Beatrice

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Re: Beatrice

Post by MikhailN on Thu 11 Jun 2009 - 22:04

ElfenMagix wrote:We just have to wait and see on this one.
I would even dare say that that warhead was a low level nuke, and everyone on the immediate area was killed. It would explain why 65 and 66 are in "Memory Black Border Mode"

And that also explains why the character list only has Rico, Henrietta, Jean and Jose. Hilshire, Petra, Sandro, and even Claes are dead. Guh?

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 11 Jun 2009 - 22:21

ElfenMagix wrote:I would even dare say that that warhead was a low level nuke, and everyone on the immediate area was killed.

It was most certainly not a nuke. The warhead was said to be 500kg of high explosive so it is most likely a short-range ballistic missile. It was also stated as being smuggled in by Muslim terrorists, so I am guessing it is something like a SCUD, FROG or Iranian/Chinese design.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 11 Jun 2009 - 22:27

We will have to wait and see when 64 comes out.
says it was a Snoopy (aka: Suitcase sized nuke warhead).

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Re: Beatrice

Post by maverick375 on Thu 11 Jun 2009 - 23:40

I doubt it was a nuke. The Japanese obsess over them, and had it been one, the blast frame would have been a city over-view with a shock-wave ripping it apart. While there is a shockwave, it's not nuclear.

From the blast it looked pretty small, relatively speaking. 500kg seems about right for the missile size. It's no SCUD, as those things are a lot larger than that, closer to a V2 in size and require an over-sized transport vehicle. Maybe an air-launched cruise missile. In the last frame before it blows, it looks proportionally right to be the front end of a Tomahawk, though it doesn't look like that anywhere but there.

Beatrice is toast, Triela will be lucky to survive. I'm a bit confused as to why you're all convinced Jose and Jean die in the explosion. Jean is almost a hundred yards away with Rico, sniping at that tower. Jose is on a rooftop, almost as far away. Hillshire is somewhere other than the tower.

About the only way I can see any one of them dying at this point is if it were a nuke, or by an overly dramatic and unrealistic use of shrapnel.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 11 Jun 2009 - 23:47

It's just the forward part of a missile (upper stage) which is why it's "small". There would be no need for the first stage booster since it's not being used as a ballistic missile.

It doesn't look at all like a Tomohawk or a Harpoon, plus the Arabs would be unlikely to have access to those weapons - well, at least before they're detonated. Wink

Giuse and Jean survive because they're in the Chapter 65 cast of characters along with Rico and Henrietta.

Mind you, they're the only four people listed in the Cast, so... snow

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Re: Beatrice

Post by MikhailN on Thu 11 Jun 2009 - 23:52

maverick375 wrote:Beatrice is toast, Triela will be lucky to survive. I'm a bit confused as to why you're all convinced Jose and Jean die in the explosion. Jean is almost a hundred yards away with Rico, sniping at that tower. Jose is on a rooftop, almost as far away. Hillshire is somewhere other than the tower.

Triela? If that's so then we're going to have a super emo scene with Triela dying in Hilshire's arms. Then again, because The Artist Said So, 5 chapters later would see her recovering in a hospital bed.

Our theory about Jose and Jean dying is based on some obscure theory that supports Murphy's Law. It states that the probability of an event occuring is never 0, no matter how improbable it is. Those who study quantum physics, statistics and probability may have heard of it.

Kiskaloo wrote:Giuse and Jean survive because they're in the Chapter 65 cast of characters along with Rico and Henrietta.
Mind you, they're the only four people listed in the Cast, so... snow

That's really terrible. Even Claes died? Guh?

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Re: Beatrice

Post by maverick375 on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 0:01

Maybe the missing ones are simply unncessary to the story at the moment. Jean DID tell Sandro that he and Petra could hang back and do nothing.

That's really terrible. Even Claes died? Guh?

