Petrushka

Page 3 of 11 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 9, 10, 11  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 25 Apr 2009 - 9:37

graywolf202 wrote:Anyway, though I am not very fond of them, I think the addition of Petra + Gen2 girls as somewhat almost necessary step to the development of new storylines. There are limits to how far Yu Aida can take the relationship between preteen girls and male bachelors. Triela was borderline. 16-year-old girl with hotshot intel-guy, though still near the borderline, is a more acceptable. That is to say they can have sex with not many eyebrows raised.

While there is much discussion about Petra being added purely for fan-service and/or sexual needs, Yu has yet to go in either direction with her and Sandro.

On the flip side, having a fratello only about a decade apart in actual age (Sandro should not be much more then 26 based on his back-story) and able to be half that in physical appearance (Petra has passed for 20 and I expect Sandro can pass for 25) no doubt allows for more options when in public. They can be a couple. They can be professional partners.

Henrietta, Elsa, Beatrice and Angelica are (were) forever going to be little girls. You just cannot modify their physical appearance to be anything else. So they can only pass as a little sister, niece or daughter to their handlers.

Claes has passed for fifteen (Lake Maggiore) and I expect Rico could also pass for 15-16 if required. That opens up a bit more options during a mission, but it really doesn't make any difference as a fratello because they still cannot be anything other then family to each other.

Triela has passed for nineteen (Naples) so she can (and has) serve(d) as Hillshire's assistant, but it requires more work then it does with Petra and Sandro and there is still well over a decade between them even then (I expect Hillshire is in his mid-to-late 30's).

So rather then adding them so she can flash her panties or they can screw each other, Yu may very well have added them to provide more depth into the missions the SWA can undertake.


maverick375 wrote:Hmm... Petra's only 5'2" or so?

The manga explicitly states she is 160cm tall, which is 5'3".

Kara is 165cm (5' 5") and is taller then any of the canon cyborgs.


Last edited by Kiskaloo on Sat 25 Apr 2009 - 14:34; edited 1 time in total

Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Forum Posts : 10896

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Robert Frazer on Sat 25 Apr 2009 - 14:26

Alessandro's conversation inducing Elizabeta to jump - that's a very ghoulish idea!

In any case, it's not what happened - the operation to excise her cancer was a failure, resulting instead in a whole amputation, and that's why she committed suicide. Dancing meant everything to her - it was her talent, the gift which had lifted her out of destitution and defined her very self - and without even an outside chance of it being preserved, her will to live was snuffed out. When Duvalier is talking to his assistants, they read the report on Elizabeta and explain:

"They amputated her right leg, and she jumped off the roof of her hospital. She'd never be able to dance on a civilian prosthetic, huh?"

Elizabeta still had both of her legs when she met Alessandro!

You can ask what she was doing up on the roof in the first place - maybe she was considering her options, or maybe she just wanted some fresh air - but those are her thoughts alone and really besides the point. To say that Alessandro was a cause of Elizabeta's death is a stretch for even the most vehement anti-Sandrite. Guh?


Last edited by Robert Frazer on Sat 25 Apr 2009 - 16:48; edited 1 time in total

Robert Frazer

Forum Posts : 1156

Registration date : 2009-02-24

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 25 Apr 2009 - 14:47

The thing with dancers is that even if they lose their ability to dance, they can still be dance instructors, so this suicide beef about her ending it because she can no longer dance or dance at the level she once could is a lot of buffalo. Though in V6/CH31 shows that Elizabetta wnted to be, she was not good enough to be the star she could have been. At this point of the game, she was already going into a depression about not being good enough. But she could have still been something in her dance carreer regardless of the immediate outcome.

Interesting point in V6/CH30/P80 (need to verify with the English Manga against the scanlation I have), Sandro tells Elizabetta "I'm sorry for bringing you out here for no reason". "Out Here" being the roof of the hospital. It is strange as to why Sandro would just walk into a hospital room, look at a patient and ask her to go to the roof with him, and she complies! Yes, he was looking for a potiential cyborg candiate, but was he also looking for some young nookie to get his jollies off too? And in looking at Sandro and Elizabetta on the roof, did Louis take it that Sandro chose her to be that candiate? Elizabetta only seemed to be at best manipulated into limited options inwhich she decided to take her own course of action- suicide. Or or this just a cover up in the SWA stealing a fine and fit specimen that Elizabetta was and converting her into a cyborg?

ElfenMagix

Forum Posts : 5682

Registration date : 2007-09-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by maverick375 on Sat 25 Apr 2009 - 15:55

The thing with dancers is that even if they lose their ability to dance, they can still be dance instructors, so this suicide beef about her ending it because she can no longer dance or dance at the level she once could is a lot of buffalo.

Again, a logical thinking person would consider the possibility to teach what she knows. The (young) human heart does not think logically, and after having what she considers her life ripped away, I doubt Elizabeta was thinking logically, if at all.

Sandro tells Elizabetta "I'm sorry for bringing you out here for no reason". "Out Here" being the roof of the hospital. It is strange as to why Sandro would just walk into a hospital room, look at a patient and ask her to go to the roof with him, and she complies!
My copy of the official English version is at my friend's, but my understanding is that Sandro was up there to have a smoke or get fresh air himself, and then came across her. He observed that she looked Russian(his skill), and chatted her up for a few. She was depressed when he was speaking to her. You can argue whether the scans or the official is more accurate.

The fact that they had a file/evaluation on her so quickly after lends itself to the idea that they may have been looking at her as a possible, even before she jumped. I would not put that past the agency.

The scene with the twins might in fact be a continuity error, or it could even be an error on their part, given limited information. Her jumping with both legs is more plausible simply because of the limited time-frame Sandro's selection process would have.
It would be a pretty feat for someone who had just had a limb amputated to escape any monitoring she might have (electronic and by staff), make their way to the roof, and then jump. Not impossible, but not easy by any means.

It's a moot point regardless. Whether one leg or two, she jumped of her own free will, not because of something Sandro said.

maverick375

Forum Posts : 823

Registration date : 2009-03-20

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 2:38

Nachtsider wrote:
graywolf202 wrote:There are limits to how far Yu Aida can take the relationship between preteen girls and male bachelors.
I don't think there's any harm with staying well within those limits, to be honest.
Agreed. I donít think itís necessary that any of the relationships have to end in sex - the story has done fine without it so far.

Of course, thereís the question of whether or not Sandro has already boned Petra (I personally think he has) but thereís been on confirmation of this.
Kiskaloo wrote:They can be a couple. They can be professional partners.
I think that would be fine in a separate, stand alone story (spin-off), but I just donít think it fits in with the GSG theme. The whole idea behind GSG is the big brother/little sister relationship. Sandro and Petra pretty much defeat that idea.


