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Re: Lifespan

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 13 Jun 2008 - 2:00

West Nile wrote:I think it was in episode 6 season 2 that they showed one of the girls being "programed", she was moving her fingers and stuff and had no skin at all.
Which girl?

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Re: Lifespan

Post by West Nile on Fri 13 Jun 2008 - 5:00

Nachtsider wrote:
West Nile wrote:I think it was in episode 6 season 2 that they showed one of the girls being "programed", she was moving her fingers and stuff and had no skin at all.
Which girl?

if i knew, i would have put a name, but since there was no skin... i can't tell

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 13 Jun 2008 - 5:31

No face shot?

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Re: Lifespan

Post by LoC978 on Fri 13 Jun 2008 - 8:15

nein. looks like a classic sci-fi thing again. skinless cyborg scene:

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Re: Lifespan

Post by KodokuRyuu on Fri 13 Jun 2008 - 21:18

Could have been someone random. By the way, anyone want me to reveal a spoiler from chapter 55? They tell how long it took to make Triela into a cyborg.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 13 Jun 2008 - 21:23

Go ahead.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by KodokuRyuu on Fri 13 Jun 2008 - 21:53

Warning: spoiler from chapter 55:
Spoiler:
They spent a year conditioning her. They may have turned her into a cyborg after that since her body was stable, but I don't remember right now.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 13 Jun 2008 - 21:57

Spoiler:
I'm more inclined to think that Triela, being the second earliest Agency girl, would have been conditioned in a pattern similar to Angie - after her reconstruction. Go by this line of reasoning, and you'll have Triela getting her drugs in small doses over a year-long post-roboticizing period.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by KodokuRyuu on Fri 13 Jun 2008 - 22:23

Spoiler:
That's assuming that's actually Ange in the other bed. The chapter doesn't say. Does it feel like we're whispering to you? 'Cause it does to me. Razz

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 13 Jun 2008 - 22:28

Spoiler:
I think it probably is Angie. Pretty sold that Triela is second, me - she's a total veteran, and we all know Rico and the others came after her. Well, perhaps with the exception of Bea, but yeah.

We aren't whispering. We're chatting on an encrypted transmission.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by KodokuRyuu on Fri 13 Jun 2008 - 23:15

Spoiler:
Ooh, encrypted transmission - I like. Yeah, now that I think about it, we know Jean and Jose picked out girls at the same time, and Claes came after Triela. We know Ange is first, and Beatrice is barely shown at all, though I think it's probably safe to say she was a later one. So yeah, she probably is second.
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Re: Lifespan

Post by Nachtsider on Fri 13 Jun 2008 - 23:36

Spoiler:
Actually, Rico was picked slightly earlier than Henrietta - she was apparently operational when work on Henrietta was completed, as she had a room of her own by then. And not only did Claes come after Triela, she came after Henrietta, too. Elsa came after Claes, while Bea, I suppose, could fit in anywhere after Triela, although I'm gunning for her arriving at the same time as Rico - Bea gives the impression of being more experienced than Henrietta.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Wileama on Sat 14 Jun 2008 - 1:19

Spoiler:
You know it's likely that the conditioning in this case was the treatment for the PTSD. I don't think it would take much of a stretch of imagination to see conditioning that only included orders to remain calm, or perhaps deleting the most harmful memories. I don't know it seemed to me that from the rough translation the SWA was still experimenting with it. Triela might have been the test bed for conditioning. Once it was worked out on Triela, and other patients it was applied to Angie. Another option is if that is Angie next to Triela they where conditioned together. What ever the case they may not have started to include assassin types of commands until close to, or even after the body was converted. I wouldn't be surprised if at first the agency didn't have plans on turning ever girl they experimented on with conditioning to turn into a cyborg. It would help keep up the Agencies appearance if they actually treated some PTSD suffers. Not until they discovered Triela's past, or realized she would adapt very well might they have considered making her a cyborg.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by KodokuRyuu on Sat 14 Jun 2008 - 12:17

Spoiler:
I just remembered that Triela said that she and Ange became cyborgs at about the same time (64.jpg - it's a little unclear in the English). That means that's definitely Angelica next to Triela. Wileama, I think they probably planed to turn her into a cyborg from the start since she was already missing a leg and such, but still a good theory.
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Re: Lifespan

Post by Tommygunner70 on Sat 14 Jun 2008 - 16:19

Spoiler:
If you say it like that, yeah, Triela is right to worry about her own well being, though she has a lot longer to live because she been on an extremely low dosage...

