Victor Hilshire

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Victor Hilshire

Post by emperor on Wed 23 Apr 2008 - 3:28

Voiced by: Masashi Ebara (Japanese), Dameon Clarke (English) in Gunslinger Girl
Voiced by: Masaya Matsukaze in Gunslinger Girl: Il Teatrino

Real name Victor Hartmann; also spelled in some translations as Hillshire, Hilscher, or Hirscher. An agent of Section 2, Triela's handler and a former Europol detective, Hilshire prefers a hands-off approach to Triela and, like Giuseppe, he dislikes heavy use of conditioning. During his earlier days as a Europol detective, he was denied engaging a child-torturing group in the frontline, as commented by his superior being "too naÔve" and incapable of handling the pressure. True to his boss's description of his personality, he could be seen whimpering excessively over a live footage of the torturing session, and became mentally depressed. Soon after, he was approached by a concerned female coroner (who was responsible for the bodies of the child victims), a woman named Rachel who was tipped by her friend regarding the location of the torture group.

The pair then carried out an unofficial mission to raid the hideout, resulting in the death of Rachel and the rescue of the would-be Triela. After the ordeal, Hilshire received information concerning the child smuggling ring from Mario Bossi, a Mafia leader who experienced an attack of conscience. In exchange for the information, Hilshire allowed Mario to escape before Europol could arrest him. When Europol learned about Hilshire's part in Mario's escape, Hilshire was dismissed. Shortly afterwards, he was employed by the SWA in no small part due to his existing connection to Triela, who became one of the SWA's experimental subjects.

credit:wikipedia

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Nachtsider on Wed 23 Apr 2008 - 3:29

Reasonably accurate, yes.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Danjo3 on Thu 24 Apr 2008 - 4:59

Iím sure there will be more to add after vol.10 (hopefully nothing too drastic).

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by sasahara17 on Thu 24 Apr 2008 - 20:50

Perhaps we should mention he is one of the few members of the SWA to actually have a living blood relative make a (brief) appeareance?

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Wileama on Thu 24 Apr 2008 - 20:56

I don't know if a word bubble counts as an appearance...

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Danjo3 on Fri 25 Apr 2008 - 2:13

@Wileama wrote:I don't know if a word bubble counts as an appearance...
Sheís more then a word bubble. You actually see her (if only from the back). Oh yeah, you also see her cat.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Wileama on Fri 25 Apr 2008 - 11:50

You sir, are correct. I completely forgot about that.

\\tips hat

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Danjo3 on Sat 26 Apr 2008 - 2:30

Iím guessing the cats name is Herr Handschuhe (Mr. Mittens) and I think that he too deserves a Wiki mention. :dance:

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Nachtsider on Sat 26 Apr 2008 - 2:34

Mittens sounds like that kitty from Beatrix Potter's animal stories...

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by emperor on Mon 28 Apr 2008 - 0:23

Claes
2008-01-25, 02:16
Triela's little Christmas Party with Hilsher.

Ends with with him seeing another woman the morning after.

lol
Me in other forum (with other member there) try to analog-ing Triella-Hillscher relationship as 'Young papa whos trouble with his rebel teen daughter, and have to raise her by himself, after the death of his wife'

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Guest on Sun 4 May 2008 - 4:01

@emperor wrote:
Claes
2008-01-25, 02:16
Triela's little Christmas Party with Hilsher.

Ends with with him seeing another woman the morning after.

lol
Me in other forum (with other member there) try to analog-ing Triella-Hillscher relationship as 'Young papa whos trouble with his rebel teen daughter, and have to raise her by himself, after the death of his wife'

Judging from the TV-series, I'd say it's quite obvious that Hillshire and Triela are NOT like father and daughter. I wouldn't know about the anime though, GSG is not that easy to come by here in Holland :/

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Sakura on Sun 4 May 2008 - 4:14

I thought the TV series was the anime, unless you were referring to the manga instead. The quote from emperor is a quick summary of Chapter 51. XP

emperor-It's from the animesuki forum right? It looks very familiar.
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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 4 May 2008 - 4:17

Hillshire and Triela act pretty much the same in both the manga and anime, really.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Guest on Sun 4 May 2008 - 5:09

@Sakura wrote:I thought the TV series was the anime, unless you were referring to the manga instead. The quote from emperor is a quick summary of Chapter 51. XP

emperor-It's from the animesuki forum right? It looks very familiar.

