Petrushka

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 17 Sep 2008 - 21:08

darksnowwhite wrote:You know, I didn't have much of an issue with Petra until she started messing with Claes, and being all "best friends" and buddy-buddy with her, poking and prodding about her past. It really irritated me...

You have to admit, she did look good after Petra's make-over in Chapter 33. dancin\\'

The whole... "throwing up" thing bugs me too. Triela often speaks her mind to Hillshire, without feeling the need to throw up afterwards, and the basic 2nd Gen conditioning was supposed to be less than the 1st Gen. I also get annoyed, because as an older girl, she should be more capable of at least accepting the possibility that her feelings towards Sandro are no more than the conditioning.

I certainly hope that is not a side effect of the Generation 2 series conditioning since my OC is one, as well. And she loves to cook. I mean this is Rome, but I'd rather not have Kara hang out in a vomitorium. Guh?


@Nachtsider wrote:Petra is naive, period.


You may very well be on to something with that...

However, looking at the end of, say, Chapter 38, it's not like Alessandro isn't exactly drawing firm boundaries in regards to their relationship... Smile

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 17 Sep 2008 - 21:12

@Kiskaloo wrote:However, looking at the end of, say, Chapter 38, it's not like Alessandro isn't exactly drawing firm boundaries in regards to their relationship... Smile
He's taking advantage of her naivete.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Ggultra2764 on Wed 17 Sep 2008 - 21:19

@Nachtsider wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:However, looking at the end of, say, Chapter 38, it's not like Alessandro isn't exactly drawing firm boundaries in regards to their relationship... Smile
He's taking advantage of her naivete.

And with his playboy reputation, it's possible Sandro could also seek Petra as a sexual partner which I'm sure Section 2 could have issues with. They were dumbstruck enough with how he chose to dress up Petra. Laughing

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Triela on Wed 17 Sep 2008 - 23:13

@Nachtsider wrote:
@West Nile wrote:she's your average teenage girl crushing on the latest movie star. ala Triela (our Triela) and Orlando Bloom
ZING!

Jeez you guys know me well! ... then again... you compared Petrushka to me. I'm insulted! >_< ^o^

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Re: Petrushka

Post by West Nile on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 3:13

@Triela wrote:
@Nachtsider wrote:
@West Nile wrote:she's your average teenage girl crushing on the latest movie star. ala Triela (our Triela) and Orlando Bloom
ZING!

Jeez you guys know me well! ... then again... you compared Petrushka to me. I'm insulted! >_< ^o^

the moment i saw your name on the post i knew i had to prepare an apology

im sorry i just can't find another better example Triela

Gomen

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Triela on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 7:17

@West Nile wrote:
@Triela wrote:
@Nachtsider wrote:
@West Nile wrote:she's your average teenage girl crushing on the latest movie star. ala Triela (our Triela) and Orlando Bloom
ZING!

Jeez you guys know me well! ... then again... you compared Petrushka to me. I'm insulted! >_< ^o^

the moment i saw your name on the post i knew i had to prepare an apology

im sorry i just can't find another better example Triela

Gomen

It's ok! ^_^ I am happy you though of my... slight obsession with Orlando Bloom... alright huge obsession...

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Re: Petrushka

Post by arimareiji on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 16:41

darksnowwhite wrote:The whole... "throwing up" thing bugs me too. Triela often speaks her mind to Hillshire, without feeling the need to throw up afterwards, and the basic 2nd Gen conditioning was supposed to be less than the 1st Gen. I also get annoyed, because as an older girl, she should be more capable of at least accepting the possibility that her feelings towards Sandro are no more than the conditioning.

I'm not absolutely sure, but I think the vomiting was coincidental. She'd never smoked before, and he had just made her try one.

(Nicotine in a higher dose than you're used to is a powerful emetic. It depends on the brand and the person's sensitivity, but a nonsmoker who smokes a whole cigarette would probably throw up within half an hour at most.)

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Re: Petrushka

Post by arimareiji on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 16:50

@Kiskaloo wrote:I certainly hope that is not a side effect of the Generation 2 series conditioning since my OC is one, as well. And she loves to cook. I mean this is Rome, but I'd rather not have Kara hang out in a vomitorium. Guh?

