Fleda Claes Johanson

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Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by emperor on Wed 23 Apr 2008, 05:10

Voiced by: Ami Koshimizu (Japanese), Alese Watson (English) in Gunslinger Girl
Voiced by: Risa Mizuno in Gunslinger Girl: Il Teatrino

Once known as Fleda Claes Johansson, this girl has undefined origins, although she is revealed to be the only normal, healthy subject before undergoing cybernetic surgery. In the beginning, Claes is confined to the Agency, unable to participate in missions with the other girls because her handler, Raballo, has died. She is used as a test subject by the cyborg engineers, who utilize controlled situations and equipment to monitor the usefulness of her implants[6]. Claes wears glasses from her life before her cybernetic operation as a visual reminder of the promise she once made to Raballo and is knowledgeable and mature for her age[7]. In volume four, she trespasses into the indoor shooting range and is promptly told off by Giuseppe, although it is too late and her memory is sparked by the scent of gunpowder and watching the other people shoot at targets. Additionally, in volume seven, where despite only knowing hand-to-hand combat with no knowledge of how to wield a firearm, Claes was allowed to attend a mission carried out by Alessandro and Petrushka. However, due to her pact with Raballo, she was afraid of actively harming another person and did not fire the pistol she was given. She is deeply troubled by her dreams as well, because she sees Raballo in them, but does not know who he is. Claes's preferred weapons were the H&K VP70M and the MP5K PDW. On the mission in volume seven, she carried a Taurus Millennium Pro PT138 pistol.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 23 Apr 2008, 05:14

Claes' origins are not undefined. She was the daughter of a professor, who instilled in her an interest in reading - all the photos of Claes prior to her coming to the Agency show her with books. And it isn't confirmed that she was healthy prior to becoming a cyborg - nowhere in canon is it said so. Truth is, when I look at the photo of Claes before she came to the Agency, I don't get the impression that she was a particularly healthy child. She looks frail, if you ask me.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 23 Apr 2008, 13:11

Rabello did give Claes extensive firearms training. Its her internal conflict of her pact with Rabello that she did not use her gun against those in the mission.

As proof, in the Anime, Claes was able to defend herself accordingly, when she took off her glasses during her rescue. So there is some programming in which running in Claes' head not one one is aware of.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by sasahara17 on Sun 27 Apr 2008, 08:29

I dunno why, but very recently when I was watching Sayonara Zetsubo-sensei, I got wierd vibes from Chiri Kitsu; whenever she appeared on screen, there was a part of me that kept thinking I was seeing Claes instead. WTF...

Anywa, more to dicussion of Claes as a character, what do you thinki it will take for Claes to break her vow of non-violence (aside from the obvious 'Jean killed Raballo' situation that seems to come to mind)?

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 27 Apr 2008, 08:54

If it would take violence to save the lives of those she cared about, I reckon Claes would not hold anything back.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 27 Apr 2008, 13:44

In Episode 12 where Cleas gets kidnapped, all she did was take off her glasses. Despite the concerns of the other handlers saying "Claes does not have enough combat experience", she did rather well on her own. If somehow she were to to have received a radio call that she has to save herself, Claes could take on the entire house of terrorists herself.

In the Manga, though she fought, both Petra and then the terrorist- again, the glasses come into play. Glasses off, she kicked Petra's ass. I dont care about the comments of Petra was unaware of whats going on- Claes kicked her ass. With the Terrorist- glasses on, she was forced to defend herself minimally at best. If something were to have happened toknock of those glasses off her face- that terrorist would have a snowball's chance in hell in surviving the fight.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 27 Apr 2008, 14:08

Claes knocked Petra down (knocked her down, not beat her up) because Petra was not fighting back. In a one-on-one fight, Perta would make dog food out of Claes. And I really hate to say that because I love Claes and really hate Petra.

As far as the fight on the boat was concerned - Claes fucked up big time. She knew that Petra’s life was in danger (as was her own) yet she still could not pull the trigger. SHE CHOKED. Plain and simple.