Or, according to TV Tropes:
TV Tropes wrote:"It also doesn't help that even more Petra-like characters are being introduced in the manga, fundamentally diverting the attention from the much younger first girls, since the plot's poignancy stems largely from the fact the girls' age didn't match their occupation as assassins. It gets even worse when Petra actually appears to start a sexual relationship with her handler, Alessandro, which breaks the "fratello"-dynamics on a basic level."

And yes, I am one of those who believe that Petraís purpose in the story is first and for most, fan service.

Danjo3
The Voice of Reason

Forum Posts : 2609

Registration date : 2007-09-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 11:37

I have a number of issues with that Tropes entry, as it strikes me more as one person's ranting about something they personally feel has happened and is therefore "wrong" rather then a critical evaluation of how the trope applies to Gunslinger Girl. Especially since the other three Series Two girls were purely cameos. Plus when you get right down to it, Triela may look 13, but she's likely chronologically around 19. Angelica was likely around 16 when she died, Rico is 15 and Claes is probably about that age, as well. And all of them have years more experience as assassins and actives then Petra does.

As for the "big brother / little sister" relationship, at the moment that only really applies to Giuse and Henrietta. None of the other fratelli have really shown such a dynamic and Triela and Hillshire are starting to also perform in a "partnership" role like Sandro and Petrushka do (their mission to protect Prosecutor Guellfi at the Western Excelsior Rome hotel).

Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Forum Posts : 10896

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 13:23

I donít know Kisk, from what Iíve read in tv trope concerning GSG, it seems pretty much spot on. Now I know we have a few Petra fans here in the forum, you being one of them, and thatís fine, but her fans are very few and far between. You donít have to dig very deep into the internet to see the vast majority of GSG fans donít just dislike her and her ďbrotherĒ, they hate them.

Tv trope described the fandoms reaction to vol.6 as WTF! Now Iím not sure exactly how long youíve been with us, but I can tell you that when 6 dropped, we all felt the same way. It seemed like some kind of bad joke, seeing how we had waited so long for it (except for the first two chapters, which were both beautiful and poignant). But we are die hard fans, so we just figured we would wait for 7 and everything would be back to normal. It wasnít. 7 tried to cram more Petra down our throats. From what I was reading on the internet at the time, tv tropes is correct when they say the franchise started hemorrhaging fans. OK, allís not lost. Yu is obliviously aware of whatís going on and heíll at least put Petra in the back ground for vol.8.

WRONG! He gives her the whole goddamn volume. Up to that point you could never have shaken my faith in GSG. Iím not a big anime fan, never have been, but I live for GSG. After vol.8 dropped, I seriously considered walking away. Why should I wait for god knows how long for vol.9 to come out, just to get another kick in the balls. The forum was pretty bleak then too - I mean, how long can sit around and bitch about Petra? But needless to say, I and most of my fellow die hards stuck in out, and were pleasantly surprised to see that Yu had somewhat come back to his senses. And it goes with out saying that vol.10 electrified the fandom and breathed new life into a franchise most of feared was on itís way to the scrap heap.

Tv Trope said that thanks to Petra, vol.7 and up, will never see the English light of day. I donít know if thatís true, but looking at the overall situation, it makes perfect sense.

Sorry, I didnít mean to go off on a rant. I known how much I hate reading posts by people who donít know when to shut the fuck up, so Iíll shut up.


Last edited by Danjo3 on Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 16:09; edited 1 time in total

Danjo3
The Voice of Reason

Forum Posts : 2609

Registration date : 2007-09-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 14:11

Well I am guessing her hatred is an American thing, since he continues to write her in for the core audience (Japan) and France also continues to publish issues. So I guess the American fandom has only themselves to blame for not buying Volume 6 and convincing ADV to drop the manga. Now we just have to hope somebody continues to provide the RAWs from Japan (chapter or volume) so we can continue to follow along.

It's no secret Triela is immensely popular here in the States, and she seems to be popular amongst most of our non-Japanese foreign members, as well. So I can understand why everyone went gaga over Volume 10. I mean yes, it was well-written, but I think the fact that it was Triela is what made it so compelling for people. Any other fratello, and people likely would have been far more subdued in their praise, I expect.

Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Forum Posts : 10896

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Danjo3 on Mon 27 Apr 2009 - 15:01

Ouch! Please forgive us for being Americans.

Danjo3
The Voice of Reason

Forum Posts : 2609

Registration date : 2007-09-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 27 Apr 2009 - 15:22


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------





There may be no peace for the wicked, but the righteous can damn well get a piece whenever they feel like it.
avatar
Nachtsider
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD

Male

Forum Posts : 5718

Location : Inside your closet. In your head.

Fan of : Gunslinger Girl, Transformers: Animated

Original Characters : Liesel/Altheus, Meir/Kathryn, Aharon/Nadia, Cosette/Janus

Comments : The Living Legend. Master of Darkness. Trailblazer par excellence. Fear him.

Registration date : 2007-09-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 27 Apr 2009 - 16:41

I'm just saying, if the American fanbase was very vocal in their hatred of Petrushka, I can see ADV, being in a serious cash crunch, looking at what would presume were poor sales of Volume 6 and knowing Volumes 7 and 8 are both effectively "all-Petrushka" volumes deciding that they won't recover their investment in translating and producing them and therefore deciding to drop the title for the time being. And if the retailers were sitting on a good bit of stock of Volume 6, they likely would have been hesitant to order later volumes so ADV might have been willing to take the chance, but pre-orders were too low to justify it.

If they survive and keep the rights, we could see them roll out 7, 8, 9, and 10 in quick succession, using 9 and 10 to drive sales of 7 and 8.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What? I like donuts! - Betty Suarez
If I die before my time, go on Oprah and tell the world 'I liked kittens'. - Veronica Mars
Scissors of victory! - Yui Hirasawa
avatar
Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Male

Forum Posts : 10896

Location : Seattle / Tokyo / Milan

Fan of : Angelica's Smile

Original Characters : Kara Michelle

Comments : The community's international man of mystery.

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 27 Apr 2009 - 18:13

Let ADV use Tommy's Scanlations for v6 & v7, and then continue on with their works for v8-v10... All they have to do id pay for the printing of the volumes in question and give Tommy (and the others) a nice and desecnt check for their work done. I think its only fair.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If Fernando had Super Powers, He would be God!
avatar
ElfenMagix

Male

Forum Posts : 5682

Location : NYC NY, USA

Fan of : Pia, Elsa, Cleas, Triela...

Original Characters : Fernando & Rachel, Felix & Francesca

Comments : He has super powers. He is God.

