Jean Croce

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Jean Croce

Post by emperor on Wed 23 Apr 2008 - 3:23

Voiced by: Mitsuru Miyamoto (Japanese), Eric Vale (English) in Gunslinger Girl
Voiced by: Takehito Koyasu in Gunslinger Girl: Il Teatrino

Field commander of Section 2. Also spelled in some translations as Gian or Jan. An agent of Section 2, Rico's handler and Giuseppe's older brother. Whereas Giuseppe shows genuine care and concern for Henrietta's welfare, Jean adopts a cold and impersonal attitude, viewing Rico as a tool and keeping her on heavy doses of conditioning. This fundamental difference in their attitudes towards their charges is often a point of contention between the brothers. When both his younger sister and his fiancee, Sophia, were killed, Jean learned to hate terrorism.

As a result, Jean became driven, hard-hearted, ruthless and sometimes cruel, especially when dealing with terrorists. Jean could have specifically chosen Rico because she would not mind his cold-hearted personality, no matter what happens. He is the most trusted unofficial advisor of Lorenzo, the chief of Section 2 of the Political Warfare Section, perhaps due to his extreme rationality.

As of volume six, Jean does appear to care somewhat about Rico, when he saves her from drowning in a misguided sniping attempt. He has also shown a sign of affection for Rico when he embraces her during volume 9, this was triggered by the death of Angelica. Realizing how precious these girls they are, and lied to her telling that she died of Illness

credit:wikipedia

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 23 Apr 2008 - 3:25

This is okay.

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by West Nile on Wed 23 Apr 2008 - 9:08

@emperor wrote:He has also shown a sign of affection for Rico when he embraces her during volume 9, this was triggered by the death of Angelica. Realizing how precious these girls they are, and lied to her telling that she died of Illness

credit:wikipedia

something in the volume tells me that this is not the case...

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by ElfenMagix on Wed 23 Apr 2008 - 10:55

Updating Wikipedia, Emperor?
It seems good.

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by emperor on Wed 23 Apr 2008 - 22:41

@ElfenMagix wrote:Updating Wikipedia, Emperor?
It seems good.

I think so,Elfen but I have poor english.

So can you edit it instead of me,please?

:bball:

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Guest on Sun 23 Nov 2008 - 21:34

@West Nile wrote:
@emperor wrote:He has also shown a sign of affection for Rico when he embraces her during volume 9, this was triggered by the death of Angelica. Realizing how precious these girls they are, and lied to her telling that she died of Illness

credit:wikipedia

something in the volume tells me that this is not the case...

Ditto. Especially the 'realizing how precious these girls are'. Call me a cynic or skeptic but Rico had always been not too keen on dying. So if Jean told her Angie died because she protected Marco, it might get her to thinking a bit. Easier to say she died through illness. *shrugs*

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 23 Nov 2008 - 21:57

But technically Angelica did die from illness. The conditioning medication contributed to brain atrophy which eventually led to brain death.
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Re: Jean Croce

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 23 Nov 2008 - 22:10

MASSIVE AMOUNTS of the conditioning drug is used on the girls during surgery to keep them under. This was stated in both Epi-1:Fratello and Manga V1/CH1 by the doctor fixing Henrietta's arm, and MASSIVE AMOUNTS was used on Henrietta on just the slight arm injury...

Angie had I would dare say 90% of her body replaced? Now how much more Conditioning Meds was used on her for that fix up? A whole lot more than what Henrietta ever had in her probable whole existance, through an IV directly tied into her brain! Angie did not die from the brain injury or nuero atrophy- she died from overdose and sudden withdrawl from conditioning meds. That drug destroys brain cells- period. Giving that much to Angie to rebuild her, they bascially killed her- Period! Belongchi knew what he was doing would eventaully kill Angie anyway, so he went on doing it to save the cause and not the patient.

Thus, if they can graft artifical nerves to artifical muscles from live nerves, why could they not patch up the faltering part of Angie's brain with a bit of artifical nerves? It would be too easy to do, and we would not have a story at this point.

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 23 Nov 2008 - 22:58

That's the part I don't understand.

What, exactly, is the conditioning drug?

When Triela gives Hillshire some antibiotics in Volume 10, it looks just like the package and pills she says are her conditioning drugs. And if it's meant to be an anesthetic, how exactly does that "condition" them?