*Edit*
If you look back at vol.7, it was the terrorist who was kicking Claes’ ass before Petra stepped in.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 27 Apr 2008, 20:01

Lets look at the Claes vs Petra fight...


Petra tried to fight back but was outclassed by Claes. Period.
No excuses of 'She's her friend' or 'She did not expect to be attacked'... This is Gunslinger Girl, where attacks could come at anytime and at anyplace, and the girls are aware of this. Petra being caught off gaurd is no excuse. Petra was outclassed by Claes and lost. The proof is that she tried to fight back and was defeated.

Here it is... in all its B/W Glory.

We can discuss this all we want, but Petra tried to hit Claes back and missed. So much for cyborg reflexes- They did manage to save Petra from having her head lopped off!

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by LoC978 on Sun 27 Apr 2008, 22:52

Danjo wrote:In a one-on-one fight, Petra would make dog food out of Claes
Armed, you're probably right. Unarmed, I'd have to say you're entirely wrong. Claes has massive strength and resilience advantages over Petra... not to mention a faster, more cunning mind, and a serious intimidation factor. Petra would be her own worst enemy trying to fight any of the stage one girls, and if it came down to it, I think Claes is the type to capitalize on that.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Wileama on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 00:25

Okay first of all, Elfen. Petra is caught off guard, and in my opinion choosing not to fight back. That Claes grabs, is most likely out there for balance. It doesn't have any of the signs of being a striking hand. So yes Petra is going to get her ass handed to her in that situation. Also I read a fan fic that made a good point about the glasses in episode 12. Claes most likely took them off primarily to protect them. She knew she was going to do something dangerous, and didn't want the glasses getting broken.

Claes definitely still seems to have some memory of her unarmed combat training. She's just too elegant, and controlled. Further more unlike her weapon handling she doesn't feel completely unwilling to use it. I'm not convinced however that second gens should be that much weaker, or slower then the first gens to make a noticeable difference. I'm not convinced that she could beat Petra so easily, so regularly.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by West Nile on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 00:40

@Nachtsider wrote:If it would take violence to save the lives of those she cared about, I reckon Claes would not hold anything back.

who she cares about? well with Rabalo gone... that's Triela right?

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 00:42

I'm sure she cares about all the other cyborgs - Triela, in particular, I regard as the closest who comes to being a best friend for Claes. Elsa, on the other hand, I imagine she'd have disliked and even gotten into spats with.

That's the problem with the canon, really - it doesn't focus too much on cyborg-cyborg relationships. Which is why I like to focus on this department in my fics.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by West Nile on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 00:44

yeah but u have to remember, during vol 9 a lot of what we thought as close relationship, does not actaully exist, i thought everyone will be depressed by angie's death, that wasn't d case though

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 00:45

Personally, I like to think that coping mechanisms were at work there.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by emperor on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 01:13

Claes : 1 Petra:0

:dance:

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by West Nile on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 01:15

last time i check it was Triela: 1 Claes: 2 Petra: -2

(snow claes reference)

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Danjo3 on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 02:12

@Wileama wrote:Okay first of all, Elfen. Petra is caught off guard, and in my opinion choosing not to fight back. That Claes grabs, is most likely out there for balance. It doesn't have any of the signs of being a striking hand. So yes Petra is going to get her ass handed to her in that situation. Also I read a fan fic that made a good point about the glasses in episode 12. Claes most likely took them off primarily to protect them. She knew she was going to do something dangerous, and didn't want the glasses getting broken.
I’m with Wileama 100% on this Elfen. You’re making that confrontation sound like a straight out fight when it was anything but. Claes is going ass-crazy while Petra is simply making a half hearted attempt to defend herself. Petra doesn’t want to fight Claes and is obliviously confused as to why she is acting the way she is. Shit, look at the very last picture - she’s just laying there, doing nothing. No real fight would end like that. There’s no doubt in my mind that this is something Petra wants no part of.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 02:30

@Wileama wrote:Also I read a fan fic that made a good point about the glasses in episode 12. Claes most likely took them off primarily to protect them. She knew she was going to do something dangerous, and didn't want the glasses getting broken.