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Re: Lifespan

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 15 Jun 2008 - 16:18

Tommygunner70 wrote:
Spoiler:
If you say it like that, yeah, Triela is right to worry about her own well being, though she has a lot longer to live because she been on an extremely low dosage...
Spoiler:
She also has not had a garbage truck blow up in front of her!

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Tommygunner70 on Sun 15 Jun 2008 - 18:12

ElfenMagix wrote:
Spoiler:
She also has not had a garbage truck blow up in front of her!

Spoiler:
agreed

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Guest on Wed 18 Jun 2008 - 23:11

ElfenMagix wrote:
Tommygunner70 wrote:
Spoiler:
If you say it like that, yeah, Triela is right to worry about her own well being, though she has a lot longer to live because she been on an extremely low dosage...
Spoiler:
She also has not had a garbage truck blow up in front of her!

Spoiler:
Not to mention that Angelica always seemed a bit sickly, and had been having health/mental problems for awhile... Triela hasn't, at least not to anywhere near the same extent. I don't know, but I get the feeling that the author is gearing up to deal with that issue... hopefully with a positive resolution (aka Triela lives), although GSG isn't always all happy endings.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by West Nile on Wed 18 Jun 2008 - 23:48

mendoksou wrote:
ElfenMagix wrote:
Tommygunner70 wrote:
Spoiler:
If you say it like that, yeah, Triela is right to worry about her own well being, though she has a lot longer to live because she been on an extremely low dosage...
Spoiler:
She also has not had a garbage truck blow up in front of her!

Spoiler:
Not to mention that Angelica always seemed a bit sickly, and had been having health/mental problems for awhile... Triela hasn't, at least not to anywhere near the same extent. I don't know, but I get the feeling that the author is gearing up to deal with that issue... hopefully with a positive resolution (aka Triela lives), although GSG isn't always all happy endings.

Spoiler:
honestly speeking, there aren't alot of GSG episodes/chaps that do end with happy endings. they're usually either sad or touching...

Spoiler:
if you ask me, the next 1st gen on the chopping block is Rico. She's as stoned as Angie if not even more stoned. Next would be Henrietta.... why? because she has stage 3 diabetes :lollol:

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Nachtsider on Thu 19 Jun 2008 - 0:37

Spoiler:
Aw, c'mon. We all know Beatrice is the biggest stoner of them all.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Danjo3 on Thu 19 Jun 2008 - 1:15

West Nile wrote:
Spoiler:
if you ask me, the next 1st gen on the chopping block is Rico. She's as stoned as Angie if not even more stoned. Next would be Henrietta.... why? because she has stage 3 diabetes :lollol:
Even though Rico is the most “hopped up”, she’s still fairly new, so she probably has more time then Triela.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by GP on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 10:21

So, as many have said, the life span issue is do to the conditioning. I see it as mostly due to the drugs they give them and not really the damage/cyberparts they have.

I forget what page/chapter it was on but they talked about the limiting factor being the brain, and not the parts. They keep them conditioned/drugged up so they'll follow orders and not go AWOL. They don't HAVE to drug them, aside from the initial conditioning to give them a new life and make them know about weapons/tactics which we see is done at the start.

Now that Triela knows about her past and so on, she'll try not to get hurt and also not use the drug if she can help it.

The way I see it the drugs, since they mess with your memory, are the root cause, and nothing else. Angelica had her problems because she went through massive conditioning twice unlike the others. Completelly re-writing her twice didn't help.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 11:39

The conditioning drug has always been (by opinion) the limiting factor on the GsG lives.
But also the pressure to maintain a high grade level of performance has been an unseen one. Also, you will have to add constant battle damage repairs to the list.

The drug, at its minimum is to insure that the cybernetic parts work fine on the girl. This is why in V9, when Triela was chased and she had forgotten her gun and medication, the medication in her system started to wear off, causing her to get weak and unable to fight.