I'm guessing it's some "drug cocktail" with a bunch of different drugs performing different functions. A mix of barbiturates, analgesics, benzodiazepines, immunosuppressants and others used for multiple purposes - anesthetic, pain control, hypnotherapy and mental programming, anti-implant rejection, and such.

All of that stuff swimming in their system eventually leads to severe brain atrophy. The staff neurologist, Marianna, says it's comparable to Alzheimer's disease.



As to Jean, reading that scene again, I don't think he lied to her. But he wasn't darn well going to tell her that it was the conditioning medication that killed her since Rico likely takes plenty of it every day. Wink
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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Danjo3 on Mon 24 Nov 2008 - 5:21

@Kiskaloo wrote:When Triela gives Hillshire some antibiotics in Volume 10, it looks just like the package and pills she says are her conditioning drugs.
Thatís what I said from the very beginning. It was her conditioning medication that she gave him. Maybe Triela knows that cyborgs have a tolerance for it, but will knock a non-conditioned individual on there ass.

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 24 Nov 2008 - 11:12

@Danjo3 wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:When Triela gives Hillshire some antibiotics in Volume 10, it looks just like the package and pills she says are her conditioning drugs.
Thatís what I said from the very beginning. It was her conditioning medication that she gave him. Maybe Triela knows that cyborgs have a tolerance for it, but will knock a non-conditioned individual on there ass.

Well she was in pain and feeling tired as she walked the streets after fleeing Hillshire's suite, so it does indeed make sense that what she said were "antibiotics" were instead an analgesic/sedative which, as you noted, knocked Hillshire on his ass.
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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Triela on Thu 27 Nov 2008 - 13:57

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Danjo3 wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:When Triela gives Hillshire some antibiotics in Volume 10, it looks just like the package and pills she says are her conditioning drugs.
Thatís what I said from the very beginning. It was her conditioning medication that she gave him. Maybe Triela knows that cyborgs have a tolerance for it, but will knock a non-conditioned individual on there ass.

Well she was in pain and feeling tired as she walked the streets after fleeing Hillshire's suite, so it does indeed make sense that what she said were "antibiotics" were instead an analgesic/sedative which, as you noted, knocked Hillshire on his ass.

Well a good rest was something Hillshire needed, so I guess it was great that Triela gave him her medication.

Then again that could be dangerous if normal humans can't take it the same way cyborgs do.

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Danjo3 on Thu 27 Nov 2008 - 17:12

@Triela wrote:Then again that could be dangerous if normal humans can't take it the same way cyborgs do.
Not to mention that Hillshire was at Trielaís mercy. Evil

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Kiskaloo on Thu 27 Nov 2008 - 17:58

@Danjo3 wrote:Not to mention that Hillshire was at Trielaís mercy. Evil

Well he did note to Giuseppe that she was very attuned to a manís desires. sweat
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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Danjo3 on Fri 28 Nov 2008 - 2:49

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Danjo3 wrote:Not to mention that Hillshire was at Trielaís mercy. Evil
Well he did note to Giuseppe that she was very attuned to a manís desires. sweat

In other words, she knows how to get his motor running. Laughing

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by emperor on Fri 28 Nov 2008 - 11:13

The staff neurologist, Marianna, says it's comparable to Alzheimer's disease.

We must discuss this more... study

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Kiskaloo on Fri 28 Nov 2008 - 11:44

@Danjo3 wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Danjo3 wrote:Not to mention that Hillshire was at Trielaís mercy. Evil
Well he did note to Giuseppe that she was very attuned to a manís desires. sweat

In other words, she knows how to get his motor running. Laughing

Good thing she had her legs crossed when she was kissing him. Wink
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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Danjo3 on Fri 28 Nov 2008 - 12:29

@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Danjo3 wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Danjo3 wrote:Not to mention that Hillshire was at Trielaís mercy. Evil
Well he did note to Giuseppe that she was very attuned to a manís desires. sweat
In other words, she knows how to get his motor running. Laughing
Good thing she had her legs crossed when she was kissing him. Wink
This little back and forth is a perfect example of how quickly an innocent topic can spiral into the gutter. Razz

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by MikhailN on Tue 9 Jun 2009 - 3:31

@Danjo3 wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Danjo3 wrote:
@Kiskaloo wrote:
@Danjo3 wrote:Not to mention that Hillshire was at Trielaís mercy. Evil
Well he did note to Giuseppe that she was very attuned to a manís desires. sweat
In other words, she knows how to get his motor running. Laughing
Good thing she had her legs crossed when she was kissing him. Wink
This little back and forth is a perfect example of how quickly an innocent topic can spiral into the gutter. Razz

I agree. The worst part is that once the topic spirals into the gutter, it usually stays there.