Good ol' Deathra. Wish she was here.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Danjo3 on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 02:55

@Nachtsider wrote:
@Wileama wrote:Also I read a fan fic that made a good point about the glasses in episode 12. Claes most likely took them off primarily to protect them. She knew she was going to do something dangerous, and didn't want the glasses getting broken.
Good ol' Deathra. Wish she was here.
I think Deathra's story summed up Claes' relationship with her glasses perfectly.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 03:00

Which is why that fic owns so hard. It's the perfect, sensible counterpoint to all those people who say Claes goes bezerk with glasses off and is calm with them on - a point of view that seems black and white to the point of silliness, if you ask me.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Wileama on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 04:03

I was contemplating go through Fanfiction.net to find the story, as I could not remember which it was. Clearly there was no need for that.

I'm sure the glasses cause a bit of schism in Claes's personality. However it is by no means a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde situation. It is more some where in between.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 12:58



It has been stated in the Mangas (Vol. 2/Chpt 6 & 7/Chpt 34) and in the Amine: #5:Promessa that Rabello made Claes promise that she would act in a peaceful and kinder way when wearing the glasses. Then the glasses come off- as an example- when she is on a mission- she is no longer that kind peaceful person, she is a true gunslinger girl. But in the Promise, Rabello told her to think before pulling the trigger.

This promise is so deep in her psyche that it over rides much of her Gunslinger Girl Programming. In short, Rabello did well and right by Claes. If he would have remained alive, such concerns of Claes' combat abilities would be a moot point. I think it is a moot point, as he trained her to function without his being there. This point has been discussed before, as in due to his knee injury, Rabello would not be able to be there for her on missions and has to train her to act on her own.

But this my POV, Claes is more capable than most of the cyborgs, and is capable of defeating anyone of them because she was trained to think and act fast. The only thing that keeps her in check is those glasses of hers, and thats because Rabello made her promise and that promise goes deeper than her cyborg conditioning.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Danjo3 on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 13:14

@ElfenMagix wrote:I think it is a moot point, as he trained her to function without his being there. This point has been discussed before, as in due to his knee injury, Rabello would not be able to be there for her on missions and has to train her to act on her own.
It is true that Raballo had a knee injury and would definitely have problems keeping up, but there is nothing in canon that says he trained Claes to act independently of him. It would make sense, but it’s still just your personal opinion.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Wileama on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 13:41

Ditto to what Danjo said. It makes sense, but there is no proof. Which is how a lot of things here go, so It's probably true. That said it doesn't automatically make her better then the rest of the girls. Even if it did, she's not the same girl. We don't know how much of Raballo's training survived the rewrite. She doesn't even know who she made the promise to. There is no telling how controlled the erasing process was. All memories prior to her rewrite could be just as foggy, as those dealing with Raballo. There isn't a shred of evidence that she remembers any significant amount of her training. Considering the amount of conditioning that had to be used, it's safer to say that she forgot.

Further more her glasses are not some light switch. She is not Dr. Jyklle, and Mr. Hyde. It's more complicated then that. The glasses are not the only thing holding her in check.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Danjo3 on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 13:52

It should also be mentioned that the other girls are kept knife sharp by constant training, day in and day out. Claes is not. A distant, foggy memory of training is only going to get you so far.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 13:53

Only 1 thing I can point to is her 'first training mission' in both the manga (v2/c6) and the amine (5:Promessa). Reballo sent Claes out on her own into the subway station to deal with the punks on her own while he waited outside. Very much like Lauro sending Elsa in on her own in her episode.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Danjo3 on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 14:01

@ElfenMagix wrote:Only 1 thing I can point to is her 'first training mission' in both the manga (v2/c6) and the amine (5:Promessa). Reballo sent Claes out on her own into the subway station to deal with the punks on her own while he waited outside.
He was still there and he still told her what to do and according to him, she fucked it up.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 28 Apr 2008, 16:55

I dont think this mission was planned even though it may have had the agency's blessings. Worse- "Jean Recommended it at the last minute."