I probably should have replied to both of you in one post, but I was too lazy to properly separate out the tags. sweat

Vomitoriums (or vomitoria) did exist, but they weren't used for upchucking.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2421/were-there-really-vomitoriums-in-ancient-rome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vomitoria

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Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 17:03

@arimareiji wrote:
darksnowwhite wrote:The whole... "throwing up" thing bugs me too. Triela often speaks her mind to Hillshire, without feeling the need to throw up afterwards, and the basic 2nd Gen conditioning was supposed to be less than the 1st Gen. I also get annoyed, because as an older girl, she should be more capable of at least accepting the possibility that her feelings towards Sandro are no more than the conditioning.
I'm not absolutely sure, but I think the vomiting was coincidental. She'd never smoked before, and he had just made her try one.
It is not coincidental, as per the discussion with the doctor, Petra's conditioning level was quite high because she just 'came out of the vat' and needed to be adjusted. I see it as Petra should have been in the medical ward just a bit longer until things were sorted out but Sandro wanted to play with his new dolly so much he did not cared about what was to happen afterwards. Thus her conditioning setting must be so high (unlike Triela and Henrietta which are quite low), that talking about Sandro in a negative way upsets her little ballerina tummy....

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Re: Petrushka

Post by arimareiji on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 18:36

@ElfenMagix wrote:
@arimareiji wrote:
darksnowwhite wrote:The whole... "throwing up" thing bugs me too. Triela often speaks her mind to Hillshire, without feeling the need to throw up afterwards, and the basic 2nd Gen conditioning was supposed to be less than the 1st Gen. I also get annoyed, because as an older girl, she should be more capable of at least accepting the possibility that her feelings towards Sandro are no more than the conditioning.
I'm not absolutely sure, but I think the vomiting was coincidental. She'd never smoked before, and he had just made her try one.
It is not coincidental, as per the discussion with the doctor, Petra's conditioning level was quite high because she just 'came out of the vat' and needed to be adjusted. I see it as Petra should have been in the medical ward just a bit longer until things were sorted out but Sandro wanted to play with his new dolly so much he did not cared about what was to happen afterwards. Thus her conditioning setting must be so high (unlike Triela and Henrietta which are quite low), that talking about Sandro in a negative way upsets her little ballerina tummy....
I got curious enough to pull out volume 6 (ADV version). This is what I've got...
Sandro: "For starters, just call me 'Sandro'."
Petra: "Alright... Signor Sandro. ... Sorry. It just slipped out."
Sandro: "What is that? The conditioning? Fine. Try calling me a pezzo di merda."
Petra: "... Pe... Pe..." (runs to the bathroom)
Sandro: "What the hell's going on here? I thought the conditioning was supposed to be milder this time."
Doctor: "It's plenty mild. The girls are under a tremendous amount of stress when they first wake up. She hasn't gotten used to her new environment yet."
Sandro: "And what's with calling your handler 'Signor'? Did you guys do that?"
The conversation goes off on a tangent from there.
As we were talking about on another thread, sometimes subtle nuances can make important changes to meaning - so I certainly can't discount mistranslation. But as it's written, the doctor is saying that the conditioning is mild; she's under high stress because she just woke up. It's a different reason, but it agrees with what you said about her needing to be in the medical ward, but he wants to play with his new toy. (I really liked the observation, btw.)
Also, the way it's phrased shows Sandro is changing the subject when he talks about her mannerism of calling him "Signor." He doesn't bring up that she's unable to speak disrespectfully, nor does he add the relevant fact that he just made her try a cigarette.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 22:17

The question is, mild for who?
We all know that Henrietta and Triela are the lowest dosed. Thats a given.
Rico- how knows, specualtaions says tht she is the highest, and from how she operates, she freezes all the time and awaits orders like a robot. She is also seemingly too happy for no reason at all. (Of course we can argue that she did not have a life before being a cyborg and now does but thats besides the point). Petra seems to be happy all the time for no reason as well. This point to me that her conditioning must be as high as Rico's.