That's one hell of a precision bomb.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by sasahara17 on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 5:41

MikhailN wrote:That's really terrible. Even Claes died?
MikhailN wrote:Even Claes died?
MikhailN wrote:Claes died?
MikhailN wrote:Claes

Cry

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Re: Beatrice

Post by MikhailN on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 5:49

sasahara17 wrote:
MikhailN wrote:That's really terrible. Even Claes died?
MikhailN wrote:Even Claes died?
MikhailN wrote:Claes died?
MikhailN wrote:Claes

Cry

Lol I didn't realize I repeated myself that many times. Apologies for that.

Anyway I was trying to debunk that strange theory that everyone died because the character listing only showed 4 characters. Where's Petra? Claes? Sandro? Marco? Dr. Bianchi? Did that little explosion at the clock tower take out the entire SWA with some shockwave? Nuke Guh? A better reason for that sudden lack of characters in the listing would be because that volume doesn't call upon the rest. By the next volume I bet we're going to see the rest of the (remaining?) cast in the character listing.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by sasahara17 on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 5:55

MikhailN wrote:Lol I didn't realize I repeated myself that many times. Apologies for that.
Naw, it was more the 'shocking words echoing in Sasahara's head' effect.

...
MikhailN wrote:Claes died?

...*sniff*

Still Beatrice went out in style. Perished while chucking a bomb nearly three times your size out the window to save your comrade. Someone give this girl the Italian equivalent of a Medal of Honor. I mean, if she were in the regular military, such a feat would have certainly warranted it.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Danjo3 on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 6:18

MikhailN wrote:That's really terrible. Even Claes died? Guh?
I donít think Claes died Ė she probably just felt a great disturbance in the Force.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 6:38

As if millions of Gunslinger Girl fans cried out in anguish, and were silenced by the shocking finality of the images that unfolded before their eyes.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by West Nile on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 8:42

maybe the character thingy only shows the people who are gonna come out in d flashbacks and their cyborgs... *fingers crossed*

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Re: Beatrice

Post by West Nile on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 8:43

MikhailN wrote:That's really terrible. Even Claes died? Guh?

from shock since her "lover" died

you can't go through shock twice

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 9:13

Lover? Who?

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 9:14

Captain Raballo certainly wasn't Claes lover.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Danjo3 on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 9:58

Kiskaloo wrote:Captain Raballo certainly wasn't Claes lover.
Definitely not. Although it is entirely possible that she was falling for him.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 10:26

Danjo3 wrote:
Kiskaloo wrote:Captain Raballo certainly wasn't Claes lover.
Definitely not. Although it is entirely possible that she was falling for him.

She was compelled to love him due to the conditioning, but I am strongly inclined to think he put the kabosh on her exhibiting any feelings beyond "familial affection".

I am also strongly inclined to view their relationship as a "mentor / student" or "senior / junior partner" one. I don't believe she looked at him as some kind of "father figure" because I doubt he would stand for, much less encourage, her taking such a view of him. He was an old soldier and she was a new recruit.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Danjo3 on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 10:33

Kiskaloo wrote:I don't believe she looked at him as some kind of "father figure" because I doubt he would stand for, much less encourage, her taking such a view of him.
Possibly, but keep in mind how difficult it is to give orders to a young girls heart.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 12 Jun 2009 - 10:36

Kiskaloo wrote:I don't believe she looked at him as some kind of "father figure" because I doubt he would stand for, much less encourage, her taking such a view of him.
Given time, I think he might have ended up not minding it at all.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by West Nile on Sat 13 Jun 2009 - 4:32

Kiskaloo wrote:Captain Raballo certainly wasn't Claes lover.

i said "can't go through shock twice" right?

i was referring to her forbidden lover Laughing

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Kiskaloo on Sat 13 Jun 2009 - 10:28

West Nile wrote:
Kiskaloo wrote:Captain Raballo certainly wasn't Claes lover.

i said "can't go through shock twice" right?