GP- right. But this is twice for Angie that we know of. She could have been rewritten several times and we just do not know it. Claes as we know was written 3 times.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by GP on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 11:46

I don't think it was the lack of the drug itself that limited trielas fighting ability at that part. I think it was more to do with her suffering from withdrawl itself and not lack of the drug. Though in a way those go hand in hand.

I don't remember the manga actually saying the drugs help the cyberparts move better, but maybe I missed it.

To me the drugs effect your memory and emotions, thus they let them "condition" specific personalities and memories (knowing about guns and how to fight). But yeah, all of this eats away at their brain.

Still, if Triela stops going at it alone and works with Hilshire more as real partners, she shouldn't have to depend on her parts and the ability to take damage to win. This will also cut the need for drugs as well.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 12:29

Withdrawl is based from the lack of the drug and its affects wearing off. So yes, they dogo hand in hand.

What you seek should be in the V1, when Henrietta is being operated on, and the doctor explains to Jose what's actually going on.

Conditioning is the initial programming, where the suject is brainwashed to follow specific orders. But in the GsG girls, this brainwashing and programming is complete. They may seem like little lovely girls you can hug and kiss like daughters and sisters, but they are programmed to kill and not have any remorse about it. Everything else is to accept that and to run as normally in society as possible. But this conditioning can be over ridden with just a few choice words onto the subject.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by GP on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 12:37

Either way, using as little as possible and not getting hurt should help them live longer. They say they don't know for sure anyways, and they're just guessing at this point in time.

Triela needs to live till the end of the manga!

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 12:58

In terms of the girls lifespans, if we take Rico's words in Season One of the anime literally, she's been at the SWA for two years ("two years ago I was given this new body"). We know she and Henrietta arrived after Angelica and Triela, but before Claes (since Rico was with Jean when they first met with Captain Raballo to pitch him becoming a handler). And yet, it looks like Rico and Henrietta joined only recently before Claes. Henrietta does not know proper range safety techniques and Raballo specifically refers to her as a "beginner".

The manga explicitly states Triela was rescued in Amsterdam six years prior to the current "year" of Volume 10 (which takes place almost 12 months after Volume 1). The manga also explicitly states that she spent some time in Amsterdam in a hospital under police protection before she was kidnapped by Victor and Mario. The manga also explicitly states that Triela underwent hypnotherapy for over a year before she was converted.

We also know from the manga that Angelica's spine was healed prior to her being fully augmented, since she could move (Marco's "we used magic to fix you") before the panels showing her being augmented were drawn. And it looks like the augmentation process was done over a period of time in stages, which makes sense for the prototype model.

I am now of the opinion (and have adopted it for my OC universe) that Angelica and Triela were likely only cyborgs for around four years at most by the time of the manga. It was not until Angelica broke up the fight that it was decided to make her an active agent and the manga could imply that Triela was the first active agent. So it's possible (frankly, probable) that up to two years passed between the time Triela was rescued in Amsterdam and she went on her first mission (which likely was six months or less after becoming a cyborg which happened before she was paired with Hillshire and they underwent training as a fratello).

Following the anime, Rico, Henrietta and Claes have been cyborgs for two years at the time of Volume 1 and are now at or approaching three years in Volume 11, and the other Series One girls (Elsa, Beatrice, et. al.) have likely been cyborgs between one and two years at the time of Volume One and would now be close or at two to three years in Volume 11.

Henrietta is starting to lose her memories at three years, which is inline with what Jean implied to Alessandro was a "normal" lifespan for a cyborg.

Why did Angelica live for four? Because she was not active all that much due to her implants not working well. Why is Triela only now starting to fall apart at four? Because she's so bad-assed she doesn't get hurt.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 13:15

Kiskaloo wrote:Following the anime, Rico, Henrietta and Claes have been cyborgs for two years at the time of Volume 1 and are now at or approaching three years in Volume 11, and the other Series One girls (Elsa, Beatrice, et. al.) have likely been cyborgs between one and two years at the time of Volume One and would now be close or at two to three years in Volume 11.
If I throw in a bone for the dog, the accepted/unaccepted video game Pia cyborg states in the video game that both her and Henrietta were friends in the begining, before they received their handlers. This would suggests that they were in the same medical ward when they were first assembled together. It is noted in the video that the "Fratello on the Run" was one of the first major missions the SWA underwent through as a total agency- as in the unification of all handlers/cyborgs for 1 mission objective. That objective: Capture and Kill the Ernesto/Pia team.

