There must be another way!!!!!

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by West Nile on Sun 2 Mar 2008 - 2:29

This isn't a kill the Cyborg thread this is a
SAVE THE GIRLS THREAD Hissy fit

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by Wileama on Sun 2 Mar 2008 - 3:00

Sorry, perhaps we can have the admins move this to a new thread?

That said I know I should wait till they do that, but I can't help myself. Well I probably could, but I don't want to.

Angie takes a 9mm to the chest, and practically drops. In volume seven a rifle round to the gut leaves Triela very dizzy. I don't think the skull can take much more then a .45, maybe .50 pistol cartridge. These rounds do damage, and with the volume of fire some of it is going get past the girls defenses. We've only ever seen a girl soak up something like 3-5 rounds at a time. They may be tough, but their not invisible.

Also I don't see the Fartello rolling around in a armored vehicles. The return on investment isn't there. That, and Jose rolls around in a convertible Ferrari. So even if some are armored, I think it's a rarity. If nothing else remove the cars. In volume seven Triela runs out of ammo taking on what 5 guys? Only two of which where decently armed. If the group had been a bit better trained, or better armed she might not have walked away.

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by West Nile on Sun 2 Mar 2008 - 3:09

There is a freak'in -my ideas on how to kill a cyborg - thread, use it!!!

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by Piero on Sun 2 Mar 2008 - 3:54

Hmmm... finding precise prices on specific models of armoured Mercedes isn't overly easy, but I may have really underestimated them. Apparently an armoured E Class can cost up to $250,000 (not including a so called 'AMG upgrade,' whatever that is), which is way more then an ordinary E Class. Of course, that price was contained in an answer that was given in response to a question about vehicles with a level six (presumably B6, which can take non AP 7.62x51mm) protection level rather then the B4 level of protection I'd read about on the factory armoured cars (which can take a .44 magnum round), so perhaps they were either a higher end model or a an aftermarket modification. Although the way it was phrased didn't seem to rule out the idea of it being an E Class with factory installed B4 protection entirely.

We've seen some of the handlers driving very nice cars, but most of them didn't look like the cost the equivalent of a quarter of a million dollars. (BTW, isn't Jose's car a Porsche Boxster? They're pricey, but far less so then a recent Ferrari would generally be.)

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 2 Mar 2008 - 7:38

@West Nile wrote:There is a freak'in -my ideas on how to kill a cyborg - thread, use it!!!
Your save the girls thread turned into a kill the girls thread. Ain't that a bitch...

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by West Nile on Sun 2 Mar 2008 - 7:41

thank god someone feels the same way. vol 9 shows some rays of light i think, but im not to sure, someone has to look it up.

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 2 Mar 2008 - 13:16

You die, she dies, everybody dies.
There is no solution to this, but plenty of shortcuts.

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by Tommygunner70 on Sun 2 Mar 2008 - 13:20

@Danjo3 wrote:
@West Nile wrote:There is a freak'in -my ideas on how to kill a cyborg - thread, use it!!!
Your save the girls thread turned into a kill the girls thread. Ain't that a bitch...

Aint that a bitch indeed.

@West Nile wrote:thank god someone feels the same way. vol 9 shows some rays of light i think, but im not to sure, someone has to look it up.

Lol, you just wait, I'll start punching out Scanlations soon. i am guessing towards Wednesday, but dont hold me to that, it might be before that, or after that.

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by Wileama on Sun 2 Mar 2008 - 17:12

@West Nile wrote:There is a freak'in -my ideas on how to kill a cyborg - thread, use it!!!
Oh yeah, there is hu...

My bad man, it was rude of me not to move my reply over to a different thread. I'll go ahead, and put my next post in How to Kill a Cyborg.

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by emperor on Mon 3 Mar 2008 - 0:08

@Wileama wrote:
@West Nile wrote:There is a freak'in -my ideas on how to kill a cyborg - thread, use it!!!
Oh yeah, there is hu...

My bad man, it was rude of me not to move my reply over to a different thread. I'll go ahead, and put my next post in How to Kill a Cyborg.

If you want like that... Smile
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Post by Angiegarde on Wed 12 Mar 2008 - 23:37

Personally, I too am hoping that they'll find a way to save the girls so that they can have long and happy lives but I'm not counting on the canon sources (anime and manga) to do that when you consider what happened to Angelica in volume 9 of the manga (frowns sadly).

I suppose that they could simply modify/readjust their implants as they grow up (if they ever do).
As for their conditioning, they could simply keep it to the minimum required like Jose and Hillshire do with Henrietta and Triela.

One thing's for sure, Henrietta and the other girls should NOT have to die young. They've done a great deal for the SWA and Italy so their deserve to have long and happy lives and just might be able to have them regardless of what certain fatalists in the GSG fan community think.
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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 12 Mar 2008 - 23:41

That last bit of yours could not be more true, Ryan. A lot of people tend to forget that these girls are heroines in every sense of the word.

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by West Nile on Fri 14 Mar 2008 - 3:05

a tid-bit on the bodily developments. most of the time we see that if the girls are injured the entire appendage is swapped. but when Angie was injured she was just given a cast. does that mean that her body is still capable of healing it's self, does that mean that her bones are still growing and does that mean that they are growing taller?