That's what I meant. Sorry, I'm not really a die hard anime/manga fan, I just like GSG Razz

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by emperor on Tue 6 May 2008 - 0:41

@Sakura wrote:I thought the TV series was the anime, unless you were referring to the manga instead. The quote from emperor is a quick summary of Chapter 51. XP

emperor-It's from the animesuki forum right? It looks very familiar.

you're right,sakura.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Ggultra2764 on Fri 1 Aug 2008 - 2:36

Spoiler:
From what I've read in volume 10, it seemed Hilshire was forced into joining the Social Welfare Agency for fear of Triela's safety after he learned the agency's true reasons behind the cyborg modifications of the girls. Also, Mario helped him escape with Triela from the Mafia hideout after Rachelle died saving Triela's life.
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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by MadHatChemist on Sun 1 Mar 2009 - 1:48

I've always found his relationship with Triela to be the deepist, in large part due to their pre-cyborgization relationship (at least on his part). In a way it is like a farther-daugher relationship. Heck, Treila calls the doctor who dies saving her, her "mother" based on fragments of her dream/recell.

But it seems to go beyond that, especilly after evens in Vol. 10. Hillshire always seemed akward aroung Triela, which fits with his lack of sociability. But seeing and helping Triela created a connection for him that he didn't have with anyone else. The bond seems to be stronger between the two, almost like two war buddies that went through hell together.

I would also add that Hilshire is the only adult in the agency who isn't at some level a schmuck.
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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by emperor on Sun 1 Mar 2009 - 8:53

The bond seems to be stronger between the two, almost like two war buddies that went through hell together.

Great line!!


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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 1 Mar 2009 - 11:34

I think Hillshire carries a not-insignificant bit of guilt with him for his actions that led up to that night in Amsterdam and Triela is a physical reminder of it.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 1 Mar 2009 - 14:46

None of the Fatelloís Have the bond Hillshire and Triela do.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Triela on Sun 1 Mar 2009 - 15:02

@Danjo3 wrote:None of the Fatelloís Have the bond Hillshire and Triela do.

Very true.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by MikhailN on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 7:46

@Triela wrote:
@Danjo3 wrote:None of the Fatelloís Have the bond Hillshire and Triela do.

Very true.

I agree too, but is it fair to compare? After all, every one of their relationships are unique so we can say the same for all the others.

Somehow she's more mature than the other cyborgs (16 plus the 7 years counting the teddy bears) so we should expect something different from the semi-pedophilic relationships in the others

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Cryingvoid on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 8:05

I agree too, but is it fair to compare? After all, every one of their relationships are unique so we can say the same for all the others.

Somehow she's more mature than the other cyborgs (16 plus the 7 years counting the teddy bears) so we should expect something different from the semi-pedophilic relationships in the others
I guess, the main point here is that Hillshire has Triela as his very purpose (if not to say, the meaning of life) unlike other handlers, who, though with different goals and fates, still remain mere cyborg-handling SWA agents, neither related to their girls in past, nor living for their sake only, as Hillshire does.
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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 8:09

Semi-pedophilic? lolwut?

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by MikhailN on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 8:28

@Cryingvoid wrote:
I agree too, but is it fair to compare?
After all, every one of their relationships are unique so we can say
the same for all the others.

Somehow she's more mature than the
other cyborgs (16 plus the 7 years counting the teddy bears) so we
should expect something different from the semi-pedophilic
relationships in the others
I guess, the main point here is
that Hillshire has Triela as his very purpose (if not to say, the
meaning of life) unlike other handlers, who, though with different
goals and fates, still remain mere cyborg-handling SWA agents, neither
related to their girls in past, nor living for their sake only, as
Hillshire does.

Exactly. For the others the girls are means to an end while Triela's the end in itself

@Nachtsider wrote:Semi-pedophilic? lolwut?

Middle-aged man showering a small girl with affection? I think that qualifies Very Happy

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 8:43

There's a clear difference between affection and sexual desire - Hillshire cares and feels for Triela, but he doesn't want to bone her. So I don't think we can lump him under the pedophile category.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by MikhailN on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 8:47

I think I was misinterpreted. I was saying that the other relationships were semi-pedophilic, not Hilshire's

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Cryingvoid on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 8:56

I think I was misinterpreted. I was saying that the other relationships were semi-pedophilic, not Hilshire's
That's a surprising conclusion.
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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 8:58

Surprising, indeed...