But Yu has made of countless of in the past, and he will continue to do them again.
Jean says that in C49, the lifespan of 5 - 7 years is that for a second generation cyborg, as per answering Allessandro's question. But in the past, I believe in the Pasta King anime/manga and in Epi 13 of Season 1, Jean says to Rico that a cyborg's life is short, but its how best one makes of if that makes the difference. He had stated a set number of years, I believe it to be 5 - 7 years back then for the first gens. In V7 when Petra was built, the medical directors were talking about a doubled like span for the 2nd gen cyborgs. That would make it 10 - 14 according to these figures. It would also seem that in a worst case scenero, one could have it as low as 5 but much higher than 7. With no reinforcement of the upper torso, as Dr. Gilliani stated a second gen cyborg can have a long life if she is not shot.

If the second gen have a doubledlife span of the first gens, and the second gens have a 5 - 7 year life span, then most of the first gen girls are at their life's end of 2.5 - 3.5 years. How ever, it seems that everyone in Section 2 seem to be working with the idea that the girls will live longer. Even Lorenzo's speaking of Angie's death seems to imply that if she had not died protecting Marco from the truckbomb, she would continue to live. Furthermore it seems that the girls function to be feild worthy. If Angie was in such a bad shape, why put her out in the where she can fail and put her handler in trouble?

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 13:33

If there really were eleven Series 1 cyborgs, as Rico says, then it is possible for Pia to have been there even with Silvia and Chiara being Series 1 girls. We just have to assume that the two girls shown in Page 9 of Chapter 18 are Beatrice and Silvia.

01: Angelica
02: Triela
03: Pia
04: Rico
05: Henrietta
06: Claes
07: Beatrice
08: Silvia
09: Chiara
10: “Liesel”
11: Elsa De Sica

Otherwise, Rico said ten including Elsa (and seriously, this is Rico - she doesn't sweat the details) which would preclude Pia.

In my OC universe, I haven't yet decided whether or not to have 10 or 11 so Pia has yet to formally be mentioned in any of my stories.

----------------------------

Alessandro asked Jean a direct question on how long Petrushka could be expected to live. Jean answered directly with a period of 5 to 7 years and noted that was about double what a Series 1 girl could be expected to live.

Also, remember Mariana - the neurologist - said all the Series 1 girls were deteriorating, not just Angelica. Dr. Belesario accepted this as the way things were.

Everything I have read tells me the Series 1 girls are not expected to make it much past their fourth year which tracks to what I think how long Angelica and Triela have been cyborgs. Angelica is now dead and Triela is sure she is dying.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 13:47

Though Pia and Ernesto were allegetely killed in the video game, it seems that they kept on coming back, which made this into a 4 part/4 cd epic.

With that in mind, I kept Pia in my series, because though she's one of the better killers out there (comapred to the others in the game), she has been rebuilt from what was left from the mission; massive destruction done to her body. I would not be surprised if Pia shows up in the Manga soon after this series is done or as it rolls along.

Yu leaves too many subtile hints, leaving us all asking for more. Damn tease that he is!

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Re: Lifespan

Post by GP on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 14:11

Good points, which just shows that if they don't get hurt much and need to get lots of treatment (which means even more dosses of drugs) they should live longer.

Now that Triela and Hillshire have come to more or less a mutual understanding and so on, she'll be even more careful and not get hurt. Also tone down the dose of drugs even more probably.

If they work together she doesn't have to go all zomg terminator to get the job done. As we've seen Hillshire isn't useless at all. Though he did get hit at the end, but still.

I guess that part with Angelica was so sad I'd hate to go through that again with my fav character Triela, etc.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by GP on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 14:15

Also they're just guessing really. They say they don't know for sure, but they figure 5 at the least for 2nd gen, 4 for the 1st might sound right.