i was referring to her forbidden lover Laughing

Sorry. I'm not one of those who buys into the doujin/fan speculation that Claes is a closet nymphomaniac or someone who pleasures herself all day while the other girls are out on missions. NO

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Danjo3 on Sat 13 Jun 2009 - 11:50

Kiskaloo wrote:Sorry. I'm not one of those who buys into the doujin/fan speculation that Claes is a closet nymphomaniac or someone who pleasures herself all day while the other girls are out on missions. NO
Amen Brother. Not to mention her smut novel habit. NO

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Re: Beatrice

Post by West Nile on Sat 13 Jun 2009 - 21:54

*face palm*

i was just referring to Triela here

the grief of Triela's death, kills her....

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Re: Beatrice

Post by MikhailN on Sun 14 Jun 2009 - 5:54

West Nile wrote:*face palm*

i was just referring to Triela here

the grief of Triela's death, kills her....

Was it ever mentioned in the manga that Triela is Claes' "forbidden lover?" Who put that strange idea in your head?

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Awinnell on Sun 14 Jun 2009 - 6:59

Ignore them, they keep forgetting that not everyone reads FanFiction

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 14 Jun 2009 - 9:19

I think that because Yu is responsible for several of the doujins, some people consider them as semi-canon. As far as Iím concerned they might as well be taking place on another planet.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by MikhailN on Sun 14 Jun 2009 - 9:38

Awinnell wrote:Ignore them, they keep forgetting that not everyone reads FanFiction

Oh so that bit was fanfict. Let such disturbing content remain confined to fanfiction.

Danjo3 wrote:I think that because Yu is responsible for several of the doujins, some people consider them as semi-canon. As far as Iím concerned they might as well be taking place on another planet.

QFT

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Re: Beatrice

Post by sasahara17 on Sun 14 Jun 2009 - 19:37

Ah, I missed this bit about the forum.

How a discussion on our dearly departed Bice quickly degrade a discussion on Claes love life, I will never know... but it's good. As you were, ladies and gentlemen.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by MikhailN on Sun 14 Jun 2009 - 19:44

sasahara17 wrote:Ah, I missed this bit about the forum.

How a discussion on our dearly departed Bice quickly degrade a discussion on Claes love life, I will never know... but it's good. As you were, ladies and gentlemen.

Because of Beatrice's short time around, we know little about her and you know how this kind of discussion gets sidetracked easily.

But I'm curious, how did she get that sniffing ability?

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Re: Beatrice

Post by sasahara17 on Sun 14 Jun 2009 - 20:14

MikhailN wrote:But I'm curious, how did she get that sniffing ability?
I've always assumed it was something she'd had by default, possibly a favorable quick that arose from her cybernization.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Danjo3 on Mon 15 Jun 2009 - 4:41

sasahara17 wrote:How a discussion on our dearly departed Bice quickly degrade a discussion on Claes love life, I will never know... but it's good. As you were, ladies and gentlemen.
Veering off in irrelevant directions is one of Cyborg Centrals most cherished traditions. Laughing

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Re: Beatrice

Post by sasahara17 on Tue 16 Jun 2009 - 18:25

Danjo3 wrote:Veering off in irrelevant directions is one of Cyborg Centrals most cherished traditions. Laughing
I felt that this time it reached a new level of notoriety, that's all.

Bice's wake-->Claes sex life.

Not that Claes's sex life is a topic to shy away from.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by West Nile on Tue 16 Jun 2009 - 22:48

Just got hold of a doujin...

Claes has a D*ck!! :lol!:

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Re: Beatrice

Post by MikhailN on Wed 17 Jun 2009 - 8:06

West Nile wrote:Just got hold of a doujin...