So, Rabello had to tell her what to expect and what to do. She went on her own to get it done with out his presence, though he was nearby. She fucked up because she got stabbed. Otherwise- she did accomplish the mission in taking out the thugs.

If you consider how many times Triela got wrecked on a successful mission, Claes did very well. Rabello was just upset at her getting stabbed and in that thinks she used poor judgement by letting them get into a knife's range. In the least she had the instinct to shoot them dead.

Well, we weren't in the trainstation with Claes, so we do not know what happened in there.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by West Nile on Sun 04 May 2008, 03:32

... was that a mission? i saw it as a test... didn't Raballo say something like "in this form of training, i want you to go through this subway without making a fuss. in short go through the entire lenght without making people find out that ur a cyborg..."

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 04 May 2008, 03:44

It was 'on-the-job training', at any rate - training with living, breathing, resisting targets as opposed to rifle silhouettes. That kind of training is far more valuable than anything you do on the gun range.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by LoC978 on Sun 04 May 2008, 23:49

assuming you live through it.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 04 May 2008, 23:56

Well, yeah. Which is why Raballo picked a low-risk job for Claes to cut her teeth.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Totoum on Sun 07 Sep 2008, 06:40

@ElfenMagix wrote: If something were to have happened toknock of those glasses off her face- that terrorist would have a snowball's chance in hell in surviving the fight.

I'm still not sure about that.

Even when she took Petra down she did it unconsciously,her body acted all by itself, but as soon as she realized what she did she felt really guilty.

I think that,despite what is shown in episode 12, even if she took off her glasses off she'd still have no clue of how to fight.

Maybe if one of the terrorists would have taken her glasses she would have fought to get them back but would have stopped as soon as she did.

That makes me wonder,what would happen if her glasses broke somehow?Would the promise break with them?Would the shock bring back all her memories?

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 07 Sep 2008, 06:43

@Totoum wrote:That makes me wonder,what would happen if her glasses broke somehow? Would the promise break with them? Would the shock bring back all her memories back?
Again, I think that viewing the promise as being something that could just go away with the breaking of the glasses is a very shallow way of interpreting the whole thing.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Totoum on Sun 07 Sep 2008, 07:06

@Nachtsider wrote:
@Totoum wrote:That makes me wonder,what would happen if her glasses broke somehow? Would the promise break with them? Would the shock bring back all her memories back?
Again, I think that viewing the promise as being something that could just go away with the breaking of the glasses is a very shallow way of interpreting the whole thing.

What lead me to say that was that if we suppose Claes would fight until she got her glasses back (like she did when Petra took them ) then she'd have to keep on fighting forever if someone broke them since she wouldn't be able to get them back.

Of course my supposition could be completely wrong Puzzled

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 07 Sep 2008, 07:13

The glasses are just a pair of glasses, albeit a pair of glasses that Claes knows are precious to her for some reason. If they did break, she would, of course be supremely upset. But why people feel that the promise would be gone with them is totally beyond me. Come on, folks - give Claes' mental faculties more credit, here. The human mind isn't something that functions on such a simple level.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Totoum on Sun 07 Sep 2008, 07:32

@Nachtsider wrote:Come on, folks - give Claes' mental faculties more credit

I give Claes' mental faculties a lot of credit,but the thing is that when Petra took the glasses she acted against her own mental judgement,she surprised herself!So her mental faculties had nothing to do with it.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by TTIO on Sun 07 Sep 2008, 07:40

@Nachtsider wrote:The glasses are just a pair of glasses, albeit a pair of glasses that Claes knows are precious to her for some reason. If they did break, she would, of course be supremely upset. But why people feel that the promise would be gone with them is totally beyond me. Come on, folks - give Claes' mental faculties more credit, here. The human mind isn't something that functions on such a simple level.