So, mild conditioning? Compared to whom?

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 22:48

I am not sure if it is quite as high as Rico's, since Petra does show some signs of defiance and even antagonism against Alessandro, neither of which I think Rico is capable of.

Jean had made it clear he views Rico as a tool. So he must have conditioned her to whatever level he feels necessary to get whatever level of performance he feels he needs from her.

What will be interesting to see is what happens when she can no longer deliver that level. Will she will be replaced with a new subject (as Jean felt in Volume 1) or will he show some heart?
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Re: Petrushka

Post by Nachtsider on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 23:09

That's what Jean outwardly shows. Deep down inside, I think he does care. I've never once thought him to be a nasty man.

The way I see it, Jean would not ask for a replacement if he lost Rico for whatever reason. He'd remain at the Agency in an administrative capacity and go on missions in a support role, though.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Thanatos on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 23:15

Petra seems to be happy all the time for no reason as well. This point to me that her conditioning must be as high as Rico's.

Seriously?

Why?

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Nachtsider on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 23:40

People, Rico's happiness is not a result of her conditioning. It's her expressing her joy at being cured of her disabilities.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 18 Sep 2008 - 23:58

@Nachtsider wrote:People, Rico's happiness is not a result of her conditioning. It's her expressing her joy at being cured of her disabilities.

Very true.

At the end of Episode 2 she does note that she wakes up every morning happy she still has her new body. And she does like to run around and exercise it.
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Re: Petrushka

Post by Danjo3 on Fri 19 Sep 2008 - 11:32

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Nachtsider wrote:People, Rico's happiness is not a result of her conditioning. It's her expressing her joy at being cured of her disabilities.
Very true.
Ditto.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 19 Sep 2008 - 12:50

@ElfenMagix wrote:Petra seems to be happy all the time for no reason as well.

I think she's happy because Alessandro dotes on her. I also think she's happy for the same reason Nachtsider noted Rico is happy - she has a fully-functional body (again, in Petra's case). She attempted suicide because she was no longer "whole" and now she has a body capable of feats her original one could never hope to perform.

We see her practicing ballerina moves in the compound and her performing gymnastics in the field. She may not be as ecstatic as Rico is (since Rico never had a working body while Petra did, lost it for a short time, and then got an even better one), but she certainly seems to be happy she has one.

But I do think Alessandro doting on her is a more powerful influence to her happiness... sweat
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Re: Petrushka

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 19 Sep 2008 - 18:22

Put simply, Petra's happy because Sandro's all over her like an ant on sugar, and she's flattered by the attention.

My original post said 'flies on shit', but I thought that might of been too harsh...

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Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 19 Sep 2008 - 21:30

Pigs in Mud, Flies in Shit, Ants in Sugar...
All the same tome.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Guest on Wed 24 Dec 2008 - 6:41

Wait a second. Petra jumped off the roof of her hospital after her right leg was amputated? Heheheh... hah... hahahahaha! Laughing

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Re: Petrushka

Post by LoC978 on Wed 24 Dec 2008 - 7:01

Actually, I think it was supposed to be after she got the news, but before they could perform the operation.
Possibly only a moment after Alessandro first talked to her on the roof.
Muh-m-muhahahaha!

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 24 Dec 2008 - 11:06

Yeah, I am sure she was told that her leg would need to be amputated and she killed herself since her dreams of being a world-class ballerina would now be over.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Guest on Wed 24 Dec 2008 - 13:38

Hmm, could be. But the M-S translation reads as follows:



Reading that, I got this morbidly hilarious mental picture of her journey to the hospital rooftop and what it consisted of. One plausible explanation would be that she used a wheelchair to get to the elevator and then crawled the rest of the way, but that seems a bit too slow for all the orderlies and nurses running around to not have seen her. Did she speedily hop on one leg all the way, or something?

How could they have not caught a one-legged cancer patient? Must be some pretty incompetent hospital staff. Perhaps there's more going on here than we realize.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 24 Dec 2008 - 14:00

Italy was the last chance to save the leg, but it didn't seem to be something so imminently critical to her living that they would have to amputate immediately. After all, she was still able to dance for Sandro.