But who knows if you take all the factors into account and so on, they could go longer. I don't know how far the manga wants to go really. Are they just going to bring in newer 2nd gen girls and slowly replace the 1st gens to keep it going? If that's the case it'll be pretty sad really.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 14:38

The key thing is as long as the brain is alive, the cyborg can function.

Now how much of the girl is still the orginal body remains to be seen. With Triela and Henrietta, it seems to be arms/legs/supporting structure while Angelica is more total. I would have to study upon that further to get the details.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Kiskaloo on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 16:03

ElfenMagix wrote:The key thing is as long as the brain is alive, the cyborg can function.

Yes and no. Angelica's brain didn't "collapse" until after the reconstructive surgery necessary after she absorbed that truck bomb, however the manga and anime both made it clear that her performance as a cyborg was sub-par far earlier (at least a year in the manga).

The manga might even imply that it was the conditioning (which was done after she had been converted and likely after she had been an active agent with Marco for a time) was what turned her into a mess.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by GP on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 18:34

Well that last bit with Marco shows that Triela is more human than the rest since at that arc she was having cramps etc

Also in vol10 with the flashbacks we see she's missing her left leg and one or both arms. I think compared to the others she's more human.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 19:17

Both Triela and Henrietta shows that their arms and legs were replaced because those were the parts on them that were destroyed when found. Henrietta also lost an eye, and Triela lostan eye to Pino in their last fight.

(IMHO) A more generalized cyborg build would require replacing both arms, legs, connection sockets (hips and shoulder sockets), and strengthening the spine. Then it goes from there what else would be required (improved eyes, hearing, reinforced skull & jaw, bullet/punture resistant and self sealing internal layer, etc...)

Though Angie was falling apart, she seemed to be on the road to some recovery and would have lasted longer if it were not for that truck bomb. Her brain died because partly from the drugs, and the impact from the truck bomb. If she did not shielded Marco, and if they would have ducked behind the dumpster that they were in front of at the time, Angie would be alive today. Even shielded by Angie, Marco recieved a concussion. What injury did Angie's brain recieved, which would be compounded by drugs? The way I see it- the med techs of the SWA let Angie die.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Nachtsider on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 19:23

Personally, I don't feel that one cyborg would be more extensively rebuilt than another, at least not at the outset - standardization ought to be the order of the day.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by GP on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 19:24

Well, either way, Triela was never hurt as much as we saw in her fight with Pino. As long as she doesn't get hurt again I think she can make it longer than 4 years.

Well, that's my hope anyways.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 19:34

GP, you need to look at her injuries when she fought Pino.
Though she was feild bandaged, once she was sent to the medical ward, all those damaged parts were replaced.
Both legs, an arm, an eye, and sections of her torso...

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Re: Lifespan

Post by GP on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 19:43

Yeah, I know, I'm just saying that's the most we've ever seen her get hurt. Sure in the past she's taken shots in the arm or a knife, but nothing that big this time.

What my point is that from now on if she just doesn't get hurt, which she did in the past because in the end she'd just rush in and not think about it, she should live longer.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Ghostfriendly on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 20:25

Since Rico never lost her memories from before conditioning, is it possible that the drug affects her differently? Of course, she might not complain about memory loss if she had it, but just keep happily living in the moment.

I think it's necessary for the girls to take drugs to use their implants, since human brains aren't accustomed to the stress and exertion of superhuman strength, as well as enhanced senses. The girls take time to get use to their implants, but we don't see any accidently crushing teacups to powder. I heard somewhere that most electronics that we've tried sticking in human bodies get clogged by various particles the body produces in response; so some drug would be needed to suppress that. The drugs would probably be harmful; on top of that if their effect was reduced over time the whole cyborg body could be subject to tissue rejection.
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Re: Lifespan

Post by GP on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 21:27

There are already materials that don't get rejected by the body and can stay in there till you die just fine. Transplants though often require drugs to supress your immune system till you get used to it or something along those lines.

If not taking the drug just means you can't work at 100% performance but still actually work and finish missions I'd take that over dying faster anyday.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by ElfenMagix on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 21:49

GP wrote:There are already materials that don't get rejected by the body and can stay in there till you die just fine. Transplants though often require drugs to supress your immune system till you get used to it or something along those lines.