You know, I noticed something. Jean is often portrayed as hell-bent for revenge, but I think it's hereditary. Early on Jose did mention that he had something against Padina. Of course that means nothing, after all he lost his family too. But the most telling part was in Chapter 57 where he and Jose raid a hideout. Even Sandro comments: "A vendetta has been handed to those two" and stays out of the whole thing.

Maybe Jean is a bad influence on his brother

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by West Nile on Tue 9 Jun 2009 - 8:12

Joze is mad cause he lost his family

Jean looks like the type that could careless about his parents but since his sister + his dear Sophia was killed he's hell bend to make them pay... besides Jean's brutaliy has been evedent since he was a teen, must be grandpa croce's fault

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by MikhailN on Tue 9 Jun 2009 - 8:15

@West Nile wrote:Joze is mad cause he lost his family

Jean looks like the type that could careless about his parents but since his sister + his dear Sophia was killed he's hell bend to make them pay... besides Jean's brutaliy has been evedent since he was a teen, must be grandpa croce's fault

Ooo so it's the grandpa who turned him into a badass. Interesting

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by West Nile on Tue 9 Jun 2009 - 8:18

chapter 66 grandpa is yelling at Jean and Jean is yelling back, that's where it all started i guess

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 9 Jun 2009 - 11:43

Jean was strongly influenced by his grandfather, who was a hero in WW2 (I assume for the Italian resistance movement and not the Italian Social Republic, which was part of the Axis).

Jean's father wanted him to go to Law School, but Jean wanted to join a military academy and then earn a commission as an officer (I assume in the Army). That was the argument we saw play out in Chapter 66. I'm going to guess Jean taking a commission in the Carabinieri was a compromise, since that is a military police force so it satisfied Jean's desire to be a soldier and his father's desire for him to know the law.

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by West Nile on Wed 10 Jun 2009 - 3:12

well that makes perfect sense, since grandpa croce would be eternally grouchy for losing the war Jean would be empathetic of it as well

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 14 Jul 2009 - 15:35

Ok, since weíve started to learn a good bit more about the girls and their handlers in recent chapters and episodes, I thought it might not be a bad time to revise their sections in the wiki. I also took the liberty of trimming them a bit, since in many cases they were more plot summaries than character summaries. Let me know what you think, please.




An agent of Section 2, Rico's handler and Jose's older brother. Also a former Carabinieri officer, Jeanís childhood was strongly influenced by his grandfather, a hero of the Italian resistance movement in World War 2. His father wished him to become a lawyer, however Jean wished to enroll in a military academy and then join the Army. His service with the Carabinieri (a military police force) may have been a compromise. Where his brother Jose shows affection and concern for Henrietta, Jean considers Rico a tool of vengeance for Sophia Durante, a fellow Carabinieri soldier and his fiancť who died with his family in the car bombing. This vengeance defines his being and he lives only to kill terrorists. He is a trusted advisor to Director Lorenzo, the chief of Special Operations, Section 2.

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by emperor on Thu 16 Jul 2009 - 0:00

Good entry!

cheers

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Ghostfriendly on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 18:35

@West Nile wrote:well that makes perfect sense, since grandpa croce would be eternally grouchy for losing the war Jean would be empathetic of it as well

"Surplus Italian WWII rifles for sale! Never fired, only dropped once!"

I don't like to think what Jean's reaction to that joke would be. Humour aside, for the 'rational' field head of section 1, he has the most violent driving emotions of any character. It shows what kind of business counter terroism is that someone like him fits in so well. If the present conflict drops to a milder level though, he may quickly find himself having to get a job in opera.

Someone mentioned that it seemed like Jean and Guiseppe had a family vendetta against Padinian. They've certainly passed their grievence on, as a vendetta, to Rico and 'Etta.
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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Professor Voodoo on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 19:00

@Ghostfriendly wrote: Someone mentioned that it seemed like Jean and Guiseppe had a family vendetta against Padinian. They've certainly passed their grievence on, as a vendetta, to Rico and 'Etta.