That being said, she could have just heaved herself out of her wheelchair while sitting at the edge of the roof. The orderlies would likely not have had time to stop her, and she could have waited until they were not looking, as well.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Guest on Wed 24 Dec 2008 - 14:19

There's a good possibility. Out for a breath of fresh air and some sunlight, and then wham, she jumps. I'm not so sure they'd let a patient in recovery shortly after such an extensive procedure go much of anywhere besides the bathroom, though. Amputation of cancerous tissues is different from amputation after injury or infection. Usually, they keep close tabs on the patient's condition through a battery of regular tests and checkups to make sure it's all gone and hasn't metastasized to the other organs, and for that, they pretty much need the individual in question to stay put.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 24 Dec 2008 - 20:42

Boing, Boing, Boing, Boing, Boi...AAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!

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Re: Petrushka

Post by boomer_gonz on Thu 25 Dec 2008 - 6:49

Petrushka: Get it right goddammit! I didn't hop, I fuggin' leaped. I'm a freakin' ballerina for chrissakes!!

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Awinnell on Thu 25 Dec 2008 - 10:08

it would be hard to jete of a roof top with one leg but not impossible

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Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 25 Dec 2008 - 15:22

The problem here is simple.
When did Elizabetta tried to commit suicide?
A) After she was told of the news but before the surgery? Then she jumped.
(Possibly after 'Sandro spoke to her...)

or
B) After she woke up after surgery and found the leg amputated? Then she hopped.

In thinking about this, I would have to say A.

First off, what she was doing up on the roof when 'Sandro found her in the first place? Second, After surgery, she would be too drugged up to even get out of bed, and as somebody stated, she would be under constant watch. Third, when given the news of what has to be done, she fell into that "I cant live anymore" mindset of one who's carreer has been destroyed.

What gets to me is, why wasn't a third option given to her: Bone transplant or Artificial device put in? Both are used here in the States, and if Italy is so advanced, this would have been an option for her.

Anyone noticed the height and build difference between Petra and Eliza?
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Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 25 Dec 2008 - 15:42

It might have been that the risk of the cancer spreading was too great to transplant and amputation was the safest option rather then a transplant. Or the tumor could have been so large the transplant would have been too dangerous or the chance of rejection too high.

Since the SWA's most advanced civilian prosthesis are still only for young children, Elizabetta likely would have had to have a standard prosthetic which would have not worked for ballet. Or even if one of the advanced models could have been fitted due to her size, they may not be to the level of the military ones the combat cyborgs are fitted with and therefore also insufficient for a ballerina - especially one who wanted to become an international star.

As to the length of her legs, I imagine it was a practical rather then an aesthetic decision by Ziliani and Bergonzi. Even with the longer legs, she is still shorter then Triela by 2-3cm / 1 inch. Being a ballerina, even at 16 she was likely quite short and light.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Danjo3 on Thu 25 Dec 2008 - 17:18

@boomer_gonz wrote:Petrushka: Get it right goddammit! I didn't hop, I fuggin' leaped. I'm a freakin' ballerina for chrissakes!!
:lol!:
@ElfenMagix wrote:The problem here is simple.
When did Elizabetta tried to commit suicide?
A) After she was told of the news but before the surgery? Then she jumped.
(Possibly after 'Sandro spoke to her...)
or
B) After she woke up after surgery and found the leg amputated? Then she hopped.

In thinking about this, I would have to say A.
Agreed.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by West Nile on Wed 31 Dec 2008 - 6:07

@ElfenMagix wrote:The problem here is simple.
When did Elizabetta tried to commit suicide?
A) After she was told of the news but before the surgery? Then she jumped.
(Possibly after 'Sandro spoke to her...)

or
B) After she woke up after surgery and found the leg amputated? Then she hopped.

In thinking about this, I would have to say A.


Maybe C

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Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 1 Jan 2009 - 21:57

@West Nile wrote:
@ElfenMagix wrote:The problem here is simple.
When did Elizabetta tried to commit suicide?
A) After she was told of the news but before the surgery? Then she jumped.
(Possibly after 'Sandro spoke to her...)

or
B) After she woke up after surgery and found the leg amputated? Then she hopped.

