A Unique Katana Style

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A Unique Katana Style

Post by Guest on Sun 13 Jul 2008 - 12:11

There is, apparantly, a style of katana fighting wherein the blade is held upside down, an inversion of the normal way of holding a sword. It is, apparantly, a real style, though it's difficult to use effectively. I would appreciate any information on using a sword like this. (Someone did say it's good for close in fighting.) Here's the movie that showed me this style.

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Re: A Unique Katana Style

Post by emperor on Sun 13 Jul 2008 - 17:46

This could be a ninja sword fighting style.

Let Tommygunner answer this because he is the Katana lover!

:face:

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Re: A Unique Katana Style

Post by tsundere9kagami2 on Mon 14 Jul 2008 - 3:13

so by upside down do you mean a reverse hold
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Re: A Unique Katana Style

Post by Sakura on Mon 14 Jul 2008 - 6:08

Sort of reminds me of Zatoichi since he uses a cane sword.

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Re: A Unique Katana Style

Post by tsundere9kagami2 on Mon 14 Jul 2008 - 11:50

Using a katana in a reverse hold to attack can be a difficult task. The reverse hold is usually for defense in knives and midsize range swords and tonfa. A sword wielded in reverse hold will swing like pendulum adding power and inertia to bringing the blades tip outward as it is swung. Some reasons one would use the sword in such a way would be for the leverage in order to swing faster also the tension from tendons in the arm ad power. Some other reason could be that it conceals the blade, and attacks take an opponent by surprise. Another reason for using the hold is that a horizontal slash from the hold will tend to land hits in the lower region of the body a normal swordsman will tend to keep his sword up which protects the upper range of the body leaving the lower range vulnerable to the reverse holding swordsman attacks.
A sword wielded in the reverse tends to act more like a scythe than a sword and takes advantage of a swords main usage to slash and cut. If the reverse hold is used for stabbing on a back swing the stabs power is raised by the wide circular motion which gives the blade more time to speed up and stab with more power. When a knife is held in the reveres hold it is usually because someone wants to stab some sonofamother who stole their car, the reason being is that the weighted object (knife) along with the hand act like a pendulum and the arm is the suspension cable dramatically increasing the speed and power of the hit.
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Re: A Unique Katana Style

Post by Tommygunner70 on Mon 14 Jul 2008 - 15:18

emperor wrote:This could be a ninja sword fighting style.

Let Tommygunner answer this because he is the Katana lover!

:face:

I am yes, though I am not very experience yet. And that is to say, not as experienced as my girlfriend.

tsundere9kagami2 wrote:so by upside down do you mean a reverse hold

The term you're looking for is "Back handed"
the normal hold, is with the blade closest toward the Thumb. with the blade closest to the pink is called "Back handed wielding."

tsundere9kagami2 wrote:Using a katana in a reverse hold to attack can be a difficult task. The reverse hold is usually for defense in knives and midsize range swords and tonfa. A sword wielded in reverse hold will swing like pendulum adding power and inertia to bringing the blades tip outward as it is swung.

each and every word is truth.

tsundere9kagami2 wrote:Some reasons one would use the sword in such a way would be for the leverage in order to swing faster also the tension from tendons in the arm ad power.

Truth again, but there is another usage in wielding back handed.

Wielding a sword back handed makes for a strong defense.
when I am dual wielding swords, like say... a Wakizashi, I'd always wield one back handed. that one its main purpose is defense, while the other is focused on attacks.

Mind you I am still a Novice at that, but when done with someone well trained in that, they would be close to unbeatable.


Having said that though, fights as demonstrated in that little German video, is only good for trying each other out, and for training purposes.

in a serious fight to the death for survival however, will pretty much end with in near seconds.

Glorious sword fights like that dual, or how you see fighting in other movies, are pretty much fiction. If you have seen the full movie, you will see this as play/plot fighting. at the end of that same movie, you will see that John Preston will finish off that black dude in a matter of 5 seconds after the first couple of swings have been done. and that is Serious fighting.