I'm not sure that's exactly true. Rico does what she needs to do in order to earn her keep (and her body). Henrietta does the job to please Giuse. Neither appears to have any specific personal agenda, or ambivalent feelings toward the Padania, and that's one of the central moral conflicts of the story...the girls have no choice but to serve. It seems they would both apply themselves to any task their handler assigned with equal zeal.

Jean's motivations are explored in greater depth in the chapters following #64 (not translated yet), and I get the feeling he's just kind of dragged his younger brother along for the ride.
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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 25 Apr 2010 - 19:16

@Professor Voodoo wrote:Jean's motivations are explored in greater depth in the chapters following #64 (not translated yet), and I get the feeling he's just kind of dragged his younger brother along for the ride.

From what I have made out, that appears to have been the case, at first.

However, Jose is now just as twisted by revenge at the thought of getting Dante as Jean is.

Jean kills for Sophia.

Jose kills for Enrica.

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Ghostfriendly on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 3:48

@Professor Voodoo wrote:
@Ghostfriendly wrote: Someone mentioned that it seemed like Jean and Guiseppe had a family vendetta against Padinian. They've certainly passed their grievence on, as a vendetta, to Rico and 'Etta.

I'm not sure that's exactly true. Rico does what she needs to do in order to earn her keep (and her body). Henrietta does the job to please Giuse. Neither appears to have any specific personal agenda, or ambivalent feelings toward the Padania, and that's one of the central moral conflicts of the story...the girls have no choice but to serve. It seems they would both apply themselves to any task their handler assigned with equal zeal.

Jean's motivations are explored in greater depth in the chapters following #64 (not translated yet), and I get the feeling he's just kind of dragged his younger brother along for the ride.

A vendetta doesn't have to imply that you personally hate someone, if your going to get them for what they did to a previous generation of your family; its more like duty. The Croces are the nearest thing 'Etta and Rico have to a family.

For Jean dragging his brother into the SWA, I guess that's what he was talking about to Enrica's ghost in vol 6 when he blamed himself for encouraging Giuseppe to replace her with Henrietta. Looks like Gieseppe fell into more of a depression after the bombing, and Jean had to drag him out of it by giving him a bit of a crutch.
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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 26 Apr 2010 - 23:26

Well if Enrica is a real ghost, hopefully she'll steer clear of my NoŽl. She's deathly afraid of them. Smile

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Professor Voodoo on Tue 27 Apr 2010 - 13:00

@Kiskaloo wrote:Well if Enrica is a real ghost, hopefully she'll steer clear of my NoŽl. She's deathly afraid of them. Smile

The girls' phobias are some of ther most interesting (and funny) parts of the expanded universe. Allison has reservations about big trucks...Marisa's afraid of nuns...Kara hates spiders, and I strongly suspect Henrietta would be scared out of her knickers by monster movies.
Any I've missed?

Of course, we're getting distracted. This is supposed to be Jean's thread, and I suspect he's someone all the girls would have a healthy fear of at one time or another.


Last edited by Professor Voodoo on Wed 26 May 2010 - 3:17; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by taraswizard on Sat 1 May 2010 - 2:48

After watching all series one more than once and reading up til like vol. 7 of the manga. I don't actually think Jean is indifferent to Rico. To be clear Jean is oftimes cruel and seemingly cool to Rico, but he cares about Rico, a fratello that's indifferent is Lauro. However, he's not the same personality as Guise, and one can presume his instances of cruelty might be fueled by his signal minded focus on revenge on Padania. This will ramble if I go on.

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by emperor on Wed 26 May 2010 - 2:18

Jean was the 1st Carabinieri Parachute Battalion '' Tuscania''

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by emperor on Fri 8 Apr 2011 - 5:04

Times to revive Jean's topic.

I have a question for you all.

What if I state that Jean and James Bond : Quantum of Solace starring by Daniel Craig are the man of revenge?


And will you take this idea to write in your fanfiction?

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 8 Apr 2011 - 5:08

I'm not quite sure what you mean, Emperor. Are you trying to say that Jean and Daniel Craig's James Bond should meet in a fanfiction story, and perhaps team up because they are both seeking revenge?