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 9:36

The only handler whoís even come close to being a pedophile is Sandro. Iíve seen nothing of the sort in any of the others. While itís true Triela is getting a wee bit frisky, Hillshire just isnít that kind of guy.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Cryingvoid on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 9:42

The only handler whoís even come close to being a pedophile is Sandro.
Moreover, Sandro is probably the youngest among handlers, and Petra is one of the eldest among cyborgs and she is a mature high school girl originally, so there is nothing pedophilic in their relations either, in my opinion.
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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 9:44

He's still an adult and she's still a minor, though.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 9:49

@Nachtsider wrote:He's still an adult and she's still a minor, though.
Not to mention the fact that heís taking sexual advantage of a subordinate whoís under the influence of the conditioning drugs.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Cryingvoid on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 9:57

As for the moral, Sandro/Petra is a complex problem of the story. I guess, we'll learn author's position about that sooner or later.
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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by MikhailN on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 10:06

@Cryingvoid wrote:As for the moral, Sandro/Petra is a complex problem of the story. I guess, we'll learn author's position about that sooner or later.

There are a lot of complex problems throughout the story:

1. Humans as a means to an end (using other people to accomplish a mission or serve as emotional support)
2. Morality of warfare or use of violence to stop violence

If you go deeper there are others but these are the main ones.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Awinnell on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 11:02

In Italy she isn't a minor

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 11:03

I was just breaking it down to Sandroís sexual abuse. If you want to look at the big picture (and leave the fantasy world that is GSG), all of the girls are being abused in the worst possible way. This is the type of story thatís hard to enjoy if you think about it too much.

But most here know I write fan fic about it, so Iím as fucked up as YuÖ

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 11:36

I still remain...well, I'll say "amused" just to be polite...at the people who are absolutely convinced Sandro and Petra are in a sexual relationship when the manga implies nothing of the sort.

It's implied he kissed her at the end of Volume 9. That is it. Yes, she says she has a "special relationship" with Sandro, but that could mean he doesn't treat her as "a little kid" or "a kid sister".

Sandro is likely in his mid-20s and Petra is 16. They're the closest in age of any of the fratelli and as noted, Petra is neither a minor under Italian law nor would their relationship be against Italian law in their current position as superior and subordinate if they were having sex.

I think certain segments of the audience are seeing something that isn't there, but since I am not a psychoanalyst, I'll just leave it at that.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Totoum on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 11:54

Kiskaloo,I just wanted to say I agree with you all counts regarding Sando/petra.Generally when the topic arises I don't say anything because you express my views with better words than I could ever come up with.

So yeah I definatly am curious about where MikhailN sees a semi (or even quarter or a an eighth) of a pedophilic relationships in the fratellos.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 12:11

Thereís one fact you just canít get around Kisk, heís abusing his authority over a young, vulnerable girl who is under the influence of mind altering drugs. A young and vulnerable girl who has been programmed to do what ever he tells her to do. Most of the girls fall for their handlers, this we know. But do any of the other handlers take advantage of that? No.

You say that by Italian law sheís legal. But do you honestly believe that makes it right? Do you honestly believe that Petra, drugged as she is, can make a rational decision concerning the sexual advances of her handler - a man, who as I said, she cannot deny? Come on man, think about it.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 12:50

Do I think Sandro having sexual relations with Petra is proper, moral or ethical?

No.

But then, I also don't think he is having sexual relations with her. And I don't think he is forcing himself on her. He certainly didn't order her to stand still and let him kiss her in the Music Room. It strikes me that Petra is the one who seems to be driving this relationship more then Sandro.

As the "Voice of Reason", I would expect you of all people to give the SWA some credit to actually know the background of someone before they hire them and put them in a very sensitive role. I would think you would agree they would not hire a sexual predator and put him in close contract with a bunch of young girls who would do whatever he told them.

I mean Sandro himself says in the manga that he finds the First Generation girls creepy because they would do whatever he told them to. That they look at him with faces that say "command me" makes him uncomfortable.

The man was a professional espionage agent before he came to Section 2. Yes, he slept with women as a part of that mission, but that doesn't mean he is sleeping with Petra. It certainly doesn't mean that he must be sleeping with Petra. He obviously has no problem getting women into his bed, so it's not like Petra is the only willing piece of tail he can find. In fact, she's the worst piece of willing tail he can find, so why would he then partake of it?