Could be symbolic - like the conch in Lord of the Flies.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by West Nile on Sun 07 Sep 2008, 11:10

@Totoum wrote:
@Nachtsider wrote:
@Totoum wrote:That makes me wonder,what would happen if her glasses broke somehow? Would the promise break with them? Would the shock bring back all her memories back?
Again, I think that viewing the promise as being something that could just go away with the breaking of the glasses is a very shallow way of interpreting the whole thing.

What lead me to say that was that if we suppose Claes would fight until she got her glasses back (like she did when Petra took them ) then she'd have to keep on fighting forever if someone broke them since she wouldn't be able to get them back.

Of course my supposition could be completely wrong Puzzled

the glasses could be attributed to a wedding ring

1. it's the sign of a promise
2. people would take it off when they break that promise
ex. a man takes it of when he talks to his mistress, claes takes it of before she beats someone up
3. but #2 it does not apply to all situations
4. if you see people going around wearing it you will be really pissed and will ask him to give it back
5. if someone breaks it (loses it in the case of the ring) you'd be so pissed that you'd want to kill that guy, not go on a murderous rampage. and if ever it happens it does not mean ur not married anymore it just means that you either live without one or get a new one

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Guest on Sun 07 Sep 2008, 21:21

One of my favourite characters in gunslinger girls

Dont you feel that she really stands out from the rest of the group with her calm yet sort of cold attitude towards you? (unlike the KAWAI kind of things expected from henrietta, angelica and rico....dont know about triela though.....maybe a combination of two?...lol)

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 28 Oct 2008, 16:24

Did the community ever come to a consensus as to where Claes was from? I have an idea, but if it's already been agreed upon, I don't want to re-open a superfluous discussion.
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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by ElfenMagix on Tue 28 Oct 2008, 18:23

Kisk- No. Theories abound however.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 28 Oct 2008, 18:36

Okay.

When it comes to the patronymic of "Son of Johan", the Swedish spelling is "Johansson" and it is the most common last name in the country. This is said to be distinctly different from the Danish/Norwegian spelling ("Johansen") as well as the spelling used in English ("Johanson").

Now both Fleda and Claes are said to be Germanic in origin, the former feminine ("swift") and the latter masculine ("victorious people"). I can't find either as a "common" (top 200) name for a Swedish girl.

So what do we think of the possibility that her father was Swedish and her mother was German? And her mother named the child?

It would also serve as a possible explanation as to why Raballo chose Claes and not Fleda, since handlers seem to prefer "male" names for their cyborgs.
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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 28 Oct 2008, 20:24

I always voted for Claes being the daughter of immigrants from some Nordic country. Sweden was my first bet, as the name Johansson is pretty common there.

Kisk's theory is okay.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by ElfenMagix on Tue 28 Oct 2008, 22:36

@Kiskaloo wrote:It would also serve as a possible explanation as to why Raballo chose Claes and not Fleda, since handlers seem to prefer "male" names for their cyborgs.
Not really. The theory I pose this; in both the Manga "Vegetable Garden" and the Anime "Promessa", Rabello was not to fond of giving Claes a name. He thought that he would be given a cyborg to train, complete with its own name, history and prebuilt knowledge and that would be the end of the story. So in giving her a name, he felt that he would be attached to her like some pet- something he did not want.

He chose Claes because it was the easiest thing for him to do. He studied up on her history and past life by force (Jean giving him her records). He learned of her name, family life, likes and dislikes, and of course her history. He also learned that she had a middle name. Parents do not call children by their middle name unless they are in big trouble. Thus, this would in his mind keep Claes tied to her former self while giving her a new identity. (Its also the same reason why he gave her her old glasses when he was about to leave.) Like it or not, Rabello fell for Claes as much as she did for him. It would have been interesting to see if had he lived, where that relationship would have went.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 28 Oct 2008, 23:01

Well I do agree with you that I think Raballo felt this was more like just training a new recruit to do a job. Jean did refer to the job as an "instructor" and while that is one aspect of a handler's duty, there are many, many others.