In thinking about this, I would have to say A.


Maybe C

Yu Aida is now cursing us for finding another flaw in his story telling

Or D: 'Sandro pushed her off the roof when Dulivier caugh him feeling her up...
"Girl? What Girl?!!"

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Danjo3 on Fri 2 Jan 2009 - 22:42

Iím surprised she didnít get lost on the way down.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by boomer_gonz on Sat 3 Jan 2009 - 3:43

It probably went something like this.

Petra: Lemme see twelve, eleven, ten... What the fuck?! Stupid thirteenth floor superstition!!!

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Guest on Mon 5 Jan 2009 - 18:56

Jajajaja.

I always thought that she jumped after getting the *news*, but that may just be me....

And this is just my shoddy memory, but is Petra still smaller than Triela? It was mentioned in an earlier post that Elizabetta was like an inch shorter than her- did they make her taller during the cyberization or keep her small stature? I haven't really seen them side-to-side....or i might've and i've forgotten, and that'd be my b ^^;

Oh and i know i'm hilariously late in posting this but that TV tropes site is amazing. I've been lurking around it for a while and when i saw a post referencing it here i absolutely spazzed, lol.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 5 Jan 2009 - 19:27

Bloomablebee wrote:And this is just my shoddy memory, but is Petra still smaller than Triela?

The manga explicitly states that Petrushka is 160cm tall. While no height is given for Triela (or any of the other girls) in the manga or the anine, the "Character Height Sheets" Yu drew shows Triela's head above the 160cm line by a bit.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 5 Jan 2009 - 21:00

That makes 'Sandro a Gimp Shrimp!

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 5 Jan 2009 - 21:05

@ElfenMagix wrote:That makes 'Sandro a Gimp Shrimp!

Based on the cover page of Chapter 32, he's likely no more then 165cm, which would make him the shortest canon handler by about 10cm (Hillshire is the second shortest at around 173-175).

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Danjo3 on Wed 7 Jan 2009 - 15:06

If you look at Hillshire and Triela together in chapter 4, then compare it to the two of them in chapter 58, you can see that Triela has grown quite a bit.



Or maybe it's Hillshire who's shrunk. Laughing

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 7 Jan 2009 - 15:13

I suppose it could be a perspective thing. Hillshire is a step or two ahead of her.

Maybe it's a really steep hallway. Razz

That being said, based on those "height charts", Hillshire is the shortest handler at around 174cm. That's the same height as Franca!

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Danjo3 on Wed 7 Jan 2009 - 15:18

Well, thereís also the pic in the same chapter where sheís resting her head on his shoulder.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 7 Jan 2009 - 15:21

Well maybe Elfen is right and they have augmented her to be taller for her mission to protect Prosecutor Guellfi in addition to having Alessandro apply make-up to have her appear as 20.

Then again, maybe Yu is just adapting the characters to meet the needs of the story. Smile

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Danjo3 on Wed 7 Jan 2009 - 15:39

@Kiskaloo wrote:Then again, maybe Yu is just adapting the characters to meet the needs of the story. Smile
You may very well be right.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Triela on Wed 7 Jan 2009 - 17:18

But then you do have to take into account Yu's changed art style. Maybe that has something to do with it as well.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by LoC978 on Wed 7 Jan 2009 - 19:39

also, 5" heels can make a huge difference, I've been looked in the eye by many a 5'4" woman in heels.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Guest on Sat 25 Apr 2009 - 6:49

Hello there. Just finished a marathon of volume 6-10, so I didn't really know about Petrushka until now.

Funny thing is, I usually associate the nickname "Petra" with "Petrang Kabayo" (Petra the Horse). I don't remember much but I reckon it's about a movie in the 1980's about homosexual (no offense intended), "not very pretty" named Petra who, on some occasions, changes into a horse. At one time, he appeared half-human, half-horse. Sort of Pan-like. It was supposed to be a comedy but, being a preschool kid at the time, I found the image rather... disturbing.

Which is to say that every time I see Petra, I see . . . a horse.