Claes has a D*ck!! :lol!:

In the manga the girls are subjected to sexual abuse, torture, snuff and near death experiences. After that they're used in some government experiment and become child soldiers subject to their handlers' every whim and fancy. As if that's not enough they're shot, beaten up and then repaired to be shot and beaten up again. I really thought I had seen it all until this comes along Angry . Just thinking about it makes me sick... Achoo!

Well, at least it addresses one big burning question: How do you test out an experimental design for a cyborg phallus?

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Danjo3 on Wed 17 Jun 2009 - 9:40

Hey, give Claes a break. Itís not every girl who can pull off a performance like that. I think sheís a real trooper.

Oh, and I guess you gotta give Triela a little credit too.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 17 Jun 2009 - 9:42

MikhailN wrote:Well, at least it addresses one big burning question: How do you test out an experimental design for a cyborg phallus?

That's Ferro's job (per boomer_gonz's Basic Necessity fiction series). Wink

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Danjo3 on Wed 17 Jun 2009 - 9:51

MikhailN wrote:Well, at least it addresses one big burning question: How do you test out an experimental design for a cyborg phallus?
It would be kind of funny if they didnít tell her about it until after the operation. Talk about a rude awakening.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 17 Jun 2009 - 16:41

*Tsk Tsk Tsk...*
How degraded must we go before we have to learn that we have seemed to have surpassed the gutter level of intellectual information exchange of our favorite subject.

Alas, typing like this get to me, since I'm at school and the filter has not caught up with me yet Evil

Though the girls have to face various misgiving from their handlers from time to time, you must remember that they are drugged up to accept this as the norm, and to please their handlers in the ways their handlers seem fit. Yes, it is unfiar to the girls. But what other options are there left for them?
...
..
.
Get Nicer Handlers!

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Awinnell on Wed 17 Jun 2009 - 16:44

get nicer handlers,would certainly work, but the SWA seems to only hire damaged goods with major hang ups, personality flaws and grudges !

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 17 Jun 2009 - 17:03

Awinnell wrote:get nicer handlers,would certainly work, but the SWA seems to only hire damaged goods with major hang ups, personality flaws and grudges !

Probably to allow the SWA to control the handler's as easily as the handler's control the cyborgs.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by sasahara17 on Wed 17 Jun 2009 - 19:42

Awinnell wrote:get nicer handlers,would certainly work, but the SWA seems to only hire damaged goods with major hang ups, personality flaws and grudges !
Gee and I thought the Cyborgs were bad... Now that you mention it, some of the handlers certainly have more emotional problems than their cyborgs. Considering they are supposed to be handling multi million Euro stae of the art adolecent killing machines, you'd think Lorenzo would have picked candidates with less problems. Lets see here...

Jose seems normal, 90% of the time.
Jean probably hides it well, but we all know as the audience his psyche is seriously screwed up.
Hillshire... you poor, poor man. More pitiful than Triela.
Raballo is dead becuase he tried to expose the SWA after meeting Claes.
Marco seemed normal until met Angie, at whcih point his life fell apart.
Lauro was shot by Elsa, no explanations there.
Bernado seems fine, but we haven't seen much of him.
'Sandro seemed like a nice guy until he pulled the blankets off Petra.

Hmmmm... perhaps emotional baggage and mental instability is an unplesant side effect from working at S2 for too long?

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Kiskaloo on Wed 17 Jun 2009 - 20:47

Honestly, I think it kind of makes sense they picked who they picked. The Generation One girls, as others have noted, are "shock troops" and assassins. They really are "blunt instruments" sent in to just lay waste to everything with no thought about finesse. I mean you look at a normal engagement with any of them, and it's just emptied clips of "spray and pray" for the most part.

Of the Series One Handlers, at least three were ex-Military police (Jose, Jean and Raballo) and two were ex-police (Hillshire and Marco). And yet none of those five operates even remotely like a soldier or a policeman would. They just point their charges at the bad-guy and tell them to kill everything in sight. Jose even mentions this to Marco in Chapter 2 when they're told their next mission is a political hit favor.