Registration date : 2007-09-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by maverick375 on Mon 27 Apr 2009 - 20:42

I guess I'm blessed in that I don't give a whit for the fan-service and find the characters themselves fascinating enough to continue buying. Petra is a deep character, the same as the others. So she had a book and a half to herself. Add up the other chapters for each girl and you'll find much the same amount. Triela probably has two. The limited life-span element of the cyborgs means that Yu either has to halt the time-line or add new characters to continue it. Halting the time-line would suck, as the plot would go nowhere.

You don't have to like Petra to like the story dished out in 6-7-8. Try to enjoy the writing and the world instead of just the characters.
avatar
maverick375

Male

Forum Posts : 823

Location : Ohio

Fan of : manga

Original Characters : Jamie

Comments : GUNS!!!! MUWAHAHA

Oh, and swords. Swords are kewl too.

Registration date : 2009-03-20

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 27 Apr 2009 - 21:06

Well said, Mav.
Personally, its not Petra that I dont like, but 'Sandro. But I'm not letting a couple of characters mess up the series for me, I'll just continue hating him in silence

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If Fernando had Super Powers, He would be God!
avatar
ElfenMagix

Male

Forum Posts : 5682

Location : NYC NY, USA

Fan of : Pia, Elsa, Cleas, Triela...

Original Characters : Fernando & Rachel, Felix & Francesca

Comments : He has super powers. He is God.

Registration date : 2007-09-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by MadHatChemist on Tue 28 Apr 2009 - 0:05

The 2nd Gen girls like Petra were probably what the agency was working
towards all along...perhaps ever all the way to young adults and even
older ones. If you think about it that way, a Petra-like character was
inevitable.

Frankly, I hope to see the contrast bewteen the two in future volumes.
avatar
MadHatChemist

Male

Forum Posts : 441

Location : Las Vegas

Fan of : Triela & Claes

Original Characters : None.

Comments : n/a

Registration date : 2009-02-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by boomer_gonz on Tue 28 Apr 2009 - 2:13

Nachtsider wrote:

HOLY JEEBUS!!!!
HOW DID YOU GET THAT PIC OF MY UNCLES?!!!
LOLZ

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Power of Claes Compels You!!!
avatar
boomer_gonz

Male

Forum Posts : 2561

Location : California Republic

Fan of : Crystal Palace!!!

Original Characters : Alpha/Omega Fratello & Dr. Giacomo Gianncomo

Registration date : 2007-09-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Tue 28 Apr 2009 - 22:16

lolz!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If Fernando had Super Powers, He would be God!
avatar
ElfenMagix

Male

Forum Posts : 5682

Location : NYC NY, USA

Fan of : Pia, Elsa, Cleas, Triela...

Original Characters : Fernando & Rachel, Felix & Francesca

Comments : He has super powers. He is God.

Registration date : 2007-09-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Danjo3 on Wed 29 Apr 2009 - 1:41

MadHatChemist wrote:The 2nd Gen girls like Petra were probably what the agency was workingtowards all along...perhaps ever all the way to young adults and even
older ones. If you think about it that way, a Petra-like character was
inevitable.
It is mentioned in vol.6 that they hope to use the technology on adults somedayÖ

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ďI donít hate him specifically, itís the rest of you selfish adults I hold a grudge against.Ē
avatar
Danjo3
The Voice of Reason

Male

Forum Posts : 2609

Fan of : Hillshire/Triela

Original Characters : Biff & Little Britney

Comments : OC hater par excellence.

Registration date : 2007-09-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by boomer_gonz on Wed 29 Apr 2009 - 3:05

If at first you don't succeed...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Power of Claes Compels You!!!
avatar
boomer_gonz

Male

Forum Posts : 2561

Location : California Republic

Fan of : Crystal Palace!!!

Original Characters : Alpha/Omega Fratello & Dr. Giacomo Gianncomo

Registration date : 2007-09-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by West Nile on Thu 30 Apr 2009 - 3:09

then that means, eventually they would have adult cyborgs... then cyborg soldiers... then the girls would be retired... then what?

Star Wars or Ghost in a Shell?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Photobucket
Just cause I'm dead, doesn't mean I can't be your Loli Fantasy!
avatar
West Nile
WestNilepedia

Male

Forum Posts : 1747

Location : Some Where in Nevada... or in the Philippines

Fan of : Triela, Elsa, Enrica & Henrietta

Original Characters : Lance Kane/Raphael, Ella, Mina & Brandon, Sophia & Wesley, Anica & Andrew, Rio de Sica, Marionette

Registration date : 2008-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by boomer_gonz on Thu 30 Apr 2009 - 12:11

Damn, that reminds me. sweat

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Power of Claes Compels You!!!
avatar
boomer_gonz

Male

Forum Posts : 2561

Location : California Republic

Fan of : Crystal Palace!!!

Original Characters : Alpha/Omega Fratello & Dr. Giacomo Gianncomo

Registration date : 2007-09-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by LoC978 on Thu 30 Apr 2009 - 12:30

I'd say I've been waiting forever for that crossover, but I'm not one to talk about fanfic delays. sweat

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Moderatio est figmentum.
avatar
LoC978
Beach Bum Revolutionary

Male

Forum Posts : 2628

Location : Northwestern USA. Usually Portland.

Fan of : At home- Claes. Abroad- Rico.

Registration date : 2007-09-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 30 Apr 2009 - 21:10

boomer_gonz wrote:If at first you don't succeed...
Mega LOLz!!!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If Fernando had Super Powers, He would be God!
avatar
ElfenMagix

Male

Forum Posts : 5682

Location : NYC NY, USA

Fan of : Pia, Elsa, Cleas, Triela...

Original Characters : Fernando & Rachel, Felix & Francesca

Comments : He has super powers. He is God.

Registration date : 2007-09-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by MadHatChemist on Mon 11 May 2009 - 0:59

then that means, eventually they would have adult cyborgs... then
cyborg soldiers... then the girls would be retired... then what?

The don't use little girls any more (or at least as much). That ain't a bad thing, though I hope the agency has at least the bare minimum humanity to take care of them after the fact...which considering the way they've acted so far, ain't going to happen.
avatar
MadHatChemist

Male

Forum Posts : 441

Location : Las Vegas

Fan of : Triela & Claes

Original Characters : None.

Comments : n/a

Registration date : 2009-02-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 11 May 2009 - 10:01

MadHatChemist wrote:
then that means, eventually they would have adult cyborgs...then cyborg soldiers...then the girls would be retired...then what?

The don't use little girls any more (or at least as much). That ain't a bad thing, though I hope the agency has at least the bare minimum humanity to take care of them after the fact...which considering the way they've acted so far, ain't going to happen.