Anyway, though I am not very fond of them, I think the addition of Petra + Gen2 girls as somewhat almost necessary step to the development of new storylines. There are limits to how far Yu Aida can take the relationship between preteen girls and male bachelors. Triela was borderline. 16-year-old girl with hotshot intel-guy, though still near the borderline, is a more acceptable. That is to say they can have sex with not many eyebrows raised.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 25 Apr 2009 - 7:21

graywolf202 wrote:There are limits to how far Yu Aida can take the relationship between preteen girls and male bachelors.
I don't think there's any harm with staying well within those limits, to be honest.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by maverick375 on Sat 25 Apr 2009 - 8:07

Even with the longer legs, she is still shorter then Triela by 2-3cm / 1 inch. Being a ballerina, even at 16 she was likely quite short and light.

Hmm... Petra's only 5'2" or so? I think I need to do some continuity work in my story. I figured she was about five-eight. I keep forgetting that Italians in general are smaller. Jamie, my OC, is about Five-eight, so she'll likely be the tallest of the cyborgs in my continuity.

As for when Elizabeta jumped... though the thought that she jumped after had occured to me, I figured that she probably jumped before any operation and likely shortly after Sandro talked to her. Why else would she be up there? If she didn't jump that day then not long after, as she was probably working up the guts to do it when Sandro spotted her. People who are facing their entire life being changed before them don't really think rationally in the short term.

A young girl facing her life's work being destroyed because of something out of her control, a life that she wanted more than anything else, and the only thing she really feels comfort in, and it's ripped away. Hopelessness is the inevitable feeling, and if your life is that focused, jumping might seem like the only option. Better to jump and die with two legs than live as a shadow of one's self with one. At least that's how she likely saw it. A young mind can't see the possibilities or effects through the pain.
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Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 25 Apr 2009 - 9:37

graywolf202 wrote:Anyway, though I am not very fond of them, I think the addition of Petra + Gen2 girls as somewhat almost necessary step to the development of new storylines. There are limits to how far Yu Aida can take the relationship between preteen girls and male bachelors. Triela was borderline. 16-year-old girl with hotshot intel-guy, though still near the borderline, is a more acceptable. That is to say they can have sex with not many eyebrows raised.

While there is much discussion about Petra being added purely for fan-service and/or sexual needs, Yu has yet to go in either direction with her and Sandro.

On the flip side, having a fratello only about a decade apart in actual age (Sandro should not be much more then 26 based on his back-story) and able to be half that in physical appearance (Petra has passed for 20 and I expect Sandro can pass for 25) no doubt allows for more options when in public. They can be a couple. They can be professional partners.

Henrietta, Elsa, Beatrice and Angelica are (were) forever going to be little girls. You just cannot modify their physical appearance to be anything else. So they can only pass as a little sister, niece or daughter to their handlers.

Claes has passed for fifteen (Lake Maggiore) and I expect Rico could also pass for 15-16 if required. That opens up a bit more options during a mission, but it really doesn't make any difference as a fratello because they still cannot be anything other then family to each other.

Triela has passed for nineteen (Naples) so she can (and has) serve(d) as Hillshire's assistant, but it requires more work then it does with Petra and Sandro and there is still well over a decade between them even then (I expect Hillshire is in his mid-to-late 30's).

So rather then adding them so she can flash her panties or they can screw each other, Yu may very well have added them to provide more depth into the missions the SWA can undertake.


@maverick375 wrote:Hmm... Petra's only 5'2" or so?

The manga explicitly states she is 160cm tall, which is 5'3".

Kara is 165cm (5' 5") and is taller then any of the canon cyborgs.


Last edited by Kiskaloo on Sat 25 Apr 2009 - 14:34; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Robert Frazer on Sat 25 Apr 2009 - 14:26

Alessandro's conversation inducing Elizabeta to jump - that's a very ghoulish idea!

In any case, it's not what happened - the operation to excise her cancer was a failure, resulting instead in a whole amputation, and that's why she committed suicide. Dancing meant everything to her - it was her talent, the gift which had lifted her out of destitution and defined her very self - and without even an outside chance of it being preserved, her will to live was snuffed out. When Duvalier is talking to his assistants, they read the report on Elizabeta and explain:

"They amputated her right leg, and she jumped off the roof of her hospital. She'd never be able to dance on a civilian prosthetic, huh?"