In my opinion:

Jean is totally consumed by the need for revenge over Sophia's death. She is what he kills for. Not his family. I think part of the reason Enrica visited him in his drunken hallucinations on Sicily is because part of his mind rebels at the thought the death of his own family matters so little to him.

Jose is consumed with guilt over the death of Enrica. He sees Henrietta as her reincarnation. I believe he chose Henrietta because of her resemblance to his dead sister and he's trying to make up for whatever sins he feels he must atone for with Enrica through Henrietta.

Hillshire lives with as much guilt as Jose does. It's not his little sister who was killed, but a colleague. They were both in a situation that was over their heads and that they had no right to be in and it cost that colleague her life. It also ended his own career and...saddled...him with a teenage dependent.

Raballo I believe was chosen because Jean thought he would be "safe". As his former CO and a man who had been side-lined and wanted to get back into the game, Jean felt he would "play ball". Boy was he wrong. Wink

Marco was chosen by Lorenzo for much the same reasons as Jean chose Raballo. It's just Lorenzo's choice panned out.

The manga says nothing about why Lauro joined. The anime says he did it for the money, but that strikes me as something unlikely to get him the position. It would effectively make him a mercenary and if the SWA can hire him, then the PRF can hire him away and that's a risk I think they would not be willing to take. So for me, why Lauro joined is unknown and probably always will be unknown since I don't expect Yu to ever touch on it again in the manga.

Bernardo is also a blank slate as are Silvia and Chiara's handlers (at least perhaps until we see the translations).

Alessandro was "promoted from within". I'm pretty sure he already worked for the SWA in the Public Security section and then transferred to Special Operations when the Series 2 cyborg program was put into play. I believe the Series 2 cyborgs are more...nuanced...than the Series 1 models, designed to be more flexible in mission. As such, Sandro's own experiences within SWA probably made him an ideal candidate.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Nachtsider on Thu 18 Jun 2009 - 0:05

West Nile wrote:Just got hold of a doujin...

Claes has a D*ck!! :lol!:
Oh, those crazy Japanese.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Danjo3 on Thu 18 Jun 2009 - 1:57

When you think about it, there arenít too many people who would flush a successful, well established career down the toilet to join the SWA. Thatís why they go after individuals who are damaged goods or otherwise screwed over by the system.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by sasahara17 on Thu 18 Jun 2009 - 18:47

Danjo3 wrote:When you think about it, there arenít too many people who would flush a successful, well established career down the toilet to join the SWA. Thatís why they go after individuals who are damaged goods or otherwise screwed over by the system.
Well that seems reasonable.
But what about 'Sandro? He seemed pretty well off before he met Petra.
I may be mistaken since it's been a while since I read those chapters, but 'Sandro seemed to have opted for a cyborg as his idea for career advancement.
Perhaps this can be taken as a sign that the SWA's service performance has made them as an institution a more accepted career choice?

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Nachtsider on Thu 18 Jun 2009 - 19:09

Also bear in mind: Lauro signed up for the dough.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by ElfenMagix on Thu 18 Jun 2009 - 21:39

sasahara17 wrote:Well that seems reasonable.
But what about 'Sandro? He seemed pretty well off before he met Petra.
I may be mistaken since it's been a while since I read those chapters, but 'Sandro seemed to have opted for a cyborg as his idea for career advancement.
Perhaps this can be taken as a sign that the SWA's service performance has made them as an institution a more accepted career choice?

We're talking about Sandro... the guy who had sex with anyone his boss and mentor pointed him too.

We're also talking about Section 1... Anything is better than working for Section 1...

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 18 Jun 2009 - 21:49

sasahara17 wrote:But what about 'Sandro? He seemed pretty well off before he met Petra.