Nope. I believe they'll use them until they can no longer function and then "retire" them quietly. The jibe I get from the manga is the girls didn't see Angelica much, if at all, after the truck bombing of the Interior Ministry even though she was mentally and emotionally stable for at least a bit afterward.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What? I like donuts! - Betty Suarez
If I die before my time, go on Oprah and tell the world 'I liked kittens'. - Veronica Mars
Scissors of victory! - Yui Hirasawa
avatar
Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Male

Forum Posts : 10896

Location : Seattle / Tokyo / Milan

Fan of : Angelica's Smile

Original Characters : Kara Michelle

Comments : The community's international man of mystery.

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by maverick375 on Mon 11 May 2009 - 10:56

The jibe I get from the manga is the girls didn't see Angelica much, if at all, after the truck bombing

Agree. They're going to use them until they are no longer usable, and then they'll let them die peacefully in their handlers' care. regardless of whether the agency feels they owe it, the handlers will do it themselves.

The only way I see the agency 'retiring' them with a 9mm pink slip is if they become dangerously unstable.

Somewhere, I think in vol3, they mention the fact that they are planning for full adult cyborgs. The issue they are dealing with is not only the matter of technology, but also the secrecy, the requirement, and the cost.
-The tech is coming along well enough, as they make changes between cyborgs as much as they do between the generations.
-The secrecy is becoming increasingly harder to maintain, as shown with Franca's knowledge of the girls. As more info gets out through the various ways, the agency stands more of a chance of being flat-out revealed, something they might not survive once it goes public. This leads into the third point...
-The requirement is becoming a more important point. My understanding is that there are a few people looking to make money off of the third gens and are using the north/south divide as a means to put the cost of development on the country.
As long as the fighting continues, their funding is reasonably secure, but they are quickly becoming a victim of their own success. When the RF gives up, the agency will have to expand the fight somehow. Should this happen, I see the agency splitting in half and all hell breaking loose internally.
-The cost is the final key. They are losing the battle of justification for funds. once the second gens are in full force, there will be a serious question as to why bothering with the thirds, and whether the war will last long enough to utilize them at all. If they are running out of money, then they are going to have to dump it, or do as I said above and force the war to continue.
avatar
maverick375

Male

Forum Posts : 823

Location : Ohio

Fan of : manga

Original Characters : Jamie

Comments : GUNS!!!! MUWAHAHA

Oh, and swords. Swords are kewl too.

Registration date : 2009-03-20

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 11 May 2009 - 11:09

I don't see the Agency allowing their cyborgs to 'die peacefully in their handlers' care'. The way I envision it, a cyborg would just have their drug syringe filled with a huge dose of potassium chloride instead of conditioning dope once the Agency feels they've outlived their usefulness. Better just get rid of them then waste more money and resources on terminal care.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------





There may be no peace for the wicked, but the righteous can damn well get a piece whenever they feel like it.
avatar
Nachtsider
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD

Male

Forum Posts : 5718

Location : Inside your closet. In your head.

Fan of : Gunslinger Girl, Transformers: Animated

Original Characters : Liesel/Altheus, Meir/Kathryn, Aharon/Nadia, Cosette/Janus

Comments : The Living Legend. Master of Darkness. Trailblazer par excellence. Fear him.

Registration date : 2007-09-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 11 May 2009 - 11:46

Since the girls have artificial hearts, I expect potassium chloride would have no effect on them.

If we take the manga and anime literally and assume the only really biological part of them is their brain, then even brain death won't kill them. So what likely happened with Angelica is she just slipped into a persistent vegetative state and they terminated her artificial life-sustaining functions.

Since they replaced all her damaged systems, I would not be surprised if her crypt is in fact empty (or at best, contains her head which is even more creepy then leaving it empty, IMO). There would be no reason to bury her body (and frankly it could be dangerous since it leaves physical evidence of the program) and why replace all those systems just to inter them? Better to remove them and recycle them.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What? I like donuts! - Betty Suarez
If I die before my time, go on Oprah and tell the world 'I liked kittens'. - Veronica Mars
Scissors of victory! - Yui Hirasawa
avatar
Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Male

Forum Posts : 10896

Location : Seattle / Tokyo / Milan

Fan of : Angelica's Smile

Original Characters : Kara Michelle

Comments : The community's international man of mystery.

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Robert Frazer on Mon 11 May 2009 - 12:56

I'm nort sure that the cyborgs' organs are all artificial in the sense that they're metal and plastic - after all, they bleed and don't leak oil when they're shot, don't set off every metal detector in the airport terminal, and eat food rather than just plug themselves into a wall socket! I get the impression that their inner organs are artificial in that they're cultivated (with plenty of genetic tweaking to give them their enhancements - more thickly-clustered alveoli for increased breathing efficiency, for instance) rather than built - swappable, but still wet and fleshy.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


PASSION LIVES HERE
************
Prose Stories
avatar
Robert Frazer

Male

Forum Posts : 1156

Location : The Green and Pleasant Land

Registration date : 2009-02-24

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 11 May 2009 - 13:07

It's possible. Yu has dropped a few too many hints, in my opinion, but to his credit he hasn't tried to rationalize and explain it all.

At this point, in my fiction I don't address it. The girls just work well enough to get the job done and if the story needs them to be a certain way, then they are.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What? I like donuts! - Betty Suarez
If I die before my time, go on Oprah and tell the world 'I liked kittens'. - Veronica Mars
Scissors of victory! - Yui Hirasawa
avatar
Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Male

Forum Posts : 10896

Location : Seattle / Tokyo / Milan

Fan of : Angelica's Smile

Original Characters : Kara Michelle

Comments : The community's international man of mystery.

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Guest on Mon 11 May 2009 - 20:47

Thanatos wrote:
Petra seems to be happy all the time for no reason as well. This point to me that her conditioning must be as high as Rico's.

Seriously?

Why?

somewhere we learnt that her personality was not because of conditioning. rather, it's the personality she wants to have before becoming a cyborg.

also, i wouldn't say that her suicidal attempt marks her a weakling. It's always easier saying that you could have done this or that. Besides all the gen 1 girls probably would have done the same should they have a choice. Most of them waking up from their drama a cyborg under condition -- which probably means some emotion control as well.

From Rico all the way up to Petrushka, the girls are becoming more independent and more engaged in the society.

Rico's more or less a robert;

Angelica and Henrietta are one level up -- they can make decisions, but all their lives are about their handler, Claes appears to have a free will (she seems to play the game pretty well, doing whatever required so that she can have her normal life and avoid fighting when possible). However her life is all about the little habits Raballo left her with and the promise with him;

the next level up is Triela, who can carry out missions independently and cares for other girls (rather than evolve her life purely around her handler);

Petrushka is purely another cup of tea. First of all, she seems the only one trying to steer her life before become a cyborg (even though that's taking her own life). Then her connection with the outside world is also most extensive (with Alessandro doing the people watching thing with her), she also appear to be the only one doubting the purpose of the welfare institution (her conversation with inspector Guellfi whilst being her guard) and she had her own initiatives sometimes (eg. when they were raiding the far, she asked whether they should interfere with the massacre).