So I agree he didn't seem to be prepared to serve as a mentor/teacher in addition to a pure instructor. "Promessa" does expand the back-story, showing that Raballo saw her just after her cybernetic augmentation, where in "Vegetable Gardens" they just appear as a fratello after Jean makes the recruiting pitch with him.

He also expected the girls to have a bit more...well, common sense. In "Vegetable Gardens", she spent the entire day shooting - in "Promessa", it was the rest of the day, all night, and into the next. Even the rawest of military recruits eventually "gets the hint" and goes and finds the Sergeant... Though it is a testament to HK that you can put a few thousand rounds through it without issue. Wink

On the flip side, Raballo said a good soldier reads. So I think he read her dossier not under duress, but because he's a good soldier. It is clear at first he didn't really care for her and I still believe her initial responses to him (the "let me be your legs" comment) was driven by the conditioning and not her own feelings. They hadn't been together long enough, IMO.

We assume that she became a daughter to him and he a father to her over those times at the lake because we're sentimentalists. I don't expect they were talking about the latest Serie A games, but on the flip side, they need not have been talking about deep issues and bonding as family, either. Yu kept us in the dark and I imagine it was not out of spite or his not giving it any thought other then he liked to draw camping scenes. "Promessa" also left no clues.

Now we know that he was worried about the conditioning. And he came to feel that how the girls were being used was wrong. But his concern seems to have applied to all the girls, not just Claes. I understand he could not just "spirit her away" from the Agency because of the medications needed and the need for access to the specific brand of healthcare they needed. But I also think he had no small amount of control over how she was treated, so it's not like he was powerless to protect her.
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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 06 Nov 2008, 18:41

Triela said in her interview with Fermi (not an exact quote), "It is hard at times to tell the difference between conditioning and love."

OR as Ringo Starr answered in Sgt Pepper Side 1 Song 2:
"Do you believe in love at first sight?
Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time."

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Danjo3 on Fri 07 Nov 2008, 03:34

We never got to see enough of their relationship to draw any definite conclusions as to just how Claes felt about him. It’s just as possible as not that towards the end, she was starting to have romantic feelings for him. People tend to see her as one cold fish (no pun intended) but she seemed pretty gushy the first time they went to the lake.

Here’s what we know about the girls feelings for their handlers so far:

Henrietta – Romantic
Triela – Romantic
Elsa – Romantic
Petra – Romantic
Angie – More then likely father daughter.

In other words, if you’re a cybog of section 2, odds are you’re going to fall for your big bro. Triela herself pretty much confirmed this when she told Fermi that, “Most of the girls here are.”

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 07 Nov 2008, 11:38

@Danjo3 wrote:In other words, if you’re a cyborg of section 2, odds are you’re going to fall for your big bro. Triela herself pretty much confirmed this when she told Fermi that, “Most of the girls here are.”

If you are a Generation 1, the conditioning pretty much insures that. Rico and Elsa - and even Claes, at least in the beginning - should be proof enough of that. Plus the girl's own comments throughout the manga state that is the case.

That being said, I fully agree that some handler's actions end up replacing or transmuting the conditional love for emotional (Henrietta and, now, Triela. Probably Angie, at first, though her emotions may still be original even if Marco no longer loved her back after they wiped her mind testing the drugs).

It seemed pretty clear that with Petrushka and the other Generation 2s were not conditioned to love their handlers, but Alessandro's actions towards Petra both stirred those emotions within her and told her it was okay to express them.
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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

Post by TTIO on Fri 07 Nov 2008, 13:41

@ElfenMagix wrote:Triela said in her interview with Fermi (not an exact quote), "It is hard at times to tell the difference between conditioning and love."

OR as Ringo Starr answered in Sgt Pepper Side 1 Song 2:
"Do you believe in love at first sight?
Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time."

With a little help from my friends. Pretty epic song Very Happy

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Ring'd with the azure world, he stands.

The wrinkled sea beneath him crawls;
He watches from his mountain walls,
And like a thunderbolt he falls.

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Re: Fleda Claes Johanson

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