If not taking the drug just means you can't work at 100% performance but still actually work and finish missions I'd take that over dying faster anyday.

Gold, Titanium, Gortex, Sorbathene, and a few others are the materials that will not be rejected or otherwise react with the body.

But medication used in transplant patients are for life; but most transpalnt patients do not live longer than 10 years. On occassion, some reach 20 years, and the longest recorded is 25. The immune system eventually gets used to the medication and attacks the transplanted organ. Some with power and money try to get a second transplant, but this will only last them 1/2 the time of the first transplant, with documents showing 5 years being a maximum.

Now, there seems to be promise in a new treatment in doing a double transplant of organ and
bone marrow to one who is in need of a new organ, but bone marrow transplants have problem within and of themselves, and do require other forms of anti-rejection medication for years too. But it not a life-sentence, as once the drugs are stopped, and the bone marrow is set, the patient can live drug free afterwards. In the few rare cases a double organ and bone marrow transplant has been done, it seems to have worked, but the jury is still out on this one. Initial studies on Gene Thearpy also seemed to until until suddenly patients started to die like flies.

Though I would agree with your stance of such drugs, one has to think why professional sports is rife with players taking such drugs to do better than what they think is 100%.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by GP on Mon 16 Feb 2009 - 22:19

Well if you have a match doner wise you don't need drugs. Like from a family member or so on. At least that's the way i've understood it.

But yeah, now they're trying to just grow you a new organ from your own cells so none of this would be a problem in the end.

And as to the drugs and the girls, if we're talking about just having them live longer then using as little of the drug as possible should help with that even if the cost is lower overall abilities.

I think in Trielas and Hillshires case that might be the way to go. The goal is to have her live longer. Then again this is a manga and fantasy even if we try to wrap real-world logic into it. maybe down the line the story will show they've come up with a newer drug or something that doesn't crap out the girls brains. Or it'll end before more kick the bucket. Only time will tell.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 17 Feb 2009 - 0:03

Ghostfriendly wrote:I think it's necessary for the girls to take drugs to use their implants, since human brains aren't accustomed to the stress and exertion of superhuman strength, as well as enhanced senses. The girls take time to get use to their implants, but we don't see any accidently crushing teacups to powder. I heard somewhere that most electronics that we've tried sticking in human bodies get clogged by various particles the body produces in response; so some drug would be needed to suppress that. The drugs would probably be harmful; on top of that if their effect was reduced over time the whole cyborg body could be subject to tissue rejection.
Best explanation I've heard thus far for why it's necessary for the girls to take their drugs, but end up being screwed anyway.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Ghostfriendly on Tue 17 Feb 2009 - 17:59

GP wrote:maybe down the line the story will show they've come up with a newer drug or something that doesn't crap out the girls brains. Or it'll end before more kick the bucket. Only time will tell.

Do people want the manga to end before or after the girl's prospective deaths?
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Re: Lifespan

Post by ElfenMagix on Tue 17 Feb 2009 - 18:12

It is not how they lived their lives that count, it is how they end it!
...well, maybe not. Of all the characters, Angie was the hardest to swallow her death. We can argue as to how she died, but thats not the point. Angie was recovering as a GsG and as a character, doing very well in missions and in growing up and accepting Marco for the jerk he was.

If it were to be Henrietta, to me it would not have been so hard to take. Pia's death (in the video game), she basically had it coming to her, though if she would have won, things would be different Evil Elsa was tragic to the end. Used and abused until she could not take it anymore.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by GP on Tue 17 Feb 2009 - 18:16

I don't think the manga will just keep going after the first gen all die by introducing more 2nd or even 3rd gen girls.   That's just the feeling I get.I really think it'll end before then with the whole terrorist plot over, in a sorta semi-open ending if you will.   

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 17 Feb 2009 - 18:32

Well we need to remember Elsa's back story was not created by Yu Aida, but by the animators. Yu used her in the manga as a throw-away character to allow us (the readers) to explore the fratello relationship through the other girls (and especially through Henrietta and Giuseppe). The animators may have made her tragic through the scripts they wrote for her, but really Elsa was an "OC" for the animators in that sense.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Nachtsider on Tue 17 Feb 2009 - 19:35

Fleshing out Elsa was still a stroke of genius, though. I loved it.