He may have been recruited from Public Security by Special Operations Section 2 because they felt his background was a good fit for the new program.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Danjo3 on Fri 19 Jun 2009 - 1:48

sasahara17 wrote:But what about 'Sandro? He seemed pretty well off before he met Petra.
Itís still kind of up in the air at this point. Who knows? Maybe he made a few enemies in Section 1, and the higher ups suggested that he take a transfer. Maybe it was that or get a job flipping burgers.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by sasahara17 on Fri 19 Jun 2009 - 2:42

[quote="Danjo3"]
sasahara17 wrote:Maybe it was that or get a job flipping burgers.
*wince*

I can see what something like that can do to a man's ego.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by hydra282 on Fri 19 Jun 2009 - 15:49

Sandro's not James Bond. It didn't seem like he actually liked being a prostitute for the govt.
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Re: Beatrice

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 19 Jun 2009 - 16:12

hydra282 wrote:Sandro's not James Bond. It didn't seem like he actually liked being a prostitute for the govt.

I think it was more he was in love with, or at least strongly emotionally attracted to, Rossana.

When she left Public Safety, he was not long in following her. Wiki says he moved to Special Operations Section 1 (which would be under Draghi), but is that correct? I notice the non-ADV translation of Volume 6 says Louis Duvalier speaks with a Russian accent and the English text of his speaking to Alessandro at the hospital was written to reflect this. Yet Alessandro says he needs to practice with a native Russian speaker - so wouldn't Duvalier work? Or Olga?

And yet in the next chapter when he is speaking with his two female assistants, he's not using the "stilted English" from the previous chapter, though it's back when he speaks with Alessandro after they secure Elizabetta at the hospital.

Then again, it might just be the translation that is stilted, since some of it doesn't follow proper English grammar. Smile

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Re: Beatrice

Post by MikhailN on Fri 19 Jun 2009 - 19:06

Kiskaloo wrote:
hydra282 wrote:Sandro's not James Bond. It didn't seem like he actually liked being a prostitute for the govt.

I think it was more he was in love with, or at least strongly emotionally attracted to, Rossana.

In the first place he being in Section 1 has everything to do with Rossana. Anyway if you say he's a Section 1 reject I won't be surprised. Remember he wasn't their ideal operative? Erm... *flip pages* ah here it is. Chapter 41 page 2-3. Probably lost favour with the higher-ups after Rossana disappeared because they thought he would become like her and disappear.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by boomer_gonz on Fri 19 Jun 2009 - 19:26

Kiskaloo wrote:
I think it was more he was in love with, or at least strongly emotionally attracted to, Rossana.

The "Say 'HI' to daddy scene" and Sandro's reaction still stand out in my mind. Absolutely priceless.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 19 Jun 2009 - 21:17

hydra282 wrote:Sandro's not James Bond. It didn't seem like he actually liked being a prostitute for the govt.
I like to think that he was. The possibilities for humor at his expense are delightful.

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Re: Beatrice

Post by boomer_gonz on Fri 19 Jun 2009 - 21:26

Indeed.

...
..
.
LOLZ

Sandro: Stop calling me shrimp! I was paid to bang hot chicks on a daily basis so there.
Hillshire: You're still short.
Fernando: And pathetic.
Alpha: Not to mention dopey.
Crystal: Are you cryin wittle baby?

Sandro: Shut up! All of you just shut up!

-Sandro runs away and stops a few hallways down-

Triela: It's okay Sandro. I'm sure there are plenty of men who needs stepstools to do standing doggy with their gf's.
Sandro: You too Triela? WAAAAA!!!!!!!

-Sandro runs off and jumps out of a window, but forgot he was on the first story and landed on Claes' newly planted tree.-

-Insert Terminator theme music-

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Re: Beatrice

Post by ElfenMagix on Fri 19 Jun 2009 - 23:12

:lol!:

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Re: Beatrice

Post by Danjo3 on Sat 20 Jun 2009 - 2:24

I think itís safe to assume that Sandro had no moral objections to joining Section 2.

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Re: Beatrice

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