2014 - 22:26

Seconding what Vett said in terms of the availability and conspicuousness of military-grade weapons and ammunition. If anyone were to find spent casings or bullet fragments from an SWA gunfight, they would, almost necessarily, suspect a large number of other groups and individuals before they got anywhere close to suspecting a charity organization run by the government.

As far as which type of round is "better," I would imagine 7.62x51 mm NATO packs a much larger punch and has a better chance of knocking down an enemy than 5.56 x 45 mm NATO. But, there are some downsides to the larger round, including increased recoil and fewer rounds per magazine. It really depends on what Elly is actually supposed to be as a cyborg, and what her mission is. In my case, because Eleonora's role is that of bodyguard, she wields an Ak 5D Mk2 (otherwise a Swedish variant of the FN FNC). The Ak 5D Mk2 is compact enough to fit into a rather large purse/bag or backpack and it fires the 5.56 mm round, giving her enough firepower to take down moderately armed and armored assailants. On the other hand, I don't know of any rifles compact enough for her to hide effectively which fire the 7.62 mm round. That was my rationale for my choice of firearm.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if Elly's using the R(D|F)B, it really doesn't matter if it's 5.56 mm or 7.62 mm because it's the same size either way. It also might be a bit more fun if she did have a limit on the number of rounds available to her. sweat
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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by TeaTimeNinja on Thu 14 Aug 2014 - 7:43

I just like the idea of more rounds less recoil. plus the mags are easier to come by. not that finding mags would ever be an issue, but still.
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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by John_234 on Tue 30 Jun 2015 - 19:17

The RFB is one of those really mediocre firearms that only really has a market within the US. In that ways it's a lot like the KSG! It's suffered reliability problems through it's entire life, reviews have always been mixed. Some rifles have exploded firing out of battery. You can't really clear jams like conventional firearms either, since the ejection port isn't exposed.

Kel-Tec firearms wouldn't make sense in Europe because they don't really export - it would imply some sort of international involvement if they matched bullets to a Kel-Tec gun or found a rifle you had to ditch. So from the whole SWA and plausible deniability end of things, the RFB and other Kel-Tec products don't make much sense, on top of generally being poorly made firearms.

FN, H&K (maybe not so much now), Beretta, you have a lot better options available within Europe, or even the Tavor or AUG at a stretch.

Though the RFB does not have a small magazine. I mean - it uses FN FAL magazines. They're essentially standard capacity at 20 rounds for a 7.62x51mm platform. The 5.56 vs 7.62 thing basically comes down to what you're using the gun for -  I mean if you're assassinating some guy in an a densely populated urban area, having the 7.62's penetrative abilities is counter-productive, probably. The 5.56 has pretty good soft tissue effect within two hundred meters and has very little recoil, the ammo is lighter. If you shoot guys in vehicles or in intermediate cover, or are working from long range 7.62  is going to make more sense.

You'd probably have one of each, if anything.

As for the quality of American firearms... Must be why militaries like the Canadians use American-made small arms and cannons in their AFVs. Or the British. Or the Germans. Or the French... I mean, when H&K's most successful product is an AR-15, you know German engineering isn't going too hot! lol. American firearms trends are increasingly influential on European gun-makers. Most major manufactures now have an AR-type rifle to be competitive, and these rifles are also winning contracts. That comment strikes me as highly ignorant in that respect.

(Also hi people, I'm just poking around. Sorry about the necroposting, couldn't resist the topic.)

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Re: Opinions of the Kel-Tek RFB carbine 7.62x51 bullpup

Post by MP5 on Tue 30 Jun 2015 - 19:30

I've held one of these-- it's smaller than I thought it was!

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