All in all, I can see why the author likes her best. She's the only one somehow with an independent opinion on many things (Triela sort of developed that but only in regards to her relationship with Hilshire). Sometimes these views are in conflict with Alessandro's (and whenever that happens, her condition cause her to throw up. Gen 1 girl probably doesn't have this conditioning: when they become rebellious, their memories are wiped. Memory wiping is considered not cost effective so physical weakening induced by condition is employed to stop such behaviour. in the worst case, the handler can over power a weakened cyborg).

finally, it's worth noting that Alessandro is the only handler considering his cyborg a partner (a person in equal status) whilst others more or less treat theirs as their minor. This probably explains why Petrushka is more independent.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 11 May 2009 - 20:50

hoh wrote:also, i wouldn't say that her suicidal attempt marks her a weakling. It's always easier saying that you could have done this or that. Besides all the gen 1 girls probably would have done the same should they have a choice.

Per the manga, Henrietta wanted to kill herself after the attack on her family.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What? I like donuts! - Betty Suarez
If I die before my time, go on Oprah and tell the world 'I liked kittens'. - Veronica Mars
Scissors of victory! - Yui Hirasawa
avatar
Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Male

Forum Posts : 10896

Location : Seattle / Tokyo / Milan

Fan of : Angelica's Smile

Original Characters : Kara Michelle

Comments : The community's international man of mystery.

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 11 May 2009 - 21:37

Kiskaloo wrote:
hoh wrote:also, i wouldn't say that her suicidal attempt marks her a weakling. It's always easier saying that you could have done this or that. Besides all the gen 1 girls probably would have done the same should they have a choice.

Per the manga, Henrietta wanted to kill herself after the attack on her family.
Its also stated in the first episode by the doctor caring for her.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If Fernando had Super Powers, He would be God!
avatar
ElfenMagix

Male

Forum Posts : 5682

Location : NYC NY, USA

Fan of : Pia, Elsa, Cleas, Triela...

Original Characters : Fernando & Rachel, Felix & Francesca

Comments : He has super powers. He is God.

Registration date : 2007-09-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Guest on Tue 12 May 2009 - 16:29

ElfenMagix wrote:
Anyone noticed the height and build difference between Petra and Eliza?
Who says cyborgs dont grow? It depends oh how they were built! (j/k) Evil

Sandro asked Petra to be over 160 -- probably after reading the book about ballet and finding out what's the optimal height for a dancer.

this means Sandro is not quite as neglect as people think -- he's playing dumb whilst quite considerable behind the scene.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 12 May 2009 - 16:48

hoh wrote:
ElfenMagix wrote:Anyone noticed the height and build difference between Petra and Eliza? Who says cyborgs dont grow? It depends oh how they were built! (j/k) Evil

Sandro asked Petra to be over 160 -- probably after reading the book about ballet and finding out what's the optimal height for a dancer.

Petra is exactly 160cm tall. Her height is given in the manga by the medical staff. That being said, she is taller then Elizabetta was, so it stands to reason Sandro asked for this specific height.

All the other character's heights are based on a chart Yu Aida published sometime back.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What? I like donuts! - Betty Suarez
If I die before my time, go on Oprah and tell the world 'I liked kittens'. - Veronica Mars
Scissors of victory! - Yui Hirasawa
avatar
Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Male

Forum Posts : 10896

Location : Seattle / Tokyo / Milan

Fan of : Angelica's Smile

Original Characters : Kara Michelle

Comments : The community's international man of mystery.

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Guest on Tue 12 May 2009 - 17:34

Kiskaloo wrote:
hoh wrote:
ElfenMagix wrote:Anyone noticed the height and build difference between Petra and Eliza? Who says cyborgs dont grow? It depends oh how they were built! (j/k) Evil

Sandro asked Petra to be over 160 -- probably after reading the book about ballet and finding out what's the optimal height for a dancer.

Petra is exactly 160cm tall(Ch31/pag25). Her height is given in the manga by the medical staff. That being said, she is taller then Elizabetta was, so it stands to reason Sandro asked for this specific height.

All the other character's heights are based on a chart Yu Aida published sometime back.

I think it is quite specifically stated that the height is by Sandro's requirement. Given Eliza's trouble about her height in Russia, I kind help but think that this is one kindness Sandro did for Petra.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Awinnell on Tue 12 May 2009 - 17:47

from the Royal ballet

Minimum height requirements for ballet dancers in Europe are generally 5[feet]4[inches] for women, 5[feet]10[inches] or so for men. That can be a problem, since the Royal Ballet School does not restrict its enrollment according to height; its undersized graduates may have to convince companies to make exceptions because of their talent.


so Petras still a bit short for a ballerina !

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


We are living in the smelly cloud of gods fart,one day the universe will end in a great cloud of airfreshener
avatar
Awinnell
Stiff Upper Lip

Male

Forum Posts : 2131

Location : Hereford,England

Fan of : Triela,asuka

Original Characters : not yet

Comments : Loves to quote Wikipedia. Loves to use exclamation marks even more.

wish i knew who put that in there, it wasn't me !!!!!!!!!!!!


Registration date : 2008-05-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by MikhailN on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 5:22

Awinnell wrote:from the Royal ballet

Minimum height requirements for ballet dancers in Europe are generally 5[feet]4[inches] for women, 5[feet]10[inches] or so for men. That can be a problem, since the Royal Ballet School does not restrict its enrollment according to height; its undersized graduates may have to convince companies to make exceptions because of their talent.


so Petras still a bit short for a ballerina !

Well, thinking pragmatically, she doesn't need to be that tall. She's a GSG / spook / Sandro's new toy / SWA's guinea pig / former ballerina / anything else that you can think of, not a dancer at the Royal Ballet School.

Still, I think there would have been a touch of irony if she really did get the correct height. Elizabeta had finally got the height she wanted and looks to die (excuse the pun) for to boot, but she had to pay an arm and a leg (excuse the pun) for it and the best part is that she's not dancing anymore. Irony? Or tough life?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
MikhailN

Male

Forum Posts : 583

Location : SWA, teaching the little girls to kick rear

Fan of : Triela

Registration date : 2009-06-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by maverick375 on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 8:25

After realizing that Petra was soooo short, I had to go back and modify my fict. I was operating under the belief that Petra was pretty tall, and had I done the conversion (damn metric system) I would have realized how small she is. Jamie is five-nine or five-ten, only a few inches shorter than Michael, and thus taller than the cannon borgs, and probably taller than most of the agency personel. Razz Clean American living, I guess.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Glocks are not the shit. Glocks can fail the same as any other gun. I've seen it personally, and have even heard first-hand accounts of something as basic as a slide-retaining pin snapping, the slide flying off. Get over the obsession and buy what fits your hand, your wallet, and ability.
avatar
maverick375

Male

Forum Posts : 823

Location : Ohio

Fan of : manga

Original Characters : Jamie

Comments : GUNS!!!! MUWAHAHA

Oh, and swords. Swords are kewl too.