Are you absolutely sure Yu had no hand whatsoever in doing this? He might have looked back on his throwaway character and retroactively decided to give her more of a background.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Kiskaloo on Tue 17 Feb 2009 - 20:37

Nachtsider wrote:Fleshing out Elsa was still a stroke of genius, though. I loved it.

Are you absolutely sure Yu had no hand whatsoever in doing this? He might have looked back on his throwaway character and retroactively decided to give her more of a background.

Yu Aida did write the screenplays for -Il Teatrino- which no doubt helps explain why they track closer to the manga.

For the first anime series, however, he was just listed with "Original Manga by" credits, which means I expect they just offered him a licensing fee for the characters and he didn't have any input into the scripts or screenplays. The adherence to the manga was much looser in the first series and then there were "original stories" completely separate from the manga like Episodes 9 and 12.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by ElfenMagix on Tue 17 Feb 2009 - 20:40

I'm sure he had to have a hand in it because he had to approve everything before it went into production.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Guest on Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 7:37

Reading the manga and this thread, I can't help but think about the apparent discrepancy about Gen I and Gen II discrepancy.

Reading between the lines, as in other posts, it seems Gen I last around 5 years.

The doctors said Gen II should last about twice as long, that makes it about ten years. But, Jean said they last 5-7 years.

I think a possible explanation is the difference in ruggedness. Sure, Gen II can potentially last 10 years. However, Gen II was not made to be as rugged as Gen I (that is, Gen I can take strenous levels of hardware punishment without the need for repairs). So, Gen II can last long provided that they are not subjected to severe hardware punishment. That is, Gen II's are not sent to Gen I type missions, which is unlikely to happen. Hence, they end us with only a bit longer lifespan as Gen I.

So, IMO, the doctors when talking about 2X lifetime did not factor in the combat stress/fatigue. Jean when talking about 1.25X lifetime factored in the combat stress/fatigue (possibly with recalculation from doctors/repairs n maintenance personnel).
Of course, these is but a hypothesis and is subject to review.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 11:43

The Generation I girls appear to be, as one of our members noted, "shock troops". They work best when they have the element of surprise and they can overwhelm their opponents with speed and firepower. They do not seem to be able to "think on their feet" very well, depending on their handlers to give them instructions.

While only a sample set of "one", Petrushka appears to not be used in this role. Part of it could be her design. Part of it could be that Sandro's background is intelligence and espionage while the Gen I handlers all have police and military backgrounds.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by GP on Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 12:14

Anyone else find it interesting how they bring in this new less abtrusive method to fixing the girls? The new stuff we saw use on Henrietta etc.

Wasn't it also said that this new conditioning is less dangures to their minds and so on? Might be kinda late in the game but I'm fine with calling plot hax later on and having them somehow live longer than the 5 years or so everyone expects them to.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Nachtsider on Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 20:44

I don't think this new development is unrealistic at all. Improvements to existing technology can and do happen over time.

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Re: Lifespan

Post by ElfenMagix on Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 20:57

It took oer 50 years for VW to change its Beetle Evil

1938


1970


2005


(if the pics dont work, here's their links:
1938: http://www.seriouswheels.com/1930-1939/1938-VW-Beetle-Cabriolet-1280x960.htm
1970: http://www.edmunds.com/media/advice/specialreports/instant.car.classics/70.vw.beetle.500.jpg
2005: http://www.pictures-of-cars.com/VW-Beetle.jpg )

But... we're not talking about bugs here, now are we Evil

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Re: Lifespan

Post by Kiskaloo on Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 21:04

And yet they still haven't changed the 911...


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Re: Lifespan

Post by boomer_gonz on Mon 27 Apr 2009 - 1:14

Nachtsider wrote:I don't think this new development is unrealistic at all. Improvements to existing technology can and do happen over time.

This I concur with. After all, Angelica's cousin(I think) has a prosthetic leg that looks like a primitive prototype compared to what is running inside the girls. Hell, the US Military itself has made a habit of publicly declaring that they have technology that the public won't see for another 5, 10, or more years.

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