Elizabeta still had both of her legs when she met Alessandro!

You can ask what she was doing up on the roof in the first place - maybe she was considering her options, or maybe she just wanted some fresh air - but those are her thoughts alone and really besides the point. To say that Alessandro was a cause of Elizabeta's death is a stretch for even the most vehement anti-Sandrite. Guh?


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Re: Petrushka

Post by ElfenMagix on Sat 25 Apr 2009 - 14:47

The thing with dancers is that even if they lose their ability to dance, they can still be dance instructors, so this suicide beef about her ending it because she can no longer dance or dance at the level she once could is a lot of buffalo. Though in V6/CH31 shows that Elizabetta wnted to be, she was not good enough to be the star she could have been. At this point of the game, she was already going into a depression about not being good enough. But she could have still been something in her dance carreer regardless of the immediate outcome.

Interesting point in V6/CH30/P80 (need to verify with the English Manga against the scanlation I have), Sandro tells Elizabetta "I'm sorry for bringing you out here for no reason". "Out Here" being the roof of the hospital. It is strange as to why Sandro would just walk into a hospital room, look at a patient and ask her to go to the roof with him, and she complies! Yes, he was looking for a potiential cyborg candiate, but was he also looking for some young nookie to get his jollies off too? And in looking at Sandro and Elizabetta on the roof, did Louis take it that Sandro chose her to be that candiate? Elizabetta only seemed to be at best manipulated into limited options inwhich she decided to take her own course of action- suicide. Or or this just a cover up in the SWA stealing a fine and fit specimen that Elizabetta was and converting her into a cyborg?

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Re: Petrushka

Post by maverick375 on Sat 25 Apr 2009 - 15:55

The thing with dancers is that even if they lose their ability to dance, they can still be dance instructors, so this suicide beef about her ending it because she can no longer dance or dance at the level she once could is a lot of buffalo.

Again, a logical thinking person would consider the possibility to teach what she knows. The (young) human heart does not think logically, and after having what she considers her life ripped away, I doubt Elizabeta was thinking logically, if at all.

Sandro tells Elizabetta "I'm sorry for bringing you out here for no reason". "Out Here" being the roof of the hospital. It is strange as to why Sandro would just walk into a hospital room, look at a patient and ask her to go to the roof with him, and she complies!
My copy of the official English version is at my friend's, but my understanding is that Sandro was up there to have a smoke or get fresh air himself, and then came across her. He observed that she looked Russian(his skill), and chatted her up for a few. She was depressed when he was speaking to her. You can argue whether the scans or the official is more accurate.

The fact that they had a file/evaluation on her so quickly after lends itself to the idea that they may have been looking at her as a possible, even before she jumped. I would not put that past the agency.

The scene with the twins might in fact be a continuity error, or it could even be an error on their part, given limited information. Her jumping with both legs is more plausible simply because of the limited time-frame Sandro's selection process would have.
It would be a pretty feat for someone who had just had a limb amputated to escape any monitoring she might have (electronic and by staff), make their way to the roof, and then jump. Not impossible, but not easy by any means.

It's a moot point regardless. Whether one leg or two, she jumped of her own free will, not because of something Sandro said.
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Re: Petrushka

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 2:38

@Nachtsider wrote:
graywolf202 wrote:There are limits to how far Yu Aida can take the relationship between preteen girls and male bachelors.
I don't think there's any harm with staying well within those limits, to be honest.
Agreed. I donít think itís necessary that any of the relationships have to end in sex - the story has done fine without it so far.

Of course, thereís the question of whether or not Sandro has already boned Petra (I personally think he has) but thereís been on confirmation of this.
@Kiskaloo wrote:They can be a couple. They can be professional partners.
I think that would be fine in a separate, stand alone story (spin-off), but I just donít think it fits in with the GSG theme. The whole idea behind GSG is the big brother/little sister relationship. Sandro and Petra pretty much defeat that idea.