Registration date : 2009-03-20

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by West Nile on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 8:32

MikhailN wrote:
Awinnell wrote:from the Royal ballet

Minimum height requirements for ballet dancers in Europe are generally 5[feet]4[inches] for women, 5[feet]10[inches] or so for men. That can be a problem, since the Royal Ballet School does not restrict its enrollment according to height; its undersized graduates may have to convince companies to make exceptions because of their talent.


so Petras still a bit short for a ballerina !

Well, thinking pragmatically, she doesn't need to be that tall. She's a GSG / spook / Sandro's new toy / SWA's guinea pig / former ballerina / anything else that you can think of, not a dancer at the Royal Ballet School.

Still, I think there would have been a touch of irony if she really did get the correct height. Elizabeta had finally got the height she wanted and looks to die (excuse the pun) for to boot, but she had to pay an arm and a leg (excuse the pun) for it and the best part is that she's not dancing anymore. Irony? Or tough life?

i use to wonder if her old BF can jogg her old memories, see what happense if they do

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Photobucket
Just cause I'm dead, doesn't mean I can't be your Loli Fantasy!
avatar
West Nile
WestNilepedia

Male

Forum Posts : 1747

Location : Some Where in Nevada... or in the Philippines

Fan of : Triela, Elsa, Enrica & Henrietta

Original Characters : Lance Kane/Raphael, Ella, Mina & Brandon, Sophia & Wesley, Anica & Andrew, Rio de Sica, Marionette

Registration date : 2008-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by MikhailN on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 8:34

West Nile wrote:i use to wonder if her old BF can jogg her old memories, see what happense if they do

If he recognizes her in the first place.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
MikhailN

Male

Forum Posts : 583

Location : SWA, teaching the little girls to kick rear

Fan of : Triela

Registration date : 2009-06-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by West Nile on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 8:38

if skirts and tutoos (how u spell that) jogg her memory what more that guy?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Photobucket
Just cause I'm dead, doesn't mean I can't be your Loli Fantasy!
avatar
West Nile
WestNilepedia

Male

Forum Posts : 1747

Location : Some Where in Nevada... or in the Philippines

Fan of : Triela, Elsa, Enrica & Henrietta

Original Characters : Lance Kane/Raphael, Ella, Mina & Brandon, Sophia & Wesley, Anica & Andrew, Rio de Sica, Marionette

Registration date : 2008-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by MikhailN on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 8:41

West Nile wrote:if skirts and tutoos (how u spell that) jogg her memory what more that guy?

Oh you mean if she sees him. I thought you meant that he'll come looking for her. Of course that will jog her memory, but has she ever seen a tutu (that's how you spell that) in Italy?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
MikhailN

Male

Forum Posts : 583

Location : SWA, teaching the little girls to kick rear

Fan of : Triela

Registration date : 2009-06-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by West Nile on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 8:44

in them magazines, they guy won't recognize her, ofcourse not, she will

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Photobucket
Just cause I'm dead, doesn't mean I can't be your Loli Fantasy!
avatar
West Nile
WestNilepedia

Male

Forum Posts : 1747

Location : Some Where in Nevada... or in the Philippines

Fan of : Triela, Elsa, Enrica & Henrietta

Original Characters : Lance Kane/Raphael, Ella, Mina & Brandon, Sophia & Wesley, Anica & Andrew, Rio de Sica, Marionette

Registration date : 2008-01-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 14 Jul 2009 - 15:34

Ok, since weíve started to learn a good bit more about the girls and their handlers in recent chapters and episodes, I thought it might not be a bad time to revise their sections in the wiki. I also took the liberty of trimming them a bit, since in many cases they were more plot summaries than character summaries. Let me know what you think, please.




Born Elizabeta Baranovskaya (エリザヴェート・バラノフスカヤ Erizavuto Baranofusukaya?). she was a ballerina student at the Moscow State Academy. Irradiated as a child during the Chernobyl disaster, she developed a tumor in her leg at the age of sixteen. Sent to Italy for treatment, her leg could not be saved. Distraught at her dreams of becoming a ballerina ending, she attempted suicide by jumping off the roof. Interviewed prior to this by Alessandro Ricci, after her suicide she was transferred to the SWA and made into a cyborg. Renamed Petrushka by Alessandro (for the Russian puppet Petrushka), most of her original features were replaced, so she is not a natural redhead nor are her eyes naturally green. As Angelica was the prototype for the first-generation cyborgs, so Petrushka became the prototype for the second-generation cyborgs. As a second-generation cyborg, Petrushka had everything she needed to know about her life at the SWA pre-programmed into her brain; she knew where she was, that she would be trained for combat, and that she "must follow Alessandro's and the Agency's orders without hesitation". Petrushka's preferred weapons are the Spectre M4 SMG and Taurus PT92 pistol.


Last edited by Kiskaloo on Wed 15 Jul 2009 - 9:59; edited 2 times in total

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What? I like donuts! - Betty Suarez
If I die before my time, go on Oprah and tell the world 'I liked kittens'. - Veronica Mars
Scissors of victory! - Yui Hirasawa
avatar
Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Male

Forum Posts : 10896

Location : Seattle / Tokyo / Milan

Fan of : Angelica's Smile

Original Characters : Kara Michelle

Comments : The community's international man of mystery.

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Tue 14 Jul 2009 - 18:24

Nit picking- again... that 'and' in the first sentence should be a 'was'

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If Fernando had Super Powers, He would be God!
avatar
ElfenMagix

Male

Forum Posts : 5682

Location : NYC NY, USA

Fan of : Pia, Elsa, Cleas, Triela...

Original Characters : Fernando & Rachel, Felix & Francesca

Comments : He has super powers. He is God.