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by emperor on Fri 8 Apr 2011 - 6:07

Sorry for the unclear message.

I mean both Jean & Daniel Craig in that movie have the same characteristic as a man of revenge.

And yes,they should meet up in someone's fanfic. It would be an effective team/partner!

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Professor Voodoo on Fri 8 Apr 2011 - 17:14

It's an interesting comparison, they do have much in common but their differences stand out as well.

Bond is something of a loner who prefers to use his own contacts and resources to get a mission done (see Alfisti's Jethro) where Jean is a leader who employs the full strength available to him to reach his goals.

James is more reserved about his desire for revenge, Croce at times seems like he's drunkenly stumbling through a fog of his own hatred.

Biggest difference has to be women...Sophia practically had to pry her way into Jean's heart with a crowbar, and since her death he's shown no interest in another relationship. Bond on the other hand always makes time for the ladies.

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Awinnell on Fri 8 Apr 2011 - 18:34

@Professor Voodoo wrote:
Biggest difference has to be women...Sophia practically had to pry her way into Jean's heart with a crowbar, and since her death he's shown no interest in another relationship. Bond on the other hand always makes time for the ladies.

thats just sex,Bond only ever fell in love once and he married her,Teresa "Tracy" Bond , she was killed not long after the wedding,he was often shown to be a liitle rough with the ladies but could charm them despite that

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Guest on Wed 25 May 2016 - 4:55

Are there any characters you are aware of that are similar in personality to Jean Croce?

Yu Tosaki from Ajin comes to mind, but anyone else? † Puzzled

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Guest on Wed 1 Jun 2016 - 6:11

I've noticed that Nobuchika Ginoza from Psycho Pass also has some similar characteristics to Jean Croce.

-Difficult to talk to
-Unemotional
-Keeps his feelings hidden
-Professional while working
-Rigid and stern, but has a compassionate side
-Maintains his distance from others
-an overall complex character

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Alfisti on Wed 1 Jun 2016 - 6:48

Ashesofanotherlife wrote:I've noticed that Nobuchika Ginoza from Psycho Pass also has some similar characteristics to Jean Croce.

-Difficult to talk to
-Unemotional
-Keeps his feelings hidden
-Professional while working
-Rigid and stern, but has a compassionate side
-Maintains his distance from others
-an overall complex character
I would probably add that he seems very driven in the pursuit of his goals/to do what he believes to be the right thing. Perhaps not the good thing, or the nice thing, but the right thing (cue Granny Weatherwax quote).

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by San and Flo on Wed 1 Jun 2016 - 8:10

The resounding trope with him is Jerkass Facade

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Guest on Sun 3 Jul 2016 - 3:33

How much conditioning do you think Jean had Rico on? He always tells the other Handlers that they should "Recondition their cyborg" yet we never actually see Rico being conditioned in both the manga and the TV series.

Maybe at first he had her put on a lot, but after a while he could of reduced the dosage. Her personality is pretty emotional, much more so than the excessively conditioned cyborgs like Beatrice or Claes, who are both relatively flat and level individuals. She also doesn't seem to suffer with the memory loss the others do, including Henrietta, who was made at the same time she was.

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Re: Jean Croce

Post by Alfisti on Sun 3 Jul 2016 - 6:09

I dunno. I always used to think Jean kept her heavily conditioned, but someone here (and I can't remember who, sorry) posited that she was actually one of the more lightly conditioned, citing similar reasons, ie. that Rico displays her emotions quite openly, remembers some of her own past, etc... and these days I'm inclined to agree.

That said (and I don't think there's anything stated explicitly to support the theory mind), I've always tended to view the Gen 1 cyborgs as something of a mixed bag regards how they are constructed and their conditioning implemented. They were early days, prototypes if you will, so it's possibly that the SWA would try something with one girl, note the results, then integrate what they learn into how they handle the next. If Rico and 'Etta were built at the same time, perhaps they tried one thing with Rico and another with 'Etta? Considering what a blessing Rico seems to consider her "working body", it could be that they doctors were able to leverage that into a less "brute force" approach than might be needed on someone with a past like Henrietta's.

On the flipside, there's always the possibility that the physiology of one girl responds to the conditioning process differently to that of another... so I suspect that there has to be some tweaking subject to subject anyway, even for the "production" Gen 02 girls.

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