Or, according to TV Tropes:
TV Tropes wrote:"It also doesn't help that even more Petra-like characters are being introduced in the manga, fundamentally diverting the attention from the much younger first girls, since the plot's poignancy stems largely from the fact the girls' age didn't match their occupation as assassins. It gets even worse when Petra actually appears to start a sexual relationship with her handler, Alessandro, which breaks the "fratello"-dynamics on a basic level."

And yes, I am one of those who believe that Petraís purpose in the story is first and for most, fan service.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 11:37

I have a number of issues with that Tropes entry, as it strikes me more as one person's ranting about something they personally feel has happened and is therefore "wrong" rather then a critical evaluation of how the trope applies to Gunslinger Girl. Especially since the other three Series Two girls were purely cameos. Plus when you get right down to it, Triela may look 13, but she's likely chronologically around 19. Angelica was likely around 16 when she died, Rico is 15 and Claes is probably about that age, as well. And all of them have years more experience as assassins and actives then Petra does.

As for the "big brother / little sister" relationship, at the moment that only really applies to Giuse and Henrietta. None of the other fratelli have really shown such a dynamic and Triela and Hillshire are starting to also perform in a "partnership" role like Sandro and Petrushka do (their mission to protect Prosecutor Guellfi at the Western Excelsior Rome hotel).

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 13:23

I donít know Kisk, from what Iíve read in tv trope concerning GSG, it seems pretty much spot on. Now I know we have a few Petra fans here in the forum, you being one of them, and thatís fine, but her fans are very few and far between. You donít have to dig very deep into the internet to see the vast majority of GSG fans donít just dislike her and her ďbrotherĒ, they hate them.

Tv trope described the fandoms reaction to vol.6 as WTF! Now Iím not sure exactly how long youíve been with us, but I can tell you that when 6 dropped, we all felt the same way. It seemed like some kind of bad joke, seeing how we had waited so long for it (except for the first two chapters, which were both beautiful and poignant). But we are die hard fans, so we just figured we would wait for 7 and everything would be back to normal. It wasnít. 7 tried to cram more Petra down our throats. From what I was reading on the internet at the time, tv tropes is correct when they say the franchise started hemorrhaging fans. OK, allís not lost. Yu is obliviously aware of whatís going on and heíll at least put Petra in the back ground for vol.8.

WRONG! He gives her the whole goddamn volume. Up to that point you could never have shaken my faith in GSG. Iím not a big anime fan, never have been, but I live for GSG. After vol.8 dropped, I seriously considered walking away. Why should I wait for god knows how long for vol.9 to come out, just to get another kick in the balls. The forum was pretty bleak then too - I mean, how long can sit around and bitch about Petra? But needless to say, I and most of my fellow die hards stuck in out, and were pleasantly surprised to see that Yu had somewhat come back to his senses. And it goes with out saying that vol.10 electrified the fandom and breathed new life into a franchise most of feared was on itís way to the scrap heap.

Tv Trope said that thanks to Petra, vol.7 and up, will never see the English light of day. I donít know if thatís true, but looking at the overall situation, it makes perfect sense.

Sorry, I didnít mean to go off on a rant. I known how much I hate reading posts by people who donít know when to shut the fuck up, so Iíll shut up.


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Re: Petrushka

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 14:11

Well I am guessing her hatred is an American thing, since he continues to write her in for the core audience (Japan) and France also continues to publish issues. So I guess the American fandom has only themselves to blame for not buying Volume 6 and convincing ADV to drop the manga. Now we just have to hope somebody continues to provide the RAWs from Japan (chapter or volume) so we can continue to follow along.

It's no secret Triela is immensely popular here in the States, and she seems to be popular amongst most of our non-Japanese foreign members, as well. So I can understand why everyone went gaga over Volume 10. I mean yes, it was well-written, but I think the fact that it was Triela is what made it so compelling for people. Any other fratello, and people likely would have been far more subdued in their praise, I expect.

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Re: Petrushka

Post by Danjo3 on Mon 27 Apr 2009 - 15:01

Ouch! Please forgive us for being Americans.

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