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 14 Mar 2008 - 3:30

Injured when, Nile?

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by West Nile on Fri 14 Mar 2008 - 4:18

she was in a wheel chair in episode 2 season 1, didn't she sprain her leg on episode 12 as well?

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 14 Mar 2008 - 4:20

I don't remember seeing any plaster casts, Nile.

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by West Nile on Fri 14 Mar 2008 - 4:46

... but they didn't replace her leg for those injuries right?

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 14 Mar 2008 - 4:56

Maybe it was just a minor injury that didn't warrant replacement, Nile.

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by West Nile on Fri 14 Mar 2008 - 5:00

minor injury requring a wheel chair? minor injury requring Angie to beg to Marco to let her join the next assignment?

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by Guest on Fri 14 Mar 2008 - 5:10

You have to remember that Angie's pretty frail, Nile. Even though she had to beg Marco and even though she needed a wheelchair, the injury itself could have been a minor one.

Like in Ep 12...she was brought to her knees by, what, three bullets? Maybe slightly more? Granted, it depends on the calibre, but even so.

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 14 Mar 2008 - 5:10

Okay, Nile - let's get down to brass tacks. The leg injury Angie sustained in Episode Twelve clearly didn't warrant replacement, but Angie had to beg Marco to participate in the following mission because serious injury or not, Marco probably did not want to take any chances where it came to his fratello's safety or endangering the mission. And as for the time we saw Angie in a wheelchair - who knows what happened to make her that way. Perhaps she got seriously injured on a mission, and had her mobility temporarily impaired.

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by West Nile on Fri 14 Mar 2008 - 5:27

sigh... fine shoot me down, all i wanted to say was that the girls "might" still be able to grow.

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 14 Mar 2008 - 18:07

Miss a couple of days and I miss the fun?!!
My internet & phone is down (systemwide repairs), so I have to barrow a connection here and there where I can.

Anyways, being cyborgs, Angie's problems are not the repair themselves, but of the interfacing of natural and synthetic components. She has to relearn how to use a certain part again when such a part is replaced. Like in Henrietta's case, where that arm tissue was replaced, she stated that 'it feels a bit heavy', because her nerves have not connected to it yet to become self supporting. Depending on the technologies used by the SWA, this can take days to heal or weeks. Thus this time, Angie's legs are inoperatable until the connections kick in.

Now how the connections kick in, ask a physical thearpist.

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by PolosElite23 on Wed 29 Jan 2014 - 21:44

"Sir, we're loosing it!"

"400 watt/seconds....ready...clear!"

So the whole "no nanomachines" has been debunked by cannon. So there is a possibility. Also given there is no reason the conditioning could have been reversed by the time the Gen 2s started reaching the end of their lifespans.

Or not?

There could be the fact that there maybe was no real way to reverse it, or do so in time. They could have never even started trying to do so.

But regardless...Any ideas on how to "save the girls" or do you believe they're meant to die.

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by Alfisti on Thu 30 Jan 2014 - 7:10

I think there are all sorts of ways you could choose to save the girls should you so wish... the ending is left pretty open (though I've yet to read the epilogue): a revised conditioning cocktail, cybernetics requiring less to "grease the connections" as it were, some way to clean the drug build-up and so-on. Frankly, the mechanics of the technology is pretty ill-defined: I think Yu was using the tech to backdrop the world, rather than writing technology for the sake of technology so, if you can justify it (preferably with some reference to canon and not too much in the way of hand-wavery) it's probably fair game.

That said, for me personally, the "death clock" is a very important part of the feel of the series, so I don't intend to do any "cyborg saving" in my own writing. That's just me though, your mileage may vary.

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by crazyidiot78 on Thu 30 Jan 2014 - 22:18

FYI- this one is going out on a limb but what about the girls getting fully body cybernetic bodies alla ghost in the shell.  They would be early models compared to the majors but it would remove some of the growth issues and rejection issues.  The neural issues might be able to be treated using nanomachines but it would help some of the girls at least for a little while.  It also doesn't hurt that I find the idea of Triela or Claes getting an upgrade amusing.
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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 31 Jan 2014 - 0:35

I am inclined to believe that they eventually succumb to their conditioning.

In my original ("TOS") set of stories, Kara lasted about five years as a cyborg before passing.

For Idyllic Lives, Claes is closing in on a decade as a cyborg, but the Medical Staff don't really understand why she has lived that long.

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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by tremec6speed on Fri 31 Jan 2014 - 2:13

Nano tech will prolly be used more and more in one way or another. As technology is always advancing, what seemed impassible yesterday could be just one invention away from opening up new horizons. Such breakthroughs while resolving one (or more) problems (conditioning drugs=brain deterioration) could lead to new difficulties (side effects to 'nano-drugs'?), creating more avenues for new stories to be told an so on.
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Re: There must be another way!!!!!

Post by crazyidiot78 on Fri 31 Jan 2014 - 18:09

All true, I'm just in a more idealistic place right now so I like the idea that they might be able to live.  When they are pretty much screwed.
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