Registration date : 2007-09-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by emperor on Wed 15 Jul 2009 - 3:42

Born Elizabeta Baranovskaya (エリザヴェート・バラノフスカヤ Erizavuto Baranofusukaya?). she was a ballerina student at the Moscow State Academy. Irradiated as a child during the Chernobyl disaster, she developed a tumor in her leg at the age of sixteen. Sent to Italy for treatment, her leg could not be saved. Distraught at her dreams of becoming a ballerina ending, she attempted suicide by jumping off the roof. Interviewed prior to this by Alessandro Ricci, after her suicide she was transferred to the SWA and made into a cyborg. Renamed Petrushka by Alessandro (for the Russian puppet Petrushka), most of her original features were replaced, so she is not a natural redhead nor are her eyes naturally green. As Angelica was the prototype for the first-generation cyborgs, so Petrushka became the prototype for the second-generation cyborgs. As a second-generation cyborg, Petrushka had everything she needed to know about her life at the SWA pre-programmed into her brain; she knew where she was, that she would be trained for combat, and that she "must follow Alessandro's and the Agency's orders without hesitation", though there was an error during her conditioning that wiped all of her previous memories. Petrushka's preferred weapons are the Spectre M4 SMG and Taurus PT92 pistol.

Should we add the weak spot of her body too?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://on.fb.me/9tuZOK Facebook Page for Cyborg Central : Gunslinger Girl Forum cheers
avatar
emperor

Male

Forum Posts : 1637

Location : Bangkok,Thailand

Fan of : Henrietta,Black Lagoon,Jormungund

Original Characters : Rosetta,Devil baby

Comments : Be creative,baby!!

Registration date : 2007-09-09
Your character
OC genger:

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by MikhailN on Wed 15 Jul 2009 - 4:48

emperor wrote:
Born Elizabeta Baranovskaya (エリザヴェート・バラノフスカヤ Erizavuto Baranofusukaya?). she was a ballerina student at the Moscow State Academy. Irradiated as a child during the Chernobyl disaster, she developed a tumor in her leg at the age of sixteen. Sent to Italy for treatment, her leg could not be saved. Distraught at her dreams of becoming a ballerina ending, she attempted suicide by jumping off the roof. Interviewed prior to this by Alessandro Ricci, after her suicide she was transferred to the SWA and made into a cyborg. Renamed Petrushka by Alessandro (for the Russian puppet Petrushka), most of her original features were replaced, so she is not a natural redhead nor are her eyes naturally green. As Angelica was the prototype for the first-generation cyborgs, so Petrushka became the prototype for the second-generation cyborgs. As a second-generation cyborg, Petrushka had everything she needed to know about her life at the SWA pre-programmed into her brain; she knew where she was, that she would be trained for combat, and that she "must follow Alessandro's and the Agency's orders without hesitation", though there was an error during her conditioning that wiped all of her previous memories. Petrushka's preferred weapons are the Spectre M4 SMG and Taurus PT92 pistol.

Should we add the weak spot of her body too?

There is? Besides her eyes I mean

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


avatar
MikhailN

Male

Forum Posts : 583

Location : SWA, teaching the little girls to kick rear

Fan of : Triela

Registration date : 2009-06-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Robert Frazer on Wed 15 Jul 2009 - 5:08

I would delete this:

...though there was an error during her conditioning that wiped all of her previous memories...

Having memory of her pre-Agency life erased wasn't an error - it's standard procedure. There's nothing to suggest that anything went wrong with her creation in her introductory chapters.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


PASSION LIVES HERE
************
Prose Stories
avatar
Robert Frazer

Male

Forum Posts : 1156

Location : The Green and Pleasant Land

Registration date : 2009-02-24

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 15 Jul 2009 - 5:27

MikhailN wrote:There is? Besides her eyes I mean
I certainly recall there were some extra-optical weak spots on Petra, resulting from her lighter armor.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------





There may be no peace for the wicked, but the righteous can damn well get a piece whenever they feel like it.
avatar
Nachtsider
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD

Male

Forum Posts : 5718

Location : Inside your closet. In your head.

Fan of : Gunslinger Girl, Transformers: Animated

Original Characters : Liesel/Altheus, Meir/Kathryn, Aharon/Nadia, Cosette/Janus

Comments : The Living Legend. Master of Darkness. Trailblazer par excellence. Fear him.

Registration date : 2007-09-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 15 Jul 2009 - 9:24

Dr. Guiliani stated to one of the agency directors (medical director?) that the "this unit's design is weaker in strength then the first generation.", "upper torso was not touched." and "she would live a long life if she is not shot." This would mean to me that Petrushka a)limited, minimal or no internal ballistic protection b) much of her internal structures were left untouched and not cybernetic augmented and/or c)she has some type 1 features that are weaker in comparison to the first gen units.

Though these are fan based scanlations, I would take them as truth because the fans (Tommy and company) at the time did their best to get something out that was as close to the original Japanese as possible. I dont think ADV would do better if and when they get their lazy asses to publishing the actual translated books.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If Fernando had Super Powers, He would be God!
avatar
ElfenMagix

Male

Forum Posts : 5682

Location : NYC NY, USA

Fan of : Pia, Elsa, Cleas, Triela...

Original Characters : Fernando & Rachel, Felix & Francesca

Comments : He has super powers. He is God.

Registration date : 2007-09-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 15 Jul 2009 - 9:59

Robert Frazer wrote:I would delete this:

...though there was an error during her conditioning that wiped all of her previous memories...

Having memory of her pre-Agency life erased wasn't an error - it's standard procedure. There's nothing to suggest that anything went wrong with her creation in her introductory chapters.

And yet the gist I received from reading that chapter was that it was a mistake. Still, I'll delete it just to prevent ambiguity.


I don't think we should comment on Petra's (or the girl's, in general) design since Aida hasn't really shown us just how she differs from the other girls. Since Beatrice's smelling ability appears to be unique and is an important part of her character in many of the stories she's been in, I think that is appropriate.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What? I like donuts! - Betty Suarez
If I die before my time, go on Oprah and tell the world 'I liked kittens'. - Veronica Mars
Scissors of victory! - Yui Hirasawa
avatar
Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Male

Forum Posts : 10896

Location : Seattle / Tokyo / Milan

Fan of : Angelica's Smile

Original Characters : Kara Michelle

Comments : The community's international man of mystery.

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 15 Jul 2009 - 10:06

Kiskaloo wrote:
Robert Frazer wrote:I would delete this:

...though there was an error during her conditioning that wiped all of her previous memories...

Having memory of her pre-Agency life erased wasn't an error - it's standard procedure. There's nothing to suggest that anything went wrong with her creation in her introductory chapters.

And yet the gist I received from reading that chapter was that it was a mistake. Still, I'll delete it just to prevent ambiguity.
As I see it...
Dr. Duvilare (sp?) noted that her past has to be erased, thus the new face and body reconstruction of Petra into something Elisabetta was not- Taller, red head, green eyes, etc. This would require a past-memories erasure proceedure to make her forget who she was so she would not return to that life. But she was supposed to be programmed with built in training, and this is where the fault may be in, and 'Sandro has to train her like any other handler has to train their cyborg.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


If Fernando had Super Powers, He would be God!
avatar
ElfenMagix

Male

Forum Posts : 5682

Location : NYC NY, USA

Fan of : Pia, Elsa, Cleas, Triela...