Could Sandro have sex with Petra? Sure. I'm a realist. I know that many teenage girls have sex with men in their twenties. I expect those girls are just as "vulnerable" to manipulation by older men as Petra could be by Sandro.

I just don't see any upside to Sandro or Petrushka from them having such a relationship. Especially since it's so much easier - and safer - for him to find sexual gratification with someone else. I doubt Elizabetta had ever been sexually active, so I don't see Petra as needing to be in order to feel "complete". A knocked-up ballerina isn't in demand and I expect the Russian system is not much more lenient on such matters then the Soviet system was.



So let's turn this on it's ear.

Instead of Sandro being a voracious sexual predator chasing poor Petra like a wolf does a lamb, what if he is actually starting to develop real feelings towards her? What if he kissed her not because he wanted to feel her up while he did so or to take her to bed, but because of a legitimate emotional response?

We're all infatuated with Triela so we giggle with glee to see her develop feelings and emotional responses to Hillshire. I expect there are those who hope for a sexual relationship between them, but it's "okay" because it would be the deepest expression of true, pure love between two consenting adults who have effectively lived together for years - even if one looks 13 and is chronologically some two decades younger then her partner. Who also happens to be her supervisor and savior.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 13:21

@Kiskaloo wrote:Instead of Sandro being a voracious sexual predator chasing poor Petra like a wolf does a lamb, what if he is actually starting to develop real feelings towards her? What if he kissed her not because he wanted to feel her up while he did so or to take her to bed, but because of a legitimate emotional response?
I dunno, Kisk. No matter how hard I try, I can't picture Sandro feeling for her like that.

For the record, I still think Triela gave Hillshire a kiss on the cheek. Razz

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 13:27

@Nachtsider wrote:I dunno, Kisk. No matter how hard I try, I can't picture Sandro feeling for her like that.

Why?

People say he's a predator. Or a "gimp". Or a "sleaze".

But I have yet to see anyone articulate why they believe that.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 14:02

@Kiskaloo wrote:And I don't think he is forcing himself on her. He certainly didn't order her to stand still and let him kiss her in the Music Room. It strikes me that Petra is the one who seems to be driving this relationship more then Sandro.
Thatís the whole point Kisk, Sandro should have never have let it happen in the frist place. Heís the adult, just like the other handlers and should have stopped it.
@Kiskaloo wrote:I would think you would agree they would not hire a sexual predator and put him in close contract with a bunch of young girls who would do whatever he told them.
What are you talking about? Sandro is a sexual predator. Thatís his thing. His specialty. Itís what he does for a living. I think you need to go back and do a little review.

Alright, alright. I know youíre a Sandro fan Kisk and nothing me or anyone else can say will ever change that, and I guess I can accept that. I still consider you a rookie forum member, but when it comes to GSG knowledge, you have few equals. I bow to you my friend.

But I still think Sando is a despicable bastard.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 14:13

It's not so much me being a "Sandro fan", but it is clear we have diametrically and irreconcilable views on him. And I'm using the "royal we" here because I know you are not the only person who follows your view and I am not the only person who follows mine.

Therefore, I'm not going to comment on neither Sandro nor Petra anymore. Not out of hard feelings, just out of a sense that I've said all I can and have nothing of value to add.

To quote Token Black, "I'm out".

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Danjo3 on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 14:42

To quote Cartman: ďScrew you guys Iím going home.Ē

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 14:59

That works as well. Razz

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by MikhailN on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 15:41

@Totoum wrote:So yeah I definatly am curious about where MikhailN sees a semi (or even quarter or a an eighth) of a pedophilic relationships in the fratellos.

Me too (Just joking)

Anyway I think that was a wrong choice of word because I forgot that pedophile has sexual connotations. How about lolicon? Something that conveys the idea of a young girl chasing men way older than her. Add the work semi in front and that should do the trick

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 18:56

A lolicon is someone who's got an (unhealthy) interest in small girls. Same thing as a pedophile, you ask me.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 19:13

So what is the opposite of lolicon? In Kodomo no Jikan, for example, it's a female grade school girl who has a crush on her adult male teacher. And then there is Henrietta's crush on Giuse.

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Re: Victor Hilshire

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