Though I must add that the way he cut the black guys face off was pretty much fiction again....

damn HollyWood.
tsundere9kagami2 wrote:Some other reason could be that it conceals the blade, and attacks take an opponent by surprise.

Holding the blade behind your body like that is only really good for presenting yourself as an easy target.

When just training with wooden katana's I often present my self as an easy target by purposely lowering my sword so that the right side of my body is less defend, and often, those of lesser experiance will try to exploit that, if it wasn't for me planning on the fact that they would do that.

therefore the end result is that I know how to quickly block their attack while delivering a fatal blow in one clean move.


tsundere9kagami2 wrote:Another reason for using the hold is that a horizontal slash from the hold will tend to land hits in the lower region of the body a normal swordsman will tend to keep his sword up which protects the upper range of the body leaving the lower range vulnerable to the reverse holding swordsman attacks.

Close, but not quite.

with the normal hold, you can put more range into you're attack. wielding back handed actualy reduces the total range you got. seeing as you cant bend your hand up.

try it your self. stick your arm out, and point your thumb up as well while the rest of your hand stays like a fist. Imagine that you're thumb sticking up is a blade.

now try to point you're Thumb/Blade toward your shoulder...


You cant tilt it that way much right? now imagine that you were useing a back handed hold on your sword, I guess you can allready imagine that you wont be able to point it away from you with out turning you're thumb toward the center of you're body and bend you're elbow a bit to have the sword stick out ahead of you.

also, if you have it wielded normally, you can make longer slicing motions which will make you're attack stronger because of the shock load on impact.

the only way to affectively counter that is to make a slicing motion toward you're opponents blade so that you hate it in the same fashion as the enemy's sword was meant to hit you. or to use a back handed fashion, which doesn't need any movement or what so ever to have the same amount of strength needed to block that attack. its is mostly do to the fact that you're muscles to move your thumb toward your shoulders are more powerful the the once that move you're wrist down.


tsundere9kagami2 wrote:When a knife is held in the reveres hold it is usually because someone wants to stab some sonofamother who stole their car, the reason being is that the weighted object (knife) along with the hand act like a pendulum and the arm is the suspension cable dramatically increasing the speed and power of the hit.

Yes, same thing applies with swords, again, the down side is range with wielding it back handed. You got a lot of strength, but you sacrifice range for it in the trade off.

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Re: A Unique Katana Style

Post by tsundere9kagami2 on Mon 14 Jul 2008 - 17:13

Oh so there is actually a name for the hold i couldn't think of it so i just made some shit up.
The other stuff is based on fact tho all simple physics.
I tested this technique in a fight against my bro once its just a pain in the ass to hold a full size sword that way for a long time and it left my head and left side horribly exposed blocking in the position messes up your wrist and can fail easily also the the full sized katana in that hold was slow and hard to maneuver the stabbing was cool tho. in another test with a steel tonfa the the technique worked better blocking strength as as powerful as it should be and since a tonfa is a midsize weapon it was much more maneuverable
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Re: A Unique Katana Style

Post by Tommygunner70 on Mon 14 Jul 2008 - 21:02

Well it isn't something that you can just do like that, believe me Tsundere. It will be a while before anyone can do it properly.

Heck, I am only scraping the surface of that technique. its a lot of getting used to, and practice practice and again practice.

Think of it as you trying to learn juggling.
you're totally crap at it.

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Re: A Unique Katana Style

Post by Guest on Mon 14 Jul 2008 - 21:58

Thanks for the information! Yes, I know that real swordfights end quickly, and I know how the movie ended. I simply didn't want to post a clip that would spoil anything for someone who wanted to see the whole thing. Anyway I appreciate the feedback.

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Re: A Unique Katana Style

Post by Tommygunner70 on Mon 14 Jul 2008 - 23:05

J the Drafter wrote:Thanks for the information! Yes, I know that real swordfights end quickly, and I know how the movie ended. I simply didn't want to post a clip that would spoil anything for someone who wanted to see the whole thing. Anyway I appreciate the feedback.

You are welcome.

I never back down from sharing my wisdom and knowledge when the opportunity arises Smile

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