Original Characters : Fernando & Rachel, Felix & Francesca

Comments : He has super powers. He is God.

Registration date : 2007-09-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Guest on Wed 19 Aug 2009 - 19:00

Not to be an arsehole, but I'm reading the manga and I find it interesting, so I set off for a forum to discuss it and found this. I've seen the anime, I'm at the Pinochio second part. I haven't even met Pretushka yet, so I'm unbiased as they come. I may even detest her later.

LoC978 wrote:...you really can't say the same about any of the Gen1 girls. They've all got believable human tragedy to 'em. You can't help but pity them, while you know none of them would want your pity.

That they all forgot, except Rico. They do not remember.

West Nile wrote:
Kiskaloo wrote:It is somewhat interesting that -Il Teatrino- chose to ignore Petrushka (at least through episode 13 - I have not seen the two OVAs) even though it came out well after her character was introduced in the manga.

in the same episode Patrisha and d pandania guy look for the SWA, they bump into a girl with short blond hair, can't speak italian, and limps away from them later on. that's Petra.

as for her lifestyle. we have mountain climbers who continue to live on now that they have no legs, piano players that blew their fingers but continue to persevier and all the other people who continue to stand on their own even with Aids or cancer. Petra just dosn't hold a candle up to the other girls. come to think of it how about the other bitches...

Bianchi- *looking at girl lying on surgery table* so why did she put a shot gun in her mouth after taking a whole bottle of sleeping pills?
Lorenzo- her boyfriend broke up with her...

Henrietta said she wanted to die too (or was it Angelica?), before she was brainwashed. Henrietta also displayed one hell of a suicicde tendency in one of the first chapters, when she explained Elsa's death.

Petrushka tried to suicide, sure. That's condemnable, but where do we draw the line? None of the girls remember what happened to them in the past (except Rico, perhaps why she's not forgetting anything like the others are), so why would we discard what they'd want to do if they were left with the memories. I jsut don't see how are any of the others are any braver then Petrushka, when they don't remember and someone interveined before they could even try to think about suiciding.

Sure rape =/= assault =/= losing everything you ever worked for, but who are we to decide which one is more important? I know people who'd prefer to lose a leg, an arm, be tortured, then to lose their dreams. I don't know. I'm not going to hold grudges against Petrushka in that account when I read about her. If she's really disgusting, then it will be for other reasons.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 19 Aug 2009 - 19:18

First off, welcome to the forum! :dance:


0r4ng3 wrote:Henrietta said she wanted to die too...

Yes, the doctor at the hospital where Jose found her noted she "wished to die".

Henrietta also displayed one hell of a suicide tendency in one of the first chapters, when she explained Elsa's death.

And she was also willing to commit murder, as well, just as Elsa did prior to taking her own life.

In my view, Henrietta and Elsa, being so young (I believe they were around 10 when converted) were unable to properly deal with the love for their handlers imposed upon them and it became an obsession. Elsa finally snapped, unable to take not being loved back by Lauro. Because she believes that Jose loves her, Henrietta remains stable, but it's clear she too feels infatuation with Jose and should he act in a way where Henrietta believes he no longer loves her...

*BANG!*

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What? I like donuts! - Betty Suarez
If I die before my time, go on Oprah and tell the world 'I liked kittens'. - Veronica Mars
Scissors of victory! - Yui Hirasawa
avatar
Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Male

Forum Posts : 10896

Location : Seattle / Tokyo / Milan

Fan of : Angelica's Smile

Original Characters : Kara Michelle

Comments : The community's international man of mystery.

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Totoum on Wed 19 Aug 2009 - 19:45

0r4ng3 wrote:I haven't even met Pretushka yet, so I'm unbiased as they come. I may even detest her later.

Now that's interesting,i'd love it if you could update us ounce you've read further on.

oh and welcome cheers

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"The day the child realizes that all adults are imperfect he becomes an adolescent; the day he forgives them, he becomes an adult; the day he forgives himself, he becomes wise."Alden Nowlan
"Happy is the one who's able to laugh at himself:he's sure to be entertained for a long time"

avatar
Totoum

Male

Forum Posts : 480

Location : paris

Fan of : claes

Registration date : 2007-11-20

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 19 Aug 2009 - 22:31

0r4ng3 wrote:Henrietta also displayed one hell of a suicicde tendency in one of the first chapters, when she explained Elsa's death.
Explaining what happened to Elsa =/= wanting to commit suicide

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------





There may be no peace for the wicked, but the righteous can damn well get a piece whenever they feel like it.
avatar
Nachtsider
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD

Male

Forum Posts : 5718

Location : Inside your closet. In your head.

Fan of : Gunslinger Girl, Transformers: Animated

Original Characters : Liesel/Altheus, Meir/Kathryn, Aharon/Nadia, Cosette/Janus

Comments : The Living Legend. Master of Darkness. Trailblazer par excellence. Fear him.

Registration date : 2007-09-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 19 Aug 2009 - 22:35

Nachtsider wrote:
0r4ng3 wrote:Henrietta also displayed one hell of a suicicde tendency in one of the first chapters, when she explained Elsa's death.
Explaining what happened to Elsa =/= wanting to commit suicide

But claiming she would do the same thing in the same situation does equal her willing to take her own life if she comes to believe Jose no longer loves her (after taking his life first, of course).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What? I like donuts! - Betty Suarez
If I die before my time, go on Oprah and tell the world 'I liked kittens'. - Veronica Mars
Scissors of victory! - Yui Hirasawa
avatar
Kiskaloo
A Cat of Many Talents

Male

Forum Posts : 10896

Location : Seattle / Tokyo / Milan

Fan of : Angelica's Smile

Original Characters : Kara Michelle

Comments : The community's international man of mystery.

Registration date : 2008-09-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 19 Aug 2009 - 22:44

Yeah, but a willingness to take your own life under the 'right' circumstances is not equal to being suicidal. Being suicidal means that your mind is constantly pervaded by thoughts of wanting to end your life, no matter what the circumstances are.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------





There may be no peace for the wicked, but the righteous can damn well get a piece whenever they feel like it.
avatar
Nachtsider
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD
KNIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD

Male

Forum Posts : 5718

Location : Inside your closet. In your head.

Fan of : Gunslinger Girl, Transformers: Animated

Original Characters : Liesel/Altheus, Meir/Kathryn, Aharon/Nadia, Cosette/Janus

Comments : The Living Legend. Master of Darkness. Trailblazer par excellence. Fear him.

Registration date : 2007-09-09

Back to top Go down

Re: Petrushka

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 11 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 9, 10, 11  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum